# how does air stay on earth

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#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2020, 10:31:24 PM »

Great Circle routing is the shortest distance between two points on a sphere. Simple as that. A rhumbline is a point-to-point direct line from A to B, e.g., your destination is West, you just go due West.
Let me get this straight.
A great circle on your globe is the shortest distance between two points.

Explain the great and the circle in terms of the shortest distance and explain why another set up is a longer distance.

Also this rhumbline. A point to point, direct line?
Do you mean a point to point convex vertical curved/arced line?

Explain it to me as simple as you can, please.

Notice how the Rhumbline route is longer.
Why would any airline fly this supposed rhumbline.
his supposed great circle and this supposed rhumbline is nothing more than a dupe, to me.

The great circle is actually a point to point flight/navigation that uses no arc in level flight, except for ascent and descent. In my opinion.

It appears to me that the great circle is actually point to point level flight to destinations over a level surface, not a convex curved one.

As for this rhumbline...it appears this is a curved horizontal path around a circle of Earth, likely using the natural cyclonic wind speed, known as the jet stream to aid time and distance verses fuel consumption in the aircraft's favour.

Quote from: Stash
Quote from: Stash
Modern long haul navigation is Great Circle based. Prove me wrong on that.
I'm hoping you can prove yourself right.

Flight Paths and Great Circles—Or Why You Flew Over Greenland

Yeah, this would make zero sense to do on a global Earth.

Quote from: Stash
Quote from: Stash
Your only recourse is this: "Pilots rely on instruments and follow orders" business. What are the instruments based on? I can dig up all of the literature on Initial Guidance Systems and Ring Laser Gyroscopes you want.
They just follow orders? A dear friend of mine is a United Pilot. He wouldn't think too kindly of your unfounded cavalier attitude about what you think his profession entails. Who are you to make such a claim? Do you really think you know more than the people who actually do stuff as opposed to your simply waxing about your alternative reality? Get an ego check.
My ego is fine.

I think not. Considering that you believe you know better than the pilots, physicists, and engineers of the world I would say you're afflicted with serious delusions of grandeur.
It's not about knowing better, it about questioning what's being told and sold to us.
Too many things do not make logical sense so they're getting questioned and disbelieved until real proof can come from it.

Up to now I see no real proof of anything like that.

#### JackBlack

• 20584
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2020, 01:33:18 AM »
You are yet to provide any logical thoughts from your side.
Then leave it at that.
I'll leave it at that when you stop making your insane claims, or when you start actually justifying them. Until then I will continue to refute them, even when you ignore me.

Again, you claim that your atmosphere magically expands and freezes into a dome. This contradicts everything that is known about how the atmosphere and gases and matter in general works and even contradicts your own claims.

As matter solidifies from a gas, it reduces in volume, not increases.
Likewise you even claim it is agitation of the molecules which cause them to expand, which would mean when the agitation is removed (e.g. when it cools), it would shrink, not expand.

That means your freezing gases will shrink and can't form an impenetrable dome.

So how do you keep your air in?

#### JJA

• 6791
• Math is math!
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2020, 06:10:08 AM »
You just admitted you don't believe in the Eratosthenes experiment, so why should I waste time explaining it to you? It's explained hundreds of times all over the internet, and if none of that convinces you, my explaining it certainly won't.

Just because I don't believe Eratosthenes performed it does not mean you can't explain it from your side. You have the benefit of telephone and all kinds of ways and means....so simply show me or I'll accept you can't and I'll leave it at that.

The Eratosthenes experiment has been carried out thousands of times.  It's well documented how to do this on the internet, it's done in schools all over the world using the internet. You know very well how it works, I don't need to explain it to you. There are lots of well done books and web pages complete with pictures you can read.

Are you denying that others have carried out his experiment since then? Lets get this straight first.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2020, 09:17:15 AM »

The Eratosthenes experiment has been carried out thousands of times.  It's well documented how to do this on the internet, it's done in schools all over the world using the internet. You know very well how it works, I don't need to explain it to you. There are lots of well done books and web pages complete with pictures you can read.

Are you denying that others have carried out his experiment since then? Lets get this straight first.
You said you need sticks and a friend, a few thousand miles away.

