how does air stay on earth

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JackBlack

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #120 on: June 19, 2020, 03:42:27 PM »
It expands because it is not under the pressure it was. It is first agitating to get to be expanded. This agitation is due to dense agitation creating heat due to it.
So it not freezing? i.e. the exact opposite of what you are claiming?

Now tell me about your reality that goes against what I'm saying.
Your reality. What you physically know, not what the books tell you, etc.
The fact that when gases freeze/liquefy, they massively reduce in volume and when they boil/sublimate, they massively expand.
I know this from own personal experience of dealing with cryogenic gases, primarily liquid nitrogen and dry ice.

Likewise, how reducing the pressure lowers the boiling point, and makes things far more likely to be a gas, vs increasing the pressure which increases the boiling point and makes things more likely to be a solid or a liquid.
Again, this is from personal experience, such as that obtained when using a pressure cooker, or a rotary evaporator, or a vacuum oven/vacuums in general.

Likewise, my experience of using electron microscopes shows quite clearly that low pressure is not just a case of molecules expanding, and instead gases have very large voids between the individual molecules. Voids which electrons can freely pass through, while introducing large amounts of air prevents that. The same applies even more to mass spectrometers, and instruments which use ion beams. These instruments need very low pressures to operate as they rely upon the ions being able to freely travel in a straight line without colliding with the air.
Your magically expanded molecules would prevent it all from working.

Yet you want to pretend an extreme low pressure causes the gas to freeze.
Even when there is nothing to transfer its energy to to cause it to freeze.
And then you want that magically expanded gas in an extreme low pressure environment to be magically massive to form a solid, impenetrable wall.

And that is just for this thread.
For the other thread there is plenty more.

You know how you have snow on high mountains, even in sunlight and the same sunlight at sea level makes you hot.
That is due to the sunlight providing additional energy to that which is already there.
The sunlight is absorbed over a very large area near ground level.

This means a lot of energy is being absorbed, and thus the overall temperature will be higher.

Conversely, on the top of a mountain, only a small portion of the area has land to absorb the sunlight, with most of it just passing straight through the air to get lower. That means overall there is less energy being absorbed and thus the overall temperature is lower.

That is then combined with the overall thermal mass.
Lower down, especially near the ocean, you have a very large thermal mass, which during the night will slowly radiate away that energy, keeping the temperature still fairly warm for when the sun next comes out.
Conversely, high on a mountain, you typically have a lot less thermal mass and thus far more of the energy can be radiated away during the night, lowering the overall temperature.

You then have the positive feedback loop of albedo.
Snow is quite reflective, and thus reflects/scatters a lot of the energy from the sun away from the ground so it isn't absorbed, whereas black asphalt and other dark grounds absorb a lot more.

The sun still imparts the same amount of energy per unit area at both locations (technically the higher altitude has slightly more).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 03:48:44 PM by JackBlack »

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #121 on: June 20, 2020, 03:12:11 AM »


Now tell me about your reality that goes against what I'm saying.
Your reality. What you physically know, not what the books tell you, etc.

These "books" have been verified by plenty people.
Verified as to what?
Tell me how this verification has been physically done, pertaining to what we're arguing about?


Quote from: Themightykabool
Have you seen the frozen helium dome?
Nope. Have you see any of the stuff you're arguing for?

Quote from: Themightykabool
You physically experienced it?
Nope. Out of my reach.
Have you physically experienced the spinning globe and everything that supposedly makes it work?

Quote from: Themightykabool
How does reading a book differ vs reading it by some guy named sceppy in some internet thread?
It doesn't differ. It's about reading and accepting what you read.
You accept nothing from me and I accept that. I'm not asking you to believe anything I say. I'm simply explaining my side.
You do accept mainstream ideals because peer pressure ensures it and it's also easier.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #122 on: June 20, 2020, 03:14:10 AM »


The gist is you can't tell the difference between reality and a movie, got it.
I'd say that is definitely much more to do with your stance, rather than mine.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #123 on: June 20, 2020, 03:15:57 AM »
It expands because it is not under the pressure it was. It is first agitating to get to be expanded. This agitation is due to dense agitation creating heat due to it.
So it not freezing? i.e. the exact opposite of what you are claiming?

