Eratosthenes experiment

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Eratosthenes experiment
« on: May 26, 2020, 06:48:49 AM »

How does this not disprove a flat earth?

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sandokhan

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 07:12:36 AM »
The complete demolition of the Eratosthenes myth: new radical chronology comes to the rescue.

http://www.ilya.it/chrono/pages/erdmessungen.htm

Uwe Topper, one of the best European new chronologists:

"In school we learned that Eratosthenes (276-194 B.C.), director of the great library at Alexandria, was the first to determine the size of the earth. Yet his alleged method does not convince me at all.
The following procedure is described: He assumed that Alexandria and Syene (now Assuan on the Nile before the first cataract) are situated on the same meridian and are exactly 5000 stades distant from each other. The latitudinal difference is given as 7°12' which is accurate. But these towns don't lie on the same meridian - Alexandria is 30° eastern longitude and Syene is 33°. The difference of 3° amounts to more than 300 km. We don't know how Eratosthenes determined these towns are 5000 stades distant (which is close enough). From these data Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of our planet to be 252,000 stades, which is astonishingly correct. The stade used in Egypt is 157,5 m, and thus the earth's circumference 39,690 km which is fairly correct (today a bit more than 40,000). It means roundabout 110 km distance between two parallels (today 111 km).

The latitudinal difference between Alexandria and Syene, 7°12', is exactly a 50th part of the whole circumference. If this had been applied correctly in the calculation, the circumference would have come to 250,000 stades, or 2000 stades short of what Eratosthenes assumed. This suggests he knew the outcome in advance and only looked for measures that let to the right result.

My doubts are reinforced if we consider the length of the stade: 40,000 stades make the radius of the earth, and 1° of the earth's circumference equals exactly 700 stades. Thus I conclude the stade is a measure deducted from the size of the earth. If Eratosthenes applied it to measure and calculate the earth, he used the knowledge that people had used before him. And he had to twist his mathematical elaboration a bit to arrive at the same result.


Then came Eratosthenes. His books are not preserved, only some contents of the "Book of Dimensions" are quoted in Galen, and other parts mentioned in the "Geographica" of Strabo. Although Eratosthenes divides the circumference into 60 parts, he does not use this calculation, but transforms his measures into stades (see also Harley and Woodward, vol.I, p.155). One 60th of the circumference amounts to exactly 4200 stades, 42 being the typical sacred number of the Egyptians. The tropic given by Eratosthenes is situated 16,800 stades from the equator, that is 4/60th of the circle, which we would today describe as 24° northern latitude.

In order to get more exact results, Eratosthenes applied two more manipulations.
First, a group of royal geodesists measured the distance from Syene to Meroe in the Sudan (today: Dar Shendy on the Nile), which came to 5000 stades. In this case the longitudinal difference is only 2°, but it is not negligible. And how could they really measure this great distance (about 800 km) over very rough mountainous surface? Only trigonometry would have served the job, but its use is denied by Miller (p.24). He talks about measuring by steps or with a rod or a rope, always reducing the outcome to the meridian. Let us assume that this might be probable. This suggests Syene is the center of Egyptian geodetics.

The third improvement need not be taken seriously: Sailors told him that the distance between Rhodes and Alexandria is about 4000 to 5000 stades. That was not an improvement at all. We know that it is nearly impossible to determine the distance a ship has sailed. Eratosthenes neglected the longitudinal difference of 2° and probably used measurements of latitude when he implied a distance of 3750 stades, as Miller says (p.27). Posidonius, who died about 150 years later, chose 4000 stades and arrived at a similarly exact result.

Again, this tells me the result was there first, and the way of obtaining it was a pure guess.
According to Miller (p.16) recent scholars take this view. They speak of Eratosthenes as "unconsciously" arriving at his results, or borrowing them from another learned culture.

