Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?

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JJA

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #630 on: March 03, 2021, 11:57:09 AM »
Only an idiot would be trying to get people to not wear masks in the middle of a pandemic because they are so ignorant they think masks are bad for you. If they are wearing them wrong, educating them to wear them right is the solution, not to take them off.

Nobody is saying the pandemic is WORSE because of mask wearing, not even your source which you failed to fully understand, again.

Wear your damn mask.

Stop giving medical advice. You are not a medical professional. You have zero credentials. I cited the advice of a medical professional who says that masks are ineffective and are more likely to be detrimental than helpful.

By claiming that the public "needs more education" you admit that the advice "wear a mask" is insufficient and wrong. The simple fact is that people are simply not going to buy and wear 8 different new masks a day, as not to re-use masks. And nor are they going to wear the more restrictive n-95 over cloth masks.

You should take your own advice and stop peddling your insane conspiracy theory ranting as advice.

Cherry-picking bits out of quacks and random web pages to try and encourage people not to wear masks in the middle of a pandemic makes you not only ignorant but someone who is TRYING to make more people catch disease.  That's stick, and you should be ashamed.  But you have zero self awareness so you are going to just continue wandering along like an idiot spreading your nonsense.

For once in your life Tom, stop with the argumentative bullshit, stop twisting facts and just do what actual doctors tell you.

Are you really so clueless or are you so deep in your anti-everything that you can't even recognize when you should just stop and quit trying to hurt people? If there was ever any evidence you have lost your mind, this is it.

All you cited was your cherry picked bullshit which goes against the advice of every health department on the planet.  Non of them are saying to not  wear a mask.

Quit your bullshit.  Not that anyone is going to pay attention to you here anyway, but it makes me sad to think you are probably telling people you know not to wear masks, and that's just hurting the ones you care about. 

What will you be saying next, telling people to stop washing their hands and start licking used medical equipment? Drinking bleach?

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JJA

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #631 on: March 03, 2021, 11:58:48 AM »
Why not just quote yourself while you are at it and claim that you know better than doctors? As I said, pathetic.

Oh my god.  The irony here is truly at insane levels.

Is Tom Bishop, the guy who loves to constantly quote his own Wiki articles telling someone to not quote themselves?

LOL

Pathetic indeed.  ::)

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #632 on: March 03, 2021, 12:01:35 PM »
Sorry, this Dr's POV is highly questionable:

Yet you accept the Astronomia Nova, where Kepler faked and forged each and every data.

Yet you accept the Principia, even though Newton practiced alchemy.


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Stash

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #633 on: March 03, 2021, 12:05:29 PM »
Quote
Your sources are outdated like it was points out to you. Science isn’t static.

Really? The study of the effectiveness of masks during viral pandemics was never thought about until the last year? In July 2020 Jim Meehan MD said:

Sorry, this Dr's POV is highly questionable:

"In his Twitter bio, Meehan lists hashtags for “Medical Freedom,” a popular tag for the anti-vaccine movement, and for QAnon, a far-right fringe conspiracy that believes a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles runs a child sex-trafficking ring across the world that also schemes against President Donald Trump."

Any anti-vaxxer + Qanon proponent obviously is suspect when it comes to common sense. And he's an ophthalmologist. Nothing wrong with that, but the specialty doesn't make him an expert in virology. Who's next on your list, a pediatrist?

What does the slogan "Medical Freedom" have to do with Qanon? It sounds like you understand don't really have much here and need to pathetically resort to random internet comments. The person who wrote that describes herself as a "business writer".

Who is the doctor, Jim Meehan MD, or the person who wrote the comment that you found online?

Answer: Jim Meehan MD is the doctor, and not the random internet commenter.

Why not just quote yourself while you are at it and claim that you know better than doctors?

Cook has attempted to launch his own social media properties: Covid-19 Refusers — which features a 14-part video indoctrination on why to reject vaccination — as well as Medical Freedom Patriots: a $5-a-month, subscription-based group he touts as “Anti Vaccine, Pro Alternative Medicine, QAnon friendly.”
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/qanon-anti-vax-covid-vaccine-conspiracy-theory-1125197/

QAnon believers spread false claims about COVID-19 vaccine touted by Trump
https://news.yahoo.com/q-anon-believers-spread-false-claims-about-covid-vaccine-touted-by-trump-161151862.html

At a minimum, he's an anti-vaxxer. If you want to put medical stock in that, feel free. I do not.

