The flat earther sees what's true

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 02:36:00 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 02:29:31 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 02:22:23 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 11, 2020, 03:03:12 PM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 11, 2020, 09:08:18 AM

Quote from: Solarwind on July 11, 2020, 08:54:59 AM

Quote

I found a good example of how a flat earther sees the truth of our world.

Saying things like that almost makes you sound like a flat Earth believer.  Yet you have insisted previously that you don't have a particular view on either side.

I think he decided there was more troll potential in going full flat.

I'm not sure what the point of this inane OP is however, as I bet even rab won't respond to it.

What makes you think whether I care about rab replying or not? It is inconsequential. Your replies on the other hand.... Hilarious

It is odd people do live without questioning anything though. No better than a dog mindlessly obeying his master. Waking up each day without the concept of a tomorrow. Just trolls along with the present.

Everyone should be free to think what they wish. The problems begin when zealots start pronouncing that it is only they, due to their ‘free thinking’. are able to see and know the truth, and everyone else is being controlled by some hidden 1984ish authoritarian power.

So what does ‘free thinking’ actually mean according to a flat earther? From the many examples on this forum it appears to mean being allowed to think up any idea one wishes and proclaiming it to be true, regardless of available evidence.

For example, flat earthers proclaim the sun is a small body near to the earth and not 1.4 million kilometres in diameter at a distance of around 150 million kilometres. Why do they think that? What actual evidence do they base their ‘free thinking’ on? They base it on no evidence at all, rather they base it on need. They need the sun to be small and near to fit with the earth being flat, so hey presto!  It becomes a flat earth free thinking truth, despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

To establish the ‘truth’ in regard to the shape of the earth, for example, is ridiculously simple in this day and age. All you need is a person in Australia and one in the UK. Other country combinations will also work, southern Chile and Canada for example. Get each to take a well exposed photo of the moon on a clear night with a camera with a reasonable telephoto lens.
An examination of the two photos will reveal that the photographs of the same moon are very different. A right thinking person would conclude that this, along with all the other evidence, points to the earth being a sphere of some sort, with each of the two photographers being on opposite hemispheres. A free thinking flat earther would concoct some elaborate story to make the pictures fit what they believe, despite the evidence of their own eyes.

Flat earth ‘free thinking’ should be called ‘locked in thinking’ as everything they think has to conform to their flat earth belief no matter what.

Locked in thinking is what you get when you put ideas into a book. If a Flat Earther says one day one thing and another day, changes it up, that is free. There is no constraints. It is for the most part, a free world. It is not for you to decide what their truth is

Are you sure you're not the zealot pronouncing your theory is the only theory?

In essence what you are saying is truth to a flat earther is irrelevant as it can change on a daily basis

How does your flat earth free thinking, today, explain the difference in the photographs of the moon in the example I mentioned earlier? Would you have a different explanation next week?

Depends on what information comes to light next week. I'm not going to pull out a century old book and say 'but but, here it says...'

Our understanding of the universe is constantly evolving. It is foolhardy to regress your understanding by centuries because you think there has been nothing new to be learnt.

Where do you get your information from?

How do you vet your information and decide if it's true' or not

Where do you get your understanding of the universe from?

As a free-thinking individual with very limited senses, like the rest of us, how can you determine anything about the universe other than that you can see with your own eyes?

Speaking about your eyes how do you explain the discrepancy between what you see when you look at the moon and what I see, with you being in Australia and me in the UK.
How does a free thinker explain that?

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 02:42:00 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 02:36:00 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 02:29:31 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 02:22:23 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 11, 2020, 03:03:12 PM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 11, 2020, 09:08:18 AM

Quote from: Solarwind on July 11, 2020, 08:54:59 AM

Quote

I found a good example of how a flat earther sees the truth of our world.

Saying things like that almost makes you sound like a flat Earth believer.  Yet you have insisted previously that you don't have a particular view on either side.

I think he decided there was more troll potential in going full flat.

I'm not sure what the point of this inane OP is however, as I bet even rab won't respond to it.

