Netflix Flat Earth Documentary

Netflix has a documentary about flat earthers called "Behind The Curve". My wife and I watched it and as people who firmly believe in the science and have scientific backgrounds we are always in somewhat of disbelief or awe when watching things like this. It's easy to initially try and describe these people as "stupid" or something along those lines, but many of them are actually educated and have just come to believe what they read on the internet. The documentary has several experts, from psychologists to astrophysicists, that make, what I thought, is a great point, that those of us who believe in science and a spherical earth need to not just dismiss these people but rather engage and explore why they think the way they do. I'm curious how others feel about this and if anyone has come across flat earthers and how they approached them?

I get reached out to all the time by folks; writers, students, interviewers, etc. Most of the time the most fruitful conversations come from a place of respect for each others beliefs even if they aren't shared.

Thx for sharing @ironmathyu5, I always love checking things out that challenge our conventional beliefs. Cheers!

I like moment when Bob proves Earth rotates and Jeranism proved it is curved...

My favorite part is 53 minutes in when Patricia Steere almost has a moment of clarity when talking about how people are spreading conspiracies against her.

"I wonder if in their hearts, people who do that know their lying."
"Or, are they so conspiratorial that they actually believe it?"
"Then it makes me worry about maybe things I believe in."
"Am I like another version of them?"
"But I know I'm not."

You can see her struggling.

We all have the ability to self-deceive, to lie to ourselves. We have all be in bad situations where we refuse to accept the truth about something painful, and are in denial. You even know it, deep down.

But when it becomes the shape of the earth, that's a bit over the edge, so to speak. Now you are not just denying that "No, I totally don't have a drinking problem" to "The entire world is a vast conspiracy and a lie".

Flat Earth is basically a religion the way I see it.  I've seen so many flat earthers argue facts and facts and then occasionally slip and rant about how no,they aren't a tiny spec in a vast cosmos, yelling We MATTER and We are the center of it all! Existential fear can be a big motivator.

So yes, there are some literally insane people here, but also some very smart and very deluded people too. Even if it's only self-delusion.

And nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

But then you have the vile ones, like cikljamas, who are toxic, and highly offensive.

The title still makes me chuckle.  I’m surprised flat earthers don’t seem to complain about that.  Or maybe I just missed it?

Flat Earthers hate this movie in general because they misrepresented them and purposefully left out information and edited information to suit the directors world view.

Flat Earthers hate this movie in general because they misrepresented them and purposefully left out information and edited information to suit the directors world view.

Most documentaries are sensationalized and not liked by anyone portrayed by them.

That said, I thought they did a good job.  I mean, what if they decided to interview sandokhan or wise or Thork from that other site?

They could have focused on some really insane sounding people if they had wanted to, but they showed mostly normal folk.

What information did they leave out?

I get reached out to all the time by folks; writers, students, interviewers, etc. Most of the time the most fruitful conversations come from a place of respect for each others beliefs even if they aren't shared.

I'm just speaking from my own personal viewpoint of my own education and experience
 and training and work experience that I am mystified to even hear of persons , who say that they believe the Earth is flat and much more mystified that there is even such a thing as a Flat Earth Society.

I have always known that Earth is a globe, but this website has given me a lot of details on things I had not thought of before. Some of them such as how the distance to the horizon can be estimated and how amateur radio operators can estimate the distance from the Earth to the moon to name just a few. And new ideas come to mind all the time on reasons on how easy it is to debunk the idea of a flat Earth.

But I find this website interesting in reading how flat earthers can imagine how things would be if the Earth was flat. I even have a few ideas of my own. So many thanks for this website for giving me new insight on how easy it is to prove that the Earth is not flat and that how easy it is to find that is an undeniable fact that the Earth is a globe with simple facts, evidences and personal observations.