For me the question remains: where did Eratosthenes get his knowledge? That he himself was not learned is highlighted by other data given in his texts (Miller p.5): the diameter of the sun is three times that of the earth, its distance is 51 diameters of the earth, and the moon is 19,5 earth-radii away. All figures are far wrong.

So if he could not estimate himself, not even nearly, how did he arrive at an exact result for the earth's circumference?

The problem of the incorrect data used by Eratosthenes, especially the 3° difference in longitude, is brushed aside by Miller's remarks (p.6 and p.25), that they are corrected by giving the latitudinal difference between Alexandria and Syene as 7° 1/7 . This is not said in the Greek text, but only surmised by Miller defending Eratosthenes. Miller says Eratosthenes was able to correct his wrong longitudes by the inexact difference of the latitudes and thus find the real circumference of the earth. Committing two mistakes and arriving at the correct result means that he knew the result in advance."


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JJA

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 08:51:59 AM »
The complete demolition of the Eratosthenes myth: new radical chronology comes to the rescue.

Luckily with modern technology we can, and have replicated this experiment countless times.

In fact, you can do it today if you wanted to, just find a friend somewhere a few thousand km away and go measure the sun and do some math. I've done this myself with a friend on another continent.

Throwing doubt on what was done 2000 years ago? I suppose. But you can't doubt that it can be done now, easily, repeatably.

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2020, 10:58:53 AM »
Eratosthenes experiment does not prove a round earth, it presumes a round earth as an axiom such that it can find the supposed diameter.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Stash

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2020, 12:45:15 PM »
Uwe Topper, one of the best European new chronologists:

"...From these data Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of our planet to be 252,000 stades, which is astonishingly correct. The stade used in Egypt is 157,5 m, and thus the earth's circumference 39,690 km which is fairly correct (today a bit more than 40,000). It means roundabout 110 km distance between two parallels (today 111 km)..."

It seems that your best European new chronologist is a Globe Earther as he stated that Eratosthenes' calculated circumference is "astonishingly correct".




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JJA

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2020, 01:08:35 PM »
Eratosthenes experiment does not prove a round earth, it presumes a round earth as an axiom such that it can find the supposed diameter.

How does that make any difference in the end even if it was true, which I'm don't agree with? 

But it doesn't matter. The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.

Unless you want to argue Electromagnetic Acceleration, or some other bendy light hypothesis.

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2020, 02:20:01 PM »
Eratosthenes experiment does not prove a round earth, it presumes a round earth as an axiom such that it can find the supposed diameter.

How does that make any difference in the end even if it was true, which I'm don't agree with? 

But it doesn't matter. The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.

Unless you want to argue Electromagnetic Acceleration, or some other bendy light hypothesis.
Bendy light? I haven't heard of that. Are you referring to relativity?


Quote
The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.
Show your work.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2020, 02:22:33 PM »
And it matters because its circular logic to supposedly include what you are proving in your axioms. It shows nothing. You actually have to show that "you can't make geometry fit any other way" which is not the case mathematically. And as you know, math is math.

So waiting on you to prove your assertion...
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Stash

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2020, 02:26:30 PM »
And it matters because its circular logic to supposedly include what you are proving in your axioms. It shows nothing. You actually have to show that "you can't make geometry fit any other way" which is not the case mathematically. And as you know, math is math.

So waiting on you to prove your assertion...

Great Circle Navigation seems to assert a specific shape of the earth. And all of the worlds transport of goods and people rely on it to get from point A to point B via the shortest route:


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JackBlack

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2020, 03:22:55 PM »
How does this not disprove a flat earth?
Erastothenes alone doesn't disprove a FE.
Earth was known to be round before this experiment, with this experiment just determining the size of Earth.

By using just 2 measurements you have an unsolved problem.
You need to determine the height of the sun and the curvature of Earth.