What makes you think whether I care about rab replying or not? It is inconsequential. Your replies on the other hand.... Hilarious

It is odd people do live without questioning anything though. No better than a dog mindlessly obeying his master. Waking up each day without the concept of a tomorrow. Just trolls along with the present.

Everyone should be free to think what they wish. The problems begin when zealots start pronouncing that it is only they, due to their ‘free thinking’. are able to see and know the truth, and everyone else is being controlled by some hidden 1984ish authoritarian power.

So what does ‘free thinking’ actually mean according to a flat earther? From the many examples on this forum it appears to mean being allowed to think up any idea one wishes and proclaiming it to be true, regardless of available evidence.

For example, flat earthers proclaim the sun is a small body near to the earth and not 1.4 million kilometres in diameter at a distance of around 150 million kilometres. Why do they think that? What actual evidence do they base their ‘free thinking’ on? They base it on no evidence at all, rather they base it on need. They need the sun to be small and near to fit with the earth being flat, so hey presto!  It becomes a flat earth free thinking truth, despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

To establish the ‘truth’ in regard to the shape of the earth, for example, is ridiculously simple in this day and age. All you need is a person in Australia and one in the UK. Other country combinations will also work, southern Chile and Canada for example. Get each to take a well exposed photo of the moon on a clear night with a camera with a reasonable telephoto lens.
An examination of the two photos will reveal that the photographs of the same moon are very different. A right thinking person would conclude that this, along with all the other evidence, points to the earth being a sphere of some sort, with each of the two photographers being on opposite hemispheres. A free thinking flat earther would concoct some elaborate story to make the pictures fit what they believe, despite the evidence of their own eyes.

Flat earth ‘free thinking’ should be called ‘locked in thinking’ as everything they think has to conform to their flat earth belief no matter what.

Locked in thinking is what you get when you put ideas into a book. If a Flat Earther says one day one thing and another day, changes it up, that is free. There is no constraints. It is for the most part, a free world. It is not for you to decide what their truth is

Are you sure you're not the zealot pronouncing your theory is the only theory?

In essence what you are saying is truth to a flat earther is irrelevant as it can change on a daily basis

How does your flat earth free thinking, today, explain the difference in the photographs of the moon in the example I mentioned earlier? Would you have a different explanation next week?

Depends on what information comes to light next week. I'm not going to pull out a century old book and say 'but but, here it says...'

Our understanding of the universe is constantly evolving. It is foolhardy to regress your understanding by centuries because you think there has been nothing new to be learnt.

Where do you get your information from?

How do you vet your information and decide if it's true' or not

Where do you get your understanding of the universe from?

As a free-thinking individual with very limited senses, like the rest of us, how can you determine anything about the universe other than that you can see with your own eyes?

Speaking about your eyes how do you explain the discrepancy between what you see when you look at the moon and what I see, with you being in Australia and me in the UK.
How does a free thinker explain that?

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 07:24:07 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 02:42:00 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 02:36:00 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 02:29:31 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 02:22:23 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 11, 2020, 03:03:12 PM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 11, 2020, 09:08:18 AM

Quote from: Solarwind on July 11, 2020, 08:54:59 AM

Quote

I found a good example of how a flat earther sees the truth of our world.

Saying things like that almost makes you sound like a flat Earth believer.  Yet you have insisted previously that you don't have a particular view on either side.

I think he decided there was more troll potential in going full flat.

I'm not sure what the point of this inane OP is however, as I bet even rab won't respond to it.

What makes you think whether I care about rab replying or not? It is inconsequential. Your replies on the other hand.... Hilarious

It is odd people do live without questioning anything though. No better than a dog mindlessly obeying his master. Waking up each day without the concept of a tomorrow. Just trolls along with the present.

Everyone should be free to think what they wish. The problems begin when zealots start pronouncing that it is only they, due to their ‘free thinking’. are able to see and know the truth, and everyone else is being controlled by some hidden 1984ish authoritarian power.

So what does ‘free thinking’ actually mean according to a flat earther? From the many examples on this forum it appears to mean being allowed to think up any idea one wishes and proclaiming it to be true, regardless of available evidence.

