Murder of George Floyd

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Lorddave

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1140 on: September 15, 2020, 01:52:48 PM »
I would like to think (or hope, anyway) that we still have time to get our shit together. I would prefer no more ambushes, and no more unjustified killings, etc, etc.

Honestly, I'm not sure.  We need a national voice at this point to stop it but it may be too late.  The people who want to burn and kill shit are in full force.

Obama had the Furguson riots and that was stopped there.  Trump had well... this, and America is burning.  Or at least bits of it. 

Some days I feel like this is "If Trump were president while Obama was, what would he do" because he's dealing with alot of similar issues.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1141 on: September 15, 2020, 03:22:15 PM »
I worry that Biden won't have as strong a voice as Obama did. He's just too fricking old. I think he will put some experts back in the government, especially where the coronavirus is concerned, and hopefully he will put decent people in other position, but I don't know if he has what it takes to calm everyone down.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1142 on: September 15, 2020, 04:56:53 PM »
If Trump could at least stop fanning the flames and start leading by example, then that could calm things down quite a lot.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 04:58:35 PM by markjo »
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1143 on: September 15, 2020, 08:55:14 PM »
If Trump could at least stop fanning the flames and start leading by example, then that could calm things down quite a lot.

Good luck when he sees all the chaos as advantageous to his re-election chances

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Crouton

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1144 on: September 23, 2020, 10:46:21 PM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54275346

Not sure how this decision seems from a police officer's perspective.

From my perspective as a civilian it sort of looks like armed gunmen can kick down your door and murder you and there's nothing you can do about it.  You can't call the police, they are the police.  If you attempt to defend yourself then you will be subject to a far longer sentence than these officers did.
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Lorddave

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1145 on: September 23, 2020, 11:35:26 PM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54275346

Not sure how this decision seems from a police officer's perspective.

From my perspective as a civilian it sort of looks like armed gunmen can kick down your door and murder you and there's nothing you can do about it.  You can't call the police, they are the police.  If you attempt to defend yourself then you will be subject to a far longer sentence than these officers did.

Yep.  Because one of them may have had Drugs.  Not guns.  Not violent criminal activity: drugs.

Remember folks: being a cop means murder is ok.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1146 on: September 23, 2020, 11:47:17 PM »
I don't get why they can't have rubber bullets. At least if you make a mistake the consequences are unlikely to be fatal. I mean even if you're a bad guy getting shot at with rubber bullets is likely to put you down. The death penalty is for the judicial system to decide. Not some trigger happy moron cop


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markjo

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1147 on: September 24, 2020, 06:53:56 AM »
Yep.  Because one of them may have had Drugs.  Not guns.  Not violent criminal activity: drugs.
It's not uncommon for drug dealers to have guns.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1148 on: September 24, 2020, 08:48:39 AM »
I don't get why they can't have rubber bullets. At least if you make a mistake the consequences are unlikely to be fatal. I mean even if you're a bad guy getting shot at with rubber bullets is likely to put you down. The death penalty is for the judicial system to decide. Not some trigger happy moron cop

Because if you put shots on target, and target doesnt die, there is a chance he could fire back.
Typcially the 1st shot is not an accident.
Typically more than 1 round is fired.

The issue is the willynilly trigger happy cops.
Or the jittery fearful of everything cops.
Or the plain down right racists looking to get paid to kill.

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Lorddave

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1150 on: October 28, 2020, 03:06:38 PM »
https://twitter.com/ChabadLubavitch/status/1321450173994815490?s=20
Quote
Orthodox Jews violently attacked by mob @ BLM protest last night in Philly. They told protesters they were there to show solidarity. Mob shouted anti Semitic & racist hate as they assaulted victims. Spoke to victim, says he feared for his life. This needs to be condemned by all!

You can watch the video on Twitter. It wasn't all that violent, just some shoving, but it was definitely antisemitic.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1151 on: April 14, 2021, 01:22:31 PM »
We are now getting around to trial.  The defense has an interesting argument.  They seem to be claiming that the cop standing on his neck had a minimal role in his dying.  That was merely coincidental.  It was mostly due to heart disease, meth and possibly a stomach tumor, also possible carbon monoxide poisoning.

They made this argument with a straight face.
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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1152 on: April 14, 2021, 01:34:51 PM »
he has a right to an attorney.
the attorney's due diligence is to defend his client.

BUT
the jury, the prosecution, judge, and the DA and a duty to accept the nonsense/ prosecute to the full extent of the law.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1153 on: April 14, 2021, 02:20:30 PM »
he has a right to an attorney.
the attorney's due diligence is to defend his client.

BUT
the jury, the prosecution, judge, and the DA and a duty to accept the nonsense/ prosecute to the full extent of the law.

An attorney that could sleep at night wouldn't spin utter BS but see to it his clients rights are respected an upheld. It should not be acceptable for an attoney to lie or be deceitful to try and get their client to evade responsibility or consequences to their actions

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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1154 on: April 14, 2021, 03:24:21 PM »
i wouldn't be surpised if paid for by some WS group like Rittenhouse was.
Surprised he's not a PD union attorney.
common defenses - we feared for our lives, he was resisting etc etc

funny that Chauvin's department has pretty much cut him loose.



https://patch.com/minnesota/southwestminneapolis/who-eric-nelson-derek-chauvins-attorny-floyds-death


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markjo

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1155 on: April 14, 2021, 05:12:01 PM »
An attorney that could sleep at night wouldn't spin utter BS but see to it his clients rights are respected an upheld.
It's the defense attorney's job to introduce reasonable doubt.  Also remember that there is no attorney worth their salt that can't argue both sides of a case.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lorddave

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1156 on: April 14, 2021, 08:53:54 PM »
he has a right to an attorney.
the attorney's due diligence is to defend his client.