Now tell me about your reality that goes against what I'm saying.
Your reality. What you physically know, not what the books tell you, etc.
The fact that when gases freeze/liquefy, they massively reduce in volume and when they boil/sublimate, they massively expand.
I know this from own personal experience of dealing with cryogenic gases, primarily liquid nitrogen and dry ice.

Likewise, how reducing the pressure lowers the boiling point, and makes things far more likely to be a gas, vs increasing the pressure which increases the boiling point and makes things more likely to be a solid or a liquid.
Again, this is from personal experience, such as that obtained when using a pressure cooker, or a rotary evaporator, or a vacuum oven/vacuums in general.

Likewise, my experience of using electron microscopes shows quite clearly that low pressure is not just a case of molecules expanding, and instead gases have very large voids between the individual molecules. Voids which electrons can freely pass through, while introducing large amounts of air prevents that. The same applies even more to mass spectrometers, and instruments which use ion beams. These instruments need very low pressures to operate as they rely upon the ions being able to freely travel in a straight line without colliding with the air.
Your magically expanded molecules would prevent it all from working.

Yet you want to pretend an extreme low pressure causes the gas to freeze.
Even when there is nothing to transfer its energy to to cause it to freeze.
And then you want that magically expanded gas in an extreme low pressure environment to be magically massive to form a solid, impenetrable wall.

And that is just for this thread.
For the other thread there is plenty more.

You know how you have snow on high mountains, even in sunlight and the same sunlight at sea level makes you hot.
That is due to the sunlight providing additional energy to that which is already there.
The sunlight is absorbed over a very large area near ground level.

This means a lot of energy is being absorbed, and thus the overall temperature will be higher.

Conversely, on the top of a mountain, only a small portion of the area has land to absorb the sunlight, with most of it just passing straight through the air to get lower. That means overall there is less energy being absorbed and thus the overall temperature is lower.

That is then combined with the overall thermal mass.
Lower down, especially near the ocean, you have a very large thermal mass, which during the night will slowly radiate away that energy, keeping the temperature still fairly warm for when the sun next comes out.
Conversely, high on a mountain, you typically have a lot less thermal mass and thus far more of the energy can be radiated away during the night, lowering the overall temperature.

You then have the positive feedback loop of albedo.
Snow is quite reflective, and thus reflects/scatters a lot of the energy from the sun away from the ground so it isn't absorbed, whereas black asphalt and other dark grounds absorb a lot more.

The sun still imparts the same amount of energy per unit area at both locations (technically the higher altitude has slightly more).
Pay more attention to what I've been telling you and you won't feel the need to type all this.

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JackBlack

  • 23199
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #124 on: June 20, 2020, 06:03:14 AM »
Pay more attention to what I've been telling you and you won't feel the need to type all this.
Seriously?
You literally ask me about what I physically know, which I haven't read in books; only for you to just completely ignore it?
Thanks for showing yet again that you don't give a damn about the truth or reality.

So perhaps you can now just admit that, or try to actually address the issue?
Again, there is literally no justification at all for your magical expanding freezing gas to form a dome.
If it freezes it will massively reduce in volume and not make any form of impenetrable barrier, especially as the physical molecules do not change size.
That means the air will continue to fly away into space.

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #125 on: June 20, 2020, 09:57:30 AM »


Now tell me about your reality that goes against what I'm saying.
Your reality. What you physically know, not what the books tell you, etc.

These "books" have been verified by plenty people.
Verified as to what?
Tell me how this verification has been physically done, pertaining to what we're arguing about?


Quote from: Themightykabool
Have you seen the frozen helium dome?
Nope. Have you see any of the stuff you're arguing for?