For example, flat earthers proclaim the sun is a small body near to the earth and not 1.4 million kilometres in diameter at a distance of around 150 million kilometres. Why do they think that? What actual evidence do they base their ‘free thinking’ on? They base it on no evidence at all, rather they base it on need. They need the sun to be small and near to fit with the earth being flat, so hey presto!  It becomes a flat earth free thinking truth, despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

To establish the ‘truth’ in regard to the shape of the earth, for example, is ridiculously simple in this day and age. All you need is a person in Australia and one in the UK. Other country combinations will also work, southern Chile and Canada for example. Get each to take a well exposed photo of the moon on a clear night with a camera with a reasonable telephoto lens.
An examination of the two photos will reveal that the photographs of the same moon are very different. A right thinking person would conclude that this, along with all the other evidence, points to the earth being a sphere of some sort, with each of the two photographers being on opposite hemispheres. A free thinking flat earther would concoct some elaborate story to make the pictures fit what they believe, despite the evidence of their own eyes.

Flat earth ‘free thinking’ should be called ‘locked in thinking’ as everything they think has to conform to their flat earth belief no matter what.

Locked in thinking is what you get when you put ideas into a book. If a Flat Earther says one day one thing and another day, changes it up, that is free. There is no constraints. It is for the most part, a free world. It is not for you to decide what their truth is

Are you sure you're not the zealot pronouncing your theory is the only theory?

In essence what you are saying is truth to a flat earther is irrelevant as it can change on a daily basis

How does your flat earth free thinking, today, explain the difference in the photographs of the moon in the example I mentioned earlier? Would you have a different explanation next week?

Depends on what information comes to light next week. I'm not going to pull out a century old book and say 'but but, here it says...'

Our understanding of the universe is constantly evolving. It is foolhardy to regress your understanding by centuries because you think there has been nothing new to be learnt.

Where do you get your information from?

How do you vet your information and decide if it's true' or not

Where do you get your understanding of the universe from?

As a free-thinking individual with very limited senses, like the rest of us, how can you determine anything about the universe other than that you can see with your own eyes?

Speaking about your eyes how do you explain the discrepancy between what you see when you look at the moon and what I see, with you being in Australia and me in the UK.
How does a free thinker explain that?

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

So you don't like giving straight answers!

How about explaining how your free-thinking mind comes up with an answer to explain why how you see of the moon is very different from the way I see the moon. Straight question which your free-thinking mind should be able to answer.

So you don't like giving straight answers!

How about explaining how your free-thinking mind comes up with an answer to explain why how you see of the moon is very different from the way I see the moon. Straight question which your free-thinking mind should be able to answer.

Because no answer is straight. At least as far as the human mind can currently understand of our universe.

You and I are possibly ~17,000km apart or more. Of course, looking at an object in the sky will give us a different view of it.

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

So, as usual you have no answer ! Figures!

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 07:33:56 AM

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

So, as usual you have no answer ! Figures!

No one has the 'answer'. Not even you 

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 07:53:46 AM

So you don't like giving straight answers!

How about explaining how your free-thinking mind comes up with an answer to explain why how you see of the moon is very different from the way I see the moon. Straight question which your free-thinking mind should be able to answer.

Because no answer is straight. At least as far as the human mind can currently understand of our universe.

You and I are possibly ~17,000km apart or more. Of course, looking at an object in the sky will give us a different view of it.

....and that's the best answer your free-thinking mind can come up with? How do you explain, given you believe in a flat earth, that your view of the moon is upside down with respect to my view?

How do you know I am 17,000 miles away?

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 08:15:14 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 07:33:56 AM

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

So, as usual you have no answer ! Figures!

No one has the 'answer'. Not even you 

That's a very narrow-minded response that only someone with a closed mind would give.

Your logic:-
You don't have an answer to a question.....you don't want to look totally stupid!.... so to cover yourself you say no one has an answer! ....which equates with the proverbial three-legged horse....lame.

That aside.

Where do you get you information from on which your free-thinking mind cogitates? the answer to that one would be very illuminating.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 08:15:14 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 07:33:56 AM

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

So, as usual you have no answer ! Figures!

