Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2020, 07:40:38 AM »
Australia’s lead investigator Dr. Nigel Curtis said: “If I didn’t think [the TB vaccine] would work, I wouldn’t have been here seven days a week for the last month with a team of 20 people."

BCG works only for mycobacterium. Not for a virus.

You missed the scientific explanation which accounts for the effectiveness of the BCG:

"In nature there is a phenomena which happens probably millions of times a day in which one colony of bacteria or mycobacteria sends out its viral phages (bacteriophages or mycobacteriophages) that live inside it to kill another colony of the same type of organism......a sort of natural lysogeny. The bacterialviruses called phages are the most plentiful viruses on earth. But they are species specific in that they only attack like species. The Mycobacterium bovis in BCG are closely related to and in fact part of the Mycobacterium tuberculosis complex. Therefore, the phages inside BCG have the potential to destroy TB and other related mycobacteria.

The destruction of TB bacilli in the body is in and of itself “bolstering the immune system”, as there is no other microbe known to man that is quite as immunosuppressive.

And that is exactly how BCG works  ̶  not against "a virus" and not through “training” or “bolstering” the immune system, but by BCG (Mycobacterium bovis) shooting off phages to kill closely related mycobacteria or mycobacterial colonization, latent or active, in the system. Since phages are species specific, they are often used for diagnostic purposes. So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease."

Peer reviewed and published in the Pulmonary Research and Respiratory Care journal





Nothing indicates the drugs went after the virus.

Prove to your readers that SARS-Cov-2 is the PRIMARY source of infection. You cannot, therefore your desperate attempts to deflect attention fail miserably.

Mycobacterium have RNA, a fact of science.

Mycobacterium also pass through microfilters, a fact of science.

And that is exactly how BCG works  ̶  not against "a virus" and not through “training” or “bolstering” the immune system, but by BCG (Mycobacterium bovis) shooting off phages to kill closely related mycobacteria or mycobacterial colonization, latent or active, in the system. Since phages are species specific, they are often used for diagnostic purposes. So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease."



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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2020, 08:06:08 AM »
So no quote then?
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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2020, 09:09:48 AM »
Here is what Dr. Curtis actually said:

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“It can boost the immune system so that it defends better against a whole range of different infections, a whole range of different viruses and bacteria in a lot more generalized way,” said Curtis, who’s also a professor of pediatric infectious diseases at the University of Melbourne and head of the infectious diseases unit at the city’s Royal Children’s Hospital.
From https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-30/century-old-vaccine-investigated-as-a-weapon-against-coronavirus

(See the actual source is listed)

A normal human wouldn't misrepresent what is being said and what actions are being performed.
His work is quite interesting when you actually look at the non misrepresented information.
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2020, 09:13:55 AM »
And that is exactly how BCG works  ̶  not against "a virus" and not through “training” or “bolstering” the immune system, but by BCG (Mycobacterium bovis) shooting off phages to kill closely related mycobacteria or mycobacterial colonization, latent or active, in the system. Since phages are species specific, they are often used for diagnostic purposes. So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease."

Quote:

So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease.


Can you explain to your readers how the BCG vaccine would bolster/improve the immune system so as to eradicate SARS-Cov-2? If you cannot, please write to Dr. Curtis and ask him to do it. What is the specific mechanism by which mycobacterium bovis attacks a virus, through the immune system?

Don't worry, you won't find a single paper which can explain this.


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2020, 09:20:06 AM »
And that is exactly how BCG works  ̶  not against "a virus" and not through “training” or “bolstering” the immune system, but by BCG (Mycobacterium bovis) shooting off phages to kill closely related mycobacteria or mycobacterial colonization, latent or active, in the system. Since phages are species specific, they are often used for diagnostic purposes. So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease."

Quote:

So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease.
No source listed.


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Can you explain to your readers how the BCG vaccine would bolster/improve the immune system so as to eradicate SARS-Cov-2? If you cannot, please write to Dr. Curtis and ask him to do it. What is the specific mechanism by which mycobacterium bovis attacks a virus, through the immune system?