Quote from: Themightykabool
You physically experienced it?
Nope. Out of my reach.
Have you physically experienced the spinning globe and everything that supposedly makes it work?

Quote from: Themightykabool
How does reading a book differ vs reading it by some guy named sceppy in some internet thread?
It doesn't differ. It's about reading and accepting what you read.
You accept nothing from me and I accept that. I'm not asking you to believe anything I say. I'm simply explaining my side.
You do accept mainstream ideals because peer pressure ensures it and it's also easier.

All of industrialized world would not agree with you.
Thats how.
You cant even explain (beyond hair displaces hair) the question that has been repeated to you across three threads.

It is accepted because it works.
Bridges
Skyrises
Scuba
Submarines
Tanks
Ferraris
Air conditioning

I have not experienced space, as is convenient for your argument, in that your attempt is to dodge and deflect.
But i and many have experienced the stars, how they move, south vs north, falling stars etc.
If your argurment is im duped, thats pretty pathetic as more likely you have extreme paranoia or self granduer that allows you to think 1000s of space people have been duped.
You are one, single person with a partial theory.

So in summary
Your answer in your defnese is "nope" and that we shoukd take your word for it because you are logical and can only explain via half thought out analogies.
Beyond that you have nothing else to offer nor verify.
Got it.
Thanks for clearing that up.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 10:03:52 AM by Themightykabool »

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #126 on: June 20, 2020, 12:22:06 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 117
Quote from: Amoranemix 116
What is dense agitation and how does it create heat ?
You know how you have snow on high mountains, even in sunlight and the same sunlight at sea level makes you hot.
It's due to dense agitation of molecules, because you are under much more mass of pressurised molecules than up high on the mountain in the sunbeams.
Basically, you mean the sun at low altitude heats the air, meaning the kinetic energy of the molecules increases, causing the gas to expand.
Why didn't you just say that in stead of claiming that dense agitation causes agitation ?

Quote from: sceptimatic 117
Quote from: Amoranemix 116
Quote from: sceptimatic
The best model is the real model.[12] None of us possess that model in terms of physically proving it.
So the best model has to be the one that logically appears more feasible than others.[13]
This means the the global model you adhere to is way down on the list in terms of logical.[14]
[12] Wrong. Reality is not a model and is impossible for anyone to grasp. A model is a simplified version or representation of something.
[13] Wrong again. Feasibility is no criterion for a good model (at least not to scientists). A cube is a feasible model for reality, yet for most purposes it is a bad one, because it fails on an important criterion for the quality of a model (at least to scientists) : how useful it is for making predictions. On that criterion the round, geocentric model beats your flat-earth model hands down. For example, the former can explain why air stays on earth; the latter can not.
[14] How is that supposed to follow ?
[no no response]
If your claim does not follow, why did you pretend it does ?

Quote from: sceptimatic 115
Quote from: Jackblack
Have you seen the frozen helium dome?
Nope. Have you see any of the stuff you're arguing for?
We already knew you can present no evidence for your dome, but now it turns out you haven't even seen it.

Quote from: Themightykabool 125 to sceptimatic
So in summary
Your answer in your defnese is "nope" and that we shoukd take your word for it because you are logical and can only explain via half thought out analogies.
He did not say we should believe him. He merely shared his beliefs to accept or not.


After all this discussion flat-earthers still have not been able to present a viable theory for the earth keeping an atmosphere. Gravity still reigns supreme with TINA as its queen.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #127 on: June 20, 2020, 01:01:02 PM »
Pay more attention to what I've been telling you and you won't feel the need to type all this.
Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #128 on: June 20, 2020, 01:02:32 PM »


Now tell me about your reality that goes against what I'm saying.
Your reality. What you physically know, not what the books tell you, etc.

These "books" have been verified by plenty people.
Verified as to what?
Tell me how this verification has been physically done, pertaining to what we're arguing about?


Quote from: Themightykabool
Have you seen the frozen helium dome?
Nope. Have you see any of the stuff you're arguing for?