No one has the 'answer'. Not even you 

Of course there are answers to simple questions like that!

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 08:03:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 07:53:46 AM

So you don't like giving straight answers!

How about explaining how your free-thinking mind comes up with an answer to explain why how you see of the moon is very different from the way I see the moon. Straight question which your free-thinking mind should be able to answer.

Because no answer is straight. At least as far as the human mind can currently understand of our universe.

You and I are possibly ~17,000km apart or more. Of course, looking at an object in the sky will give us a different view of it.

....and that's the best answer your free-thinking mind can come up with? How do you explain, given you believe in a flat earth, that your view of the moon is upside down with respect to my view?

How do you know I am 17,000 miles away?

~17,000km. Not miles. Based on me being in Canberra and you being in UK

Please note the use of the symbol '~'. Obviously not exactly 17,000km but close enough to around that figure.


It is just fact that no one has answers to everything. Not me, not you, not rab. If there is a God, perhaps he has answers to everything. He's not lurking these boards to help us out so tough tits you wont get straight answers.

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 08:15:14 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 07:33:56 AM

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

So, as usual you have no answer ! Figures!

No one has the 'answer'. Not even you 

Of course there are answers to simple questions like that!

You'd be surprised

Hey Shifter, the usual bots, trolls and sock puppets are here only defending the mainstream with NASA to back them up.
 Now I have a question for these drones. What if anything that NASA says is true nowdays do you not believe? You guys are programmed( brainwashed) to believe everything that NASA feeds you.

Hey Shifter, the usual bots, trolls and sock puppets are here only defending the mainstream with NASA to back them up.
 Now I have a question for these drones. What if anything that NASA says is true nowdays do you not believe? You guys are programmed( brainwashed) to believe everything that NASA feeds you.

I don't believe them when they say they are going to land people on the Moon by 2024. Not because I think the first landings were a hoax, I just don't think the money and drive is there to really push that deadline.

Four years from now if I'm proven wrong I'll be very happy.

I can't imagine I'll still be posting here in a year let alone four, though if we do land humans on the Moon that would likely bring me back.

It is just fact that no one has answers to everything. Not me, not you, not rab. If there is a God, perhaps he has answers to everything. He's not lurking these boards to help us out so tough tits you wont get straight answers.

Nobody here, apart maybe from maybe Sandokhan , claims to have "answers to everything"! Who suggested that they did?
But you seem to think nobody can have the answers to anything.

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 08:43:08 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 08:03:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 07:53:46 AM

So you don't like giving straight answers!

How about explaining how your free-thinking mind comes up with an answer to explain why how you see of the moon is very different from the way I see the moon. Straight question which your free-thinking mind should be able to answer.

Ask yourself the qua
Because no answer is straight. At least as far as the human mind can currently understand of our universe.

You and I are possibly ~17,000km apart or more. Of course, looking at an object in the sky will give us a different view of it.

....and that's the best answer your free-thinking mind can come up with? How do you explain, given you believe in a flat earth, that your view of the moon is upside down with respect to my view?

How do you know I am 17,000 miles away?

~17,000km. Not miles. Based on me being in Canberra and you being in UK

Please note the use of the symbol '~'. Obviously not exactly 17,000km but close enough to around that figure.


It is just fact that no one has answers to everything. Not me, not you, not rab. If there is a God, perhaps he has answers to everything. He's not lurking these boards to help us out so tough tits you wont get straight answers.

Ask yourself the question. How do you know its 17,000 miles? Have you yourself measured it?

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 08:54:02 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 08:25:49 AM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 08:15:14 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 07:33:56 AM

The answers are contained in your your last question. Free thinking

I dont say I am right so much as I say I know there is more to our world and universe than we can understand. I wont constrain myself to a book or what some random people on the internet say to tell me what is what.

Question everything. Including what may appear obvious. When mainstream takes a view, start with an opposing one. If you appreciate science than you would appreciate the questions. The speculations. The differing hypothesis. Never pack it up and say we've learned all there is to know.

So, as usual you have no answer ! Figures!

