how does air stay on earth

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #210 on: June 29, 2020, 06:28:15 AM »
How about you address what has been said, rather than deflecting by asking for something you will ignore like everything else you have asked for?
How about you do it.
What issues have been raised that I need to address?
Or do mean why don't I provide the picture?
If the latter, I already explained that. How many times before have you demanding something from me or another RE, just for you to dismiss it.

I'm not going to accept something from you if I don't believe it.



Quote from: JackBlack
You make it quite clear that you aren't interested in what we provide.
When you provide an understanding then I'm interested.
You seem to provide words that you say are your understanding by saying, you understand but then don't show me that you do.

Quote from: JackBlack
So no, how about you deal with the issues.
How about you explain how your air molecules expand when the freeze, and thus are no longer being agitated, when you claim that agitation is the very thing which makes them expand?
I've already explained all this in great detail but you've obviously taken little to no notice.
It's all about pressure stacking from the to the top and agitation is gained by applied energy or a sweeping pressure push provided by the good old central energy of Earth (the sun).
Failure of this energy in reaching areas of Earth from bottom to top will result in less agitation and a dormancy.

Read it many times to understand what I'm saying and you may not need to keep asking.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #211 on: June 29, 2020, 06:32:01 AM »


You have the right to keep your mind wherever you want.

I'm just showing the difference between your "no space between molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles", and the reality where the space is the most of it.
Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.

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Macarios

  • 2081
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #212 on: June 29, 2020, 06:38:28 AM »


You have the right to keep your mind wherever you want.

I'm just showing the difference between your "no space between molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles", and the reality where the space is the most of it.
Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.

The logic DID come into play.
Temperature is shown in speed of atoms and molecules (or subatomic particles in case of plazma).

If they were packed so tightly, then the particles wouldn't be able to have any speed and the temperature wouldn't exist.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28231
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #213 on: June 29, 2020, 07:28:03 AM »


You have the right to keep your mind wherever you want.

I'm just showing the difference between your "no space between molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles", and the reality where the space is the most of it.
Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.

The logic DID come into play.
Temperature is shown in speed of atoms and molecules (or subatomic particles in case of plazma).

If they were packed so tightly, then the particles wouldn't be able to have any speed and the temperature wouldn't exist.
Temperature is shown by agitation of molecules.


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NotSoSkeptical

  • 7038
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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #214 on: June 29, 2020, 09:19:45 AM »


You have the right to keep your mind wherever you want.

I'm just showing the difference between your "no space between molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles", and the reality where the space is the most of it.
Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.

The logic DID come into play.
Temperature is shown in speed of atoms and molecules (or subatomic particles in case of plazma).

If they were packed so tightly, then the particles wouldn't be able to have any speed and the temperature wouldn't exist.
Temperature is shown by agitation of molecules.

If they are packed so tightly it wouldn't agitate.
Rabinoz RIP

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Macarios

  • 2081
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #215 on: June 29, 2020, 12:04:19 PM »


You have the right to keep your mind wherever you want.

I'm just showing the difference between your "no space between molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles", and the reality where the space is the most of it.
Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.

The logic DID come into play.
Temperature is shown in speed of atoms and molecules (or subatomic particles in case of plazma).

If they were packed so tightly, then the particles wouldn't be able to have any speed and the temperature wouldn't exist.
Temperature is shown by agitation of molecules.

Exactly.
When they are agitated they gain speed.
In solids they oscillate faster, in liquids and gasses they wander faster, and hit the walls of a container harder, increasing the pressure.

For all those movements they have to have room.
That's how we know there is enough (a lot) of empty space between them.

Now google, compare several different sources, and learn how they stay together.
Not how you imagine it, but how experiments show.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #216 on: June 29, 2020, 02:31:09 PM »
I'm not going to accept something from you if I don't believe it.
And anything that I provide that refutes your model you typically wont believe.
So there is no point in me wasting time to make a picture for you to ignore it.

When you provide an understanding then I'm interested.
Pure BS.
What you mean is if I provide something that agrees with your model you would be interested, but not if I provide something that shows your model is wrong.
It has nothing to do with understanding, but entirely to do with if it contradicts your model.

