Moon behaviour appears inconsistent with flat earth

I have responded to the thread ''Why the sun isnt getting smaller as it goes aways?'' :
www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=84275.0
My post was deleted because no debate is permitted in that section. So I continue the discussion here.

The OP had asked the question :
"Ok, according to flat Earther's, when it is dark it simply meaning the Sun went far away from you.
Now we both know that when something goes far from you it gets smaller until it disappears.
So why does the Sun remain the same size through out.?"

I personally am able to believe that this is really not well underdstood phenomenon as science has led us to believe . i also believe there are many unmentioned things going on with our perception of the sun and the behaviour of light on a large scale, maybe even that it is a function of the human eye which was made to see things this way, which may involve why the sun and moon appear the same size in the sky.

Your belief is merely conjecture and does not even attempt to provide an explanation for the observed phenomenon.

The Sun hasn't simply gone far away. It's about how we receive it's light. As for sizing: it's all about perception and the atmosphere. In both wrong Earth and flat Earth theory the Sun may appear to change sizes to our eyes but that doesn't necessarily mean the Sun itself has altered physically. The same with the moon.

That response also fails to attempt to explain the observed phenomenon.

It's amazing. You would think these globularists have never played the simple game as a child of putting an object at a distance between their forefinger and thumb, and smashing it. Yes perspective exists.

Again, hinting at an explanation, but failing to provide one.

Wise actually addressed the issue by disputing the observed phenomenon. A problem with the sun as a subject is that because of its brightness it is difficult to take good images and conversely, easy to take bad ones.

Therefore, it seems to be the moon is a better subject. It is easy to take images of and can be observed with the naked eye. Its surface is also featured, providing information about its orientation.

Ignoring perceptive illusion that makes both sun and moon appear larger near the horizon, the moon's angular size appears independent of its position in the sky. How can that be, if it is an object flying over the surfac of a flat earth at an altitude of 3000 miles ?

Also, how can it be that the appearance of the moon does not change when it is observed from a different angle ? Two people thousands of miles apart, should see the moon differently.

Moreover, the angular velocities of the sun and the moon are constant. How can that be if they are moving parallel to the flat surface of the earth ?

I am confident that everyone can think of a world model in which the observed phenomena are easy to explain.

Despite the denials you will get from them, flat Earthers are conspiracy theorists. Which means they will deny all evidence that is presented that shows that their beliefs are false. It doesn't matter what the nature of that evidence is, its sources or indeed the methods by which it was gathered.  Not surprising really because conspiracy theorists are not interested in what is true and real.  They just enjoy arguing with anyone who doesn't follow them in their beliefs. To them the only thing that is real and true is what they believe in and they won't have it any other way.

In terms of flat Earthers I have never been able to establish exactly why they believe the Earth is flat but that sort of information is not something they appear to be willing to share. Maybe they don't really know themselves?

Anyway the size of the solar disk on the sky, over the timescale of a day at least does not vary. I read a detailed account of an experiment where the Sun was imaged with a special solar telescope (equipped with Ha filter) at various times of the day and hence various altitudes.  The same camera was used in all the observations and hence the image scale was the same in each case.

If there is any variation in the size of the Sun during the course of a day then this would have been revealed by the number of pixels covered by the disk of the Sun.  However there wasn't. It remained exactly the same. 

Over the course of a year there is a very small change in the disk size owing to the Earth being further away from the Sun (aphelion) in June and nearer (perihelion) in December.

 I read a detailed account of an experiment where the Sun was imaged with a special solar telescope (equipped with Ha filter) at various times of the day and hence various altitudes.  The same camera was used in all the observations and hence the image scale was the same in each case.

How did you actually verify what you read?

Because it was from a forum relating to a dedicated solar astronomy website.  Members don't tend to lie to each other on those sort of forums. There is mutual trust if you get my drift.

Quote from: Solarwind on May 01, 2020, 01:38:45 PM

 I read a detailed account of an experiment where the Sun was imaged with a special solar telescope (equipped with Ha filter) at various times of the day and hence various altitudes.  The same camera was used in all the observations and hence the image scale was the same in each case.

How did you actually verify what you read?

I have been in an astronomy forum years ago, for just a few weeks.

they usually buy material from each other. sometimes they give the addresses of celestial bodies and share. funny posts. none have real-time video. that is, they all behave like a gang that got along with each other.

I asked a question and asked if there was an atlas that modeled the locations of the stars according to the flat world, or if one of them could prepare it.

they banned me that day. they banned even the internet service I used.

I understood that these are a group of non-believers, to get money from NASA they call science, to buy tools with this money and to explain it as science. They all trust each other because they all repeat the same lie. Until that time, they are all democratic, scientific, humanistic. When they meet someone who doesn't think like them, each one turns into Vlad The Impelar, Adolf Hitler. Humanism, human rights and scientific thought  disappear in an instant. because if you think like them you think scientifically, otherwise you can't think scientifically.

he understood that he could not get his views here, that the people here are not fools like people on the sky sites. so the most logical one is to escape naturally. so he returning him face to fools who will believe every lie of their questions without question. will he do? of course no. Either continues with a new name or whatsover, and maybe he brings here his astronomic friends to support him. 