Whatever else you need, just add it in.

Now explain to me how you would go about showing your Earth is a globe and also how big it is.

#### JJA

• 6791
• Math is math!
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2020, 09:32:22 AM »

The Eratosthenes experiment has been carried out thousands of times.  It's well documented how to do this on the internet, it's done in schools all over the world using the internet. You know very well how it works, I don't need to explain it to you. There are lots of well done books and web pages complete with pictures you can read.

Are you denying that others have carried out his experiment since then? Lets get this straight first.
You said you need sticks and a friend, a few thousand miles away.

Whatever else you need, just add it in.

Now explain to me how you would go about showing your Earth is a globe and also how big it is.

Tell me if you think the Eratosthenes method is valid or not.  Are people who perform the experiment today wrong?

Do you understand the concept of that experiment?

#### Stash

• Ethical Stash
• 13398
• I am car!
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #95 on: June 17, 2020, 11:36:08 AM »

Great Circle routing is the shortest distance between two points on a sphere. Simple as that. A rhumbline is a point-to-point direct line from A to B, e.g., your destination is West, you just go due West.
Let me get this straight.
A great circle on your globe is the shortest distance between two points.

Explain the great and the circle in terms of the shortest distance and explain why another set up is a longer distance.

Also this rhumbline. A point to point, direct line?
Do you mean a point to point convex vertical curved/arced line?

Explain it to me as simple as you can, please.

Notice how the Rhumbline route is longer.
Why would any airline fly this supposed rhumbline.
his supposed great circle and this supposed rhumbline is nothing more than a dupe, to me.

The great circle is actually a point to point flight/navigation that uses no arc in level flight, except for ascent and descent. In my opinion.

It appears to me that the great circle is actually point to point level flight to destinations over a level surface, not a convex curved one.

As for this rhumbline...it appears this is a curved horizontal path around a circle of Earth, likely using the natural cyclonic wind speed, known as the jet stream to aid time and distance verses fuel consumption in the aircraft's favour.

How would you know anything about the utilization or avoidance of jetstreams by airliners? How do you know jetstreams exist?

#### Amoranemix

• 35
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2020, 01:45:05 PM »
Quote from: Amoranemix 62
Quote from: sceptimatic 63
So far we were able to establish that we are unable provide dimeonsions for hydrogen-helium dome that are consistent with the evidence, a big problem for the flat-earth model.
It's not an issue to me.[10]
I mean you have zero proof of the size of the glo0bal model you adhere to, other than to be told it is what you're told it is.[11]
[10]There is a difference between establishing what the best model for reality is and how to make you believe that model. Based on the information provided by flat-earthers, the best model is the geocentric round earth-model. Why ? Because of TINA : there is no alternative. No flat-earther has to my knowledge, and certainly not you in this thread, provided a coherent flat-earth model that is consistent with the evidence. Your worldview is full of gaping holes.
[11] a) Your reasoning is flawed. The proof I do or do not have says nothing about the validity of the problems with your worldview.
b) I do not base my beliefs on proof, but on reason and evidence, where reason is a procedure for deriving 'new' evidence from existing evidence. No single proof can establish a particular worldview. However, there is plenty of evidence for the geocentric round-earth model.

If you do not see gaping holes as problematic for a worldview, what are your criteria for the quality of a worldview ?

Quote from: Amoranemix 62
Quote from: sceptimatic 63
In the round-earth model there is no such dome, which is perfectly consistent with the evidence.
What evidence is this?
Not what you're told...... what you know.
To my knowledge, all evidence.

Quote from: Amoranemix 62
Quote from: sceptimatic 63
I have pointed out several more problems with the flat-earth model, but those might still be solved. I am not optimistic though.
I don't see any problems.
That you fail to see them, does not imply they don't exist. I and others have pointed out several problems. Are you blind or do you refuse to see ?
We provided an illustration of how to strengthen a hypothesis based on predictions. I had the hypothesis that your worldview is bad. Based on that I made the prediction that you would not solve the problems with your worldview. You validated that prediction. That increases the confidence in my hypothesis.

Quote from: sceptimatic 84
Quote from: JJA
From your own explorations. Don't copy and paste some other work.
I don't have a map of the flat Earth that is a proof of anything.
Sceptics require something you can't provide : evidence.

