To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa

  • 40 Replies
  • 4037 Views
*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« on: April 12, 2020, 07:00:59 PM »
So I spent a few hours talking to some people staying at my friend's house for a few months. They are a white couple born and raised in South Africa with 4 children. They had two businesses they left behind (and all other worldly possessions) to save all their own skins (just barely making it out). The only people left behind was their parents they cried many times for, however, they took their children's safety over their parents.

The conditions they described their are barbaric for white people and for the area in a whole.


The open murder, rape and robbery of white people with zero punishment from the law.

The 24 hour hold in jail of any white person without any cause. Cops do this so they will get gang raped in jail and contract aids/HIV.

The hierarchy of employment 1 black man 2 black woman 3 colored man 4 colored woman 5 white woman 6 white man.. making it impossible for white employment.

Black men able to own guns while white men cannot


South Africa in a whole on a path to hell including

The government and people in power steeling all the populace money and squandering it... So the entire infrastructure is collapsing.

Power is off for up to 6 hours per day and falling fast.

Only 1 of 15 sewage plants are functioning

Doctors are abandoning because of non payment from government. Going into the hospital is practically a death sentence if you are truly ill (not even getting into the coronavirus)

Their bonds have just been dropped into junk bond territory so they can't borrow money.




I could keep going, but figured would start there from what I learned from this couple hour conversation. They seemed honest people, no signs of lying. They also told me to check out a book written by a survivor of one of the gang rapes allowed towards white women. A lot of the stuff they said was also in this book.

If all this is true, gotta get the world out to not only save the couple million white people locked there, but also to save the country as a whole.

Truly a humanitarian crisis
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2020, 07:04:11 PM »
Or forgot to put, the reason they left besides what I stated earlier is they defended themselves against one of the attacks allowed towards them while they were at their business. It was against him and his two sons (he had the scars to prove it, so did his one son).

However, since they defended themselves and hurt a few of the black people in the process they were going to be put in jail while the others were not punished. For reasons stated above, obviously jail was not an option.
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2020, 11:28:57 PM »
Oh boy, this is a complicated and controversial topic.

So for me to answer your question I am going to have to give you some South African history, to give you an idea of how people perceive things. And then the current status. Ill try and keep it short.

First, the History
We had Apartheid, which literally translates to "separation" of all white and non-white.
This officially came to an end in 1987 with a newly elected president F.W. de Klerk was elected president, and he laid the Stage so that Nelson Mandela could become president (in 1994) in our first truly democratic elections, where all South Africans could vote.
The "Official" perspective for Apartheid was, let white people do white people things, and black people do black people things. (It got tricky as we had loads of Indians and colored people here too)

During Apartheid we had a very sophisticated economy, powerful army, produced more than 80% of all the electricity on the Continent, one of the highest GDP per capita in the world, amazing medical services, close to zero unemployment, amazeballs everything! With one tiny problem, those things where only true if you where white.
In the mean time VERY few black people where allowed to get a proper education.

After the fall of Apartheid we ended with a massive inequality problem, because for the first time, people who where not white where included in national statistics. Our GDP per capita obviously fell, suddenly very few people had access to water and electricity, and it turns out our medical industry was massively under-prepared for the full population.
This was made MUCH worse by the fact that almost all the new leaders had basically no higher education, or any formal education at all.

Corruption coupled with incompetence followed.
Our previous President was (I hope) the low point in this, where we had promotion of vastly under educated people to high positions due to simple corruption. We call this the Zuma Years, or the lost 10 years. There is currently a huge investigation in all of his scandals.

This concludes the Shortest History lesson possible for RSA.

But the important take away is this.
If you are white, and over 50 years old, you saw a nation go from one of the most powerful, wealthy and sophisticated in the world, to just being a common African Country. Many white people are still in this mindset, and completely forget that 80% of our population is not White.
These same people also correlate incompetence to Black people, which if you look at the vast difference in the socio-economics and education, you can see why. They ignore that more black people now have university degrees than black people had high school education during Apartheid.