Despite the denials you will get from them, flat Earthers are conspiracy theorists. Which means they will deny all evidence that is presented that shows that their beliefs are false. It doesn't matter what the nature of that evidence is, its sources or indeed the methods by which it was gathered.  Not surprising really because conspiracy theorists are not interested in what is true and real.  They just enjoy arguing with anyone who doesn't follow them in their beliefs. To them the only thing that is real and true is what they believe in and they won't have it any other way.

I presented the above evidence precisely to avoid having it explained away with a giant conspiracy. These observations most people can do in their back yard.

Anyway the size of the solar disk on the sky, over the timescale of a day at least does not vary. I read a detailed account of an experiment where the Sun was imaged with a special solar telescope (equipped with Ha filter) at various times of the day and hence various altitudes. The same camera was used in all the observations and hence the image scale was the same in each case.

The problem is that that evidence has been faked as part of a giant conspiracy. There is uninterrupted 24 hour footage of a constant size sun at Antarctica. Alas, it too is fake.

I asked a question and asked if there was an atlas that modeled the locations of the stars according to the flat world, or if one of them could prepare it.
they banned me that day. they banned even the internet service I used.

When was that on what forum ?

I understood that these are a group of non-believers, to get money from NASA they call science, to buy tools with this money and to explain it as science.

That claim would merit clarification and evidence, but not in this thread. This thread is about observations people can do in their back yard without NASA's help.

So far explanations for the observed phenomena consistent with a flat earth are proving elusif.

they banned me that day. they banned even the internet service I used.

Is that surprising?
They saw that you were not there with an honest interest and just wanted to troll.

They all trust each other because they all repeat the same lie.

What same lie?
So far the only one lying here is you.
They trust each other because they are not paranoid and they are not clinging onto a fantasy without any significant connection to reality which would require to reject basically all of reality.

There is plenty of evidence of the south celestial pole, and the stars which appear to circle around it.
This contradicts your FE fantasy, so you reject it all as fake, you reject reality itself because you can't handle it.

Now do you have a way to explain the south celestial pole for a FE? Or does a belief in the FE require one to reject reality?

That claim would merit clarification and evidence, but not in this thread. This thread is about observations people can do in their back yard without NASA's help.

So far explanations for the observed phenomena consistent with a flat (ftfy) globe earth are proving elusif.

I guess your question is not about observations people can do in their back yard without NASA's help. This question:

Quote from: wise

I asked a question and asked if there was an atlas that modeled the locations of the stars according to the flat world, or if one of them could prepare it.
they banned me that day. they banned even the internet service I used.

When was that on what forum ?

You have entered with a great speed and proved to troll us with same speed. You are seemingly, but whether or not you are alt of solarwind, you are seemingly so. So, bye bye.

Be fair, be true, be a flat earther.

Quote from: Solarwind on May 01, 2020, 01:38:45 PM

 I read a detailed account of an experiment where the Sun was imaged with a special solar telescope (equipped with Ha filter) at various times of the day and hence various altitudes.  The same camera was used in all the observations and hence the image scale was the same in each case.

How did you actually verify what you read?

If you bother to get a suitable filter to remove the effect of glare (gross over-exposure of the photo or your eye) you can so easily see it yourself.
A (now ex-)flat Earther, Matrix Decode, did exactly than as can be seen in: The problem with the sun on the flat earth « Reply #56 »

Not only that but no filter is needed to see that the Moon also stays the same size from rising to setting with some of my own photos of that in:
Possible explanation for sunlight on a flat earth « Reply #11 on: April 02, 2018, 11:28:13 AM »

So it is sometimes quite easy to "actually verify what you read"!

Quote from: Amoranemix

That claim would merit clarification and evidence, but not in this thread. This thread is about observations people can do in their back yard without NASA's help.

So far explanations for the observed phenomena consistent with a flat earth are proving elusif.

I guess your question is not about observations people can do in their back yard without NASA's help. This question:

You may not have noticed, but I have asked several questions. Feel free to answer them.

Quote from: Amoranemix

When was that on what forum ?

You have entered with a great speed and proved to troll us with same speed. You are seemingly, but whether or not you are alt of solarwind, you are seemingly so. So, bye bye.

Don't be paranoic I am against flat-earthers being censored.

I am still waiting for explanations for the observed phenomena consistent with a flat earth.

Quote from: Solarwind on May 01, 2020, 01:38:45 PM

 I read a detailed account of an experiment where the Sun was imaged with a special solar telescope (equipped with Ha filter) at various times of the day and hence various altitudes.  The same camera was used in all the observations and hence the image scale was the same in each case.

How did you actually verify what you read?

How do you or anyone for that matter verify what they are either taught or read for themselves?

I have responded to the thread ''Why the sun isnt getting smaller as it goes aways?'' :
www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=84275.0
My post was deleted because no debate is permitted in that section. So I continue the discussion here.

