Where exactly is it?

Many if not all flat earth believers claim to be free thinkers basing their beliefs on what they have worked out for themselves combined with new information they receive which they then use to modify and adjust their beliefs. I’ve often asked the question where this information comes from, what is it’s source. Never have I received a satisfactory reply, all that’s ever been offered is ‘it’s out there’, yes but exactly out where?

If we look at the world of science across all the disciplines the output is truly enormous yet none of it is flat earth based. If we take just one area astronomy, none of its output would agree with any flat earth claim, if anything the world of astronomy is one branch of science where both 100% of its findings and output is opposed to everything a flat earther would believe. The question here is if a flat earther wants to find out about the cosmos, from a flat earth perspective where do they get their information from? They obviously can’t use any mainstream sources as none of what they would find would fit their own beliefs, how therefore do they form their beliefs with no information?

It was said by a senior member of this forum that there were such a thing as flat earth astronomers. I’ve searched the Internet, as I assumed they would have a web presence, and to date have drawn a blank. No where can I find any information relating to flat earth astronomy. Is such a notion therefore a non sequitur? If so how can any flat earther comment on anything related to the cosmos? In this situation the only resource they have are themselves and other flat earthers. The fact that none of them have the resources to probe the cosmos other than the most simple optics, how can anything they come up with be anymore than speculation?

When is comes to astronomy how can flat earthers have any opinion on a subject when they have no sources of information on which they can reliably base anything when 100% of all available scientific information Is counter to what they believe?

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

Youtube

Quote

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

Youtube

We existed before YouTube.

This, mainly:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/

Pretty sure this was the start of all the modern flat earth ideas.  The close sun doing circles between the tropics, the ice wall, the magic “laws of perspective”, etc, etc.

Quote from: Code-Beta1234 on July 18, 2020, 03:35:12 AM

Quote

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

Youtube

We existed before YouTube.

Books written by quacks

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 18, 2020, 07:17:29 AM

Quote from: Code-Beta1234 on July 18, 2020, 03:35:12 AM

Quote

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

Youtube

We existed before YouTube.

Books written by quacks

The basis of the "flat Earth Theory" for the original society is undoubtedly Samuel Birley Rowbotham's "Earth is not a Globe", commonly referred to as "ENaG".

A link can be found in this Society's library or at Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe by Parallax (Samuel Birley Rowbotham) [1881].

Maybe we need a thread on the errors in ENAG because Rowbotham essentially knew nothing about the Southern Hemisphere.
As a result the most common FE model has Antarctica as a forbidden ring continent with no single South Pole!

This is total bunkum but most flat Earthers simply refuse the face these facts!

Quote

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

Youtube

Youtube!.....now that’s hardly a well of scientific knowledge is it. I suppose I should have said verifiable.

Quote from: Code-Beta1234 on July 18, 2020, 03:35:12 AM

Quote

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

Youtube

We existed before YouTube.

You did indeed. The question still remains, what is the source of flat earth centred information?

If I want to find out about almost any aspect of physics I can do a simple search that will give some of the most up to date research. This is not available for flat earth believers for as far as I can see there is no recognised group doing what could be termed flat earth science.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 18, 2020, 07:17:29 AM

Quote from: Code-Beta1234 on July 18, 2020, 03:35:12 AM

Quote

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

Youtube

We existed before YouTube.

You did indeed. The question still remains, what is the source of flat earth centred information?

If I want to find out about almost any aspect of physics I can do a simple search that will give some of the most up to date research. This is not available for flat earth believers for as far as I can see there is no recognised group doing what could be termed flat earth science.

From an earlier post in this thread:
The basis of the "flat Earth Theory" for the original society is undoubtedly Samuel Birley Rowbotham's "Earth is not a Globe", commonly referred to as "ENaG".

A link can be found in this Society's library or at Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe by Parallax (Samuel Birley Rowbotham) [1881].

Maybe we need a thread on the errors in ENAG because Rowbotham essentially knew nothing about the Southern Hemisphere.
As a result the most common FE model has Antarctica as a forbidden ring continent with no single South Pole!

This is total bunkum but most flat Earthers simply refuse the face these facts!

---

Lots of issues are raised by this including:

• When we look south at night we see a set of stars, including the very bright Southern Cross and Centauri, that gradually rotate around the ONE South Celestial Pole.
  This is exactly analagous to the star rotation about Polaris when looking north in the Northern Hemisphere.
  
  Few flat Earthers take this seriously and Wise, for example, says we are lying!
  