No one has the 'answer'. Not even you 

Of course there are answers to simple questions like that!

You'd be surprised

I'd be surprised if you give a clear answer to the following two questions but let's give it a go. With your best free-thinking hat on:-

Why is your view of the moon upside down relative to my view?

What is the source of your information?

Nobody is bound to it though. That is why there are so many 'models'
Round Earthers are stuck on one model and for the most part, it doesn't matter what new information gets presented, unless mainstream think decides to change, individuals wont.

There is pretty much just one RE model with different levels of simplification, because Earth is round.
Because this one model actually works to explain things.
It has nothing at all to do with indoctrination.

There are so many different FE "models", because none of them work to explain reality.
So they need different models to try to explain different aspects of reality, pushing the problem around as they do so.

This also means that FEers do not simply see what is true. If they did, they would all have one model, not numerous contradictory models which cannot all be true.

Being open to the possibility that you are wrong doesn't mean accepting unsubstantiated garbage, nor rejecting what is supported by mountains of evidence.

Meanwhile, how many FEers do you know of that are open to the possibility that they are wrong, and that Earth is actually round? NONE!
If they were, they would have accepted all the evidence showing Earth to be round and accepted that Earth was round. Or at the very least, they would admit there is no reason to believe Earth is flat.

But if our universe is nothing but a holographic projection from a 2D source, well that sounds like we live on Flatland. It's just physics we haven't learned about that makes our world appear spherical.

No, it doesn't. 2D does not mean flat.

Keep in mind also everything about the universe lends itself to a flat shape. The universe is said to be flat. The Plane of the Ecliptic, flat. Many galaxy shapes - flat. Earth - flat.

The universe is EUCLIDEAN, not flat in the sense of a flat object.
You have literally no basis at all for claiming Earth is flat.

How do you explain, given you believe in a flat earth, that your view of the moon is upside down with respect to my view?

The moon being upside down is trivial. The impossible part is explaining why the view is different ~only by a rotation, rather than seeing a completely different area or it being skewed.

I wonder if Shifter has ever heard a physicist beginning their answer to one of the fundamental 'big' questions such as 'How did the Universe begin?' with the words 'we think...' as opposed to 'we know...'.

Science is about trying to provide the answers to all the questions we come up with about nature and the Universe. It is a very brave physicist who uses the word know in place of the word think. However the more we learn the more confident we can feel about being on the right road. Shifter maintains that we should question 'everything' and in some ways we do. Physicists spend their careers testing and retesting their hypotheses. By repeating experiments and observations we are questioning the previous results and looking for errors. If the actual results or data gained from observation or experiments consistently agree with the predicted results of data then we can start to turn 'we think' into 'we will now accept that as true until something gives us reason not to'. This falls short of 'we know' but it represents a point that Shifter seems reluctant to acknowledge.  If we are never willing to accept things as true though, how will we ever make any progress?  So rather than say 'we know' we should say 'to the best of our understanding'.

Mother nature decides what is true and real not us. So by saying 'to the best of our understanding' we are acknowledging this. Through the generations science has helped us to gather more and more data from which we can reach an educated guess about what is true and real and so far all that evidence has led science to consider that the best way to explain everything we see and experience on Earth is to regard it as a a sphere. Flat Earthers will disagree but that is simply their own conclusion based on what they believe. The same evidence is available to everyone but not everyone will reach the same conclusions. Flat Earthers have their reasons for reaching the conclusions they reach and the same applies to round Earth. The difference in my opinion is that RE is based much more on real data and evidence while FE seems to be happy to rely simply on faith or blind belief.

Only mother nature ultimately knows all the answers. That most certainly is true and always will be. She doesn't care what we think or believe either. If she could speak she would say you can interpret the truth however you wish but you cannot change what is real.  That is for us to figure out.

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 09:00:04 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 08:43:08 AM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 08:03:19 AM

Quote from: Timeisup on July 14, 2020, 07:53:46 AM

So you don't like giving straight answers!

How about explaining how your free-thinking mind comes up with an answer to explain why how you see of the moon is very different from the way I see the moon. Straight question which your free-thinking mind should be able to answer.