Quote from: Themightykabool
You physically experienced it?
Nope. Out of my reach.
Have you physically experienced the spinning globe and everything that supposedly makes it work?

Quote from: Themightykabool
How does reading a book differ vs reading it by some guy named sceppy in some internet thread?
It doesn't differ. It's about reading and accepting what you read.
You accept nothing from me and I accept that. I'm not asking you to believe anything I say. I'm simply explaining my side.
You do accept mainstream ideals because peer pressure ensures it and it's also easier.

All of industrialized world would not agree with you.
Thats how.
You cant even explain (beyond hair displaces hair) the question that has been repeated to you across three threads.

It is accepted because it works.
Bridges
Skyrises
Scuba
Submarines
Tanks
Ferraris
Air conditioning

I have not experienced space, as is convenient for your argument, in that your attempt is to dodge and deflect.
But i and many have experienced the stars, how they move, south vs north, falling stars etc.
If your argurment is im duped, thats pretty pathetic as more likely you have extreme paranoia or self granduer that allows you to think 1000s of space people have been duped.
You are one, single person with a partial theory.

So in summary
Your answer in your defnese is "nope" and that we shoukd take your word for it because you are logical and can only explain via half thought out analogies.
Beyond that you have nothing else to offer nor verify.
Got it.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I'm not asking you to take my word for it.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30070
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #129 on: June 20, 2020, 01:05:01 PM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 117
Quote from: Amoranemix 116
What is dense agitation and how does it create heat ?
You know how you have snow on high mountains, even in sunlight and the same sunlight at sea level makes you hot.
It's due to dense agitation of molecules, because you are under much more mass of pressurised molecules than up high on the mountain in the sunbeams.
Basically, you mean the sun at low altitude heats the air, meaning the kinetic energy of the molecules increases, causing the gas to expand.
Why didn't you just say that in stead of claiming that dense agitation causes agitation ?


I didn't say dense agitation causes agitation.
Playing games will just ensure you keep typing and typing the same thing.
Carry on if that's your game.

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JackBlack

  • 23199
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #130 on: June 20, 2020, 04:27:51 PM »
Yes, seriously.
So you are indirectly telling me that you have no concern for the truth nor reality and are just spamming what you know to be BS.
That you are just wasting people's time when you ask them what they know, because you have no intention at all of accepting it or even commenting on it and instead will just dismiss it?

Again, reality shows you are completely wrong. Reality shows that when gas freezes, it reduces in volume, not expands.
Reality shows that even as a gas, the molecules are still tiny, and that the majority of a gas is empty space.
This means your magic dome wont work.
You cannot have your gas magically expand and freeze to form a solid dome.
That means you have nothing to keep the gas on Earth. Either it just flies off into space, or it falls to Earth.

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sceptimatic

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  • 30070
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #131 on: June 21, 2020, 09:55:24 PM »

You cannot have your gas magically expand and freeze to form a solid dome.
Yes I can.

Quote from: JackBlack
That means you have nothing to keep the gas on Earth. Either it just flies off into space, or it falls to Earth.
The gas itself is kept on Earth by a natural stacking system.
No need to fly off anywhere. It's all held by each stacking pressure, all the way to the top where a skin (ice) is formed at the end of that stacking system.

It becomes a cell. We lose nothing.

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JackBlack

  • 23199
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #132 on: June 22, 2020, 04:00:56 AM »
You cannot have your gas magically expand and freeze to form a solid dome.
Yes I can.
Again, HOW?
Actually address what has been said rather than entirely ignoring it just because it shows you are wrong.

Again, all the evidence and your own claims are that gases shrink when they freeze, with reality show quite a dramatic reduction in volume.
And all the evidence shows the vast majority of a gas is empty space.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #133 on: June 22, 2020, 08:39:35 AM »
You cannot have your gas magically expand and freeze to form a solid dome.
Yes I can.
Again, HOW?
Actually address what has been said rather than entirely ignoring it just because it shows you are wrong.