  
• It is trivially easy to show that E-W distances on the "Ice-Wall" map are grossly exaggerated but nobody seems to care!
  
  
• Non-stop airline flights Johannesburg to/from Perth, Johannesburg to/from Sydney and Sydney to/from Santiago, Chile) would be completely impossible in the times given, yet these routes are flown regularly!
  
  Flat Earthers "explain these away" in various quite unsatisfactory ways.
  
  
• The South Pole gets just over six-months of daylight, just as the North Pole does but the movement of the FE Sun makes this impossible without what seems like magic!

And I could go on.

These points are often raised but to flat Earthers seems to care of have reasonable answers!

In his book ENaG, SBR makes various bold claims about 'it has been proven that' or 'it has been shown that' when referring to his belief that the Earth is flat but without once explaining how.

His 'experiments' are flawed from the beginning because all of them are based on his incorrect belief and so the results of his experiments are doomed from the start.

Flat Earth 'theory' is actually just a belief system which is shared by (what is in relative terms) a small majority. Ancient belief that the Earth is flat was based on the available evidence at the time.  In other words purely what you could see directly. Even then the idea really didn't gain much popularity and even the ancient Greeks recognised that there was actually a lot more evidence that supported the view that the Earth is actually a globe.

Nowadays we have science and technology that has been able to measure the exact shape of the Earth very precisely. So modern flat Earth belief is now more of a conspiracy theory than anything else. It maintains its followers who can now connect with each other much more easily thanks to the Internet. Those who follow the belief for their own reasons will continue to do so regardless of what evidence to the contrary is presented to them.

Also note that he relies upon completely incorrect assumptions about physics, some of which are extremely easy to disprove. For example, he claims that If you were to throw an object upwards at an angle, it would initially move up in a diagonal path until it reaches the apex, after which it falls straight down to the ground. On object easily refuted by plenty of sports, or by just throwing something upwards in a moving train or bus.

He also uses circular reasoning, using how the Earth's curvature obstructs the bottom of distant objects, along with his false assumption that Earth is flat, to try to prove that perspective causes the bottom of distant objects to be magically an inexplicably hidden, and thus claim it is not the curvature of Earth doing it.

 For example, he claims that If you were to throw an object upwards at an angle, it would initially move up in a diagonal path until it reaches the apex, after which it falls straight down to the ground.

How many times have you typed that same sentence over the past five years?

How many times have you typed that same sentence over the past five years?

And your point is...?   How many times has Wise typed 'Angry globalists' over the last five years?  What relevance does the number of times something has been typed have on whether it is correct or not?

Evasion aside what we conclude is that there are no actual Flat Earth Scientists, that's why people like WIse and the like have to pick up that particular baton. The fact that they are no more a scientist than your average Joe appears to matter little to them, as its all in the name.

The only resource flat earthers actually have other than what they make up themselves is...... mainstream science which they selectively cherry-pick from, ignoring the 99% and focusing only on that 1% that they then proceed to distort to make it fit their own beliefs.

Ultimately Flat EarthBelief has no supporting science, as after all how can it?

I find it strange that we have flat Earth 'Debate' and 'Discussion' forums.  I didn't think there was anything to debate of discuss as far as flat Earth believers are concerned.  To them the Earth is flat and that's all there is to it. All evidence that challenges that belief is simply a conspiracy against them.

What do they want or feel the need to debate or discuss?  The purpose of a debate or a discussion is to try and reach a consensus or conclusion.  To them that has already been reached.

I find it strange that we have flat Earth 'Debate' and 'Discussion' forums.  I didn't think there was anything to debate of discuss as far as flat Earth believers are concerned.  To them the Earth is flat and that's all there is to it. All evidence that challenges that belief is simply a conspiracy against them.

What do they want or feel the need to debate or discuss?  The purpose of a debate or a discussion is to try and reach a consensus or conclusion.  To them that has already been reached.

Well the OTHER board makes it quite clear their reason for existence is to get on Goggle search and spread the gospel to new people.

So as long as their arguments SOUND good that's all that matters, which is why they are so harsh with anyone who rebuts their claims in an intelligent way. 

So it's a propaganda mission.

I don't see much science going on, just the occasional rehash of old theories and reposting stuff other people wrote.

I'm not sure what this boards purpose is.  A place to discuss things?  If you look at the True Believers section there is virtually no discussion going on there, just people separately posting their stuff alone.

Brother James is on sabbatical, I am sure his upcoming work will be most illuminating.