In general (and using radians):
You have a point directly below the sun, where the angle of elevation to the sun is pi/2, with the sun a distance of h above it.
You have another point, some distance l along the surface of Earth, where the sun is at an angle of elevation a.
This allows us to construct a right angle triangle where one side is of height h2, and you have an angle of b.
From this we can also get angle c, such that a+c=b.
Note that for an inside out Earth (with us on the inside of Earth), c is negative.
There is also the horizontal distance d between the 2 points.
And the difference in height dh of the sun between the 2 points.

c is also the angle at the centre of Earth.
That means c*R=l.
Or to express it in terms of curvature where C=1/r, c/C=l, c=l*C

This means b=a+l*C.

The horizontal distance is given as d=R*sin(c), noting that if c is negative and R is negative, this is still positive.
Again, to express in terms of curvature this is d=sin(l*C)/C.
If C is 0, then it is simply d=l (otherwise you have pesky divide by 0 errors, but this is also the limit as C approaches 0)).

dh can also be given with a similar term, dh=R*(1-cos(c)).
Note that in this case if R is negative and c is negative, then dh is negative, as cos(c) will still be positive and less than 1.
Again, to express this in terms of the curvature we have dh=(1-cos(l*C))/C.

This now means that h2=h+dh=h+(1-cos(l*C))/C

So now we have our right angle triangle, with an angle of b, the opposite side of h2 and the adjacent side of d.
i.e. tan(b)=h2/d
i.e. tan(a+l*C)=[h+(1-cos(l*C))/C]/[sin(l*C)/C]
Noting that if C=0, then the equation is better expressed as:
tan(a)=h/l, again to avoid the divide by 0 errors and also is the limit as C approaches 0.

And if h is very large, such that the 2 lines are basically parallel, it instead simplifies as b=~pi/2, thus from
b=a+l*C
we get pi/2=a+l*C


This is an equation with 4 terms, a, l, C and h.
From the experiment 2 are know, a and l.
C and h are unknown and varying one will vary the other.

So in order to solve it, you need to know one of them.

And if you have limits on one you can place limits on the other.
It was known that h is very large, many times the size of Earth and thus practically infinite. This allows us to use h=infinity as an approximation and get pi/2=a+l*C


So you either need to use something else, like observations of the sun remaining roughly the same size throughout the day and regardless of location to establish the sun is many times the distance to Earth and thus h is approximately infinity.
Or alternatively, you need more points, which are not symmetric (e.g. if you had a point 100 m away from the sub-solar point, it is pointless to go to another point 100 m below the sub solar point, as they give you the same a and l).

With just a single point you have a single equation, with 2 unknowns, h and C, and 2 knowns, a1 and l1.
With 2 points, you have 2 equations, with 2 unknowns, h and C, and 4 knowns, a1, a2, l1 and l2.
You can then solve those 2 simultaneous equations and determine what h and C are, or at least put limits on them.

So Eratosthenes doesn't prove a round Earth, but the observed angle of elevation to the sun or any celestial object does.

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JJA

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2020, 03:31:59 PM »
Eratosthenes experiment does not prove a round earth, it presumes a round earth as an axiom such that it can find the supposed diameter.

How does that make any difference in the end even if it was true, which I'm don't agree with? 

But it doesn't matter. The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.

Unless you want to argue Electromagnetic Acceleration, or some other bendy light hypothesis.
Bendy light? I haven't heard of that. Are you referring to relativity?

No, I'm talking about this.

https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Electromagnetic+Accelerator

Quote
The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.
Show your work.

It's as simple as this.

You can make as many measurements of the suns shadow across the Earth as you want, and they all fit a globe mathematical model. Or the position of Polaris in the following images.  Any point will work.



If you take those same measurements and try and do it on a flat earth model, you can't get  them to match.



You can also check caulations based on the Earth's size, the Sun's distance and your position in the following link. it will calculate the size of the shadow for any time, anywhere on the planet, and is always accurate.  If the math was wrong, it wouldn't work.

https://planetcalc.com/1875/


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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2020, 06:12:02 PM »
Eratosthenes experiment does not prove a round earth, it presumes a round earth as an axiom such that it can find the supposed diameter.

