Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2020, 11:44:14 PM »
What does a compressing grip have to do with the fact that I'm pulling the door open, closer to me? I could compress my grip on the handle and push it as well.
It's all push.

Quote from: Stash

Where I think you're going is that when I grip the handle to 'pull', my grip is actually around the backside, as it were, of the handle and is now 'pushing' the handle toward me.  But your argument is easily thwarted because I can just glue the end of a piece of rope to the front of the handle and 'pull' the door open. No backside push business involved? Right?
You're holding the rope just like you're gripping the handle. If you glue the rope to your palm and open the door you are still pushing your feet into the floor to enable you to open the door.
There's no way out of it. It's all compressive force, meaning, push.

No that example would make it a a push and a pull.
In the way you observe it, it would but the reality is much different.
It's like push and suck.
Suck does not exist as a reality but we use it to describe what appears to be a different visual action.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2020, 11:47:56 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 53
Tensile forces are all compressive push, not pull.
Can you prove that ?

Quote from: sceptimatic 56
Think about this.
Take a chamber. You know it's full of atmosphere as an open container....right?
You know the atmosphere outside is basically equalised to the inside of that chamber. Nothing pushing out and nothing pushing in, as such. Just a overall set pressure which is a molecular push on push or push on resistance to push and vice versa.
[ . . . ]
The chamber is still full but full by molecular expansion, meaning much less molecules, meaning much more compressed molecules now added externally.
What is the relevance of all of that ?
This thread is about whether surface tension can cause oceans to curve.
This forum is about the shape of the earth.
The behaviour of gasses in containers appears to have nothing to do with either.

Quote from: sceptimatic 56
Quote from: Amoranemix 49
Hence, no matter how gigahuge the gargantuan superpush forces are that create vacuums, the vacuums themselves still don't push.
Lowered pressure still pushes. It's still under compression, no matter how weak.
What evidence can you present that the pressure of a vacuum is enough to make oceans curve ?

Quote from: sceptimatic 56
Quote from: Amoranemix 49
[2] What evidence can you present to support that claim ?
Observe a chamber and pump and items inside of it and put your thinking cap on, alternate to what you've been accustomed to.
Sorry, but I don't understand your evidence. I got untill putting my thinking cap on, but do not understand the instruction that follows. Your evidence does not appear to support your claim.
What evidence would you like?
What would pacify you?


When you can show me a curved bath where the water equally touches either side and then follows the curve of the bath then I'll evaluate the globe again.
Can you do this?

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Stash

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2020, 12:30:35 AM »
What does a compressing grip have to do with the fact that I'm pulling the door open, closer to me? I could compress my grip on the handle and push it as well.
It's all push.

Quote from: Stash

Where I think you're going is that when I grip the handle to 'pull', my grip is actually around the backside, as it were, of the handle and is now 'pushing' the handle toward me.  But your argument is easily thwarted because I can just glue the end of a piece of rope to the front of the handle and 'pull' the door open. No backside push business involved? Right?
You're holding the rope just like you're gripping the handle. If you glue the rope to your palm and open the door you are still pushing your feet into the floor to enable you to open the door.
There's no way out of it. It's all compressive force, meaning, push.

No that example would make it a a push and a pull.
In the way you observe it, it would but the reality is much different.
It's like push and suck.
Suck does not exist as a reality but we use it to describe what appears to be a different visual action.

No, because the two forces, for lack of a better term, may not be equal. My pulling on the rope may be far more force than my feet pushing into the ground. I may fall forward on my face, but I still pulled myself to get there.
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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Timeisup

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2020, 12:37:44 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 53
Tensile forces are all compressive push, not pull.
Can you prove that ?

Quote from: sceptimatic 56
Think about this.
Take a chamber. You know it's full of atmosphere as an open container....right?
You know the atmosphere outside is basically equalised to the inside of that chamber. Nothing pushing out and nothing pushing in, as such. Just a overall set pressure which is a molecular push on push or push on resistance to push and vice versa.
[ . . . ]
The chamber is still full but full by molecular expansion, meaning much less molecules, meaning much more compressed molecules now added externally.
What is the relevance of all of that ?
This thread is about whether surface tension can cause oceans to curve.
This forum is about the shape of the earth.
The behaviour of gasses in containers appears to have nothing to do with either.