Now, South Africa today

Crime - Currently we have a very high crime rate at about 30 murders per 100 000 people, this is one of the highest in the world. It is a decrease from 60 per 100 000 before 1994. So we have a huge problem, I have been mugged once by gun point and once by knife point.
But, most of our crime is very localized. During Apartheid almost all of our crime was outside white areas (Which was strictly kept white) so white people generally did not believe we had any crime at all. Currently 90% of our murders happen in 10% of our Police precinct areas. And these areas are usually in very dense and poor shanty towns. To give an example, the area where I live has a murder rate of 4 per 100 000. Not the best in the world, but among the safest areas in London. About 10km away is another Area where the murder rate is above 50 per 100 000. It is more dangerous there than Iraq at the peak of the war. Most of our murder is domestic violence. I do a lot of work with our Police and Prison services, and can give you real stats if you want.

There is no truely safe area in RSA, but in my neighborhood you can find women Jogging alone at 4 am to 7 pm all the time. Farm attacks are a big issue as they are venerable targets with slower police response times. But that seems to be a lot better this year already.
The open rape and murder of white people is pure rubbish. Sometimes our police system fucks up and people get away due to bad police work, but this is not unique to RSA.

Employment - When Nelson Mandela took over he introduced Black Economic Empowerment (BEE - or its various forms such as BBBEE) The idea was to "Correct the wrongs of the past" by getting more black people in a position of management and employment. The idea may have been noble, but It did not result in any improvement in inequality, all it seems to have done was slow down the economy. But it wins loads of political points, so it is probably here to stay. What it did was to create a preferential system of employment for Government Work. So for government jobs they would always chose a black person over a white person with the same qualification. However, it just leads to corruption.
HOWEVER, the private sector does not need to comply with this, especially if you dont trade with the goverment. This means that our private sector has been doing quite well without the additional head winds. And in reality, the unemployment rate by White Males in South Africa is really low. Last I checked it was at about 4%. But it could be as high as 7%. Again, I can find stats for you if you want.
For black Males, the unemployment rate is well above 40%


Electricity - One of the big issues we currently face (lets pretend Covid19 is not a big issue) is our electrical supply. Remember the Zuma guy I mentioned earlier. Well he really was corrupt as fuck, and ran our electrical grid into the ground to keep his buddies in control of the coal supply. The BEE systems did not help either, as all of our competent engineers left and where replaced by who ever passed the colour chart test. Since the Apartheid era, only the Government was allowed to produce electricity to the grid. We have had load shedding, which is controlled power outages on a schedule (so you can plan) to not crash the entire grid system. The worst has been 6 hours long in a day (not all at once) for 2 days in a row. We will probably see 2 hour load shedding when we end lockdown again. This has been a headache and murder to our economy.
Our new president has pushed to allow private investors to build renewable energy, gotten rid of red tape which mandated government monopoly over generation and seems to be pushing back against the unions. So it seems as if the light at the end of the tunnel may not be a train for once.


Overall its a mixed bag. There is good and bad.


If you focus on the bad its hell. I see improvement, especially as I work with the goverment in various departments. Our youth seem a lot less interested in the past than the older generations who just want revenge. Also, South Africa is big, so there is a differnt vibe in each area. I came from a super conservative racists area, the Free State, and am now in what seems to be a lot less of all of that, in Durban. So each persons experience will vary.


I love it here, have lots of freedom, its not that bad.


Ask my anything else if I have not answered it, or want more clarity.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2020, 11:36:33 PM »
Or forgot to put, the reason they left besides what I stated earlier is they defended themselves against one of the attacks allowed towards them while they were at their business. It was against him and his two sons (he had the scars to prove it, so did his one son).

However, since they defended themselves and hurt a few of the black people in the process they were going to be put in jail while the others were not punished. For reasons stated above, obviously jail was not an option.
Specifically want to answer this one separately.

In South African law, you may defend yourself or someone else from harm. But property may not be protected by violence, thats what we have the cops and legal protection for (as good or bad as they are) Our law never places property above human life.

A lot of people dont actually know our law, and end up shooting and killing people for trespassing on their property, and as such, lots of people go to jail for murder, believing they where right to kill someone else.
As a result of these cases, a lot of people think you may not defend yourself at all. Which is stupid and not true. Or still have the idea that you may shoot someone just because they are in your property.
Often, people just seem angry that they dont get a chance to shoot someone.

My wife is a Barrister, so I am no stranger to the actual law in RSA vs the perceived law.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

Rayzor

  • 12111
  • Looking for Occam
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2020, 12:09:52 AM »
Or forgot to put, the reason they left besides what I stated earlier is they defended themselves against one of the attacks allowed towards them while they were at their business. It was against him and his two sons (he had the scars to prove it, so did his one son).