Don't worry, you won't find a single paper which can explain this.
From the article "The bacillus Calmette-Guerin, or BCG, shot has been used widely for about 100 years, with a growing appreciation for its off-target benefits. Not only is it a common immunotherapy for early-stage bladder cancer, it also seems to train the body’s first line of immune defense to better fight infections"

I indeed don't know. I didn't take much biology. But then again, we all know you didn't either.

If you agree it's not going to be in one paper, why then do you often latch on to one paper and ignore everything else? 
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2020, 09:54:10 AM »
I have already provided the source: peer-reviewed, Pulmonary Research and Respiratory Care journal.

https://www.academia.edu/42379130/IN_PRESS_PROMISING_ANTIMICROBIAL_HOPE_FOR_CORONAVIRUS_BUT_IS_IT_WORKING_AGAINST_A_VIRUS_......................................................................Dr._Lawrence_Broxmeyer_MD

Very simple mechanism, but it works ONLY for mycobacterium.

it also seems to train the body’s first line of immune defense to better fight infections

Sure.

Can you explain how the "immune defense" will fight an infection using BCG, other than the mycobacteriophages mechanism?

Specifically, how would SARS-Cov-2 be eradicated using BCG (of all possible things)?

In the case of mycobacterium, things are very simple, the photographs provided earlier even capture the very moment the mycobacteriophages attack mycobacterial colonization.

How would a virus be influenced, via the immune system, by BCG?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 09:56:17 AM by sandokhan »

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2020, 10:07:23 AM »
Here is a second reference, this time published in the most prestigious journal in the world on infectious diseases:

Broxmeyer, L., Sosnowska, D., Miltner, E., Chacon, O., Wagner, D., McGarvey, J., Barletta, R.G. and Bermuddez, L.E. (2002) Killing of Mycobacterium avium and Mycobacterium tuberculosis by a mycobacteriophage delivered by a nonvirulent mycobacterium: a model for phage therapy of intracellular bacterial pathogens. J Infect Dis 186,
1155–1160

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/186/8/1155/2191390

The Journal of Infectious Diseases
Oxford Academic

Do you recognize the first name in the authors' section?

Yes, it is Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer himself.


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2020, 10:25:59 AM »
I have already provided the source: peer-reviewed, Pulmonary Research and Respiratory Care journal.
https://www.academia.edu/42379130/IN_PRESS_PROMISING_ANTIMICROBIAL_HOPE_FOR_CORONAVIRUS_BUT_IS_IT_WORKING_AGAINST_A_VIRUS_......................................................................Dr._Lawrence_Broxmeyer_MD
I doubt it was peer reviewed in that short of time. Also seems like it was written by a clown.


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Very simple mechanism, but it works ONLY for mycobacterium.
Your own sources say otherwise.
Also thanks for reminding us why research exists.

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Sure.

Can you explain how the "immune defense" will fight an infection using BCG, other than the mycobacteriophages mechanism?
I never claimed I could.
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Specifically, how would SARS-Cov-2 be eradicated using BCG (of all possible things)?
Nobody is saying that is specificly what is happeneing. You don't have to eradicate the virus to help a person with it.

Quote
In the case of mycobacterium, things are very simple, the photographs provided earlier even capture the very moment the mycobacteriophages attack mycobacterial colonization.

How would a virus be influenced, via the immune system, by BCG?
Once again it is explained by one of the doctors you quoted. Try reading.

Here is a second reference, this time published in the most prestigious journal in the world on infectious diseases:

Broxmeyer, L., Sosnowska, D., Miltner, E., Chacon, O., Wagner, D., McGarvey, J., Barletta, R.G. and Bermuddez, L.E. (2002) Killing of Mycobacterium avium and Mycobacterium tuberculosis by a mycobacteriophage delivered by a nonvirulent mycobacterium: a model for phage therapy of intracellular bacterial pathogens. J Infect Dis 186,
1155–1160

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/186/8/1155/2191390

The Journal of Infectious Diseases
Oxford Academic

Do you recognize the first name in the authors' section?

Yes, it is Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer himself.



What about it?