Quote from: sceptimatic 56
Quote from: Amoranemix 49
Hence, no matter how gigahuge the gargantuan superpush forces are that create vacuums, the vacuums themselves still don't push.
Lowered pressure still pushes. It's still under compression, no matter how weak.
What evidence can you present that the pressure of a vacuum is enough to make oceans curve ?

Quote from: sceptimatic 56
Quote from: Amoranemix 49
[2] What evidence can you present to support that claim ?
Observe a chamber and pump and items inside of it and put your thinking cap on, alternate to what you've been accustomed to.
Sorry, but I don't understand your evidence. I got untill putting my thinking cap on, but do not understand the instruction that follows. Your evidence does not appear to support your claim.
What evidence would you like?
What would pacify you?


When you can show me a curved bath where the water equally touches either side and then follows the curve of the bath then I'll evaluate the globe again.
Can you do this?

You constantly go on about the behaviours of molecules under various conditions, how have you observed this?

You constantly go on about the porosity of materials such as metals. A careful examination of the structure of iron or steel for example under a powerful microscope will show no such porosity exists. Why do you continue to make these claims when they are so patently untrue.

Have you ever looked at the structure of steel or any other metal through a microscope?

What evidence do you have that atmospheric gasses can pass into metals rather than just react with the surfaces as in the case of both Aluminium and steel?

Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2020, 02:27:14 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 61
What evidence would you like?[2]
What would pacify you?[3]
[2] I would like intelligible, convincing evidence for the three claims I challenged.
[3] Nothing would suffice, as I am already peaceful.

Quote from: sceptimatic 61
When you can show me a curved bath where the water equally touches either side and then follows the curve of the bath then I'll evaluate the globe again.
Can you do this?
Sorry, but I don't understand the demonstration you are asking about.
By the way, it is not my duty to make you evaluate the globe again. Hence, if what you ask is much work, I won't be inclined to do it, even if that comes at the cost of you believing the earth is flat.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2020, 05:42:01 AM »
What does a compressing grip have to do with the fact that I'm pulling the door open, closer to me? I could compress my grip on the handle and push it as well.
It's all push.

Quote from: Stash

Where I think you're going is that when I grip the handle to 'pull', my grip is actually around the backside, as it were, of the handle and is now 'pushing' the handle toward me.  But your argument is easily thwarted because I can just glue the end of a piece of rope to the front of the handle and 'pull' the door open. No backside push business involved? Right?
You're holding the rope just like you're gripping the handle. If you glue the rope to your palm and open the door you are still pushing your feet into the floor to enable you to open the door.
There's no way out of it. It's all compressive force, meaning, push.

No that example would make it a a push and a pull.
In the way you observe it, it would but the reality is much different.
It's like push and suck.
Suck does not exist as a reality but we use it to describe what appears to be a different visual action.

No, because the two forces, for lack of a better term, may not be equal. My pulling on the rope may be far more force than my feet pushing into the ground. I may fall forward on my face, but I still pulled myself to get there.
You don't pull on the rope, you push the rope.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2020, 05:49:28 AM »
You constantly go on about the behaviours of molecules under various conditions, how have you observed this?
The same way you have. And then I use my logic as to what we are dealing with.

Quote from: Timeisup

You constantly go on about the porosity of materials such as metals. A careful examination of the structure of iron or steel for example under a powerful microscope will show no such porosity exists.
Wrong.
Everything is porous....it's just a case of how porous from massively (sponge) to miniscule (liquid gold/silver....etc.

Quote from: Timeisup
Why do you continue to make these claims when they are so patently untrue.
Because I believe them to be true and you are being untrue saying they're patently untrue.

 
Quote from: Timeisup
Have you ever looked at the structure of steel or any other metal through a microscope?
Yep......porous.


Quote from: Timeisup

What evidence do you have that atmospheric gasses can pass into metals rather than just react with the surfaces as in the case of both Aluminium and steel?
The cooling process from liquid to cold product.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2020, 05:50:44 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 61
What evidence would you like?[2]
What would pacify you?[3]
[2] I would like intelligible, convincing evidence for the three claims I challenged.
[3] Nothing would suffice, as I am already peaceful.