However, since they defended themselves and hurt a few of the black people in the process they were going to be put in jail while the others were not punished. For reasons stated above, obviously jail was not an option.
Specifically want to answer this one separately.

In South African law, you may defend yourself or someone else from harm. But property may not be protected by violence, thats what we have the cops and legal protection for (as good or bad as they are) Our law never places property above human life.

A lot of people dont actually know our law, and end up shooting and killing people for trespassing on their property, and as such, lots of people go to jail for murder, believing they where right to kill someone else.
As a result of these cases, a lot of people think you may not defend yourself at all. Which is stupid and not true. Or still have the idea that you may shoot someone just because they are in your property.
Often, people just seem angry that they dont get a chance to shoot someone.

My wife is a Barrister, so I am no stranger to the actual law in RSA vs the perceived law.

I worked on a contract job a few years back with an ex pat South African,  he used to tell some horrific stories about how easily police were bribed.   More than once a black burglar was taken away by vigilante whites and never seen again,  while the black police would just look the other way in return for a few paltry meal vouchers.   1 life == a big mac and a milkshake. 

I don't know if I believed him about the vigilante killings or not,  but he was no fan of Jacob Zuma.  and had no desire to ever go back to SA.

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2020, 12:57:27 AM »
Yeah poor white men. Black people bad!
#DefinitelyNotRacist
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 01:14:50 AM by Definitely Not Swedish »
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2020, 01:32:32 AM »
I worked on a contract job a few years back with an ex pat South African,  he used to tell some horrific stories about how easily police were bribed.   More than once a black burglar was taken away by vigilante whites and never seen again,  while the black police would just look the other way in return for a few paltry meal vouchers.   1 life == a big mac and a milkshake. 

I don't know if I believed him about the vigilante killings or not,  but he was no fan of Jacob Zuma.  and had no desire to ever go back to SA.
Lots of people who have left find and hold on to the worst stories they can find to justify their decisions.
There is some truly bad shit that happens here, and in general, its worse than any developed country. But if you think we are not a developed country, we are doing fine. (T'c and C'c apply)
Id rather be an Architect here than the USA or Europe, where you are pushed into a cubicle and told to design doors.

I know quite a few people who have left, their experiences vary, but none of them will get their lifestyle back. Crime is an issue, I cant deny that. And our experience with the Cops vary. They also get tired of arresting the same guy over and over, and can only charge them for trespassing, which is a very minor offence.
The experienced thief's in the bigger cities will away make sure that when they get arrested, they cant be locked up for long. So no guns, no violence. 3 months and they are out.


And I usually find that the same people who complain about bribery and corruption are the first people that will dish out a Mc Dees or R200 to avoid a speeding ticket. I hope all those fuckers get out, because they are a part of the problem.

Our biggest issue is social. We have too many single Moms, or kids with no Parents. AIDS is partially to blame. But this is a complicated issue that goes way back to Apartheid as well.

If it was not for Zuma, we would be a lot further in a lot of our developmental goals than we are now. He was a piece of shit.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 01:35:24 AM by MaNaeSWolf »
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2020, 07:32:40 AM »
How safe was South Africa during the World Cup?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2020, 07:54:23 AM »
How safe was South Africa during the World Cup?
I dont think there where any incidences.
Im sure some tourist got mugged somewhere, or someone took a wrong turn and ended up in Khayelitsha.

But I cant imagine any world cups has Zero issues
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2020, 10:37:02 PM »
Yeah poor white men. Black people bad!
#DefinitelyNotRacist

Considering that is what always comes to your head immediately, it appears you are projecting your own pathetic mentality and disgusting racism.

Get help...
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2020, 10:51:19 PM »
Wolf....

Thanks for the brief but detailed response to a large question. You were neutral and fair as I hoped and expected you to be. Although quite angered and sad from the conversation I spoke about above, I wanted to regroup and continue learning about the subject before placing judgement or misplacing anger.

It is such a huge subject, I will just kind of bounce around on a few things at a time to hopefully prevent the need for long winded answers. These questions will just be at random from parts of the conversation I spoke about in the OP or follow up questions/comments to your answers and comments.



So starting with a few...

Did your leader (I am assuming previous) really get caught sleeping with an 11 year, and in turn change the law to age 11 as legal consent? Also, did he claim he took a shower and their for didn't have to worry about HIV/aids?

Are your sewage systems in severe disarray or not functioning at all?

From my conversation, rather there were lies, embellishments and distorted views or not, one conclusion I feel comfortable with that racial tensions are extremely high/dangerous currently between white and black people. Would you agree with that?