Thanks also for letting my ban expire. I will try to stay off the subjects for which you don't like which have apparently been the basis for past bans.  I do admire flat earthers in some respects for their tenacity. But that doesn't mean that I am not still mystified  as to why some persons believe that the Earth is a flat disc with an ice ring around it. :-)

Cheers !
robintex

Quote from: John Davis on May 31, 2020, 02:50:35 PM

Flat Earthers hate this movie in general because they misrepresented them and purposefully left out information and edited information to suit the directors world view.

Most documentaries are sensationalized and not liked by anyone portrayed by them.

That said, I thought they did a good job.  I mean, what if they decided to interview sandokhan or wise or Thork from that other site?

They could have focused on some really insane sounding people if they had wanted to, but they showed mostly normal folk.

What information did they leave out?

I'd love to interview Sandokhan or Wise. What a great idea!

I know a fellow who believes the Earth is hollow with entrances at the North and South poles. He believes there is a second sun glowing brightly at the centre of the earth. No molten core. Just a second sun with literally a second earth worth of vast continents, oceans,  and civilizations existing inside on the inner rim. Twenty four hour daylight. His reason? A radio transmission from an Admiral Bird about 80 years ago.

People are entitled to believe what they want to believe. Beliefs have pay-offs.

With that doco, I thought Mark Sargent missed a romantic opportunity with Patricia Steere. Surely Mark was a better pick than Antonio sewer rat Subirats.

With that doco, I thought Mark Sargent missed a romantic opportunity with Patricia Steere. Surely Mark was a better pick than Antonio sewer rat Subirats.

That was so sad. I don't think anything was missed, he clearly wanted a romantic relationship, and she so very clearly did not. The times where she shut him down were almost painful to watch.

Quote from: John Davis on May 31, 2020, 02:50:35 PM

Flat Earthers hate this movie in general because they misrepresented them and purposefully left out information and edited information to suit the directors world view.

Most documentaries are sensationalized and not liked by anyone portrayed by them.

That said, I thought they did a good job.  I mean, what if they decided to interview sandokhan or wise or Thork from that other site?

They could have focused on some really insane sounding people if they had wanted to, but they showed mostly normal folk.

What information did they leave out?

My understanding was they misrepresented certain experiments and left out the results that didn't match their narrative.

My understanding was they misrepresented certain experiments and left out the results that didn't match their narrative.

How is that any different from the way that FE'ers misrepresent certain RE experiments and leave out results that don't match their narrative?

Never happened.

It's already on my 'Must-Watch-List'. Very curious since I read a lot of controversial opinions about it 

Thank you very much for the information you shared, it’s all I’ve been looking for.

It's a documentary so of course it's going to be overly dramatic and sensationalized but with the material they have to work with they don't need to do much.

In fact they left out some of the really vicious stuff, like details of the awful attacks Patricia Steere suffered at the hands of the FE community when they turned on her, accusing her of being a man, and the FE group that are avid holocaust deniers and rampant racists.

To be honest, I think they went very easy on a lot of them. They could have shown a lot more of the darker side of things if they had wanted.

This 'documentary' misrepresented the experiment. They were actually having trouble getting a consistent result. I made this post on the tfes.org front page when it came out:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190318215335/https://www.tfes.org/

It has come to our attention that a documentary titled Behind the Curve has appeared on Netflix and is introducing significant numbers of new people into the Flat Earth discussions. After viewing this piece we feel that the work depicts a poorly researched Flat Earth Theory. It should be noted that the Flat Earth Society was not consulted with the science of the documentary and that the topics discussed should be further researched.

Questions have come up about the light experiment at the end of the film. We point to the following from an account of a self-proclaimed Round Earth proponent who was present at the Jeran event [archive link] :

"In about 10 tries, with the light held waist-high at 17 feet above water we never clearly saw it through the center panel hole. On one of the attempts, maybe the fourth of ten, we clearly saw it when Enrique lifted it over his head. On that one, Jeran asked him to raise it and lower it a few times, and it would appear when Enrique raised it and vanish when he lowered it. That was the "gasp" moment. Jeran said, "that's interesting." I noted it was the prediction for a round Earth. When they repeated the whole procedure, it did not happen again. I suggested having Enrique move from side-to-side a bit when occluded by the panel, in case it was lateral alignment that was off. Jeran accepted the suggestion, but it made no observable difference."