Quote from: sceptimatic 84
Quote from: JJA
You do that, then I'll tell you how to measure the earth with sticks and shadows.
My hypotheses are just that. I don't pass them off as a reality. I pass my stuff off as my potentials
So, we can choose bettween a working model and a collection of hypotheses.

Quote from: JJA 85
You just admitted you don't believe in the Eratosthenes experiment, so why should I waste time explaining it to you? It's explained hundreds of times all over the internet, and if none of that convinces you, my explaining it certainly won't.

Quote from: JackBlack 86
Again, how does your air freeze into a solid dome which prevents further air from escaping?
If it freezes then it would take up basically no volume and just fly off into space or crash down onto the surface. Over time this would allow all the air to leave.
In the absense of gravity, it should fly of.

?

#### Themightykabool

• 9657
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #97 on: June 17, 2020, 02:00:31 PM »

]It's not about knowing better, it about questioning what's being told and sold to us.
Too many things do not make logical sense so they're getting questioned and disbelieved until real proof can come from it.

Up to now I see no real proof of anything like that.

How very true!
When you saybsomehing that doesnt make sense, we question it.
When you refuse to answer it... well thats no real proof is it now?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 12:03:19 AM by Themightykabool »

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #98 on: June 17, 2020, 09:46:56 PM »

The Eratosthenes experiment has been carried out thousands of times.  It's well documented how to do this on the internet, it's done in schools all over the world using the internet. You know very well how it works, I don't need to explain it to you. There are lots of well done books and web pages complete with pictures you can read.

Are you denying that others have carried out his experiment since then? Lets get this straight first.
You said you need sticks and a friend, a few thousand miles away.

Whatever else you need, just add it in.

Now explain to me how you would go about showing your Earth is a globe and also how big it is.

Tell me if you think the Eratosthenes method is valid or not.  Are people who perform the experiment today wrong?

Do you understand the concept of that experiment?
If I thought it was all correct we wouldn't be arguing it.
You made out you knew lots of ways to prove your Earth then stopped on one particular thing as proof.
So show me how you do it.

You see, you're stuck for doing it yourself that's why you're reliant on reading up on it in an attempt top give you credibility.

I'll accept you have no clue.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #99 on: June 17, 2020, 10:14:44 PM »

How would you know anything about the utilization or avoidance of jetstreams by airliners? How do you know jetstreams exist?
It makes sense to me.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #100 on: June 17, 2020, 10:31:40 PM »

[10]There is a difference between establishing what the best model for reality is and how to make you believe that model. Based on the information provided by flat-earthers, the best model is the geocentric round earth-model. Why ? Because of TINA : there is no alternative.
The best model is the real model. None of us possess that model in terms of physically proving it.
So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.
This means the the global model you adhere to is way down on the list in terms of logical.

Quote from: Amoranemix
No flat-earther has to my knowledge, and certainly not you in this thread, provided a coherent flat-earth model that is consistent with the evidence.

You mean nobody has provided a model that fits the magical one made up for you?

Quote from: Amoranemix
Quote from: Amoranemix 62
Quote from: sceptimatic 63
In the round-earth model there is no such dome, which is perfectly consistent with the evidence.
What evidence is this?
Not what you're told...... what you know.
To my knowledge, all evidence.
What knowledge is this?

Quote from: Amoranemix
Sceptics require something you can't provide : evidence.
Ditto.

Quote from: Amoranemix
Quote from: sceptimatic 84
Quote from: JJA
You do that, then I'll tell you how to measure the earth with sticks and shadows.
My hypotheses are just that. I don't pass them off as a reality. I pass my stuff off as my potentials
So, we can choose bettween a working model and a collection of hypotheses.

A working model is not a reality...but, yes, you can pick and choose...as you have. It does not mean you know it to be reality. It means you are schooled into a belief system which may not be reality.