Final question for the moment, not sure if you are white or black (or colored, as I understand that is viewed different there), how do you view the other races/s?

Oh, and one more thing, it's great to hear there might be some leadership to help the power grid disaster. Though from what I was told it is a few years away from repair even with them starting today
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2020, 11:13:15 PM »
Yeah poor white men. Black people bad!
#DefinitelyNotRacist

Considering that is what always comes to your head immediately, it appears you are projecting your own pathetic mentality and disgusting racism.

Get help...

You literally just made a long post hating on black people, based purely on anecdotal evidence (possibly completely made up) with nothing to support your claims. Of course I am going to call you out for your crap.

Don't want me to call you out for posting racist bullshit? Simple, just don't be a racist bullshitter.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 11:17:19 PM by Definitely Not Swedish »
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2020, 11:20:42 PM »
Did your leader (I am assuming previous) really get caught sleeping with an 11 year, and in turn change the law to age 11 as legal consent? Also, did he claim he took a shower and their for didn't have to worry about HIV/aids?

See, for example this would take you 10s of google to disprove it.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

Pezevenk

  • 15363
  • Militant aporfyrodrakonist
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2020, 11:42:04 PM »
Yeah poor white men. Black people bad!
#DefinitelyNotRacist

Considering that is what always comes to your head immediately, it appears you are projecting your own pathetic mentality and disgusting racism.

Get help...

You literally just made a long post hating on black people, based purely on anecdotal evidence (possibly completely made up) with nothing to support your claims. Of course I am going to call you out for your crap.

Don't want me to call you out for posting racist bullshit? Simple, just don't be a racist bullshitter.

Yeah considering I know some people who actually are kinda racist but lived for a few years there and they didn't say anything remotely close to any of that, my anecdotal evidence says different than his anecdotal evidence soooo I'm gonna call bullshit lol.
Member of the BOTD for Anti Fascism and Racism

It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
-Intikam (again)

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2020, 01:38:43 AM »
Wolf....

Thanks for the brief but detailed response to a large question. You were neutral and fair as I hoped and expected you to be. Although quite angered and sad from the conversation I spoke about above, I wanted to regroup and continue learning about the subject before placing judgement or misplacing anger.

It is such a huge subject, I will just kind of bounce around on a few things at a time to hopefully prevent the need for long winded answers. These questions will just be at random from parts of the conversation I spoke about in the OP or follow up questions/comments to your answers and comments.
Cool, Id love to chat about South Africa.

Quote
So starting with a few...

Did your leader (I am assuming previous) really get caught sleeping with an 11 year, and in turn change the law to age 11 as legal consent? Also, did he claim he took a shower and their for didn't have to worry about HIV/aids?
Our previous President was Jacob Zuma.
No, he did not get caught sleeping with an 11 year old. Although I would not be suprised if he did somewhere. He really is an asshole. Our current legal age of consent is 18, so no, that is just BS.
He DID in fact take a shower to stop himself from getting HIV/AIDS after sleeping with a prostitute. This came up in a legal battle before he became president as the prostitute claimed he raped her. However, there was plenty of evidence that she got a lot of money from other sources after she charged him for rape. So as much as I hate him, I dont think he raped her. But he is still fucking stupid.
One of our famous political artists still draws Zuma with a shower head on his head to remeber that stupid thing he did.
https://www.zapiro.com/component/zoo/advanced-search/169?Itemid=464

Quote
Are your sewage systems in severe disarray or not functioning at all?
It depends where you are talking about.
We have a lot of cities, and each city manages itself.
Some are 100% a complete F#%$ up, and others run very smoothly.
I live in a city that has been given multiple international awards for water clarity to environmental protections.
I bet I can find an american city with a F$%# up sewage system too, its does not mean its the same everywhere.

What I can say, is that a lot of under-qualified people are put in place to run services that eventually go to shit (pun intended). A lot of our small towns are currently facing these issues, and it seems our current president has some real plans to fix these issues. We have a lot of corruption and ineptitude to deal with.

Quote
From my conversation, rather there were lies, embellishments and distorted views or not, one conclusion I feel comfortable with that racial tensions are extremely high/dangerous currently between white and black people. Would you agree with that?
This varies so much from area to area. There is still a lot of blame being placed on white people for everything that is bad. Apartheid gets blamed for a lot of things that are clearly bought on by the current political party. Literally even Covid19 was blamed on "White Colonists" by some people. And it goes the other way round too, some white people still treat black people as trash and sub human.