Brother James is on sabbatical, I am sure his upcoming work will be most illuminating.

It would be great to have you, dogplatter and theengineer back here on a regular basis.

Then, this forum can become again what it once was, some eight years ago.

Brother James is on sabbatical, I am sure his upcoming work will be most illuminating.

Would you have any information on the nature Of his work and the protocols he is employing. Will he be publishing a paper?

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on July 26, 2020, 06:30:10 PM

Brother James is on sabbatical, I am sure his upcoming work will be most illuminating.

It would be great to have you, dogplatter and theengineer back here on a regular basis.

Then, this forum can become again what it once was, some eight years ago.

Regardless of who is or isn’t  here does not change the facts of the matter that there are no flat earth scientists and no Verifiable flat earth science being done.

Simple observations prove the earth is a sphere, simple observations that flat earth believers choose to misinterpret. Night/day, setting sun, southern constellations being different from northern ones, orientation of the moon viewed in the northern and southern sky. The list goes on.

Observations by every professional astronomer prove beyond doubt that all the views of a flat earthe believer are wrong. While professional astronomers have the means to study the cosmos, flat earth believers have nothing more than their own eyes or simple optics. Just as there are no flat earth scientists, there are no flat earth astronomers. Any comment in regard to the cosmos made by a flat earther that contradicts accepted knowledge is no more than idle speculation.

If you look at your own posting history all the scientific papers you provide links to are all done by main stream scientist. The irony being none of them would agree with any of your beliefs.

Take one of the main areas you post about, the sub-atomic world. That’s an area that you can have no real opinion on as it’s so far  beyond your capacity to study or interact with. All that is available for you is to misinterpret those papers you cherry pick, and deliberately ignore information that contradicts your ‘opinions’

For example, the existence or not as is the case of subquarks. It is clearly stated on both the Websites of Fermilab and CERN that the smallest know subatomic particle is the quark, yet you maintain sub-quarks exist.

The best you or any other flat earth believers can have are opinions based on belief and not on science. Basing your arguments on pure belief would be much more honest that basing them on distorted and misrepresented science.

Many if not all flat earth believers claim to be free thinkers basing their beliefs on what they have worked out for themselves combined with new information they receive which they then use to modify and adjust their beliefs. I’ve often asked the question where this information comes from, what is it’s source. Never have I received a satisfactory reply, all that’s ever been offered is ‘it’s out there’, yes but exactly out where?

If we look at the world of science across all the disciplines the output is truly enormous yet none of it is flat earth based. If we take just one area astronomy, none of its output would agree with any flat earth claim, if anything the world of astronomy is one branch of science where both 100% of its findings and output is opposed to everything a flat earther would believe. The question here is if a flat earther wants to find out about the cosmos, from a flat earth perspective where do they get their information from? They obviously can’t use any mainstream sources as none of what they would find would fit their own beliefs, how therefore do they form their beliefs with no information?

It was said by a senior member of this forum that there were such a thing as flat earth astronomers. I’ve searched the Internet, as I assumed they would have a web presence, and to date have drawn a blank. No where can I find any information relating to flat earth astronomy. Is such a notion therefore a non sequitur? If so how can any flat earther comment on anything related to the cosmos? In this situation the only resource they have are themselves and other flat earthers. The fact that none of them have the resources to probe the cosmos other than the most simple optics, how can anything they come up with be anymore than speculation?

When is comes to astronomy how can flat earthers have any opinion on a subject when they have no sources of information on which they can reliably base anything when 100% of all available scientific information Is counter to what they believe?

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

The question is what exactly Flat Earthers are doing, or better to say whom they benefit or to whom is it (flat earth controlled opposition) a benefit?

And here is the answer to our question : Flat Earth is a psyop :

Quote from: Timeisup on July 18, 2020, 02:13:15 AM

Many if not all flat earth believers claim to be free thinkers basing their beliefs on what they have worked out for themselves combined with new information they receive which they then use to modify and adjust their beliefs. I’ve often asked the question where this information comes from, what is it’s source. Never have I received a satisfactory reply, all that’s ever been offered is ‘it’s out there’, yes but exactly out where?

If we look at the world of science across all the disciplines the output is truly enormous yet none of it is flat earth based. If we take just one area astronomy, none of its output would agree with any flat earth claim, if anything the world of astronomy is one branch of science where both 100% of its findings and output is opposed to everything a flat earther would believe. The question here is if a flat earther wants to find out about the cosmos, from a flat earth perspective where do they get their information from? They obviously can’t use any mainstream sources as none of what they would find would fit their own beliefs, how therefore do they form their beliefs with no information?