BUT
the jury, the prosecution, judge, and the DA and a duty to accept the nonsense/ prosecute to the full extent of the law.

An attorney that could sleep at night wouldn't spin utter BS but see to it his clients rights are respected an upheld. It should not be acceptable for an attoney to lie or be deceitful to try and get their client to evade responsibility or consequences to their actions

If your clint says "I'm innocent.  Prove it." You gotta do something.  Even if you murdered a baby on the stage of a world wide televised concert.... Someone still has to defend you if you plead not-guilty.  Just means their job is really fucking hard.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1157 on: April 15, 2021, 01:38:12 AM »
Hence why a lot of public defenders skip it and offer straight deals.

Low hanging fruit.
The system sucks and is "rigged".

Side note
Police yourselves if you dont like it.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1158 on: April 15, 2021, 07:18:21 AM »
Public defenders don't skip it and offer deals. The plea bargain offers come from the prosecution, not the defense. The state offers plea bargains because it costs less than a trial, and the DA gets to count it as a win for their office.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1159 on: April 15, 2021, 08:11:14 AM »
Public defenders don't skip it and offer deals. The plea bargain offers come from the prosecution, not the defense. The state offers plea bargains because it costs less than a trial, and the DA gets to count it as a win for their office.

Correct
But
Although DA offers the plea, INSTEAD of fighting it, the "defense" pushes the plea.
Its a legal shake down and extortion.

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JJA

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1160 on: April 15, 2021, 10:53:47 AM »
Public defenders don't skip it and offer deals. The plea bargain offers come from the prosecution, not the defense. The state offers plea bargains because it costs less than a trial, and the DA gets to count it as a win for their office.

Exactly. It's why the US and Japan have a 99% conviction rate once charges are brought. Plead guilty or go to trial and get punished by a whole lot of extra time.

Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1161 on: April 15, 2021, 11:52:33 AM »
johnoliver had a good segment on this.
some lose their jobs if they miss too much due to court or jail or whatever or bail so pay the fine!
and the judge, DA, court appointed defense are all paid by that same money machine.

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markjo

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1162 on: April 15, 2021, 01:01:51 PM »
and the judge, DA, court appointed defense are all paid by that same money machine.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that any of those people work on commission.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1163 on: April 15, 2021, 02:24:26 PM »
and the judge, DA, court appointed defense are all paid by that same money machine.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that any of those people work on commission.
They all get paid though, don't they?  I think that was his point.
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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1164 on: April 15, 2021, 03:01:20 PM »
and they get paid more if they arrest more

gee, how does that racist figure come in to play?
35/ 12?

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/debtors-prison/462378/
Historically, the phrase debtors’ prison refers to any detention facility in which people are incarcerated for their failure to pay a debt. Today, the “debts” that lead to incarceration take the form of monetary penalties established and enforced by municipal courts. For many people throughout the St. Louis region, the nightmare of debtors’ prison is a recurring one: Each time a payment or court date is missed, the court issues another warrant, and the individual is subject to arrest, jail, and additional fines and court fees.

Despite prior attempts on the federal level and across the country to prevent the profound injustice of locking people in cages because they are too poor to pay a debt, the practice persists every day. The racially segregated landscape of the St. Louis metropolitan area, and the prevalence of racially homogenous debtors’ prisons within its borders, are not a coincidence.

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markjo

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1165 on: April 15, 2021, 03:16:30 PM »
and the judge, DA, court appointed defense are all paid by that same money machine.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that any of those people work on commission.
They all get paid though, don't they?  I think that was his point.
Yes, it's called a salary.  They get paid the same regardless of how many or how few cases get assigned.

For profit jails are a different story.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1166 on: April 15, 2021, 03:56:15 PM »
and the judge, DA, court appointed defense are all paid by that same money machine.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that any of those people work on commission.
They all get paid though, don't they?  I think that was his point.
Yes, it's called a salary.  They get paid the same regardless of how many or how few cases get assigned.

For profit jails are a different story.

Two separate items

They can afford MORE salary if their budgets and funding got bigger.

Debtors prison is the result of inability to pay the shake down fines.
Fines are still there at the level currently being discussed.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1167 on: April 16, 2021, 07:02:52 AM »
and the judge, DA, court appointed defense are all paid by that same money machine.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that any of those people work on commission.
They all get paid though, don't they?  I think that was his point.
Yes, it's called a salary.  They get paid the same regardless of how many or how few cases get assigned.

For profit jails are a different story.

Two separate items

They can afford MORE salary if their budgets and funding got bigger.

Debtors prison is the result of inability to pay the shake down fines.
Fines are still there at the level currently being discussed.
But that would then be counter productive for the goal of more salary, because incarcerating people is more expensive than attempting to collect debt from people, thus reducing the amount of money available for salaries of judges, DAs, and public defense attorneys.  Or was that not your point?
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1168 on: April 16, 2021, 07:15:44 AM »
They get free labour and fed grants
So its still profitable.
And they seize cars and homes.

Its very profitbale.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Murder of George Floyd
« Reply #1169 on: April 16, 2021, 09:11:10 AM »
They get free labour and fed grants
So its still profitable.
And they seize cars and homes.

Its very profitbale.
The prisons do, which are run by companies, not local governments.  Local governments are the ones that pay the salaries of judges, DAs, and public defenders, depending on what level of court we are talking about.  They also pay the companies to house the inmates, so the more people they incarcerate, the more money it costs them.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.