But again, this depends on a lot of factors.

From my perspective white people do get judged at a much higher standard than black people when it comes to racism. A white person is much more likely to be penalized for racism than a black person. There are Political parties that thrive off blaming white people for the current woes of the day. But I wont say that there is real mass hatred or violence towards white people. Most people are just trying to get by, very few actually give a shit what someone else is doing, black or white. Its still MUCH easier being the average white person than the average black person in RSA.
Most black people would treat white people much better than other black people. There is still a real issue of black people feeling inferior to white people. Which I find sad, as people should see themselves as equals.

Occasionally, you get hate crimes where black people would attack, rape, torture and murder people on farms. Its rare and always makes big news, but happens. This strongly forces people opinions on what they think is normal, when in fact I know its not normal.

There is the concept of "system memory", where what happened in the past lingers in a system. We have a complicated past that made a lot of people hate. So that is def still there. USA still has this issue. But you dont fix hate with hate, and as a country most people see that.

Quote
Final question for the moment, not sure if you are white or black (or colored, as I understand that is viewed different there), how do you view the other races/s?
This is hard to answer. Racism is an issue of bias, and it is hard to know your own bias.
I try to view people as individuals regardless of race/sex. I have a black business partner that I have a lot more respect for than a LOT of white people. He is more disciplined, moral, hard working and generally a better person than 80% of the people out there regardless of genetics. So Race is nothing but a social construct. Your past (by extension, your upbringing and environment) influences who you are, more than genetics.

I got a lot of friction for my non racial views in university and boarding, which was 95% white. To the point where my rooms was raided, robbed and messed up multiple times. So any views that white people are superior to other races where fixed by then.
Quote
Oh, and one more thing, it's great to hear there might be some leadership to help the power grid disaster. Though from what I was told it is a few years away from repair even with them starting today
Our grid is properly fucked, no soft way to say it. Its what happens when no maintenance happens for 20 years.
The fix is simple, let the private sector finance and contribute to the grid. Which was blocked by government until recently, very much because of our unions.
So I dont see our government fixing the grid anytime soon, but I do see private individuals and companies building renewables such as solar and wind to get us out of the shit a lot sooner. We have lots of sun.
I am currently involved with our municipality to develop a framework to get Durban 100% onto renewable energy in 30 years time. The private sector makes up a very big part of that drive.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2020, 01:47:22 AM »
Final question for the moment, not sure if you are white or black (or colored, as I understand that is viewed different there), how do you view the other races/s?
Forgot to answer this.
Using the american definition of how you classify some racial groups. I identify as European-African
aka, Caucasian.
My family line has been in South Africa since about 1660.

South Africa has about a million "coloured" people, what you would call mixed race. If you called them "mixed race" here, they would slap you. We also have about a million Indian people here. And who knows how many Chinese.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2020, 03:02:52 AM »
Typical pathetic nonsense

Typical pathetic nonsense, pattycake!

Oh look, it's the site's star Dunning-Kruger test subjects showing their skill set once again. What a typical pathetic embarrassment.

Yes, I made a post specifically stating what was told to me by a convincing family with their own proof of said statements. Instead of taking it as gospel, I asked specifically wolf as I respect his opinion and figured I would get a pretty neutral and informed response.

So yes, searching for more information and not forming an instant hatred etc is exactly what racists do.

Genius!


Get lost and continue being useless in life without bugging me.

Thanks
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2020, 03:15:06 AM »
Wolf...

Interesting, sounds like it is a minority (white and black) on both sides trying to keep racism alive while the majority is rejecting it. Also with the media sensationalizing rare events in hopes of scaring people into thinking they are wide spread. Doesn't sound much different than here to be honest.

I am sorry you have been attacked for not supporting racist views, says a lot about your character.

I am trying to find figure out what this family's deal was... I know for a fact they left South Africa and left everything behind including multiple businesses. I also know the scars that were shown were within 6 months or so which fits their timeline for the attack they spoke of. Maybe they were defending their property, because it was at their business. Thus, causing them to be bitter and exaggerate/fabricate some of their stories.

When you say you are not allowed to use violence to protect your property...