Quote from: Amoranemix
Quote from: JackBlack 86
Again, how does your air freeze into a solid dome which prevents further air from escaping?
If it freezes then it would take up basically no volume and just fly off into space or crash down onto the surface. Over time this would allow all the air to leave.
In the absense of gravity, it should fly of.
When you fail to understand it from my side, it can do anything you wish.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #101 on: June 17, 2020, 10:35:42 PM »
It's not about knowing better, it about questioning what's being told and sold to us.
Too many things do not make logical sense so they're getting questioned and disbelieved until real proof can come from it.

Up to now I see no real proof of anything like that.

How very true!
When you saybsomehing that doesnt make sense, we question it.
When you refuse to answer it... well thats no real proof is it now?
Feel free to question, as I do.
The issue is in my answers not being accepted as an answer because it doesn't suit.
Whose issue is that?

Also you cannot expect me to answer the same question over and over when you cannot grasp the answer...so on that note....yes I will overlook it.

#### Stash

• Ethical Stash
• 13398
• I am car!
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #102 on: June 17, 2020, 10:59:43 PM »

How would you know anything about the utilization or avoidance of jetstreams by airliners? How do you know jetstreams exist?
It makes sense to me.

The thing is you would have no knowledge of a jetstream if the knowledge of its existence wasn't handed to you by the man on a platter. That's what I don't get. You claim that anyone's knowledge is just stuff they were forced to learn, just in textbooks and whatnot. But then you start describing something that you could only have learned in the same way and that is all of a sudden ok. So where did your knowledge of a jetstream and its impact on air travel come from?

?

#### Themightykabool

• 9657
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #103 on: June 18, 2020, 12:32:49 AM »
It's not about knowing better, it about questioning what's being told and sold to us.
Too many things do not make logical sense so they're getting questioned and disbelieved until real proof can come from it.

Up to now I see no real proof of anything like that.

How very true!
When you saybsomehing that doesnt make sense, we question it.
When you refuse to answer it... well thats no real proof is it now?
Feel free to question, as I do.
The issue is in my answers not being accepted as an answer because it doesn't suit.
Whose issue is that?

Also you cannot expect me to answer the same question over and over when you cannot grasp the answer...so on that note....yes I will overlook it.

Try answering in a different way.
Because youre stuck.
And when youre stuck, we cant move forward.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #104 on: June 18, 2020, 12:41:16 AM »

How would you know anything about the utilization or avoidance of jetstreams by airliners? How do you know jetstreams exist?
It makes sense to me.

The thing is you would have no knowledge of a jetstream if the knowledge of its existence wasn't handed to you by the man on a platter. That's what I don't get. You claim that anyone's knowledge is just stuff they were forced to learn, just in textbooks and whatnot. But then you start describing something that you could only have learned in the same way and that is all of a sudden ok. So where did your knowledge of a jetstream and its impact on air travel come from?
Like I've said time and time and time, again, I accept a lot of stuff but some of it I will have an alternative view of. The jetstream is one of those.

The very reason we are on this forum debating/arguing/musing is a mixture of arguments for and against mainstream indoctrination.

Just remember, I was schooled into forced belief's and I question some of those. This is where i'm at.
You seem to go along with official lines. That's fair enough with me but just remember that I do not follow everything like that, so don't waste too much effort trying to reason that with yourself because you'll never understand it if you've never questioned mainstream schooling..

#### Stash

• Ethical Stash
• 13398
• I am car!
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #105 on: June 18, 2020, 01:18:31 AM »

How would you know anything about the utilization or avoidance of jetstreams by airliners? How do you know jetstreams exist?
It makes sense to me.

The thing is you would have no knowledge of a jetstream if the knowledge of its existence wasn't handed to you by the man on a platter. That's what I don't get. You claim that anyone's knowledge is just stuff they were forced to learn, just in textbooks and whatnot. But then you start describing something that you could only have learned in the same way and that is all of a sudden ok. So where did your knowledge of a jetstream and its impact on air travel come from?
Like I've said time and time and time, again, I accept a lot of stuff but some of it I will have an alternative view of. The jetstream is one of those.

The very reason we are on this forum debating/arguing/musing is a mixture of arguments for and against mainstream indoctrination.

Just remember, I was schooled into forced belief's and I question some of those. This is where i'm at.
You seem to go along with official lines. That's fair enough with me but just remember that I do not follow everything like that, so don't waste too much effort trying to reason that with yourself because you'll never understand it if you've never questioned mainstream schooling..

