The effect of Solar Gravitational Potential on the GNSS

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sandokhan

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Re: The effect of Solar Gravitational Potential on the GNSS
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2020, 01:03:16 PM »
If you don't like the word ether, you must use then the phrase "quantum realm".

Bell's theorem proves that the quantum realm uses superluminal speeds.

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JJA

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Re: The effect of Solar Gravitational Potential on the GNSS
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2020, 01:16:58 PM »
If you don't like the word ether, you must use then the phrase "quantum realm".

Bell's theorem proves that the quantum realm uses superluminal speeds.

No I don't, and no it doesn't.

Re: The effect of Solar Gravitational Potential on the GNSS
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2020, 03:46:50 PM »
This amounts to trolling.
Your drivel has already been debunked:
Well you are right about one thing, your posts definitely amount to trolling.

You fail to understand what "debunking" is and requires.
Your "debunk" amounts to nothing more than an unsubstantiated claim.

You CLAIM that they should run at considerably different rates, but provide literally nothing to substantiate that.

Here is an example of how you could try to do it (The big difference being any assumptions you make to simplify the problem need to go the other way and produce a smaller number):
GPS satellites orbit at an altitude of roughly 20 000 km, so a distance from the centre of Earth of roughly 26400 km.
Earth orbits the sun at a radius of roughly 150 000 000 km.
The equation for gravitational time dilation uses a factor of sqrt(1-2GM/rc^2).

The 3 factors to focus on are:
A satellite near the sun.
A satellite away from the sun.
Earth(and technically you would want Earth's surface, but lets just focus on Earth itself as a centre point to get the biggest difference.
Or for more simplicity, we could just focus on the difference between the 2 satellite positions.
This means the distances we need to focus on are 150 026 400 km and 149 973 600 km.

The difference in time factor works out to be ~3.5E-12.
The other important thing to note is that it averages. The satellite on the far side has the clock tick slightly faster and it gets ahead. Then on the near side, it slows down. So overall it averages out to 0.

But looking at a simple worst case calculation, lets assume the satellite is on that far side for the entire duration of the night half of its orbit. That takes roughly 3 hours.
But now we are looking at only ~ half the time factor difference as we are looking at Earth vs the Satellite.
So the time factor is off by roughly 1.7E-12.
Over those 3 hours, that equates to a time difference of 1.88 e-8 s (20 ns)
With the speed of light, that equates to a difference in position of a few m.

GPS is typically not accurate to that level.

So even in the worst case scenario, which is not realistic at all by making assumptions heavily in favour of this time dilation being a problem (and thus significantly overestimating it), you end up with an error comparable to the error of standard GPS units.

Now lets look at Earth, someone on the surface, vs the Satellite.
This gives us a time dilation factor of 5.2E-10.
Notice how this is over 200 times the size.
This means over the same time period it would generate an error of a few hundred m.
And more importantly, this isn't being averaged out. The satellite remains at that altitude and thus would constantly drift, and thus the time goes out further and further and further.
On top of that you also have the time dilation factor for its relative velocity.

So GPS not recording gravitational time dilation from the sun is not a problem.

It does matter since now it's a proven fact: we have a paid shill in our midst, who spends 18 hours online, every day, and who is posting a message every 18 minutes in order to destroy this forum.
You really need to learn how to do math.

He has been online (when I loaded the page) for a grand total of 8058.35 hours. (note that due to how it counts, that is not purely indicative of someone remaining online actively on the site. In fact, in your hypothetical of someone posting every 18 minutes, that wouldn't actually register as being online for that time.

He registered on 2015-08-20.
That amounts to 1763 days in the past.

That means he has spent on average, 4.5 hours per day online.

Nothing like your claim of 18 hours per day.

If he was actually spending 18 hours online per day, then it would show his total time online as 1322 days and 6 hours.

So no, like the vast majority of your claims, it is not a proven fact.

Edit: Fixed a typo.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 01:39:20 AM by JackBlack »

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rabinoz

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Re: The effect of Solar Gravitational Potential on the GNSS
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2020, 05:54:00 PM »
If you don't like the word ether, you must use then the phrase "quantum realm".

Bell's theorem proves that the quantum realm uses superluminal speeds.
So possibly there are:
    "realms" where quantum mechanics is valid - mainly the very small but also inside "black holes" where normal laws break down,
    "realms" where Newtonian Laws are sufficiently accurate,
    "realms" where General Relativity explains what we see - the very high mass/energy and acceleration regions of the Universe,
    "realms" where acceleration's are low and where we now use "dark matter" as a place-holder for something unknown and finally the
    "realm" far from galactic clusters and mass as we know it where we now use "dark energy" as a place-holder for an unknown effect.

This seems to be the gist of Eric Verlinde's entropic gravitation ideas.
Quantum theory and General Relativity are never in conflict because in the quantum realm there is essentially no gravity and outside the quantum realm things are not quantized.
And there is no need for "dark matter" because his theory leads to something like MOND
and there is no need for "dark energy" because that is also included in his entropic gravity.

So, as far as Eric Verlinde is concerned Newtonian Laws and General Relativity are just descriptions of what happens.

His work is far from complete and others are working in the same area but who knows it might approach a "Theory of Everything" - maybe.

But I'm sure there'll still be plenty of unknowns!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 06:10:12 PM by rabinoz »