Let's say you are a farmer and people are trying to take your land.... You have to call the police for that and cannot take it in your own hands? (Example, in Texas you could shoot/kill those people trying to take your land by force and the law would support you)

What about in your situation of being mugged (sorry you had to go through that).... You are in fear of your life while someone has you at knife point demanding your wallet. You fight back, in fear of your life and end up hurting or killing the mugger. Even though they were asking for your wallet, you were in fear of your life. Would the law be on your side?

Also, any truth to China buying up land rights there?
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2020, 03:24:55 AM »
Yes, I made a post specifically stating what was told to me by a convincing family with their own proof of said statements. Instead of taking it as gospel, I asked specifically wolf as I respect his opinion and figured I would get a pretty neutral and informed response.

Ah right, sorry, my bad I didn't realize it was just a racist repeating what other racists said. Then it's completely okay.


Seriously tho, you could have disproven many of your points with 10sec of googling... But you wanted to share those retarded anecdotal stories.
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2020, 04:03:36 AM »
Wolf...

Interesting, sounds like it is a minority (white and black) on both sides trying to keep racism alive while the majority is rejecting it. Also with the media sensationalizing rare events in hopes of scaring people into thinking they are wide spread. Doesn't sound much different than here to be honest.
I think we are generally better than the US as our media is not as desperate for attention as yours. We have a higher ranking for freedom of speech than the USA as well, so maybe that plays a part?
Quote
I am sorry you have been attacked for not supporting racist views, says a lot about your character.
What does not kill you makes you stronger and such

Quote
I am trying to find figure out what this family's deal was... I know for a fact they left South Africa and left everything behind including multiple businesses. I also know the scars that were shown were within 6 months or so which fits their timeline for the attack they spoke of. Maybe they were defending their property, because it was at their business. Thus, causing them to be bitter and exaggerate/fabricate some of their stories.
Im am sure they where victims of crime if they say they where. A lot of people have left due to fear of additional violence, which is understandable. As I mentioned some areas are really bad, and those people would often chose to leave RSA than neighborhoods as they think its like that everywhere.

To understand them, you need to understand echo chambers.
I know lots of people like that, that constantly share BS stories. They cant see the facts from the truth because all they see is fear. I have recently had to debunk a photo of a train shooting that "happens every day in RSA" according to the title, where the image was actually from the Netherlands (Reverse google search with the actual story of a movie prop) which I got from an Australian friend. If this is the kind of stuff you see and share everyday then this is the reality you build up.
I dont think they are lying, they just dont actually know the truth, as most people dont. They will reject positive news and hold onto negative news. This does not make them bad people, as I think at least 30% of all people are like this (my Mother being one of them)

When you mix these issues together, its understandable that they dont want to come back to RSA.

Quote
When you say you are not allowed to use violence to protect your property...

Let's say you are a farmer and people are trying to take your land.... You have to call the police for that and cannot take it in your own hands? (Example, in Texas you could shoot/kill those people trying to take your land by force and the law would support you)

The USA is actually more unique in this than South Africa is. If people storm your farm to take your land, you call the cops and they remove and jail them for trespassing. Then you carry on as normal the next day. That is the point of having a government in the first place. I dont know of any place other than the USA where it is legal to shoot someone for just being on your farm. Heck, in some countries you may not even put up fences to stop people from walking through it.

We have Rule of Law, it works most of the time, but there are gaps.

Quote
What about in your situation of being mugged (sorry you had to go through that).... You are in fear of your life while someone has you at knife point demanding your wallet. You fight back, in fear of your life and end up hurting or killing the mugger. Even though they were asking for your wallet, you were in fear of your life. Would the law be on your side?

The Law would absolutely be on my side. If 3 people mugged my, and I feared for my life and shot all 3, id walk away free without much issues. There are LOTS of cases like this, its legal to own a firearm and use it if you need to protect yourself or someone else. If someone with a knife is directly threatening my wife, and I feel her life is in danger, I could blow him to bits with the courts on my side.

Quote
Also, any truth to China buying up land rights there?
They can buy up land, and the normal rights apply to them. But so can you and anyone else.
We have more complicated mineral rights though, so they cant just buy up land and mine it.

BTW, we are currently also facing complex issues around land redistribution and property rights at the moment. But wont go into that unless you ask.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 04:06:11 AM by MaNaeSWolf »
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

Wolvaccine

  • EXTRA SPICY MODE
  • 25833
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2020, 02:01:41 PM »
Yes, I made a post specifically stating what was told to me by a convincing family with their own proof of said statements. Instead of taking it as gospel, I asked specifically wolf as I respect his opinion and figured I would get a pretty neutral and informed response.