I definitely have questioned mainstream knowledge. Most of the time more knowledge acquired jived with mainstream schooling. Here's the point. You come across as for any of us who believe in mainstream knowledge is that it's just because we were force fed, don't question, sheep, indoctrinated. You, on the otherhand, are a deep thinker, outside the box, alternative, blah, blah, blah. However, the skepti rule is really:

- If someone accepts mainstream knowledge it's only because it was "handed to them on a platter", they were indoctrinated and never got out.
- If you accept mainstream knowledge it's not because you are indoctrinated, knowledge "handed to you on a platter", but because you happen to agree with it.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #106 on: June 18, 2020, 01:42:18 AM »
I definitely have questioned mainstream knowledge. Most of the time more knowledge acquired jived with mainstream schooling.
Most of the time but not all of the time.

Quote from: Stash
Here's the point. You come across as for any of us who believe in mainstream knowledge is that it's just because we were force fed, don't question, sheep, indoctrinated.
We are all force fed in all ways, shapes and forms.
However, at school we are especially force fed because we have zero choice but to follow a curriculum and be quizzed on the absorbance of it, at the end.
It doesn't mean the learning is all reality based....but if that learning is told to you as being reality based and you accept it without question then later you teach that to others or refuse to accept there could be alternatives to that, then it's basically a case of, do you hold that same view and go with the mass flow, or do you step outside of that box and put your own mind to use in an alternate thought process.

I choose the latter.

Quote from: Stash
You, on the otherhand, are a deep thinker, outside the box, alternative, blah, blah, blah. However, the skepti rule is really:

- If someone accepts mainstream knowledge it's only because it was "handed to them on a platter", they were indoctrinated and never got out.
That's basically a truth. This isn't about you or globalists...this is about all of us with whatever we accept without proof of reality.

Quote from: Stash
- If you accept mainstream knowledge it's not because you are indoctrinated, knowledge "handed to you on a platter", but because you happen to agree with it.
Agreeing with something does not make that something, a truth. It just means it either fits into your thought process or it fits into your ease of knowing it is based on mass agreement.
We're all under this.

#### JackBlack

• 20584
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #107 on: June 18, 2020, 02:25:07 AM »
The issue is in my answers not being accepted as an answer because it doesn't suit.
Also you cannot expect me to answer the same question over and over when you cannot grasp the answer...so on that note....yes I will overlook it.
No, the issue is your "answer" is an intentionally deflection away from the actual issue being raised.

We can expect you to actually answer the actual question at least once.
It doesn't matter how many times you provide a non-answer, that doesn't answer the question.

The other thread is a wonderful example of that, were you were repeatedly asked about an object that was NOT on the floor and which had plenty of air underneath it, yet repeatedly appealed to it being on the floor and having practically no air underneath it.
That means you were not answering the question, but deflecting.

Likewise in this thread, I have repeatedly asked you how your freezing air expands, especially when by your own claim it is agitation which causes expansion, with that agitation requiring heat.
I am yet to see an answer for that.

So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.
Which puts the globe model up quite high, as that can explain so much of observed reality without appealing to self-contradictory nonsense, and which is yet to be refuted.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #108 on: June 18, 2020, 09:38:45 AM »
So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.
Which puts the globe model up quite high, as that can explain so much of observed reality without appealing to self-contradictory nonsense, and which is yet to be refuted.
No. There is no observed reality for your globe. There is a perceived reality for you, based on what you're told.

#### JJA

• 6791
• Math is math!
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #109 on: June 18, 2020, 02:32:46 PM »
So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.
Which puts the globe model up quite high, as that can explain so much of observed reality without appealing to self-contradictory nonsense, and which is yet to be refuted.
No. There is no observed reality for your globe. There is a perceived reality for you, based on what you're told.

Astronauts perceive the reality of the globe just fine.

?

#### Themightykabool

• 9657
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #110 on: June 18, 2020, 02:37:37 PM »

#### JackBlack

• 20584
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #111 on: June 18, 2020, 02:53:23 PM »
No. There is no observed reality for your globe.
You not liking observed reality and wanting to reject it doesn't magically make it not exist.