The OP had asked the question :
"Ok, according to flat Earther's, when it is dark it simply meaning the Sun went far away from you.
Now we both know that when something goes far from you it gets smaller until it disappears.
So why does the Sun remain the same size through out.?"

Quote from: faded mike on December 22, 2019, 07:29:32 PM

I personally am able to believe that this is really not well underdstood phenomenon as science has led us to believe . i also believe there are many unmentioned things going on with our perception of the sun and the behaviour of light on a large scale, maybe even that it is a function of the human eye which was made to see things this way, which may involve why the sun and moon appear the same size in the sky.

Your belief is merely conjecture and does not even attempt to provide an explanation for the observed phenomenon.

Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on February 11, 2020, 09:57:31 PM

The Sun hasn't simply gone far away. It's about how we receive it's light. As for sizing: it's all about perception and the atmosphere. In both wrong Earth and flat Earth theory the Sun may appear to change sizes to our eyes but that doesn't necessarily mean the Sun itself has altered physically. The same with the moon.

That response also fails to attempt to explain the observed phenomenon.

Quote from: John Davis on February 13, 2020, 07:10:46 PM

It's amazing. You would think these globularists have never played the simple game as a child of putting an object at a distance between their forefinger and thumb, and smashing it. Yes perspective exists.

Again, hinting at an explanation, but failing to provide one.

Wise actually addressed the issue by disputing the observed phenomenon. A problem with the sun as a subject is that because of its brightness it is difficult to take good images and conversely, easy to take bad ones.

Therefore, it seems to be the moon is a better subject. It is easy to take images of and can be observed with the naked eye. Its surface is also featured, providing information about its orientation.

Ignoring perceptive illusion that makes both sun and moon appear larger near the horizon, the moon's angular size appears independent of its position in the sky. How can that be, if it is an object flying over the surfac of a flat earth at an altitude of 3000 miles ?

Also, how can it be that the appearance of the moon does not change when it is observed from a different angle ? Two people thousands of miles apart, should see the moon differently.

Moreover, the angular velocities of the sun and the moon are constant. How can that be if they are moving parallel to the flat surface of the earth ?

I am confident that everyone can think of a world model in which the observed phenomena are easy to explain.

Yeah, but i can see to far, i think. So if the earth is flat, hows a guy like me supposed to know how the sun works?

Amoranemix:

"Also, how can it be that the appearance of the moon does not change when it is observed from a different angle ? Two people thousands of miles apart, should see the moon differently.

Moreover, the angular velocities of the sun and the moon are constant. How can that be if they are moving parallel to the flat surface of the earth ?"

Does the moon appear upside down in some places? Also i think we could just be seeing a tunnel to another plane...

I like to think about the the egyptians and they're sun god ra and how the egyptians looked like they had a little sun floating above some of they're heads in the pictographs.

Just my two cents for you to consider if you like.
Modify message

Yeah, but i can see to far, i think. So if the earth is flat, hows a guy like me supposed to know how the sun works?

If you don't understand "how the sun works" why not believe those that do?

You keep saying that you think you can see too but where are there genuine examples?Here are two photos of the same oil platforms but taken on different days.

A number of flat Earthers on YouTube have claimed that the photo below proves that we can "see too far" for the Earth to be a Globe.

Ocean Horizon Rising (atmosphere) Blocking Visibility at 2:41

But they totally ignore this far better quality image from the same video but on a different day!

Ocean Horizon Rising (atmosphere) Blocking Visibility at 1:00
In each case Platform Habitat is claimed to be 9.41 miles away and the camera supposedly 1 foot above the water - but most agree that it had to be nearer 4 feet.

But in any photo with the light path so close to the ocean surface is suspect.
All it takes is for the water to be much colder than the air above to cause the sort of atmospheric distortion seen in that first image.

Both photos are from: Ocean Horizon Rising (atmosphere) Blocking Visibility. Not Curvature by bmlsb69

The moon and how it appears to different observers is a real ball buster for the flat earth believers that they either turn a blind eye to or invent some tortured explanation.

As has been pointed out many times the moon when viewed from lock down UK is very different from the one observed in COVID-19 free New Zealand.

How different? you may ask

Upside down different, would be the answer.


Oh......a video to watch....if you dare



It’s funny how flat earth believers bang on about only trusting what they can observe yet, show them this observation that they can see and they will ignore it.......while at the same time believing in both dome and ice wall neither of which have been observed, or ever will be.

That’s not the end of it the stars are also very different.....bit difficult  to explain a totally different sky. The only route out for flat earthers is to deny it.

Yeah, but i can see to far, i think. So if the earth is flat, hows a guy like me supposed to know how the sun works?

Why are you asking me ? That is a question for a flat-earther.

Does the moon appear upside down in some places? Also i think we could just be seeing a tunnel to another plane...

The moon has no upside or downside. The orientation of the moon may appear different to different observers, depending on their relative orientation.
Could the moon be a tunnel to another plane ? Is there any evidence to support that hypothesis ?