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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2020, 10:41:18 AM »
Actual quotes from sokarul:

"You have to get over the fact that two things can be equal and not be the same thing.

A dead particle does not equal an alive particle.

It it theories water came from asteroids.

So the ground accelerates them, then why do they not leave the ground?

I wasn't thinking about the other type of acceleration."


Broxmeyer, L., Sosnowska, D., Miltner, E., Chacon, O., Wagner, D., McGarvey, J., Barletta, R.G. and Bermuddez, L.E. (2002) Killing of Mycobacterium avium and Mycobacterium tuberculosis by a mycobacteriophage delivered by a nonvirulent mycobacterium: a model for phage therapy of intracellular bacterial pathogens. J Infect Dis 186,
1155–1160

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/186/8/1155/2191390

The Journal of Infectious Diseases
Oxford Academic


The first quoted user, sokarul, calls Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer, who was peer reviewed and was able to publish his research in the most prestigious infectious diseases journal in the world, a clown. How does this work?


Once again it is explained by one of the doctors you quoted.

But it isn't, for if it was, you'd have been able to quote the specific passages where we learn how BCG improves the immune system so as to stop SARS-Cov-2.


In the case of mycobacterium, there is a very simple and direct explanation.

For SARS-Cov-2, there is none.


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2020, 11:03:40 AM »
Actual quotes from sokarul:

"You have to get over the fact that two things can be equal and not be the same thing.

A dead particle does not equal an alive particle.

It it theories water came from asteroids.

So the ground accelerates them, then why do they not leave the ground?

I wasn't thinking about the other type of acceleration."
Sweet, using a logical fallacy. With shitty examples at that.

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"You have to get over the fact that two things can be equal and not be the same thing.
1+4=3+2 1/=3 and 4 /= 2

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A dead particle does not equal an alive particle.
This by definition would ave to be true.

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It it theories water came from asteroids.
This is a well know theory that water on earth came from asteroids and comets.

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So the ground accelerates them, then why do they not leave the ground?
I think this was about the UA so does it even matter?

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I wasn't thinking about the other type of acceleration."
This was me forgetting you can accelerate with a change of direction only.
These quotes are like 8 years old now. Anything new?

Should I do the same?
"Colors don't exit."
(I made it red for the lawls)
The list would be so long if I kept going.

All off topic.

It's a shame you had to stoop so low.

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Broxmeyer, L., Sosnowska, D., Miltner, E., Chacon, O., Wagner, D., McGarvey, J., Barletta, R.G. and Bermuddez, L.E. (2002) Killing of Mycobacterium avium and Mycobacterium tuberculosis by a mycobacteriophage delivered by a nonvirulent mycobacterium: a model for phage therapy of intracellular bacterial pathogens. J Infect Dis 186,
1155–1160

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/186/8/1155/2191390

The Journal of Infectious Diseases
Oxford Academic


The first quoted user, sokarul, calls Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer, who was peer reviewed and was able to publish his research in the most prestigious infectious diseases journal in the world, a clown. How does this work?
Did you even read it?

"Questions persist as to whether these deaths were as a direct result of the virus itself. " No that is not a question at all. Even news reporters know the answer.
It's just stuff like this makes you say "what?"

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Once again it is explained by one of the doctors you quoted.

But it isn't, for if it was, you'd have been able to quote the specific passages where we learn how BCG improves the immune system so as to stop SARS-Cov-2.


In the case of mycobacterium, there is a very simple and direct explanation.

For SARS-Cov-2, there is none.
Ask your source Dr. Nigel Curtis.
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2020, 11:18:16 AM »
Even news reporters know the answer.

Sure. Then, ask the reporter how does he/she know this fact. The answer, invariably, will be to direct you to the top epidemiologist in their respective country. Now, ask that epidemiologist how he/she had arrived at this wondrous conclusion. They will say "RNA testing", "passing through microfilters". Now, remind them that mycobacterium also have these features.

Ask your source Dr. Nigel Curtis.

I have already done my homework on this subject. Rest assuredly that there is no specific answer coming from Dr. Curtis, he cannot offer any other than a vague response such as "improve the immune system".