How does that make any difference in the end even if it was true, which I'm don't agree with? 

But it doesn't matter. The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.

Unless you want to argue Electromagnetic Acceleration, or some other bendy light hypothesis.
Bendy light? I haven't heard of that. Are you referring to relativity?

No, I'm talking about this.

https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Electromagnetic+Accelerator
That was written by the round earth lot over at TFES.org. Never the less, I breath a sigh of relief. I was thinking you were proposing something crazy like that space and geometry itself curves to fit your observations since your model does not match them without it.

Quote
Quote
The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.
Show your work.

It's as simple as this.

You can make as many measurements of the suns shadow across the Earth as you want, and they all fit a globe mathematical model. Or the position of Polaris in the following images.  Any point will work.



If you take those same measurements and try and do it on a flat earth model, you can't get  them to match.



You can also check caulations based on the Earth's size, the Sun's distance and your position in the following link. it will calculate the size of the shadow for any time, anywhere on the planet, and is always accurate.  If the math was wrong, it wouldn't work.

https://planetcalc.com/1875/



I'm sorry, the claim was this would not work on any other geometry. You have not shown this. You have instead shown something completely irrelevant about polaris. Furthermore, there is a flat earth model consistent with this, showing a direct disproof by example of your claim, which still is unfounded.

If math is math, it should be simple enough to show proof that this is not possible in any other geometry. If you do so, you have my word that I will quit my position in the Society and leave this whole flat earth stuff behind me.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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rabinoz

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2020, 06:21:24 PM »
That's no problem to the smart ;D people at TFES.org!  They've refined their Electromagnetic Acceleration to a fine art.

Now the sheer magic ;D of their EA Theory Hypothesis magically bends light in exactly the right way, left, right, up or down, to perfectly fit everything observed.

Read all about this magical phenomena in:
Quote from: TFES.ORG Wiki
Electromagnetic Acceleration
The theory of the Electromagnetic Accelerator (EA) states that there is a mechanism to the universe that pulls, pushes, or deflects light upwards. All light curves upwards over very long distances. The Electromagnetic Accelerator has been adopted as a modern alternative to the perspective theory proposed in Earth Not a Globe.

Sunrise and sunset happen as result of these upwardly curving light rays.

The above illustration depicts rays from the Sun which intersect with the earth. Other rays not depicted may miss the earth and make a "u-turn" back into space.

Contents

  • Theory
         1.1 Approximation
         1.2 Articles of Interest

  • Terrestrial
       2.1 Clouds Lit From Underside
       2.2 Horizon Dip

  • Celestial
       3.1 Nearside Always Seen
       3.2 Lunar Phases
       3.2.1 Moon Position Table
       3.3 Lunar Eclipse

  • Evidence
       4.1 Celestial Sphere
       4.1.1 Projected onto a Dome
       4.2 Moon Tilt Illusion
       4.3 Topics

It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe.
   

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rabinoz

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2020, 06:28:26 PM »
You have instead shown something completely irrelevant about polaris.
What difference dies it make whether it's the Sun or Polaris. Both are claimed to be close to the Earth, about 5000 km above.

Quote from: John Davis
Furthermore, there is a flat earth model consistent with this, showing a direct disproof by example of your claim, which still is unfounded.
If there is a "flat earth model consistent with this" why don't you describe it in detail or, at least give a link to a detailed description?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2020, 07:17:57 PM »
Quote
It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.

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Stash

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2020, 08:08:51 PM »
Quote
It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.

What's to make me think that light doesn't travel in straight lines? That's common scientific knowledge. To refute that, you need to come up with some extraordinary evidence to the contrary. What do you have?

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rabinoz

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2020, 08:24:36 PM »
Quote
It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.
But your EA hypothesis has no logical basis.