Of about ten observations, the fourth observation was the only one where the event occurred, and the only one which was published in the documentary. Nine of the ten trials did not see the event. The above description of inconsistency suggests the presence of curving light rays in the experiment—refraction. The manner in which the experiment was portrayed in the film by the producers further suggests dishonesty. The documentary does not show the times the event did not occur. Misrepresentation of this nature is called scientific fraud. Had the results of all ten trials been honestly presented it would have, assuredly, been a far different segment.

It should be noted that time lapse photography has shown that the curvature of light rays across long distances can be a regular occurrence. Since ancient times, mankind has used this inconsistent effect as a primary piece of evidence that the Earth was spherical ¹.

Per the Ring Laser Gyroscope, the claim that this device can see the rotation of the Earth is the latest in the controversy between Copernicans and Anti-Copernicans on the matter of the Earth's rotation. From the era of Ptolemy, to Tycho Brahe, to conflicts of the Victorian Era, and even to attempts in present day, science has been engaged in the attempt of finding direct and conclusive evidence for the rotation of the Earth ². When assessing the Ring Laser Gyroscope studies of Earth's rotation, we find that the device does not appear to be measuring the Earth's rotation directly ³.

Regarding other social aspects of the film as presented by Delta-v Productions, we may only comment that it is a non-compelling argument to consult with psychologists rather than to seek the consultation of scientists and experimenters on combating the Flat Earth movement and demonstrating truth on empirical grounds. The Flat Earth Society values scientific integrity and demands direct, conclusive, and repeatable evidence that our Earth is a globe.

Footnotes:

¹ Sinking Ship Effect Caused by Refraction - Information on the Sinking Ship Effect
² Coriolis Effect - Information on the Coriolis Effect and historical attempts to determine rotation
³ Ring Laser Gyroscope - Resource on the claim of the Ring Laser Gyroscope observing Earth's rotation

This 'documentary' was fraudulent. They were actually having trouble getting a consistent result in that experiment. I made this post on tfes.org front page when it came out:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190318215335/https://www.tfes.org/

Quote

It has come to our attention that a documentary titled Behind the Curve has appeared on Netflix and is introducing significant numbers of new people into the Flat Earth discussions. After viewing this piece we feel that the work depicts a poorly researched Flat Earth Theory. It should be noted that the Flat Earth Society was not consulted with the science of the documentary and that the topics discussed should be further researched.

Questions have come up about the light experiment at the end of the film. We point to the following from an account of a self-proclaimed Round Earth proponent who was present at the Jeran event [archive link] :

"In about 10 tries, with the light held waist-high at 17 feet above water we never clearly saw it through the center panel hole. On one of the attempts, maybe the fourth of ten, we clearly saw it when Enrique lifted it over his head. On that one, Jeran asked him to raise it and lower it a few times, and it would appear when Enrique raised it and vanish when he lowered it. That was the "gasp" moment. Jeran said, "that's interesting." I noted it was the prediction for a round Earth. When they repeated the whole procedure, it did not happen again. I suggested having Enrique move from side-to-side a bit when occluded by the panel, in case it was lateral alignment that was off. Jeran accepted the suggestion, but it made no observable difference."

Of about ten observations, the fourth observation was the only one where the event occurred, and the only one which was published in the documentary. Nine of the ten trials did not see the event. The above description of inconsistency suggests the presence of curving light rays in the experiment—refraction. The manner in which the experiment was portrayed in the film by the producers further suggests dishonesty. The documentary does not show the times the event did not occur. Misrepresentation of this nature is called scientific fraud. Had the results of all ten trials been honestly presented it would have, assuredly, been a far different segment.