It was said by a senior member of this forum that there were such a thing as flat earth astronomers. I’ve searched the Internet, as I assumed they would have a web presence, and to date have drawn a blank. No where can I find any information relating to flat earth astronomy. Is such a notion therefore a non sequitur? If so how can any flat earther comment on anything related to the cosmos? In this situation the only resource they have are themselves and other flat earthers. The fact that none of them have the resources to probe the cosmos other than the most simple optics, how can anything they come up with be anymore than speculation?

When is comes to astronomy how can flat earthers have any opinion on a subject when they have no sources of information on which they can reliably base anything when 100% of all available scientific information Is counter to what they believe?

The question is where exactly do flat earthers get their information from?

The question is what exactly Flat Earthers are doing, or better to say whom they benefit or to whom is it (flat earth controlled opposition) a benefit?

And here is the answer to our question : Flat Earth is a psyop :

I suppose you would have t say that.

What I would say is opposition to what?

Scientific opposition such as anti-vaccination groups has not exactly been helpful, especially with the COVID situation running riot, especially in the USA with its very anti-science bleach injecting scientific advice ignoring President. I would say flat earth belief and all other conspiracy motivated movements are a danger to rationality.

As far a Geocentrism it's just yet another conspiracy. If you want to know about the inner workings of the brain you would ask a neurologist equipped with an MRI, if you want to know about the Cosmos go ask an astronomer equipped with the latest telescope both earth and space-based. The last person I would ask is some kind of populist YouTube bassed nutter who has a clear agenda.

Go look at the CMBR map.

To say the earth is stationary or not rotating is just plain silly.

Go look at the CMBR map.

Enjoy the truth : https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2272652#msg2272652

To say the earth is stationary or not rotating is just plain silly.

To talk about something you know nothing about is very idiotic, to say the least!

To talk about something you know nothing about is very idiotic, to say the least!

So prove to me - beyond any element of doubt - that the Earth is not  rotating and that your belief is correct.  Just saying that you cannot feel it rotating is not proof.  That is a personal opinion that you have. I cannot feel it turning but I can actually see it turning.

And don't try the 'I know nothing about it' excuse with me. Because if you really think the Earth is stationary then clearly I know a lot more than you.

Quote from: Timeisup on July 27, 2020, 08:05:12 AM

Go look at the CMBR map.

Enjoy the truth : https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=86036.msg2272652#msg2272652

Quote from: Timeisup on July 27, 2020, 08:05:12 AM

To say the earth is stationary or not rotating is just plain silly.

To talk about something you know nothing about is very idiotic, to say the least!

I know little about you or why you have your particular beliefs, but so far all the 'evidence' you have provided has come from either Youtube or just your own opinions.

If you stand back for one moment and think. Currently, there are hundreds of very sophisticated land-based and spaced based telescopes of different varieties all providing hard data on which scientists draw assumptions and make conclusions on the state of things.

To date, the belief that the earth spins and orbits the sun has not only been verified by these sophisticated systems but can be simply done by observation. To say the earth is stationary is patently not true regardless of what Youtube has to say on the matter.

Belief in flat Earth is just that.  A belief and nothing more.  The facts and all evidence to the contrary don't matter to those who believe.  Pretty much the same as any conspiracy theory.

Just saying that you cannot feel it rotating is not proof.  That is a personal opinion that you have. I cannot feel it turning but I can actually see it turning.

Prove you can actually see it turning.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore on July 26, 2020, 06:30:10 PM

Brother James is on sabbatical, I am sure his upcoming work will be most illuminating.

It would be great to have you, dogplatter and theengineer back here on a regular basis.

Then, this forum can become again what it once was, some eight years ago.

I agree.

Prove you can actually see it turning.

Look through a telescope which is not tracking the sky.  Telescopes magnify everything and that includes the rotation of the Earth. You can see stars drift through the field of view as the Earth rotates.  Now sure you could say I am actually seeing the sky rotating about a stationary Earth but then you have to explain the mechanism that is causing the sky to rotate. 

Can you prove to me that it is the sky rotating from east to west rather than the Earth rotating from west to east?

Can you prove to me that it is the sky rotating from east to west rather than the Earth rotating from west to east?

That was the point they were making.
Can you show it is Earth rotating rather than the sky?

You don't directly observe Earth turning, as observations are relative. Instead you need something in addition to that simple visual observation.