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Stash

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #634 on: March 03, 2021, 12:08:40 PM »
Sorry, this Dr's POV is highly questionable:

Yet you accept the Astronomia Nova, where Kepler faked and forged each and every data.

Yet you accept the Principia, even though Newton practiced alchemy.

I'm pretty sure we built upon their work and learned a little something in the past 400-500 years. I'm referring to a guy in 2021. But nice strawman attempt.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #635 on: March 03, 2021, 12:36:27 PM »
Cherry-picking bits out of quacks and random web pages to try and encourage people not to wear masks in the middle of a pandemic makes you not only ignorant but someone who is TRYING to make more people catch disease.  That's stick, and you should be ashamed.  But you have zero self awareness so you are going to just continue wandering along like an idiot spreading your nonsense.

You are simply not a doctor, and you are not a medical researcher. You have not presented any credentials to us for your opinion and are merely saying that these doctors quoted are wrong.

Another doctor recommends against masks:

Face masks can ‘increase risk’ of catching coronavirus - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11079052/face-masks-increase-risk-coronavirus/

    Infection prevention specialist Eli Perencevich, a professor of medicine and epidemiology at the University of Iowa’s College of Medicine, said on Twitter: “Masks won’t protect the average person.

    "Because they will wear them incorrectly and autocontaminate themselves."

    Prof Perencevich added: "I’ve never seen a person practice hand hygiene before removing a mask in public and then after removing the mask."

    He told Forbes that the average healthy person does not need to have a mask.

    “There’s no evidence that wearing masks on healthy people will protect them,” he said.

Oh, but I guess you know better than this infection prevention specialist and professor of medicine and epidemiology.  ::)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 12:43:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #636 on: March 03, 2021, 12:43:15 PM »
Almost every spreader of Covid, spread it while they were feeling fit and well.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Stash

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #637 on: March 03, 2021, 12:49:51 PM »
Cherry-picking bits out of quacks and random web pages to try and encourage people not to wear masks in the middle of a pandemic makes you not only ignorant but someone who is TRYING to make more people catch disease.  That's stick, and you should be ashamed.  But you have zero self awareness so you are going to just continue wandering along like an idiot spreading your nonsense.

You are simply not a doctor, and you are not a medical researcher. You have not presented any credentials to us for your opinion and are merely saying that these doctors quoted are wrong.

Another doctor recommends against masks:

Face masks can ‘increase risk’ of catching coronavirus - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11079052/face-masks-increase-risk-coronavirus/

    Infection prevention specialist Eli Perencevich, a professor of medicine and epidemiology at the University of Iowa’s College of Medicine, said on Twitter: “Masks won’t protect the average person.

    "Because they will wear them incorrectly and autocontaminate themselves."

    Prof Perencevich added: "I’ve never seen a person practice hand hygiene before removing a mask in public and then after removing the mask."

    He told Forbes that the average healthy person does not need to have a mask.

    “There’s no evidence that wearing masks on healthy people will protect them,” he said.

Oh, but I guess you know better than this infection prevention specialist and professor of medicine and epidemiology.  ::)

So are the masks a problem or is touching yourself a problem? Note to self: Don't touch your mask or your face. Also, wear seat belts when driving.

As per usual, you left out the good Dr's last quote from the article:

"This sophisticated kit is likely to be more rigorous, more useful, but actually it's perfectly reasonable to wear a bandana around your mouth or whatever, that will work. It won't be quite as good but it will be good enough."



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JJA

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #638 on: March 03, 2021, 12:51:24 PM »
Cherry-picking bits out of quacks and random web pages to try and encourage people not to wear masks in the middle of a pandemic makes you not only ignorant but someone who is TRYING to make more people catch disease.  That's stick, and you should be ashamed.  But you have zero self awareness so you are going to just continue wandering along like an idiot spreading your nonsense.

You are simply not a doctor, and you are not a medical researcher. You have not presented any credentials to us for your opinion and are merely saying that these doctors quoted are wrong.

Jesus. Take your own advice Tom and stop spouting your conspiracy theory based bullshit.

You are going against the entire medical community with your crackpot 'advice' not to wear masks. You're a danger to yourself and others.

I know that cherry-picking quotes you don't understand is your MO but try to keep it to things that don't encourage people to harm themselves and others and stop acting like a total moron.

You haven't presented anything but your own delusions.

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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #639 on: March 03, 2021, 12:54:20 PM »
Quote
Your sources are outdated like it was points out to you. Science isn’t static.