Again, all the evidence and your own claims are that gases shrink when they freeze, with reality show quite a dramatic reduction in volume.
And all the evidence shows the vast majority of a gas is empty space.
I've fully explained it and I'm fully aware you will never accept it.
There may be hope for others but certainly not you.

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #134 on: June 22, 2020, 09:42:08 AM »
You cannot have your gas magically expand and freeze to form a solid dome.
Yes I can.
Again, HOW?
Actually address what has been said rather than entirely ignoring it just because it shows you are wrong.

Again, all the evidence and your own claims are that gases shrink when they freeze, with reality show quite a dramatic reduction in volume.
And all the evidence shows the vast majority of a gas is empty space.
I've fully explained it and I'm fully aware you will never accept it.
There may be hope for others but certainly not you.

If we re all confused, you have not done a good job at explaining.

Actually let me correct that.
We are not confused.
We are asking you to clarify a very specific directional aspect of your theory that all the crush on crush has yet to explain.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #135 on: June 22, 2020, 11:11:45 AM »


If we re all confused, you have not done a good job at explaining.

Actually let me correct that.
We are not confused.
We are asking you to clarify a very specific directional aspect of your theory that all the crush on crush has yet to explain.
Already been clarified. It's up to you to start taking better notice.

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Stash

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #136 on: June 22, 2020, 01:32:39 PM »


If we re all confused, you have not done a good job at explaining.

Actually let me correct that.
We are not confused.
We are asking you to clarify a very specific directional aspect of your theory that all the crush on crush has yet to explain.
Already been clarified. It's up to you to start taking better notice.

Crush on crush doesn't explain an upward stack force.

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JackBlack

  • 23199
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #137 on: June 22, 2020, 02:47:08 PM »
I've fully explained it and I'm fully aware you will never accept it.
There may be hope for others but certainly not you.
You have explained nothing. Instead you repeatedly avoided explaining anything or dealing with the facts which refute you.
No that you have run out of excuses you just lie and say you have explained it.

While you might have hope for conning others with your fantasy BS, I will still continue to refute you even if you ignore me.

Again, your own model has things shrink when they stop being agitated.
That means your gas shrinks when it freezes.
That means you have no solid dome and your air flies off into space.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #138 on: June 22, 2020, 11:56:42 PM »


If we re all confused, you have not done a good job at explaining.

Actually let me correct that.
We are not confused.
We are asking you to clarify a very specific directional aspect of your theory that all the crush on crush has yet to explain.
Already been clarified. It's up to you to start taking better notice.

Crush on crush doesn't explain an upward stack force.
It does when you take proper notice of what's been said.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #139 on: June 22, 2020, 11:57:17 PM »

You have explained nothing.
Then stop wasting your time on me.

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Stash

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  • I am car!
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #140 on: June 23, 2020, 12:07:27 AM »


If we re all confused, you have not done a good job at explaining.

Actually let me correct that.
We are not confused.
We are asking you to clarify a very specific directional aspect of your theory that all the crush on crush has yet to explain.
Already been clarified. It's up to you to start taking better notice.

Crush on crush doesn't explain an upward stack force.
It does when you take proper notice of what's been said.

Crush on crush doesn't explain how a cup can stick to the ceiling requiring a vertical stack to reverse itself and instead of crushing down, it's now crushing up. Stacking sponges doesn't explain how I am standing 1 cm below the cup that is stuck to the ceiling yet the vertical sponge stack is at the same time pushing me down.
And displacement doesn't help because the atmosphere I displace and the cup displaces doesn't know to turn around and push back on us. It spreads out into the rest of the atmosphere with a flexible volume of low and high pressure areas that covers the entire earth. My displaced atmosphere is not assigned to me.

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #141 on: June 23, 2020, 12:20:36 AM »


If we re all confused, you have not done a good job at explaining.

Actually let me correct that.
We are not confused.
We are asking you to clarify a very specific directional aspect of your theory that all the crush on crush has yet to explain.
Already been clarified. It's up to you to start taking better notice.