Ask yourself the qua
Because no answer is straight. At least as far as the human mind can currently understand of our universe.

You and I are possibly ~17,000km apart or more. Of course, looking at an object in the sky will give us a different view of it.

....and that's the best answer your free-thinking mind can come up with? How do you explain, given you believe in a flat earth, that your view of the moon is upside down with respect to my view?

How do you know I am 17,000 miles away?

~17,000km. Not miles. Based on me being in Canberra and you being in UK

Please note the use of the symbol '~'. Obviously not exactly 17,000km but close enough to around that figure.


It is just fact that no one has answers to everything. Not me, not you, not rab. If there is a God, perhaps he has answers to everything. He's not lurking these boards to help us out so tough tits you wont get straight answers.

Ask yourself the question. How do you know its 17,000 miles? Have you yourself measured it?

Are you dense? Like black hole singularity dense?I said kilometres. And I used '~'. That is not a symbol for 'precise'

Learn to comprehend. Gee, and you would think I'm stupid. Look at yourself!

Hey Shifter, the usual bots, trolls and sock puppets are here only defending the mainstream with NASA to back them up.
 Now I have a question for these drones. What if anything that NASA says is true nowdays do you not believe? You guys are programmed( brainwashed) to believe everything that NASA feeds you.

Evil NASA!  Hahaha!

I love the way flat earthers keep banging on about NASA, as if this wasn't all figured out hundreds of years before they existed.   But you've got to have your boogieman, so it gets unthinkingly repeated again, and again, and again, and again...

Almost like you've all been brainwashed.

Quote from: rvlvr on July 14, 2020, 05:23:38 AM

So round Earthers should have more models? Why?

No, but they should be open to the possibility they are wrong. Or at least not seeing the sheer scale of how the universe operates.

To me, it doesn't matter if humans can never interact or even know of the existence of other spatial dimensions. If they exist, they are part of our universe and should be included.

But if our universe is nothing but a holographic projection from a 2D source, well that sounds like we live on Flatland. It's just physics we haven't learned about that makes our world appear spherical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

Keep in mind also everything about the universe lends itself to a flat shape. The universe is said to be flat. The Plane of the Ecliptic, flat. Many galaxy shapes - flat. Earth - flat.

Ironic!

How do you know the universe is flat?
How do you know anything to do with the shape of galaxies?

You say the universe is said to be flat! Most Likely by the same people who would say the earth is a sphere!

All what you say shows classic signs of cherry picking
coupled with a mixed up way of thinking.

Anything you know about the Cosmos is through information supplied by astronomers, the very same people who would state the earth is a sphere. There is no other way it can be interpreted!
Do you think the distance between you and I which you claim to be 17,000 km can change from day to day or is it fixed?

Flat earthers see only what they want to see, and you have demonstrated that very thing  going by the replies you have given.

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 05:35:44 AM

Quote from: rvlvr on July 14, 2020, 05:23:38 AM

So round Earthers should have more models? Why?

No, but they should be open to the possibility they are wrong. Or at least not seeing the sheer scale of how the universe operates.

To me, it doesn't matter if humans can never interact or even know of the existence of other spatial dimensions. If they exist, they are part of our universe and should be included.

But if our universe is nothing but a holographic projection from a 2D source, well that sounds like we live on Flatland. It's just physics we haven't learned about that makes our world appear spherical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

Keep in mind also everything about the universe lends itself to a flat shape. The universe is said to be flat. The Plane of the Ecliptic, flat. Many galaxy shapes - flat. Earth - flat.

Ironic!

How do you know the universe is flat?
How do you know anything to do with the shape of galaxies?

You say the universe is said to be flat! Most Likely by the same people who would say the earth is a sphere!

All what you say shows classic signs of cherry picking
coupled with a mixed up way of thinking.

Anything you know about the Cosmos is through information supplied by astronomers, the very same people who would state the earth is a sphere. There is no other way it can be interpreted!
Do you think the distance between you and I which you claim to be 17,000 km can change from day to day or is it fixed?