Ah right, sorry, my bad I didn't realize it was just a racist repeating what other racists said. Then it's completely okay.


Seriously tho, you could have disproven many of your points with 10sec of googling... But you wanted to share those retarded anecdotal stories.

Why Google when you can get first hand information? Google is also full of nonsense too

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

Crouton

  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crimes and Misdemeanors
  • Planar Moderator
  • 16338
  • Djinn
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2020, 02:12:25 PM »
Gentlemen, let's keep things civil and on topic.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2020, 05:35:08 PM »
Yes, I made a post specifically stating what was told to me by a convincing family with their own proof of said statements. Instead of taking it as gospel, I asked specifically wolf as I respect his opinion and figured I would get a pretty neutral and informed response.

Ah right, sorry, my bad I didn't realize it was just a racist repeating what other racists said. Then it's completely okay.


Seriously tho, you could have disproven many of your points with 10sec of googling... But you wanted to share those retarded anecdotal stories.

Why Google when you can get first hand information? Google is also full of nonsense too

You are wasting your breath with them.

Gentlemen, let's keep things civil and on topic.

Care to specify who you are talking to?

There are only two SFBs in this thread causing any issue.
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

Crouton

  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crimes and Misdemeanors
  • Planar Moderator
  • 16338
  • Djinn
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2020, 05:39:53 PM »
Yes, I made a post specifically stating what was told to me by a convincing family with their own proof of said statements. Instead of taking it as gospel, I asked specifically wolf as I respect his opinion and figured I would get a pretty neutral and informed response.

Ah right, sorry, my bad I didn't realize it was just a racist repeating what other racists said. Then it's completely okay.


Seriously tho, you could have disproven many of your points with 10sec of googling... But you wanted to share those retarded anecdotal stories.

Why Google when you can get first hand information? Google is also full of nonsense too

You are wasting your breath with them.

Gentlemen, let's keep things civil and on topic.

Care to specify who you are talking to?

There are only two SFBs in this thread causing any issue.

I believe the troublemakers know who they are.
Intelligentia et magnanimitas vincvnt violentiam et desperationem.
The truth behind NASA's budget

*

Bom Tishop

  • 11197
  • Official friend boy of the FES!!
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2020, 06:37:59 PM »
I believe the troublemakers know who they are.

Do they though?

Does someone suffering from anorexia realize they are too skinny?
Quote from: Bom Tishop
LordDave is quite alright even for a bleeding heart liberal. Godspeed good sir

*

Wolvaccine

  • EXTRA SPICY MODE
  • 25833
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2020, 07:09:23 PM »
I think the entire continent of Africa has a bad rep. Some of it caused by so called well meaning organisations

Growing up, my only feed about Africa came from TV ads pleading for our money to donate to all the poor people

As a kid, I envisioned the whole continent in poverty, starving, diseased, dying of thirst, mostly homeless etc...

Fear sells. MSM is not going to tell us about anything good Africa does. If there are scientists there making good discoveries, you'll never hear about them. Miley Cyrus twerking is bigger news. You'll only hear the disturbing rates of violent crime or hideous disease outbreaks. It doesn't matter that America also has disturbing rates of homicide in areas. Or if there are corrupt government ministers there. You'll only get the good with America, followed by the bad of Africa

Africa needs way better PR and they should frankly dump those charity groups who probably reap a tonne in admin costs before the intended use of the charity donation gets to where the giver wanted anyway. Most rich governments from countries usually set aside billions in their foreign aid budget for these purposes. If I donate a dollar a day, maybe that kid I sponsor gets a few cents anyway. All the while these good will organisations taint Africa's image

Of course, there is still truth to the hideous corruption in African politics and law. And there are many places in Africa which would be very dangerous (especially for foreigners) to travel but many countries have this too. There would be places in North America which aren't safe to live. I'd visit many parts of Africa before I'd step foot in Central America

It's refreshing to hear from someone who lives there rather than reading from some random online


Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2020, 11:32:32 PM »
I think the entire continent of Africa has a bad rep. Some of it caused by so called well meaning organisations

Growing up, my only feed about Africa came from TV ads pleading for our money to donate to all the poor people

As a kid, I envisioned the whole continent in poverty, starving, diseased, dying of thirst, mostly homeless etc...