Really? The study of the effectiveness of masks during viral pandemics was never thought about until the last year? In July 2020 Jim Meehan MD said:

...
You are trying to appeal to authority to disprove experimentation. Their words will not disprove research and studies.
Have a read although it's probably too advanced for you but it's actually proper work.
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Once again some people's opinions will not disprove science.


Only an idiot would be trying to get people to not wear masks in the middle of a pandemic because they are so ignorant they think masks are bad for you. If they are wearing them wrong, educating them to wear them right is the solution, not to take them off.

Nobody is saying the pandemic is WORSE because of mask wearing, not even your source which you failed to fully understand, again.

Wear your damn mask.

Stop giving medical advice. You are not a medical professional. You have zero credentials. ...

This you?

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16046.0

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=3192.0

Yeah, shut the fuck up.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #640 on: March 03, 2021, 12:56:00 PM »
Sorry, this Dr's POV is highly questionable:

Yet you accept the Astronomia Nova, where Kepler faked and forged each and every data.

Yet you accept the Principia, even though Newton practiced alchemy.

You say colors don't exist but know say quantized EM radiation exists. Also apparently now covid came from outer space.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #641 on: March 03, 2021, 01:22:11 PM »
You are trying to appeal to authority to disprove experimentation. Their words will not disprove research and studies.

Actually, the studies said that the masks were ineffective.

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/assets/info/ppih/if-ppih-covid-19-sag-mask-use-in-community-rapid-review.pdf

"Systematic reviews of randomized controlled trials in health care settings have not demonstrated a significant reduction in acute respiratory infections, (ARIs), ILIs or laboratory confirmed viral infections with medical mask use"

"At this point, there is no direct evidence that the use of a medical or homemade cloth mask or the wider use of masks in the community significantly reduces this risk"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343047404_PEER_simplified_tool_mask_use_by_the_general_public_and_by_health_care_workers

"In all three scenerios, wearing a mask did NOT reduce the risk of getting flu-like illness or confirmed influenza"

Quote
This you?

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=16046.0

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=3192.0

The medical research was on my side in those threads by doctors and researchers, just like it is in this one.

Stop being foolish. Show actual evidence and studies in favor of universal mask use rather than uncredentialled rubbish.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 01:32:44 PM by Tom Bishop »

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JJA

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #642 on: March 03, 2021, 01:31:01 PM »
Actually, the studies said that the cloth masks were ineffective.

No, you just cant comprehend anything, even something simple like wearing a mask to reduce the spread of a disease.  But that's nothing new for you.

Amazing idiocy on display here.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #643 on: March 03, 2021, 01:35:26 PM »
Actually, the studies said that the cloth masks were ineffective.

No, you just cant comprehend anything, even something simple like wearing a mask to reduce the spread of a disease.  But that's nothing new for you.

Amazing idiocy on display here.

The only idiocy I see is from some internet rando claiming that multiple doctors and researchers are wrong and that they are right.

Can we see your credentials for this medical advice?

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Stash

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #644 on: March 03, 2021, 01:45:17 PM »
The medical research was on my side in those threads by doctors and researchers, just like it is in this one.

Stop being foolish. Show actual evidence and studies in favor of universal mask use rather than uncredentialled rubbish.

Mask-wearing and control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission in the USA: a cross-sectional study
Jan 19, 2021

"We found that communities with high reported mask-wearing and physical distancing had the highest predicted probability of transmission control...

The widespread reported use of face masks combined with physical distancing increases the odds of SARS-CoV-2 transmission control."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30293-4/fulltext


An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
PNAS January 26, 2021

"Conclusion
Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34)."

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

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JJA

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #645 on: March 03, 2021, 01:45:48 PM »
Actually, the studies said that the cloth masks were ineffective.

No, you just cant comprehend anything, even something simple like wearing a mask to reduce the spread of a disease.  But that's nothing new for you.

Amazing idiocy on display here.

The only idiocy I see is from some internet rando claiming that multiple doctors and researchers are wrong and that they are right.

Can we see your credentials for this medical advice?

LOL

Look in the mirror. A long, hard look.  If you're even capable of any self reflection at all.

Your 'internet rando' name calling and demanding credentials aren't going to work in this discussion. 

All your cherry-picking quotes shows you to be nothing but a lunatic who for whatever reason thinks masks are bad. Probably because you worship Trump and he doesn't like them. Even he said to wear one, is god emperor Trump wrong? Gasp.

Wear your mask, quit spreading your idiotic delusions and conspiracy theories. Try and be a human being for once.