Flat earthers see only what they want to see, and you have demonstrated that very thing  going by the replies you have given.

My God you struggle with comprehension

Saying 'it is said to be flat' is not asserting that it is.

You clearly have a lot if things you wish to say. Too bad for you a lot of what I say is filled with qualifiers that rob you of the opportunity. Still doesn't seem to stop you though lol.

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Just say what you want to say. Don't bother reading my posts

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

But flat in the way physical cosmologists use the term has nothing to do with the Earth or even galaxies being flat.
Cosmologists are looking further even than the observable Universe - that part's spherical of necessity.

But I don't bother about all of that. It's interesting to read but not slightest thing to do with our Solar system or even nearby stars.
Virtually all the individual stars we see with the unaided eye are just local stars in the Milky Way.

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Why do you go on about all unknowns in Cosmology when it's the shape and movement of the Earth and the paths of the moons and planets that should be  sorted out first?

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 03:51:24 PM

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

But flat in the way physical cosmologists use the term has nothing to do with the Earth or even galaxies being flat.
Cosmologists are looking further even than the observable Universe - that part's spherical of necessity.

But I don't bother about all of that. It's interesting to read but not slightest thing to do with our Solar system or even nearby stars.
Virtually all the individual stars we see with the unaided eye are just local stars in the Milky Way.

Quote from: Shifter

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Why do you go on about all unknowns in Cosmology when it's the shape and movement of the Earth and the paths of the moons and planets that should be  sorted out first?

Because until we define the nature of the universe, everything else is just an assumption. A best guess.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 03:51:24 PM

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

But flat in the way physical cosmologists use the term has nothing to do with the Earth or even galaxies being flat.
Cosmologists are looking further even than the observable Universe - that part's spherical of necessity.

But I don't bother about all of that. It's interesting to read but not slightest thing to do with our Solar system or even nearby stars.
Virtually all the individual stars we see with the unaided eye are just local stars in the Milky Way.

Quote from: Shifter

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Why do you go on about all unknowns in Cosmology when it's the shape and movement of the Earth and the paths of the moons and planets that should be  sorted out first?

Because until we define the nature of the universe, everything else is just an assumption. A best guess.

This is what most people have a problem with when you come right out and say it.  That because I don't know what an alien on the other side of the universe had for breakfast, I have no idea what's sitting in front of me. 

We know the Earth is a sphere, and not knowing what color an aliens poop is doesn't change that.  We can know things about the planet we live on without knowing all the mysteries of the universe.

The shape of the Earth is not a best guess, it's a simply fact. The same fact as the shape of my desk.  If you want to go on a philosophical journey about not knowing if anything is real or question the nature of your own existence that's fine, but you can't just declare everyone else is wrong because you're not sure how alien burps smell.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 03:51:24 PM

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

But flat in the way physical cosmologists use the term has nothing to do with the Earth or even galaxies being flat.
Cosmologists are looking further even than the observable Universe - that part's spherical of necessity.

But I don't bother about all of that. It's interesting to read but not slightest thing to do with our Solar system or even nearby stars.
Virtually all the individual stars we see with the unaided eye are just local stars in the Milky Way.

Quote from: Shifter

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Why do you go on about all unknowns in Cosmology when it's the shape and movement of the Earth and the paths of the moons and planets that should be  sorted out first?

Because until we define the nature of the universe, everything else is just an assumption. A best guess.

Don't be absurd!
There's not the slightest need to know "the nature of the universe" before determining a simple local thing like the shape of the Earth.

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 05:15:47 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 03:51:24 PM

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

But flat in the way physical cosmologists use the term has nothing to do with the Earth or even galaxies being flat.
Cosmologists are looking further even than the observable Universe - that part's spherical of necessity.

But I don't bother about all of that. It's interesting to read but not slightest thing to do with our Solar system or even nearby stars.
Virtually all the individual stars we see with the unaided eye are just local stars in the Milky Way.

Quote from: Shifter

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Why do you go on about all unknowns in Cosmology when it's the shape and movement of the Earth and the paths of the moons and planets that should be  sorted out first?