I've already explained all this in great detail but you've obviously taken little to no notice.
No, you haven't explained. You have repeatedly deflected.

Even now, you still don't address the issue raised and instead just choose to insult me.

It's all about pressure stacking from the to the top and agitation is gained by applied energy or a sweeping pressure push provided by the good old central energy of Earth (the sun).
Failure of this energy in reaching areas of Earth from bottom to top will result in less agitation and a dormancy.
Yes, less agitation, which by your claims should mean the molecules shrink. That means they aren't expanding into a solid dome.


Again, stop treating me like an idiot and actually address the issues raised.

Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.
Complete non-sequiter.
See, this is where actual logic comes in and shows your claims are not supported at all.
There being free space between things in no way means things cannot exist.
There is no logical connection there at all. You just want to dismiss mainstream science as much as possible, with no logic at all.

If you truly think that is logical, then try to actually justify it with a logical argument.

As for how else logic comes into it, one way is looking at both NTE and PTE materials.
The vast majority of materials expand when heated and thus are PTE materials.
This also applies to the phase change from solid to liquid.
This is entirely consistent with both free space and no free space, along with agitation of molecules/atoms.
However, that doesn't apply to all materials.
For some, including water with its negative expansion upon melting, and many different NTE solids, this doesn't work at all with no free space.
That has no explanation at all for why these things shrink when heated. Instead it predicts everything should EXPAND when heated.
But free space explains it perfectly.
These structures have significant voids in them (free space).
When cold, the structures are rigid, keeping the voids open (by which I simply mean not filled).
But when agitated, that rigid structure becomes more flexible.
This agitation causes the molecules/atoms to start moving into that previously free space, meaning there is less free space in the overall structure and thus the substance shrinks.

So logically, this mere existence of NTE materials, either solids with a negative coefficient of thermal expansion or materials which shrink when they melt allows one to logically conclude that free space is real.

Another key factor, showing that both free space and pull are real, is the transition to a gas, where it goes from a density quite dependent upon the substance, to a much much larger molar volume which is practically identical for every substance for a given pressure and temperature.
If there is no free space and/or no such thing as pull then there is functionally no difference between a liquid and a gas. Both have molecules in very close proximity to one another (or no significant interaction between one another) and thus they should display similar properties and upon heating a liquid it should just continue to gradually expand, with no sudden change, and no massive energy requirement.
But this sudden change shows that the molecules eventually have enough energy, such that they get far enough away from neighbouring molecules such that the attractive force between them becomes negligible and the molecules move freely, with the large energy requirement being the energy required to escape the potential well. This shows that in the liquid phase, molecules are quite close together, practically touching each other such that there is significant attractive (i.e. pulling) forces between them which holds them together. But then in the gas phase, molecules are very distant from one another, with large amounts of free space between the molecules such that there is no significant attractive forces.
This also explains why the behaviour of density is so different.

So yet again, logic shows that there is abundant free space between molecules, this time specifically focusing on a gas.

So if you want to actually use logic rather than wild speculation, that means accepting free space between molecules.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.
So what is outside your dome?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28231
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #217 on: June 30, 2020, 12:51:03 AM »


You have the right to keep your mind wherever you want.

I'm just showing the difference between your "no space between molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles", and the reality where the space is the most of it.
Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.

The logic DID come into play.
Temperature is shown in speed of atoms and molecules (or subatomic particles in case of plazma).

If they were packed so tightly, then the particles wouldn't be able to have any speed and the temperature wouldn't exist.
Temperature is shown by agitation of molecules.

If they are packed so tightly it wouldn't agitate.
It's what creates the heat you feel. Dense agitation creates massive expansion which creates massive friction caused by a pressure push which is that force of expansion pushing into dense resistance.


Higher up you still get agitation but it's agitation of expanded molecules into already expanded molecules of a much less area per molecule, resulting in little friction, meaning little heat.



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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 28231
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #218 on: June 30, 2020, 01:20:20 AM »


You have the right to keep your mind wherever you want.