Nobody should be taking their advice from someone who can't understand the difference between a cube and a sphere, and thinks that masks are useless. There is a reason they are used in hospitals.  Quit being a moron.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #646 on: March 03, 2021, 02:05:45 PM »
The medical research was on my side in those threads by doctors and researchers, just like it is in this one.

Stop being foolish. Show actual evidence and studies in favor of universal mask use rather than uncredentialled rubbish.

Mask-wearing and control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission in the USA: a cross-sectional study
Jan 19, 2021

"We found that communities with high reported mask-wearing and physical distancing had the highest predicted probability of transmission control...

The widespread reported use of face masks combined with physical distancing increases the odds of SARS-CoV-2 transmission control."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30293-4/fulltext


An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
PNAS January 26, 2021

"Conclusion
Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34)."

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

That study is based on anonymous internet surveys, and is not controlled.

"In this investigation, mask-wearing was assessed via anonymous internet surveys. Although reported mask-wearing showed a similar geographical distribution to mask-wearing assessed by an alternative instrument (eg, interviews done by the New York Times and Dynata), both of these measures rely on self-reported behaviour and it is unknown how well they are associated with actual user behaviour."

"It is difficult to disentangle individuals' engagement in mask-wearing from their adoption of other preventive hygiene practices, and mask-wearing might be serving as a proxy for other risk avoidance behaviours not queried (eg, avoiding crowded spaces)."

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #647 on: March 03, 2021, 02:15:40 PM »
A meta-analysis of studies:

Masks Are Neither Effective Nor Safe: A Summary Of The Science - https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

" In this meta-analysis, face masks were found to have no detectable effect against transmission of viral infections. (1)  It found: “Compared to no masks, there was no reduction of influenza-like illness cases or influenza for masks in the general population, nor in healthcare workers.”

This 2020 meta-analysis found that evidence from randomized controlled trials of face masks did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility. (2)

Another recent review found that masks had no effect specifically against Covid-19, although facemask use seemed linked to, in 3 of 31 studies, “very slightly reduced” odds of developing influenza-like illness. (3)

This 2019 study of 2862 participants showed that both N95 respirators and surgical masks “resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory confirmed influenza.” (4)

This 2016 meta-analysis found that both randomized controlled trials and observational studies of N95 respirators and surgical masks used by healthcare workers did not show benefit against transmission of acute respiratory infections.  It was also found that acute respiratory infection transmission “may have occurred via contamination of provided respiratory protective equipment during storage and reuse of masks and respirators throughout the workday.” (5)

A 2011 meta-analysis of 17 studies regarding masks and effect on transmission of influenza found that “none of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.” (6)  However, authors speculated that effectiveness of masks may be linked to early, consistent and correct usage.

Face mask use was likewise found to be not protective against the common cold, compared to controls without face masks among healthcare workers. (7)

N95 respirators

Honeywell is a manufacturer of N95 respirators.  These are made with a 0.3 micron filter. (12)  N95 respirators are so named, because 95% of particles having a diameter of 0.3 microns are filtered by the mask forward of the wearer, by use of an electrostatic mechanism. Coronaviruses are approximately 0.125 microns in diameter.

This meta-analysis found that N95 respirators did not provide superior protection to facemasks against viral infections or influenza-like infections. (13)  This study did find superior protection by N95 respirators when they were fit-tested compared to surgical masks. (14)

This study found that 624 out of 714 people wearing N95 masks left visible gaps when putting on their own masks. (15)

Surgical masks

This study found that surgical masks offered no protection at all against influenza. (16) Another study found that surgical masks had about 85% penetration ratio of aerosolized inactivated influenza particles and about 90% of Staphylococcus aureus bacteria, although S aureus particles were about 6x the diameter of influenza particles. (17)

Use of masks in surgery were found to slightly increase incidence of infection over not masking in a study of 3,088 surgeries. (18)  The surgeons’ masks were found to give no protective effect to the patients.

Other studies found no difference in wound infection rates with and without surgical masks. (19) (20)

This study found that “there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination.” (21)

This study found that medical masks have a wide range of filtration efficiency, with most showing a 30% to 50% efficiency. (22)

Specifically, are surgical masks effective in stopping human transmission of coronaviruses?  Both experimental and control groups, masked and unmasked respectively, were found to “not shed detectable virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols.” (23) In that study, they “did not confirm the infectivity of coronavirus” as found in exhaled breath.