Quote from: sceptimatic 61
When you can show me a curved bath where the water equally touches either side and then follows the curve of the bath then I'll evaluate the globe again.
Can you do this?
Sorry, but I don't understand the demonstration you are asking about.
By the way, it is not my duty to make you evaluate the globe again. Hence, if what you ask is much work, I won't be inclined to do it, even if that comes at the cost of you believing the earth is flat.
Then our conversation is over.

*

Timeisup

  • 2200
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2020, 08:04:42 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 61
What evidence would you like?[2]
What would pacify you?[3]
[2] I would like intelligible, convincing evidence for the three claims I challenged.
[3] Nothing would suffice, as I am already peaceful.

Quote from: sceptimatic 61
When you can show me a curved bath where the water equally touches either side and then follows the curve of the bath then I'll evaluate the globe again.
Can you do this?
Sorry, but I don't understand the demonstration you are asking about.
By the way, it is not my duty to make you evaluate the globe again. Hence, if what you ask is much work, I won't be inclined to do it, even if that comes at the cost of you believing the earth is flat.
Then our conversation is over.

It's a difficult position you have there, the wrong one that is. None of your ideas are supported by any scientific theory and more importantly, are at odds with everyday reality.

*

Stash

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  • I am car!
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2020, 09:36:51 AM »
What does a compressing grip have to do with the fact that I'm pulling the door open, closer to me? I could compress my grip on the handle and push it as well.
It's all push.

Quote from: Stash

Where I think you're going is that when I grip the handle to 'pull', my grip is actually around the backside, as it were, of the handle and is now 'pushing' the handle toward me.  But your argument is easily thwarted because I can just glue the end of a piece of rope to the front of the handle and 'pull' the door open. No backside push business involved? Right?
You're holding the rope just like you're gripping the handle. If you glue the rope to your palm and open the door you are still pushing your feet into the floor to enable you to open the door.
There's no way out of it. It's all compressive force, meaning, push.

No that example would make it a a push and a pull.
In the way you observe it, it would but the reality is much different.
It's like push and suck.
Suck does not exist as a reality but we use it to describe what appears to be a different visual action.

No, because the two forces, for lack of a better term, may not be equal. My pulling on the rope may be far more force than my feet pushing into the ground. I may fall forward on my face, but I still pulled myself to get there.
You don't pull on the rope, you push the rope.

Do you believe in tension?
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2020, 09:40:10 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 61
What evidence would you like?[2]
What would pacify you?[3]
[2] I would like intelligible, convincing evidence for the three claims I challenged.
[3] Nothing would suffice, as I am already peaceful.

Quote from: sceptimatic 61
When you can show me a curved bath where the water equally touches either side and then follows the curve of the bath then I'll evaluate the globe again.
Can you do this?
Sorry, but I don't understand the demonstration you are asking about.
By the way, it is not my duty to make you evaluate the globe again. Hence, if what you ask is much work, I won't be inclined to do it, even if that comes at the cost of you believing the earth is flat.
Then our conversation is over.

It's a difficult position you have there, the wrong one that is. None of your ideas are supported by any scientific theory and more importantly, are at odds with everyday reality.
I don't believe they are at odds with reality. I believe they are closer to the reality than the so called scientific theory handed out, which includes something that is complete and utter nonsense, in gravity.

So, yeah, I am in a difficult position in one respect. I'm in a position of being a minority minnow against the mass of mainstream so called scientific might.

I'm ok with that. If people refuse to try to understand it from my side by adhering to the mainstream narratives, without proof, then that's what it is.


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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2020, 09:41:37 AM »


Do you believe in tension?
As in compressive force; yes.

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Stash

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  • I am car!
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2020, 09:53:59 AM »


Do you believe in tension?
As in compressive force; yes.

When I 'pull' on a rope attached to something, I put tension into it and the attached whatever is drawn nearer to me.
When I 'push' on a rope, I do not put tension into it and the rope slackens and buckles. The attached whatever does not move.