I'm just showing the difference between your "no space between molecules, atoms, and subatomic particles", and the reality where the space is the most of it.
Your logic should come into play when you're dealing with being told there's space between molecules/atoms/matter or whatever, because, for space to exist between anything would mean there wasn't anything to begin with.

Absolutely everything is attached on all levels. No free space can exist.

The logic DID come into play.
Temperature is shown in speed of atoms and molecules (or subatomic particles in case of plazma).

If they were packed so tightly, then the particles wouldn't be able to have any speed and the temperature wouldn't exist.
Temperature is shown by agitation of molecules.

Exactly.
When they are agitated they gain speed.
In solids they oscillate faster, in liquids and gasses they wander faster, and hit the walls of a container harder, increasing the pressure.

For all those movements they have to have room.
That's how we know there is enough (a lot) of empty space between them.

Now google, compare several different sources, and learn how they stay together.
Not how you imagine it, but how experiments show.
They don't wander faster they simply create a chain reaction from the energy applied.

There is no empty space. Everything is attached.

It's like having a container of compressed spoingeballs and taking them as an analogy of molecules.
No free space between those sponge balls as they take up all space.


All you need to start off a chain reaction is to apply pressure to one or allow it to expand by taking away pressure upon one.

An example.
Imagine the container full of super compressed atmospheric sponge balls.
Outside of that container are  much less compressed atmospheric sponge balls.

You now open the container to allow decompression of those internal super compressed sponge balls.
Let's say just one is allowed to decompress before the lid is placed back on.
This will cause a massive expansion of it into the less compressed external sponge balls which will create a chain reaction push or compression into those waiting balls directly in front and around that expanding/decompressing ball which decompresses them, which decompresses those near them...and so on until that expansion to compression to decompression is finished.

That's it.
There's no wandering molecules just jumping into free space, because to have free space would be to never exist in the first place.














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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #219 on: June 30, 2020, 01:21:51 AM »
I'm not going to accept something from you if I don't believe it.
And anything that I provide that refutes your model you typically wont believe.
So there is no point in me wasting time to make a picture for you to ignore it.

Then back out and stop pretending I'm not trying to explain.

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Stash

  • 7789
  • I am car!
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #220 on: June 30, 2020, 03:04:27 AM »
There's no wandering molecules just jumping into free space, because to have free space would be to never exist in the first place.

"...because to have free space would be to never exist in the first place." Interesting. Why?

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Macarios

  • 2081
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #221 on: June 30, 2020, 04:46:29 AM »
An example.
Imagine the container full of super compressed atmospheric sponge balls.
Outside of that container are  much less compressed atmospheric sponge balls.

And when you walk you compress those "atmospheric sponge balls".
At some point they are so compressed that you can't walk any further.
If you lift your feet they will push you back to where you started.
:D

EDIT: Will those "more compressed sponges" have smaller sponge bubbles in them, or their matter will reduce in quantity?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 04:57:06 AM by Macarios »
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #222 on: June 30, 2020, 03:17:20 PM »
It's like having a container of compressed spoingeballs and taking them as an analogy of molecules.
No free space between those sponge balls as they take up all space.
And no agitation of them. No free movement of them to mix up the gas as clearly observed. Instead it acts more like a solid or a liquid, with no significant free space between them.

Then back out and stop pretending I'm not trying to explain.
Like I have told you before, while you continue to spout such nonsense with no justification at all, I will continue to refute it.
If you want me to stop, then either justify the massive issues with your model, clearly addressing all the evidence which shows quite clearly that things like pull and free space do exist, or stop claiming they don't.

I have provided quite clear evidence of both pull and free space, based upon every day observations.
And what is your response? Just dismiss it and telling me to go away.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #223 on: June 30, 2020, 03:28:53 PM »
I'm not going to accept something from you if I don't believe it.
And anything that I provide that refutes your model you typically wont believe.
So there is no point in me wasting time to make a picture for you to ignore it.

Then back out and stop pretending I'm not trying to explain.
I still think that the simple answer to "How does air stay on earth?" is the best. - gravity!