A study of aerosol penetration showed that two of the five surgical masks studied had 51% to 89% penetration of polydisperse aerosols.  (24)

In another study, that observed subjects while coughing, “neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered SARS-CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients.”  And more viral particles were found on the outside than on the inside of masks tested. (25)

Cloth masks

Cloth masks were found to have low efficiency for blocking particles of 0.3 microns and smaller.  Aerosol penetration through the various cloth masks examined in this study were between 74 and 90%.  Likewise, the filtration efficiency of fabric materials was 3% to 33% (26)

Healthcare workers wearing cloth masks were found to have 13 times the risk of influenza-like illness than those wearing medical masks. (27)

This 1920 analysis of cloth mask use during the 1918 pandemic examines the failure of masks to impede or stop flu transmission at that time, and concluded that the number of layers of fabric required to prevent pathogen penetration would have required a suffocating number of layers, and could not be used for that reason, as well as the problem of leakage vents around the edges of cloth masks. (28) "
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 02:17:29 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Stash

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #648 on: March 03, 2021, 02:15:49 PM »
The medical research was on my side in those threads by doctors and researchers, just like it is in this one.

Stop being foolish. Show actual evidence and studies in favor of universal mask use rather than uncredentialled rubbish.

Mask-wearing and control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission in the USA: a cross-sectional study
Jan 19, 2021

"We found that communities with high reported mask-wearing and physical distancing had the highest predicted probability of transmission control...

The widespread reported use of face masks combined with physical distancing increases the odds of SARS-CoV-2 transmission control."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landig/article/PIIS2589-7500(20)30293-4/fulltext


An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
PNAS January 26, 2021

"Conclusion
Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34)."

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

That study is based on anonymous internet surveys, and is not controlled.

"In this investigation, mask-wearing was assessed via anonymous internet surveys. Although reported mask-wearing showed a similar geographical distribution to mask-wearing assessed by an alternative instrument (eg, interviews done by the New York Times and Dynata), both of these measures rely on self-reported behaviour and it is unknown how well they are associated with actual user behaviour."

"It is difficult to disentangle individuals' engagement in mask-wearing from their adoption of other preventive hygiene practices, and mask-wearing might be serving as a proxy for other risk avoidance behaviours not queried (eg, avoiding crowded spaces)."

You're only addressing the first paper, not the second paper:

"Randomized control trial evidence that investigated the impact of masks on household transmission during influenza epidemics indicates potential benefit. Suess et al. (21) conducted an RCT that suggests household transmission of influenza can be reduced by the use of nonpharmaceutical interventions, namely the use of face masks and intensified hand hygiene, when implemented early and used diligently."

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Randomized control trials, or RCTs: A randomized controlled trial (RCT) is an experimental form of impact evaluation in which the population receiving the programme or policy intervention is chosen at random from the eligible population, and a control group is also chosen at random from the same eligible population.

Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #649 on: March 03, 2021, 02:27:43 PM »
In fact, due to lack of intelligence, you did not realize that Dr. Viera Scheibner (PhD) had responded to the claim: "Measles epidemic exposes inadequate vaccination coverage in Pakistan" by relying on the below references!
If you have some references that you think support your claim, then link them, not a letter written to a journal.  A letter written by a retired geologist and well known crank.

Quote
Viera Scheibner (Slovak: Viera Scheibnerová; born 27 March 1935, Bratislava) is a Slovak-Australian anti-vaccination activist and retired geologist. From 1958 until 1968 she was assistant professor in the department of geology at Comenius University, Bratislava. Since her retirement from the Department of Mineral Resources, New South Wales, Australia in 1987, Scheibner has been active in the anti-vaccination field, writing and giving lectures opposing vaccines and vaccinations.

A number of critics have questioned her qualifications, research abilities, and honesty.[2][3][4]

Someone with the same medical qualifications as my dog.

If you have some published papers, then link them.  Put up or shut up.


The game is over, Mr. Einstein!

If I can not give the link to the research done by Barratta et al (1970), then you can not conclude that such research has never been done!

If you search it on Google, you will see that in other articles in ScienceDirect and JAMA network, the Barratta et al (1970) has been used by others and they have referenced it!

Look at the below picture!


So accept the truth, Mr. Einstein!
Vaccines are bullshit!




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In the meantime explain how measles deaths dropped from 2.6 million a year to 73,000 in just 24 years?

Herd Immunity in a natural way!
Mortality had dropped by 98 percent in 63 years without vaccination!
Look at the below picture!