Nice dodge again

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #142 on: June 23, 2020, 12:50:46 AM »
Crush on crush doesn't explain how a cup can stick to the ceiling requiring a vertical stack to reverse itself and instead of crushing down, it's now crushing up.
It's not reversing itself.
Understand that the stacking system is exactly that. From bottom to top.
If you are on the bottom with your feet, you are resisting the stack you are immersed in which is stacked is ever different masses with each vertical layer.
Your body takes up all the stacking pushed outwards, alla round it up to your shoulders. Above your shoulders, and for the width of them, is more stacking upon them with your neck pushing outwards alla round it and then your head doing the same right up to your hair.
There's the major pressure around you.
Now you also have the stack directly above your head and your head is also resisting the stacking system above it, only.
It's this extra that is the difference between you being buoyant in terms of floating.
It's just a case of you understanding it from my side of the fence.

Now then, now that you can see there's a stacking system, you'll accept from my point of view that this stacking system would stop at any level for any object that sits on each stacking system.
Such as (in this instance) a ceiling.
That ceiling would be resting on the stacks below only because it is held up by a foundation below....but that's not important as of yet.
What is important is the rubber cup that takes up it's own dense mass of that atmosphere....only.

Now here's where I think you are getting confused.

Once you place that cup against the ceiling it takes up some of the stack by that actual mass.....not internal volume.
Because the inside of the cup at this point is full of atmospheric pressure ...this pressure inside can ensure the cup overcomes the resistance of the stack below.
Diminish this push by pushing out a fair bit of atmosphere from the cup and you now have very little push against a bigger resistance of the stack around it, aided by the actual force you pushed the atmosphere out of that cup.
This now fills the void, delve, dent (whatever) in the external cup which is taken up by the evacuation of the pressure from within it.
Hence why it's clamped to the ceiling.





Quote from: Stash
Stacking sponges doesn't explain how I am standing 1 cm below the cup that is stuck to the ceiling yet the vertical sponge stack is at the same time pushing me down.
The stack pushing your dense mass down is also pushing the cup, up. I've explained it above if you take some time to absorb it.


Quote from: Stash
And displacement doesn't help because the atmosphere I displace and the cup displaces doesn't know to turn around and push back on us.
It's not a case of knowing. It's a natural action and reaction. Robbing Peter to pay Paul and vice versa.


Quote from: Stash
It spreads out into the rest of the atmosphere with a flexible volume of low and high pressure areas that covers the entire earth. My displaced atmosphere is not assigned to me.
It is assigned to you. It's assigned to any object that displaces it.
The problem you're having is not grasping adding to pressure by force to create an equal force in return.

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sceptimatic

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #143 on: June 23, 2020, 12:51:59 AM »


If we re all confused, you have not done a good job at explaining.

Actually let me correct that.
We are not confused.
We are asking you to clarify a very specific directional aspect of your theory that all the crush on crush has yet to explain.
Already been clarified. It's up to you to start taking better notice.

Nice dodge again
No dodging. I've explained it.
If you want more clarity then be totally clear in how you want things explained.

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #144 on: June 23, 2020, 01:07:54 AM »
Be totally clear...?
Ok lets try again
The stack you claim is the air we breath, compressed up against the dome, causing a springing downards push on things below that displace it - if this downwards push is perfectly lined up, pushing downwards, why then is the hair on my head able to withstand 175lbs (99.99% of my weight) of this very air column that is directly pushing dowards feom the dome all the way through my body from my hair to my toes?

Beyond your answer of displaced hair to air, the vertical aligment should push all the way through because you cant phsycially push on my head down without crushing the hair in between.