On the other hand, all the evidence available on light suggests that light only bends when passing from one medium to another of different refractive index.
Your EA has light bending 75° or so! Would you care to tell us the refractive index of the medium surrounding the Sun to bend light that much?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2020, 08:30:55 PM »
Quote
It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.

What's to make me think that light doesn't travel in straight lines? That's common scientific knowledge. To refute that, you need to come up with some extraordinary evidence to the contrary. What do you have?

'It's common knowlegde' is hardly evidence for the straightness of light. Maybe you can tell me what experiments the Ancient Greeks did on light's straightnes before assuming the straightness of light for the globe model.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:17:14 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2020, 09:57:08 PM »
Quote
It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.

What's to make me think that light doesn't travel in straight lines? That's common scientific knowledge. To refute that, you need to come up with some extraordinary evidence to the contrary. What do you have?
That the whole round earth hypothesis seems to hinge on the idea that straight is not straight. And yet when we say it is flat -- By golly it happens to be straight.

We have an entrenched view that will in the next two years become enlightened by unfortunate circumstance to quote one master.

Defend your view, for it happens not to be silly. Lord knows we had to before the media took a shine on us.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 09:59:06 PM by John Davis »
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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2020, 09:57:46 PM »
Show that "any other" geometry can not hold these axioms, and I will show you the next.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 09:59:31 PM by John Davis »
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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2020, 10:00:59 PM »
Also bendy light is as ignorant as saying gravity happens.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Stash

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2020, 10:05:05 PM »
Quote
It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.

What's to make me think that light doesn't travel in straight lines? That's common scientific knowledge. To refute that, you need to come up with some extraordinary evidence to the contrary. What do you have?

'It's common knowlegde' is hardly evidence for the straightness of light. Maybe you can tell me what experiments the Ancient Greeks did on light's straightnesa before assuming the straightness of light for the globe model.

We don't have to go all the way back 2000+ years to see that light is straight. You can experiment today using a test that little kids are taught:



So what experiments do you have, old or new, that show an EA bendy light?

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Stash

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2020, 10:06:13 PM »
Show that "any other" geometry can not hold these axioms, and I will show you the next.

Go ahead, show away.

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2020, 10:09:36 PM »
Quote
We don't have to go all the way back 2000+ years to see that light is straight. You can experiment today using a test that little kids are taught:
So since when looking out your backyard window, your realize terra appears flat - then the earth looks flat - and then it is? -- and then so light is?! Quite a liberty.

Light being straight is a novel conception that most novel conceptions disagree with.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:14:37 PM by John Davis »
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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2020, 10:11:04 PM »
Show that "any other" geometry can not hold these axioms, and I will show you the next.

Go ahead, show away.
I made no claim. If some one cleverer than I snowed this idea false, I stand down. Show the "other geometry" you speak of.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2020, 10:15:34 PM »
Prove that no other geometries have this trait.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Stash

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2020, 10:29:56 PM »
Quote
We don't have to go all the way back 2000+ years to see that light is straight. You can experiment today using a test that little kids are taught:
So since when looking out your backyard window, your realize terra appears flat - then the earth looks flat - and then it is? -- and then so light is?! Quite a liberty.

Light being straight is a novel conception that most novel conceptions disagree with.

Do tell of these disagreeable novel conceptions.

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JackBlack

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2020, 01:28:51 AM »
Never the less, I breath a sigh of relief. I was thinking you were proposing something crazy like that space and geometry itself curves to fit your observations since your model does not match them without it.
You mean like your non-flat flat Earth model?
But I would say having light bend to fit the observation since the model doesn't match without it and with no justification for why it should bend to be pretty damning to a model as well.

So far, it is only the RE model that matches reality without massive manipulation of space or the way light propagates.

I'm sorry, the claim was this would not work on any other geometry. You have not shown this.
He demonstrated that the general observation, the angle of elevation to a celestial object, when taken across multiple points, does not work on a FE.

there is a flat earth model consistent with this
Care to provide that?