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Third generation vaccines will not solve the problem:
That's right!

Vaccines never solved a problem whether first-generation or twentieth generation. they were always a problem in themselves!

Yeah, vaccines never solved a problem:



How high were you when you wrote that?

This has nothing to do with vaccines! The human population always naturally achieves herd immunity. Without even getting a vaccine!

Vaccines have never reduced mortality! On the contrary, they caused more outbreaks and more deaths!

According to Mark Pallansch, a CDC virologist, the oral polio vaccine has created more disease outbreaks than they've stopped. The oral polio vaccine is now responsible for many outbreaks across multiple countries.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/07/surging-cases-have-dashed-all-hope-polio-might-be-eradicated-2019

The switch worked, except in Africa, where type 2 vaccine-derived outbreaks have been more frequent and much harder to stop than the models projected; they are now smoldering in seven countries. By using mOPV2, "We have now created more new emergences of the virus than we have stopped," Pallansch says. In Nigeria, where 43 cases have been detected since 2018, type 2 virus has spread from the north to the densely populated port city of Lagos; it has also entered neighboring Niger. The Democratic Republic of the Congo has seen 26 cases. And the situation is deteriorating, a key WHO committee concluded on 29 May.

So Polio vaccine only can increase the number of cases! You can also read the below link:
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2012/02/18/the-polio-vaccine-myth-the-vaccine-stopped-polio/

In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk, who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 “Abstracts” )

The Polio vaccine only increased the amount of cases of Polio when it was introduced and it had no part in actually creating a decline in the disease. The decline was happening naturally and the vaccine was introduced on a down turn of Polio cases. While the introduction of the vaccine created a spike in cases, overall the disease continued to decline.

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JJA

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #650 on: March 03, 2021, 02:28:44 PM »
A meta-analysis of studies:

You mean quote-mining, misrepresenting, not understanding what you read and outright lying?

Keep it up.

Or just stop it and wear your mask like established science says you should.

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Stash

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #651 on: March 03, 2021, 02:37:22 PM »
A meta-analysis of studies:

Masks Are Neither Effective Nor Safe: A Summary Of The Science - https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

" In this meta-analysis, face masks were found to have no detectable effect against transmission of viral infections. (1)  It found: “Compared to no masks, there was no reduction of influenza-like illness cases or influenza for masks in the general population, nor in healthcare workers.”

I don't get it. The first paper here (above) concludes:

"CONCLUSIONS Most included trials had poor design, reporting and sparse events. There was insufficient evidence to provide a recommendation on the use of facial barriers without other measures. We found insufficient evidence for a difference between surgical masks and N95 respirators and limited evidence to support effectiveness of quarantine. Based on observational evidence from the previous SARS epidemic included in the previous version of our Cochrane review we recommend the use of masks combined with other measures."

This 2020 meta-analysis found that evidence from randomized controlled trials of face masks did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility. (2)

"It is essential to note that the mechanisms of person-to-person transmission in the community have not been fully determined. Controversy remains over the role of transmission through fine-particle aerosols (3,46)"

Old, from May last year. Before we knew it went aerosol. My studies are from a few weeks ago.

Another recent review found that masks had no effect specifically against Covid-19, although facemask use seemed linked to, in 3 of 31 studies, “very slightly reduced” odds of developing influenza-like illness. (3)

I'll take any reduction I can get. It also says, "However, using a mask for short periods of time by particularly vulnerable individuals
during transient exposure events may be justified."


Nowhere does it say masks are useless.

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Stash

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #652 on: March 03, 2021, 03:24:40 PM »
Third generation vaccines will not solve the problem:
That's right!

Vaccines never solved a problem whether first-generation or twentieth generation. they were always a problem in themselves!

Yeah, vaccines never solved a problem:



How high were you when you wrote that?

This has nothing to do with vaccines! The human population always naturally achieves herd immunity. Without even getting a vaccine!

Vaccines have never reduced mortality! On the contrary, they caused more outbreaks and more deaths!

According to Mark Pallansch, a CDC virologist, the oral polio vaccine has created more disease outbreaks than they've stopped. The oral polio vaccine is now responsible for many outbreaks across multiple countries.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/07/surging-cases-have-dashed-all-hope-polio-might-be-eradicated-2019

Did you read the article? Apparently not. So why does he say in the article: "Exacerbating the situation is a vitriolic disinformation campaign on social media, says virologist Mark Pallansch of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, one of the partner agencies in the initiative. Deadly attacks on polio vaccinators and their police escorts are on the rise. Still, if Pakistan's government makes eradication a national priority and puts money behind it, Sutter says, "There is a fighting chance" of success."