And again, stop with the insults. It isn't just based upon what I have been told. It is based upon personal experience as well.

But of course, this is all just deflection to avoid the bigger problem for you.
Again, according to your own model agitation causes things to expand, and as the object cools that agitation is reduced.
That means as the air cools, it contracts and could never freeze into a solid dome.

That means all your air goes flying off into space.

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #112 on: June 19, 2020, 12:51:42 AM »
So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.
Which puts the globe model up quite high, as that can explain so much of observed reality without appealing to self-contradictory nonsense, and which is yet to be refuted.
No. There is no observed reality for your globe. There is a perceived reality for you, based on what you're told.

Astronauts perceive the reality of the globe just fine.
So does superman and most probably santa claus and maybe Darth vader, plus the starship enterprise crew.......etc. Are you getting my gist?

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #113 on: June 19, 2020, 12:52:46 AM »
No. There is no observed reality for your globe.
You not liking observed reality and wanting to reject it doesn't magically make it not exist.

#### JackBlack

• 20584
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #114 on: June 19, 2020, 03:51:44 AM »
First tell me how your air magically doesn't fly away?
Tell me how it expands with the agitation decreasing?

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #115 on: June 19, 2020, 06:26:55 AM »
First tell me how your air magically doesn't fly away?
Tell me how it expands with the agitation decreasing?
It expands because it is not under the pressure it was. It is first agitating to get to be expanded. This agitation is due to dense agitation creating heat due to it.
It's all been explained to you many times. Pay more attention and you wouldn't need to go through it all.

Now tell me about your reality that goes against what I'm saying.
Your reality. What you physically know, not what the books tell you, etc.

#### Amoranemix

• 35
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #116 on: June 19, 2020, 07:01:17 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
[10]There is a difference between establishing what the best model for reality is and how to make you believe that model. Based on the information provided by flat-earthers, the best model is the geocentric round earth-model. Why ? Because of TINA : there is no alternative.
The best model is the real model.[12] None of us possess that model in terms of physically proving it.
So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.[13]
This means the the global model you adhere to is way down on the list in terms of logical.[14]
[12] Wrong. Reality is not a model and is impossible for anyone to grasp. A model is a simplified version or representation of something.
[13] Wrong again. Feasibility is no criterion for a good model (at least not to scientists). A cube is a feasible model for reality, yet for most purposes it is a bad one, because it fails on an important criterion for the quality of a model (at least to scientists) : how useful it is for making predictions. On that criterion the round, geocentric model beats your flat-earth model hands down. For example, the former can explain why air stays on earth; the latter can not.
[14] How is that supposed to follow ?

Quote from: sceptimatic
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
If you do not see gaping holes as problematic for a worldview, what are your criteria for the quality of a worldview ?
[no response]
You forgot to answer my question.

Quote from: sceptimatic
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
That you fail to see them, does not imply they don't exist. I and others have pointed out several problems. Are you blind or do you refuse to see ?
[no response]
You forgot to answer my question.

Quote from: sceptimatic 100
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
No flat-earther has to my knowledge, and certainly not you in this thread, provided a coherent flat-earth model that is consistent with the evidence.
You mean nobody has provided a model that fits the magical one made up for you?
No. I mean what I said.

Quote from: sceptimatic 100
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
To my knowledge, all evidence.
What knowledge is this?
I have no knowledge indicating that there is evidence inconsistent with the absence of a hydrogen-helium ice dome.
I won't share all my knowledge with you because that would be too much work.

Quote from: sceptimatic 100
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
Sceptics require something you can't provide : evidence.
Ditto.
Ambiguous.

Quote from: sceptimatic 100
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
So, we can choose bettween a working model and a collection of hypotheses.
A working model is not a reality...but, yes, you can pick and choose...as you have. It does not mean you know it to be reality.[15] It means you are schooled into a belief system which may not be reality.[16]
[15] I have never claimed otherwise.
[16] Of course it doesn't mean that. It doesn't even imply that. Yet the belief system I am schooled in is not reality and neither is yours.