I made no claim.
Yes you did, see above.

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.
You mean putting a theory, which actually matches reality and allows us to make predictions, with a bunch of wild speculation which relies upon special directions and the like, which doesn't even have a formula to predict anything?

We don't have to go all the way back 2000+ years to see that light is straight. You can experiment today using a test that little kids are taught:
The problem he is trying to get at is how do you know it isn't just curving ever so slightly, too small to be detected by that simple experiment, but which over a long enough distance will result in a significant change in angle?

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JJA

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Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2020, 03:46:13 AM »
No, I'm talking about this.

https://theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Electromagnetic+Accelerator
That was written by the round earth lot over at TFES.org. Never the less, I breath a sigh of relief. I was thinking you were proposing something crazy like that space and geometry itself curves to fit your observations since your model does not match them without it.

It's still on your Wiki.

First, if you want to call Einsteins theories "crazy" you will need to provide evidence that they do not work. In fact, they have been proven to work in every experiment ever carried out, matching predictions exactly.

Second, what does Relativity have anything to do with the models provided in this discussion? None of them relies on anything but simple geometry. Please go down that rabbit hole in another thread.

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The only shape of the Earth that fits the data is round. You can't make the geometry fit any other way.
Show your work.

It's as simple as this.

You can make as many measurements of the suns shadow across the Earth as you want, and they all fit a globe mathematical model. Or the position of Polaris in the following images.  Any point will work.



If you take those same measurements and try and do it on a flat earth model, you can't get  them to match.



You can also check caulations based on the Earth's size, the Sun's distance and your position in the following link. it will calculate the size of the shadow for any time, anywhere on the planet, and is always accurate.  If the math was wrong, it wouldn't work.

https://planetcalc.com/1875/

I'm sorry, the claim was this would not work on any other geometry. You have not shown this. You have instead shown something completely irrelevant about polaris.

I have shown exactly this, you just didn't understand it and got confused over it being Polaris. Read it again, it's simple geometry. It doesn't matter if a point in the sky is a distant Sun or a star, the angles it makes with objects on the ground do not match on any shape other than a globe.  I've given you exactly the proof you asked for, you can draw straight lines from all the points on a globe earth to a single source, but on a flat earth nothing lines up.

Furthermore, there is a flat earth model consistent with this, showing a direct disproof by example of your claim, which still is unfounded.

Show me. Please provide a link to your proof or stop saying you have one.  Take the angles shown in the first image I linked and project them onto a flat plane and show me where the source of the light is coming from. I am guessing you can't.

If math is math, it should be simple enough to show proof that this is not possible in any other geometry. If you do so, you have my word that I will quit my position in the Society and leave this whole flat earth stuff behind me.

I've already given you an example, look at the images above. Can I see a copy of your resignation letter then?

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: Eratosthenes experiment
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2020, 06:42:32 AM »
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It's highly ingenious but no matter what they claim it is simply a hypothesis with no evidence other than that it "explains away" a lot of the observations that support the Globe

The only reason to say that is if you had no positive evidence that light traveled in straight lines, hence pitting one 'hypothesis' against another.

What's to make me think that light doesn't travel in straight lines? That's common scientific knowledge. To refute that, you need to come up with some extraordinary evidence to the contrary. What do you have?

'It's common knowlegde' is hardly evidence for the straightness of light. Maybe you can tell me what experiments the Ancient Greeks did on light's straightnesa before assuming the straightness of light for the globe model.

We don't have to go all the way back 2000+ years to see that light is straight. You can experiment today using a test that little kids are taught:



So what experiments do you have, old or new, that show an EA bendy light?

So you admit that the experiments done on this subject are insufficient to show how light bends over hundreds or thousands of miles.

That sounds like a hypothesis to me, that light would behave the same at all ranges and scales.

Yes, we do have to go back to when the globe was conceived. If it was derived without any backing for it's fundamental axioms, then it may be a mistaken and fallacious conclusion.