How can these both be a 'push' when one action puts tension into the rope, the other does not and the outcomes are completely different?
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2020, 10:06:59 AM »


Do you believe in tension?
As in compressive force; yes.

When I 'pull' on a rope attached to something, I put tension into it and the attached whatever is drawn nearer to me.
When I 'push' on a rope, I do not put tension into it and the rope slackens and buckles. The attached whatever does not move.

How can these both be a 'push' when one action puts tension into the rope, the other does not and the outcomes are completely different?
You are looking at it the way you've been taught, like we all did....even me, until I decided to look deeper into it all.

You push the rope, you just have to understand how and why.

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Stash

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  • I am car!
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2020, 10:20:28 AM »


Do you believe in tension?
As in compressive force; yes.

When I 'pull' on a rope attached to something, I put tension into it and the attached whatever is drawn nearer to me.
When I 'push' on a rope, I do not put tension into it and the rope slackens and buckles. The attached whatever does not move.

How can these both be a 'push' when one action puts tension into the rope, the other does not and the outcomes are completely different?
You are looking at it the way you've been taught, like we all did....even me, until I decided to look deeper into it all.

You push the rope, you just have to understand how and why.

It's not what were were taught. Any child knows there is a big difference between pulling their sled up a hill versus pushing it.

And that doesn't answer the question: How can these both be a 'push' when one action puts tension into the rope, the other does not and the outcomes are completely different?
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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Timeisup

  • 2200
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2020, 01:24:10 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 61
What evidence would you like?[2]
What would pacify you?[3]
[2] I would like intelligible, convincing evidence for the three claims I challenged.
[3] Nothing would suffice, as I am already peaceful.

Quote from: sceptimatic 61
When you can show me a curved bath where the water equally touches either side and then follows the curve of the bath then I'll evaluate the globe again.
Can you do this?
Sorry, but I don't understand the demonstration you are asking about.
By the way, it is not my duty to make you evaluate the globe again. Hence, if what you ask is much work, I won't be inclined to do it, even if that comes at the cost of you believing the earth is flat.
Then our conversation is over.

It's a difficult position you have there, the wrong one that is. None of your ideas are supported by any scientific theory and more importantly, are at odds with everyday reality.
I don't believe they are at odds with reality. I believe they are closer to the reality than the so called scientific theory handed out, which includes something that is complete and utter nonsense, in gravity.

So, yeah, I am in a difficult position in one respect. I'm in a position of being a minority minnow against the mass of mainstream so called scientific might.

I'm ok with that. If people refuse to try to understand it from my side by adhering to the mainstream narratives, without proof, then that's what it is.

Iíll tell you what the problem is. We arrived at our understanding about pressure, temperature and all things to do with gasses as a result of 200 years of experimentation by scores if not hundreds of scientists. All the verified discoveries they made have given us the various scientific laws and principles that many technologies are based on that all appear to work just fine. Take electricity generation where water is heated, steam produced that does mechanical work that is then converted into electricity. The way in which the steam behaves in its various states is well understood and it totally at odds with your own ideas. The way you describe your ideas are so far from reality that they make no sense. Steel and other metals are not  porous to gas. Think about gas canisters like propane tanks where the gas being under pressure becomes a liquid, why does it become a liquid? Why when you release the valve does it become very cold?  Your Understanding of gasses and how they behave is totally wrong. If you were right, none of our gas related technologies, including every heat engine, car engines included, would not work in they manner we are familiar with.
Does it never occur to you why everything appears to work according to laws you disagree with, could it be your are wrong about what you believe in and science is correct?

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2020, 02:09:06 PM »
You push the rope, you just have to understand how and why.
No! You pull on a rope and YOU just have to understand how and why.
The stress in a rope is one of tension - pulling.
You cannot push on a rope or it will simply bend.

End of story - you are simply wrong, no two ways about it.
Wriggle and squirm and complain that we are all indoctrinated as much but YOU are still wrong!