What's the vitriolic disinformation on social media he is referring to? Try and use your brain to figure it out.

Umm, he's pro-vax. Why would he be pro-vax if vaccines didn't work? Ask yourself that, maybe out loud.

Vaccines are complicated. There are a few different kinds for Polio. One of which uses a live variant which can, sometimes, mutate. That's why there are boosters and different approaches for different scenarios.

The switch worked, except in Africa, where type 2 vaccine-derived outbreaks have been more frequent and much harder to stop than the models projected; they are now smoldering in seven countries. By using mOPV2, "We have now created more new emergences of the virus than we have stopped," Pallansch says. In Nigeria, where 43 cases have been detected since 2018, type 2 virus has spread from the north to the densely populated port city of Lagos; it has also entered neighboring Niger. The Democratic Republic of the Congo has seen 26 cases. And the situation is deteriorating, a key WHO committee concluded on 29 May.

And yes, it did create more than it stopped in the Congo. And it's explained why in the article (which you didn't read). As well in the article it says, "To prevent outbreaks of vaccine-derived virus, WHO has declared that once the wild virus is gone, countries must stop all use of OPV. As a first step, in April 2016 all countries switched from the trivalent version of OPV—which covers all three types of polio virus—to a bivalent one, which lacks the type 2 component. (Wild type 2 virus is the only one that has been eradicated.)"

The "switch" worked, except in Africa. And the article explains why.


So Polio vaccine only can increase the number of cases! You can also read the below link:
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2012/02/18/the-polio-vaccine-myth-the-vaccine-stopped-polio/

In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk, who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 “Abstracts” )

You need to stop falling for anti-vax Facebook memes.

Salk never "testified" to anything of the sort. Here's the actual Science 4/4/77 “Abstracts” you reference and the crap article references, it's from a paper by Salk regarding which type of polio vaccine is preferred for use given the two types of the vaccine:

Science
1977 Mar 4;195(4281):834-47. doi: 10.1126/science.320661.
Control of influenza and poliomyelitis with killed virus vaccines
J Salk, D Salk
PMID: 320661 DOI: 10.1126/science.320661
Abstract
The requirements for inducing immunity against an infectious disease are outlined, and the application of these requirements to the development of effective vaccines (vaccinology) is discussed. Influenza and poliomyelitis are examined from this viewpoint, and data are presented that demonstrate the effectiveness of killed virus vaccines against these diseases. A comparison between live and killed poliovirus vaccines suggests the desirability of returning to the use of a killed virus vaccine for the eradication of polio. The natural history of influenza and experience with vaccination suggest that influenza might be brought under effective control by routine immunization in childhood with a polyvalent killed virus vaccine potentiated by an immunologic adjuvant.


That Collective Evolution article literally bought into a anti-vax facebook meme without even looking at the source.

So yeah, the 1977 Salk testifying thing is bullshit. You should really research more before puking out erroneous memes and such.

The Polio vaccine only increased the amount of cases of Polio when it was introduced and it had no part in actually creating a decline in the disease. The decline was happening naturally and the vaccine was introduced on a down turn of Polio cases. While the introduction of the vaccine created a spike in cases, overall the disease continued to decline.

That is the most ill-informed statement you could possibly make. Polio started to abate right when vaccines were introduced and in the US, is basically 0. Look at the facts, not sensational click-bait articles and anti-vax memes. Evidence, facts, use them.


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #653 on: March 03, 2021, 04:39:52 PM »
You are trying to appeal to authority to disprove experimentation. Their words will not disprove research and studies.

Actually, the studies said that the masks were ineffective.

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/assets/info/ppih/if-ppih-covid-19-sag-mask-use-in-community-rapid-review.pdf

"Systematic reviews of randomized controlled trials in health care settings have not demonstrated a significant reduction in acute respiratory infections, (ARIs), ILIs or laboratory confirmed viral infections with medical mask use"

"At this point, there is no direct evidence that the use of a medical or homemade cloth mask or the wider use of masks in the community significantly reduces this risk"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343047404_PEER_simplified_tool_mask_use_by_the_general_public_and_by_health_care_workers

"In all three scenerios, wearing a mask did NOT reduce the risk of getting flu-like illness or confirmed influenza"
You should really read the whole paper. That one sentence isn't an end all. And like I said, science isn't static.