Quote from: sceptimatic 100
Quote from: Amoranemix 96
Quote from: JackBlack 86
Again, how does your air freeze into a solid dome which prevents further air from escaping?
If it freezes then it would take up basically no volume and just fly off into space or crash down onto the surface. Over time this would allow all the air to leave.
In the absense of gravity, it should fly of.
When you fail to understand it from my side, it can do anything you wish.
You are mistaken. I fail to understand it from your side and yet, alas, air cannot do anything I wish.

Quote from: sceptimatic 101
Quote from: Themightykabool
How very true!
When you saybsomehing that doesnt make sense, we question it.
When you refuse to answer it... well thats no real proof is it now?
Feel free to question, as I do.
The issue is in my answers not being accepted as an answer because it doesn't suit.[18]
Whose issue is that?[19]
[17] You forgot to mention that you certainly do fail to answer.
[18] Suiting isn't the appropriate word but when you do give answers, they are often either unintelligible or inconsistent with the best models we have.
[19] The issue of those worried about your belief in a fantasy.

Quote from: sceptimatic 106 to Stash
We are all force fed in all ways, shapes and forms.
However, at school we are especially force fed because we have zero choice but to follow a curriculum and be quizzed on the absorbance of it, at the end.
It doesn't mean the learning is all reality based[20]....but if that learning is told to you as being reality based and you accept it without question then later you teach that to others or refuse to accept there could be alternatives to that[21], then it's basically a case of, do you hold that same view and go with the mass flow, or do you step outside of that box and put your own mind to use in an alternate thought process.
[20] It doesn't mean it is not reality based either.
[21] There could have been, but there aren't.

Quote from: sceptimatic 106
Quote from: Stash
You, on the otherhand, are a deep thinker, outside the box, alternative, blah, blah, blah. However, the skepti rule is really:
- If someone accepts mainstream knowledge it's only because it was "handed to them on a platter", they were indoctrinated and never got out.
That's basically a truth. This isn't about you or globalists...this is about all of us with whatever we accept without proof of reality.
Most people believe the round, geocentric world model because they have been taught it. However, it turns out the if one does investigate it, it holds up to scrutiny.

Quote from: sceptimatic 108
Quote from: Jackblack 107
Which puts the globe model up quite high, as that can explain so much of observed reality without appealing to self-contradictory nonsense, and which is yet to be refuted.
No. There is no observed reality for your globe. There is a perceived reality for you, based on what you're told
Sceptics don't evaluate models based on how much reality there is for it, but based on evidence. By that criterion the round, geocentric model wins by a landslide. Also, the evidence that would exist if the model were false, is strangely absent.

Quote from: sceptimatic 115
Quote from: Jackblack 114
First tell me how your air magically doesn't fly away?
Tell me how it expands with the agitation decreasing?
It expands because it is not under the pressure it was. It is first agitating to get to be expanded. This agitation is due to dense agitation creating heat due to it.
What is dense agitation and how does it create heat ?

#### sceptimatic

• Flat Earth Scientist
• 29977
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #117 on: June 19, 2020, 08:20:24 AM »

What is dense agitation and how does it create heat ?
You know how you have snow on high mountains, even in sunlight and the same sunlight at sea level makes you hot.
It's due to dense agitation of molecules, because you are under much more mass of pressurised molecules than up high on the mountain in the sunbeams.

Take your time to absorb it.

?

#### Themightykabool

• 9657
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #118 on: June 19, 2020, 10:45:14 AM »

Now tell me about your reality that goes against what I'm saying.
Your reality. What you physically know, not what the books tell you, etc.

These "books" have been verified by plenty people.

Have you seen the frozen helium dome?
You physically experienced it?
How does reading a book differ vs reading it by some guy named sceppy in some internet thread?

#### JJA

• 6791
• Math is math!
##### Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #119 on: June 19, 2020, 11:28:52 AM »
So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.
Which puts the globe model up quite high, as that can explain so much of observed reality without appealing to self-contradictory nonsense, and which is yet to be refuted.
No. There is no observed reality for your globe. There is a perceived reality for you, based on what you're told.

Astronauts perceive the reality of the globe just fine.
So does superman and most probably santa claus and maybe Darth vader, plus the starship enterprise crew.......etc. Are you getting my gist?

The gist is you can't tell the difference between reality and a movie, got it.