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2020, 10:22:43 PM »
It's not what were were taught. Any child knows there is a big difference between pulling their sled up a hill versus pushing it.
Any child knows because they were taught to use push and pull for their visual to physical activities.
Taking a sled uphill requires your feet to push into the hillside and all of your muscles required to compress to ensure that push.
Gripping a rope with the sled behind is still pushing your shoulder/arm and pushing your gripped hand along the rope, as you push into the atmosphere that is compressing you down.
All push, no pull.

Quote from: Stash
And that doesn't answer the question: How can these both be a 'push' when one action puts tension into the rope, the other does not and the outcomes are completely different?
Above should explain it.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2020, 10:50:25 PM »
Iíll tell you what the problem is. We arrived at our understanding about pressure, temperature and all things to do with gasses as a result of 200 years of experimentation by scores if not hundreds of scientists. All the verified discoveries they made have given us the various scientific laws and principles that many technologies are based on that all appear to work just fine.
So what is different to what I'm saying?
Gravity and a few little sidesteps.
It's mostly done in how I'm explaining, unless you want to show me yourself where I'm wrong by using an easy and simplistic example from your very own mind.


Quote from: Timeisup
Take electricity generation where water is heated, steam produced that does mechanical work that is then converted into electricity. The way in which the steam behaves in its various states is well understood and it totally at odds with your own ideas.
How is it at odds, unless you're on about nuclear, which I don't believe in.
Which is already a topic in TS&AS part of the forum.
Quote from: Timeisup
The way you describe your ideas are so far from reality that they make no sense.
No. They are so far from what you believe to be a reality due to your adherence to mainstream narratives, which could very well be a mixture of truth's,fictions and a mix and mash of both, into ideals.
Gravity is one such nonsense and one you cannot stand by as your proof but can stand by as your indoctrinated handed down proof.
That's not a dig by the way, we were/are all under this type of stuff. It's just a case of, to what degree each individual swallows.

Quote from: Timeisup
Steel and other metals are not  porous to gas.
Yes they are.
Some are more and some are less, but they are all porous.
Quote from: Timeisup
Think about gas canisters like propane tanks where the gas being under pressure becomes a liquid, why does it become a liquid?
It becomes a liquid because the molecules are compressed into it to a point where they cannot agitate.
It's no different to an air compressor, except for the different gas changes up to the points of use.
You compress air and it becomes condensate inside the tank. It may only be minute compared to filling a gas cylinder but it's all about compression.



Quote from: Timeisup
Why when you release the valve does it become very cold?
It's super compressed inside the cylinder but it's normal state is to be super expanded.
If you open the valve you allow that expansion to take place at the exit point, against the atmosphere.
Because the gas super expands out of the exit it pushes the atmosphere away and compresses it.....but, because the liquid is now super expanded gas, it is super expanded gas that is not under agitation to any degree to cause mass agitation, which means you initially get a freezing escape against the initial atmosphere.

That's as basic as I can muster.

Quote from: Timeisup
  Your Understanding of gasses and how they behave is totally wrong. If you were right, none of our gas related technologies, including every heat engine, car engines included, would not work in they manner we are familiar with.
Yes they would and do work, obviously.
It's just a case of understanding and marrying it all up with mine and taking out gravity, etc.

Quote from: Timeisup
Does it never occur to you why everything appears to work according to laws you disagree with, could it be your are wrong about what you believe in and science is correct?
I don't believe I'm wholly wrong. Maybe in some cases but, considering I know gravity is nonsense and many other things are...I think I have a case, whether you think so, or not.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2020, 10:53:35 PM »
You push the rope, you just have to understand how and why.
No! You pull on a rope and YOU just have to understand how and why.
The stress in a rope is one of tension - pulling.
You cannot push on a rope or it will simply bend.

End of story - you are simply wrong, no two ways about it.
Wriggle and squirm and complain that we are all indoctrinated as much but YOU are still wrong!
If you push on a rope it will, indeed, bend. It would still compress but that's not the issue.

If you grab a rope your grip pushes that rope. If you hold the rope in both bands and go left with left hand and right with right hand, you are still pushing the rope to the left and to the right, leaving it taut.
There is no pull, at all.