Fear sells. MSM is not going to tell us about anything good Africa does. If there are scientists there making good discoveries, you'll never hear about them. Miley Cyrus twerking is bigger news. You'll only hear the disturbing rates of violent crime or hideous disease outbreaks. It doesn't matter that America also has disturbing rates of homicide in areas. Or if there are corrupt government ministers there. You'll only get the good with America, followed by the bad of Africa

Africa needs way better PR and they should frankly dump those charity groups who probably reap a tonne in admin costs before the intended use of the charity donation gets to where the giver wanted anyway. Most rich governments from countries usually set aside billions in their foreign aid budget for these purposes. If I donate a dollar a day, maybe that kid I sponsor gets a few cents anyway. All the while these good will organisations taint Africa's image

Of course, there is still truth to the hideous corruption in African politics and law. And there are many places in Africa which would be very dangerous (especially for foreigners) to travel but many countries have this too. There would be places in North America which aren't safe to live. I'd visit many parts of Africa before I'd step foot in Central America

It's refreshing to hear from someone who lives there rather than reading from some random online
Africa is an entire continent with hundreds of languages and thousands of cultures. Just South Africa alone has 11 official languages. But Africa has not really had an impact on the world outside of the Continent (Other than raw resources) so it is not surprising that very little is known about it from westerners. You get to learn more about a country/place the more you interact with it, so travel, media, or contact with people from there. Africa has very little to offer the world in that regard. There is no big Hollywood, or cool products like Ikea, Samsung or Facebook. There is very little reason for anyone to know anything about Africa, outside of investors.

And then Africa (in general) is poor. Its poor mostly because it historically did not trade with the rest of the world very much. With low levels of trade, there was low levels of innovation. And when the Europeans came, Africa could not hold onto its own land, and essentially sold it off (Like most of South Africa) or simply lost it due to some asshat with a gun and a flag. Africa as a whole is rapidly advancing though. Sub-Saharan Africa did not have the wheel 400 years ago, it was bought down with Europeans. So there was a huge gap in development. Id give it another generation (25ish years) then Africa would be a real player in Global trade.

Of course, I have to mention that all of this is a vast generalization, because different places are different. Egypt is in Africa and home to many firsts for civilization as an example.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2020, 01:39:23 AM »
And then Africa (in general) is poor. Its poor mostly because it historically did not trade with the rest of the world very much. With low levels of trade, there was low levels of innovation. And when the Europeans came, Africa could not hold onto its own land, and essentially sold it off (Like most of South Africa) or simply lost it due to some asshat with a gun and a flag. Africa as a whole is rapidly advancing though. Sub-Saharan Africa did not have the wheel 400 years ago, it was bought down with Europeans. So there was a huge gap in development. Id give it another generation (25ish years) then Africa would be a real player in Global trade.

Of course, I have to mention that all of this is a vast generalization, because different places are different. Egypt is in Africa and home to many firsts for civilization as an example.
Don't forget that Elon Musk came from Pretoria, South Africa ;).
But maybe you'd prefer it not known that Sid James also came from South Africa :).

*

MaNaeSWolf

  • 2623
  • Show me the evidence
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2020, 10:11:21 PM »
Yeah,I dont think Elon has any interest in improving RSA's relations with the rest of the world though.
When ever someone from RSA leaves to make it big elsewhere, they seem to leave everything behind.
Not that I think they need be public PR for RSA.
I also dont blame them, South Africas GDP hardly rivals Skittles revenue.
If you move fast enough, everything appears flat

*

Definitely Not Swedish

  • rutabaga
  • 8309
  • Flat Earth Inspector General of High Fashion Crime
Re: To MaNaeSWolf or anyone else in South Africa
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2020, 01:40:18 AM »
Yes, I made a post specifically stating what was told to me by a convincing family with their own proof of said statements. Instead of taking it as gospel, I asked specifically wolf as I respect his opinion and figured I would get a pretty neutral and informed response.

Ah right, sorry, my bad I didn't realize it was just a racist repeating what other racists said. Then it's completely okay.


Seriously tho, you could have disproven many of your points with 10sec of googling... But you wanted to share those retarded anecdotal stories.

Why Google when you can get first hand information? Google is also full of nonsense too
You realize you can find constitutions, laws and very trustworthy news article with google?
But sure you are right, asking an individual on the flat earth society to get his opinion in hope it will confirm your racist bias is way better than actually checking what the law says and looking up what actually happened!
Quote from: croutons, the s.o.w.
You have received a warning for breaking the laws of mathematics.

Member of the BOTD
Sign up here.