Because until we define the nature of the universe, everything else is just an assumption. A best guess.

Don't be absurd!
There's not the slightest need to know "the nature of the universe" before determining a simple local thing like the shape of the Earth.

If our universe was just a simulation for example. Are you made up of atoms? Or ultimately just lines of code?

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 05:44:30 PM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 05:15:47 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 03:51:24 PM

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

But flat in the way physical cosmologists use the term has nothing to do with the Earth or even galaxies being flat.
Cosmologists are looking further even than the observable Universe - that part's spherical of necessity.

But I don't bother about all of that. It's interesting to read but not slightest thing to do with our Solar system or even nearby stars.
Virtually all the individual stars we see with the unaided eye are just local stars in the Milky Way.

Quote from: Shifter

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Why do you go on about all unknowns in Cosmology when it's the shape and movement of the Earth and the paths of the moons and planets that should be  sorted out first?

Because until we define the nature of the universe, everything else is just an assumption. A best guess.

Don't be absurd!
There's not the slightest need to know "the nature of the universe" before determining a simple local thing like the shape of the Earth.

If our universe was just a simulation for example. Are you made up of atoms? Or ultimately just lines of code?

Yet more science fiction dressed up. The Matrix has a lot to answer for!
Back to the real world.

Like many flat earthers you like to throw up such smoke screens like your atoms or code. The only reason you know about either thing is due to the hard work of scientists. You like other flat earthers are no more than leeches, pretending you reject science, knowledge and learning, yet sucking up those bits that you imagine bolster your ego and position.

You bandy about complex ideas, none of which are your own,  that you have little understanding about while totally unable to deal with simple observations. You say many things are unknown yet you are willing to accept the earth is flat!
Your OP is about the truth and the claim that only free thinking flat earthers can see it. In the light of you believing the earth is flat explain to me the simple observation of the moon that  you can make by looking up, that reveals a view that is upside down in relation to what I see. If the earth is flat how do you explain that?

Let’s hear your free thinking thoughts on that and any truths you may have to share.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 05:12:59 PM

Quote from: Shifter on July 14, 2020, 03:51:24 PM

Yeah a 4 eyed geek says the universe could be flat. So? Another geek says it could be open. Another says it could be closed. So me saying it is said to be flat is hardly cherry picking. No one knows

But flat in the way physical cosmologists use the term has nothing to do with the Earth or even galaxies being flat.
Cosmologists are looking further even than the observable Universe - that part's spherical of necessity.

But I don't bother about all of that. It's interesting to read but not slightest thing to do with our Solar system or even nearby stars.
Virtually all the individual stars we see with the unaided eye are just local stars in the Milky Way.

Quote from: Shifter

Yet another thing you steam roll over because you want to say 'cherry pick' despite not having the right opportunity lol

Why do you go on about all unknowns in Cosmology when it's the shape and movement of the Earth and the paths of the moons and planets that should be  sorted out first?

Because until we define the nature of the universe, everything else is just an assumption. A best guess.

Nature of the universe!
How about you just explain to me what you see when you look up at the moon!

Your avoiding it like the plague, as you have no answer, preferring instead to deal with things you can never on your own account have any notion or understanding of, apart from what you pick up from watching scifi.

You say you speak the truth, yet you fail to answer simple questions like, where you get your information from.

How about some honesty on your part?

Quote from: rabinoz on July 14, 2020, 05:44:30 PM

Don't be absurd!
There's not the slightest need to know "the nature of the universe" before determining a simple local thing like the shape of the Earth.

If our universe was just a simulation for example. Are you made up of atoms? Or ultimately just lines of code?

Whatever, you can still determine the shape of the thing we live on, that we call Earth, in this simulation.

This is the flat Earth Society so read the start of your own society's Wiki:

Welcome to the Flat Earth Wiki, otherwise known as The FEW. This website is dedicated to unraveling the true mysteries of the universe and demonstrating that the earth is flat and that Round Earth doctrine is little more than an elaborate hoax.

No wishy-washy stuff there.
That seems in no no that the "Society's" policy is that that "the earth is flat". So, what's with all your refusal to answer simple questions?