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Stash

  • 7961
  • I am car!
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2020, 10:56:18 PM »
It's not what were were taught. Any child knows there is a big difference between pulling their sled up a hill versus pushing it.
Any child knows because they were taught to use push and pull for their visual to physical activities.
Taking a sled uphill requires your feet to push into the hillside and all of your muscles required to compress to ensure that push.
Gripping a rope with the sled behind is still pushing your shoulder/arm and pushing your gripped hand along the rope, as you push into the atmosphere that is compressing you down.
All push, no pull.

Quote from: Stash
And that doesn't answer the question: How can these both be a 'push' when one action puts tension into the rope, the other does not and the outcomes are completely different?
Above should explain it.

Why does your theory need everything to be a push? Why isn't pull allowed?
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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sceptimatic

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Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2020, 11:02:42 PM »


Why does your theory need everything to be a push? Why isn't pull allowed?
It is allowed. Use the word, pull all you want to but I'm just saying that my reality is, it does not exist to mean anything, anymore than the word, suck, does.

I accept using them to visually understand different appearances. I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to show that everything is about push/compressive forces we are under and nothing can work unless compressive force is used.
It just requires deep thought to get it.

If people can't or don't want to, then fine. I can accept that, just as people need to accept that I don't follow that train of thought, which is why we're debating it.

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Timeisup

  • 2200
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2020, 12:37:02 AM »
Iíll tell you what the problem is. We arrived at our understanding about pressure, temperature and all things to do with gasses as a result of 200 years of experimentation by scores if not hundreds of scientists. All the verified discoveries they made have given us the various scientific laws and principles that many technologies are based on that all appear to work just fine.
So what is different to what I'm saying?
Gravity and a few little sidesteps.
It's mostly done in how I'm explaining, unless you want to show me yourself where I'm wrong by using an easy and simplistic example from your very own mind.


Quote from: Timeisup
Take electricity generation where water is heated, steam produced that does mechanical work that is then converted into electricity. The way in which the steam behaves in its various states is well understood and it totally at odds with your own ideas.
How is it at odds, unless you're on about nuclear, which I don't believe in.
Which is already a topic in TS&AS part of the forum.
Quote from: Timeisup
The way you describe your ideas are so far from reality that they make no sense.
No. They are so far from what you believe to be a reality due to your adherence to mainstream narratives, which could very well be a mixture of truth's,fictions and a mix and mash of both, into ideals.
Gravity is one such nonsense and one you cannot stand by as your proof but can stand by as your indoctrinated handed down proof.
That's not a dig by the way, we were/are all under this type of stuff. It's just a case of, to what degree each individual swallows.

Quote from: Timeisup
Steel and other metals are not  porous to gas.
Yes they are.
Some are more and some are less, but they are all porous.
Quote from: Timeisup
Think about gas canisters like propane tanks where the gas being under pressure becomes a liquid, why does it become a liquid?
It becomes a liquid because the molecules are compressed into it to a point where they cannot agitate.
It's no different to an air compressor, except for the different gas changes up to the points of use.
You compress air and it becomes condensate inside the tank. It may only be minute compared to filling a gas cylinder but it's all about compression.



Quote from: Timeisup
Why when you release the valve does it become very cold?
It's super compressed inside the cylinder but it's normal state is to be super expanded.
If you open the valve you allow that expansion to take place at the exit point, against the atmosphere.
Because the gas super expands out of the exit it pushes the atmosphere away and compresses it.....but, because the liquid is now super expanded gas, it is super expanded gas that is not under agitation to any degree to cause mass agitation, which means you initially get a freezing escape against the initial atmosphere.

That's as basic as I can muster.

Quote from: Timeisup
  Your Understanding of gasses and how they behave is totally wrong. If you were right, none of our gas related technologies, including every heat engine, car engines included, would not work in they manner we are familiar with.
Yes they would and do work, obviously.
It's just a case of understanding and marrying it all up with mine and taking out gravity, etc.

Quote from: Timeisup
Does it never occur to you why everything appears to work according to laws you disagree with, could it be your are wrong about what you believe in and science is correct?
I don't believe I'm wholly wrong. Maybe in some cases but, considering I know gravity is nonsense and many other things are...I think I have a case, whether you think so, or not.