Try repeating the "problem" back in your own words, to show us what your understanding of the question being asked of you is before you expmain how your theory addresses and answers the issue.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 01:10:26 AM by Themightykabool »

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Stash

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Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #145 on: June 23, 2020, 01:43:09 AM »
Crush on crush doesn't explain how a cup can stick to the ceiling requiring a vertical stack to reverse itself and instead of crushing down, it's now crushing up.
It's not reversing itself.
Understand that the stacking system is exactly that. From bottom to top.
If you are on the bottom with your feet, you are resisting the stack you are immersed in which is stacked is ever different masses with each vertical layer.
Your body takes up all the stacking pushed outwards, alla round it up to your shoulders. Above your shoulders, and for the width of them, is more stacking upon them with your neck pushing outwards alla round it and then your head doing the same right up to your hair.
There's the major pressure around you.
Now you also have the stack directly above your head and your head is also resisting the stacking system above it, only.
It's this extra that is the difference between you being buoyant in terms of floating.
It's just a case of you understanding it from my side of the fence.

Now then, now that you can see there's a stacking system, you'll accept from my point of view that this stacking system would stop at any level for any object that sits on each stacking system.
Such as (in this instance) a ceiling.
That ceiling would be resting on the stacks below only because it is held up by a foundation below....but that's not important as of yet.
What is important is the rubber cup that takes up it's own dense mass of that atmosphere....only.

Now here's where I think you are getting confused.

Once you place that cup against the ceiling it takes up some of the stack by that actual mass.....not internal volume.
Because the inside of the cup at this point is full of atmospheric pressure ...this pressure inside can ensure the cup overcomes the resistance of the stack below.
Diminish this push by pushing out a fair bit of atmosphere from the cup and you now have very little push against a bigger resistance of the stack around it, aided by the actual force you pushed the atmosphere out of that cup.
This now fills the void, delve, dent (whatever) in the external cup which is taken up by the evacuation of the pressure from within it.
Hence why it's clamped to the ceiling.

Quote from: Stash
Stacking sponges doesn't explain how I am standing 1 cm below the cup that is stuck to the ceiling yet the vertical sponge stack is at the same time pushing me down.
The stack pushing your dense mass down is also pushing the cup, up. I've explained it above if you take some time to absorb it.


Quote from: Stash
And displacement doesn't help because the atmosphere I displace and the cup displaces doesn't know to turn around and push back on us.
It's not a case of knowing. It's a natural action and reaction. Robbing Peter to pay Paul and vice versa.


Quote from: Stash
It spreads out into the rest of the atmosphere with a flexible volume of low and high pressure areas that covers the entire earth. My displaced atmosphere is not assigned to me.
It is assigned to you. It's assigned to any object that displaces it.
The problem you're having is not grasping adding to pressure by force to create an equal force in return.

First off, do you have any visuals at all? Anything? Part of the problem has always been that you have different definitions for words and actions from the rest of us. You speak your own language. Pictures would help a great deal. Anything?

And there is no equal force in return. When I blow smoke from a cigarette, it streams out away from my mouth and across the room. That is not imparting an equal force back on to me. That smoke is not assigned to me. How would it know to be assigned to me?


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JackBlack

  • 23199
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #146 on: June 23, 2020, 02:43:26 AM »
Then stop wasting your time on me.
Only once you stop spamming the same nonsene.
While you continue to spam it I will continue to point out that you have no explanation for even extremely basic things and continue to ask for them, and otherwise continue to refute you.

Yet again you fail to address the multitude of problems with your nonsense.

Again, your own model has things shrink when they stop being agitated.
That means your gas shrinks when it freezes.
That means you have no solid dome and your air flies off into space.

Again, all available evidence indicates that molecules are still tiny as a gas and that the majority of gas is empty space.
This means your gas can't even make a solid dome.

So you have no explanation at all for how the air remains on Earth.

Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #147 on: June 23, 2020, 08:21:55 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic 116
Quote from: Amoranemix 126
Quote from: sceptimatic
You know how you have snow on high mountains, even in sunlight and the same sunlight at sea level makes you hot.
It's due to dense agitation of molecules, because you are under much more mass of pressurised molecules than up high on the mountain in the sunbeams.
Basically, you mean the sun at low altitude heats the air, meaning the kinetic energy of the molecules increases, causing the gas to expand.
Why didn't you just say that in stead of claiming that dense agitation causes agitation ?
I didn't say dense agitation causes agitation.[15]
Playing games will just ensure you keep typing and typing the same thing.
Carry on if that's your game.[16]
Yes, you did say that in post 115 to Jackblack : “It expands because it is not under the pressure it was. It is first agitating to get to be expanded. This agitation is due to dense agitation creating heat due to it.”
First, A being due to B means almost the same as B causing A. Second, A creating B implies A causing B. You have not explained what agitation is, so I have done it for your by clarifying it is heat.

If one wants to promote true knowledge, then one should promote clarity, for clarity leads to truth and knowledge. Sometimes you do anything but that. Many of your responses, if you respond at all, are an exercise in guessing what you could have meant that makes the most sense. If your interlocutor guessed incorrectly, then, if you were interested promoting truth and knowledge, you would not just point that out, but clarify what you did mean in stead. If you are merely interested in hanging on to a flat-earth worldview, then indeed clarity is your ennemy and confusion your friend.

[16] What are you talking about ?

Quote from: sceptimatic
Quote from: Amoranemix 126
If your claim does not follow, why did you pretend it does ?
[no response]
You forgot to answer my question.

Quote from: sceptimatic 131
Quote from: JackBlack
You cannot have your gas magically expand and freeze to form a solid dome.
Yes I can.
So you claim, but can you prove it ?


The question on what keeps the atmosphere on earth has long been resolved. The only thing on topic that has been discussed lately is what sceptimatic (ought to) believe(s).

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30070
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #148 on: June 23, 2020, 09:37:32 AM »
Be totally clear...?
Ok lets try again
The stack you claim is the air we breath, compressed up against the dome, causing a springing downards push on things below that displace it
You need to understand what's happening.
Here's a clue.
If I was to tall you to go down a sewer drain until the top of your head was level with the open lid hold and then I placed  a city sized super soft sponge over that hole then ask you to climb out and stand on the road....how much of that sponge will you compress?
This is just a simple analogy so put your brain to work and try and understand what I'm saying.


Quote from: Themightykabool
- if this downwards push is perfectly lined up, pushing downwards, why then is the hair on my head able to withstand 175lbs (99.99% of my weight) of this very air column that is directly pushing dowards feom the dome all the way through my body from my hair to my toes?
The hair on your head, isn't, Unless you decide to do a head stand, which would mean the hair between your skull and the ground would have that mass on it.


Quote from: Themightykabool
Beyond your answer of displaced hair to air, the vertical aligment should push all the way through because you cant phsycially push on my head down without crushing the hair in between.
Your hair does get crushed but it's minor compared to your body and skull. Your hair displaces very little atmospheric pressure.


Quote from: Themightykabool
Try repeating the "problem" back in your own words, to show us what your understanding of the question being asked of you is before you expmain how your theory addresses and answers the issue.
I don't have any problem.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30070
Re: how does air stay on earth
« Reply #149 on: June 23, 2020, 10:05:53 AM »


First off, do you have any visuals at all? Anything? Part of the problem has always been that you have different definitions for words and actions from the rest of us. You speak your own language. Pictures would help a great deal. Anything?
Try your best to hit me with a clear scenario to gain a better explanation of you can't grasp what I'm telling you.


Quote from: Stash
And there is no equal force in return. When I blow smoke from a cigarette, it streams out away from my mouth and across the room.
Simply because you pushed it away with your hot breath and where you pushed it into that part of the atmosphere, that part of the atmosphere will push upon it and separate the make up of that smoke. The fact you pushed atmosphere and smoke from your lungs, means you lowered your own pressure internally upon you and channelled it externally.
The atmosphere now compresses that back to you.

Quote from: Stash
That is not imparting an equal force back on to me. That smoke is not assigned to me. How would it know to be assigned to me?
The only thing assigned to you directly is what you directly push into at any point.