Here is just one example.
"Multiple other studies have examined the use of masks for preventing spread of other respiratory pathogens. Milton et al, 2013 found that medical masks reduced influenza viral copy numbers in exhaled samples by ~3-25 fold (depending on the size of the particle). "


Feel free to look at more sources.
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

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The medical research was on my side in those threads by doctors and researchers, just like it is in this one.
No. Research never claimed vitamin C cured covid and that items at grocery stores cure cancer. You are the farthest from a doctor out of anyone on this website. Take your own advice and never give medical advice. Sadly Steve Jobs is still dead because he didn't seek proper medical advice.

Quote
Stop being foolish. Show actual evidence and studies in favor of universal mask use rather than uncredentialled rubbish.
I posted many. You hid from them.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #654 on: March 03, 2021, 09:18:02 PM »
Actually, the studies said that the cloth masks were ineffective.

No, you just cant comprehend anything, even something simple like wearing a mask to reduce the spread of a disease.  But that's nothing new for you.

Amazing idiocy on display here.

The only idiocy I see is from some internet rando claiming that multiple doctors and researchers are wrong and that they are right.

Can we see your credentials for this medical advice?

Yes. This is what I see also, but you're the 'rando'

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #655 on: March 03, 2021, 11:04:37 PM »
The hope:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

The reality:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=85436.msg2307201#msg2307201

Two new developments.

A new powerful strain has been detected in Queensland, Australia: the B.1.1.317 variant.

"According to Russian medical experts, the B.1.1.317 variant contains the concerning mutation: N 501Y which is also found in the South African Strain B.1.351 and is known to evade neutralizing antibodies. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01285-x

Dr Peter Collignon, a professor of Infectious Diseases at the ANU Medical School-Australia, said it was still too early to make any assumptions about this new strain of the virus appearing.

Virologist Professor Dr Kirsten Spann from Queensland University of Technology said it was difficult to understand the "significance" of this variant.
 
Dr Spann said, "I've been sort of going through the literature and it seems there's not a lot reported at least about what the exact mutations are.”

Dr Spann said at this stage it would depend on where the mutation was and if it changed the spike protein of the virus.
 
She said, "So fundamentally that the antibodies produced by the vaccine no longer bind to that spike protein that would have to be a very large mutation to actually fundamentally change that antibody virus binding reaction that we need for effective vaccine. Whether this mutation does that or not, I don't imagine anyone knows that yet, but I'm sure people are testing it.”"

The Russian deputy prime minister has announced that 60% herd immunity will be achieved by August.

"If vaccination remains at the same pace as now, if the number of vaccination points is the same as now, then we, as a country, will achieve herd immunity by August 2021. This date could change and could be advanced and, most likely, it will be so. It depends solely on the vaccination pace".

It has long been my suspicion that the Sputnik 5 vaccine has bacteriophages (the Gamaleya Institute specializes in the study of bacteriophages after all); that is why it was administered to the Russian armed forces. If it does not have bacteriophages, then Russians will have the same problems in the future as everyone else.

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JJA

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #656 on: March 04, 2021, 04:20:07 AM »
Two new developments.

Development one: Sandokhan read something on the internet.

Development two: Sandokhan posted a delusional rant about them that has nothing to do with reality.

And nobody was surprised.

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WISHTOLAUGH

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #657 on: March 04, 2021, 04:38:57 AM »
What are the dates on all of those? A year ago? When authorities were pleading with the general public not to buy surgical/N95 masks because they were in short supply and PPP was desperately needed in medical facilities.
Funny, not one of those pleas made by authorities include the words "short supply." They all include the words, "useless."
Please try and post something relevant.
Take your own advice.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #658 on: March 04, 2021, 04:40:38 AM »
Are you ready to take two more shots in six months' time? This in addition to the third booster vaccine (in case you didn't know, the P.1 strain is immune to the vaccines currently in use).

Press conference of the Israeli prime minister:

"The vaccines we have, no one knows how long they last…We need to prepare for the worst scenario. The worst scenario is that we have to vaccinate (twice) every half year.”

Are you aware that the vaccines you did receive cannot protect you against the new highly resistant strains?

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WISHTOLAUGH

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #659 on: March 04, 2021, 04:42:14 AM »

The masks people are using won't stop viruses any more than a chain link fence will stop insects.

They actually make them - they are called mosquito nets.

Got any more year old laimstream media articles to share?
Jimmy thinks that mosquito nets are made of chain link fence.