The point you keep missing is what you believe in has nothing to do with the reality of the physical world. How it operates to a large extent has been establish and is employed in many of the technologies that make modern life possible. If the science were wrong, as you like to think, the technologies would not work.....but that is not the case.  Systems are built and designed according to the known laws which obviously work, ergo, you are wrong regardless of what you say.

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Timeisup

  • 2200
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2020, 12:50:07 AM »
Iíll tell you what the problem is. We arrived at our understanding about pressure, temperature and all things to do with gasses as a result of 200 years of experimentation by scores if not hundreds of scientists. All the verified discoveries they made have given us the various scientific laws and principles that many technologies are based on that all appear to work just fine.
So what is different to what I'm saying?
Gravity and a few little sidesteps.
It's mostly done in how I'm explaining, unless you want to show me yourself where I'm wrong by using an easy and simplistic example from your very own mind.


Quote from: Timeisup
Take electricity generation where water is heated, steam produced that does mechanical work that is then converted into electricity. The way in which the steam behaves in its various states is well understood and it totally at odds with your own ideas.
How is it at odds, unless you're on about nuclear, which I don't believe in.
Which is already a topic in TS&AS part of the forum.
Quote from: Timeisup
The way you describe your ideas are so far from reality that they make no sense.
No. They are so far from what you believe to be a reality due to your adherence to mainstream narratives, which could very well be a mixture of truth's,fictions and a mix and mash of both, into ideals.
Gravity is one such nonsense and one you cannot stand by as your proof but can stand by as your indoctrinated handed down proof.
That's not a dig by the way, we were/are all under this type of stuff. It's just a case of, to what degree each individual swallows.

Quote from: Timeisup
Steel and other metals are not  porous to gas.
Yes they are.
Some are more and some are less, but they are all porous.
Quote from: Timeisup
Think about gas canisters like propane tanks where the gas being under pressure becomes a liquid, why does it become a liquid?
It becomes a liquid because the molecules are compressed into it to a point where they cannot agitate.
It's no different to an air compressor, except for the different gas changes up to the points of use.
You compress air and it becomes condensate inside the tank. It may only be minute compared to filling a gas cylinder but it's all about compression.



Quote from: Timeisup
Why when you release the valve does it become very cold?
It's super compressed inside the cylinder but it's normal state is to be super expanded.
If you open the valve you allow that expansion to take place at the exit point, against the atmosphere.
Because the gas super expands out of the exit it pushes the atmosphere away and compresses it.....but, because the liquid is now super expanded gas, it is super expanded gas that is not under agitation to any degree to cause mass agitation, which means you initially get a freezing escape against the initial atmosphere.

That's as basic as I can muster.

Quote from: Timeisup
  Your Understanding of gasses and how they behave is totally wrong. If you were right, none of our gas related technologies, including every heat engine, car engines included, would not work in they manner we are familiar with.
Yes they would and do work, obviously.
It's just a case of understanding and marrying it all up with mine and taking out gravity, etc.

Quote from: Timeisup
Does it never occur to you why everything appears to work according to laws you disagree with, could it be your are wrong about what you believe in and science is correct?
I don't believe I'm wholly wrong. Maybe in some cases but, considering I know gravity is nonsense and many other things are...I think I have a case, whether you think so, or not.

Case in point. You claim metals are porous. What metallurgical study is this based on? While at university many years back I did a metallurgical analysis of different types of steel looking at the formation of pearlite and austenite, two of the different constituents of carbon steel. Any examination under a microscope of any carbon steel specimen will reveal its total lack of porosity. Metals are not porous, castings defects and incursions aside, saying they are is wrong. You are wrong about that just as you are wrong about everything else you state. The lack of porosity in metal is easy to check, just cut a metal bar with a hacksaw and examine the cut end with an eye glass.


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Timeisup

  • 2200
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2020, 12:57:56 AM »


Why does your theory need everything to be a push? Why isn't pull allowed?
It is allowed. Use the word, pull all you want to but I'm just saying that my reality is, it does not exist to mean anything, anymore than the word, suck, does.

I accept using them to visually understand different appearances. I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to show that everything is about push/compressive forces we are under and nothing can work unless compressive force is used.
It just requires deep thought to get it.