It should be noted that time lapse photography has shown that the curvature of light rays across long distances can be a regular occurrence. Since ancient times, mankind has used this inconsistent effect as a primary piece of evidence that the Earth was spherical ¹.

Per the Ring Laser Gyroscope, the claim that this device can see the rotation of the Earth is the latest in the controversy between Copernicans and Anti-Copernicans on the matter of the Earth's rotation. From the era of Ptolemy, to Tycho Brahe, to conflicts of the Victorian Era, and even to attempts in present day, science has been engaged in the attempt of finding direct and conclusive evidence for the rotation of the Earth ². When assessing the Ring Laser Gyroscope studies of Earth's rotation, we find that the device does not appear to be measuring the Earth's rotation directly ³.

Regarding other social aspects of the film as presented by Delta-v Productions, we may only comment that it is a non-compelling argument to consult with psychologists rather than to seek the consultation of scientists and experimenters on combating the Flat Earth movement and demonstrating truth on empirical grounds. The Flat Earth Society values scientific integrity and demands direct, conclusive, and repeatable evidence that our Earth is a globe.

Footnotes:

¹ Sinking Ship Effect Caused by Refraction - Information on the Sinking Ship Effect
² Coriolis Effect - Information on the Coriolis Effect and historical attempts to determine rotation
³ Ring Laser Gyroscope - Resource on the claim of the Ring Laser Gyroscope observing Earth's rotation

So you think because their crappy, badly run level experiment only disproved their Flat Earth views ONCE, that it didn't count?

They saw the light when they raised it. You think what, it just never happened at at all?  That the light we clearly saw, on camera, just never happened?

The documentary was very honest in portraying their badly thought out experiment. Not the makers fault these guys didn't do their homework, prepare, or plan properly.

The ring gyro is even worse. The best excuse they can give is a vague "the device does not appear to be measuring the Earth's rotation directly" with nothing to back it up. Well, what a rebuttal. Astounding. Yeah, the documentary is at fault because they portrayed events exactly as they happened here. The gyro recorded rotation, they were baffled. LOL.

They disproved themselves on camera multiple times. That was the best part of the documentary.

Well, that and Mark's sad one sided love affair. That was entertaining too, even if painful to watch.

So you think because their crappy, badly run level experiment only disproved their Flat Earth views ONCE, that it didn't count?

If they were having trouble seeing consistent results, it could suggest that light was moving in inconsistent ways, like we've seen elsewhere.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sinking_Ship_Effect_Caused_by_Refraction



The makers of that documentary neglected to provide the results of all trials of the experiment. That's just like sharing only one screenshot of the above video, knowing full well what the video shows. Therefore it's fraud and misrepresentation.

Quote from: JJA on August 18, 2020, 10:20:48 AM

So you think because their crappy, badly run level experiment only disproved their Flat Earth views ONCE, that it didn't count?

If they were having trouble seeing consistent results, it could suggest that light was moving in inconsistent ways, like we've seen elsewhere.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sinking_Ship_Effect_Caused_by_Refraction



The makers of that documentary neglected to provide the results of all trials of the experiment. Therefore it's fraud and misrepresentation.

Or it could be because nobody bothered to check if their laser could actually focus until trying it, or any other variables they ignored or didn't plan for, or understand.

But sure, lets go with light curving and moving around in ways nobody has ever seen or detected before. That seems more likely than a bunch of bumbling idiots who don't realize laser beams diverge at a distance.

I am not surprised you guys hate that documentary, even though it went WAY easy on your movement and avoided all the really awful stuff. They showed you pretty sympathetically to be honest.

Here is another opinion of the villagers about the shape of the land.
The track from the plane is not rounded, so the ground is flat.
Sorry, the file in Ukrainian will be appreciated by anyone who knows it partially.

https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=295024498580400&id=100042185550896&d=m&vh=i