If people can't or don't want to, then fine. I can accept that, just as people need to accept that I don't follow that train of thought, which is why we're debating it.

One of the benchmarks in material strength is determining the Youngís modulus of the material, or its tensile strength. To carry out the test  the material is pulled till it breaks. No pushing involved as is shown here...


Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2020, 01:07:08 AM »
The key point is reading scepoys comment on gripping the rope.
He doesnt see the rope, your hand, your legs, as a separate system components.
He sees it all as one.
Youre not speaking sceppiense.
You maybe both speaking english, but left is right, up is left, down is inside out.

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Zaphod

  • 137
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #86 on: June 11, 2020, 01:17:11 AM »
I think people are getting a bit bogged down here.....

Forces are vector quantities, they have magnitudes and (importantly) directions. "Push" and "Pull" are surely just defining the direction of an applied force from the perspective of the person applying said force.

Take 2 people either side of a "regular" door.  One person will have to "push" to open it, the other will have to "pull". It's just grammatical convention. The door doesn't care what word you use, it just "feels" a force acting in one direction.

Take 2 people facing each other in a tug-of-war with a rope. They would both say they are "pulling" on the rope. If they both turned around (backs to each other) they might say they are both "pushing" the rope away. Either the way the rope experiences a stretching force and is placed under tension. As an aside, if they both  "pulled" a 100N force onto the rope, they would both have to "push" 100N of force into the ground to stay still, and a spring balance placed into the middle of the rope would read........100N! (not 200N as sandokhan thinks - something he could easily prove to himself by experiment, yet chooses not to!).


Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2020, 01:32:01 AM »
Check your wording.
If theyre both pulling then 100+100 =200

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #88 on: June 11, 2020, 02:02:02 AM »
The point you keep missing is what you believe in has nothing to do with the reality of the physical world.
 How it operates to a large extent has been establish and is employed in many of the technologies that make modern life possible. If the science were wrong, as you like to think, the technologies would not work.....but that is not the case.
 Systems are built and designed according to the known laws which obviously work, ergo, you are wrong regardless of what you say.

The point you're missing is, you're going with a reality that you do not know to be so, in terms of reasons for why things work and their origins.
Gravity is one such thing that is used to describe almost everything we are told as our supposed reality.
That alone brings a lot of stuff into question but only as an explanation.

For instance. You go with gravity pulling in the oceans to the centre of a spinning ball. The centre of mass, as you're told.
This also supposedly pulls in the atmosphere and is supposedly the reason why it doesn't fall off, kind of nonsense.
Just this alone makes no sense and I have my own ( in my belief) much much logical and simpler explanation.

This all goes right back to gases and tension and what not.
So this isn't about things not working under my thoughts, it's about things obviously working under explanations given which I do not believe to be the true real explanations, wholly and are shrouded in alternate explanations because to tell the truth would be to tell the truth of what's really going on.

That's my opinion.







 

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28338
Re: Surface tension explains how oceans can curve doesn't it?
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2020, 02:09:00 AM »
Case in point. You claim metals are porous. What metallurgical study is this based on?
It's based on simple logic and observation.
Your issue here is, you're probably thinking (if it holds air and water and doesn't leak to your visual it's not porous.
It goes a bit deeper than just that.

Quote from: Timeisup
While at university many years back I did a metallurgical analysis of different types of steel looking at the formation of pearlite and austenite, two of the different constituents of carbon steel. Any examination under a microscope of any carbon steel specimen will reveal its total lack of porosity. Metals are not porous, castings defects and incursions aside, saying they are is wrong.
The very reason everything expands and contracts is due to having porosity.
Different densities determine the extent of that porosity.

Quote from: Timeisup
You are wrong about that just as you are wrong about everything else you state. The lack of porosity in metal is easy to check, just cut a metal bar with a hacksaw and examine the cut end with an eye glass.
Cutting a metal bar with a hacksaw will show you little to the eye.
Just like looking at a chain link fence from a few hundred miles away will make it look much different to what it looks like when you approach it or magnify it from distance.

In many metals we are talking about looking at a metal sieve from a mile away, kind of thing..