"In nature there is a phenomena which happens probably millions of times a day in which one colony of bacteria or mycobacteria sends out its viral phages (bacteriophages or mycobacteriophages) that live inside it to kill another colony of the same type of organism......a sort of natural lysogeny. The bacterialviruses called phages are the most plentiful viruses on earth. But they are species specific in that they only attack like species. The Mycobacterium bovis in BCG are closely related to and in fact part of the Mycobacterium tuberculosis complex. Therefore, the phages inside BCG have the potential to destroy TB and other related mycobacteria.

The destruction of TB bacilli in the body is in and of itself “bolstering the immune system”, as there is no other microbe known to man that is quite as immunosuppressive.

And that is exactly how BCG works  ̶  not against "a virus" and not through “training” or “bolstering” the immune system, but by BCG (Mycobacterium bovis) shooting off phages to kill closely related mycobacteria or mycobacterial colonization, latent or active, in the system. Since phages are species specific, they are often used for diagnostic purposes. So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease."





This is what BCG does for mycobacterium.

Go ahead, and find the similar mechanism for a virus, specifically SARS-Cov-2.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 11:21:59 AM by sandokhan »

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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2020, 11:23:40 AM »
Even news reporters know the answer.

Sure. Then, ask the reporter how does he/she know this fact. The answer, invariably, will be to direct you to the top epidemiologist in their respective country. Now, ask that epidemiologist how he/she had arrived at this wondrous conclusion. They will say "RNA testing", "passing through microfilters". Now, remind them that mycobacterium also have these features.
The answer is it's best to say a person died of complications since the cause of death can be from a wide verity of things.


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I have already done my homework on this subject. Rest assuredly that there is no specific answer coming from Dr. Curtis, he cannot offer any other than a vague response such as "improve the immune system".
No you haven't. You found two articles. One said noting close to which you claimed.

 A free source of research papers.

https://pubs.acs.org/page/vi/chemistry_coronavirus_research




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"In nature there is a phenomena which happens probably millions of times a day in which one colony of bacteria or mycobacteria sends out its viral phages (bacteriophages or mycobacteriophages) that live inside it to kill another colony of the same type of organism......a sort of natural lysogeny. The bacterialviruses called phages are the most plentiful viruses on earth. But they are species specific in that they only attack like species. The Mycobacterium bovis in BCG are closely related to and in fact part of the Mycobacterium tuberculosis complex. Therefore, the phages inside BCG have the potential to destroy TB and other related mycobacteria.

The destruction of TB bacilli in the body is in and of itself “bolstering the immune system”, as there is no other microbe known to man that is quite as immunosuppressive.

And that is exactly how BCG works  ̶  not against "a virus" and not through “training” or “bolstering” the immune system, but by BCG (Mycobacterium bovis) shooting off phages to kill closely related mycobacteria or mycobacterial colonization, latent or active, in the system. Since phages are species specific, they are often used for diagnostic purposes. So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease.[.b]"





This is what BCG does for mycobacterium.

Go ahead, and find the similar mechanism for a virus, specifically SARS-Cov-2.

The same copy paste since you are unable to think for yourself.
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2020, 11:53:05 AM »
You found two articles.

No. The statement that I did my homework refers to the fact that I have thoroughly researched your best case scenario (BCG to SARS-Cov-2 connection).

The same copy paste

No. It is the most direct mechanism, via mycobacteriophages, of transmission from BCG to mycobacterium. The mechanism has been captured on film.

Go ahead and find a similar mechanism for SARS-Cov-2. You won't find any. Not even a conjecture.


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2020, 12:03:29 PM »
You found two articles.

No. The statement that I did my homework refers to the fact that I have thoroughly researched your best case scenario (BCG to SARS-Cov-2 connection).
Had me fooled. When you came across research that said covid-19 was from the virus SAR-cov-2 what did you do?
What about when you saw the RNA of the virus sequenced?
Did you dismiss it because of preconceived notions?

Quote

No. It is the most direct mechanism, via mycobacteriophages, of transmission from BCG to mycobacterium. The mechanism has been captured on film.

Go ahead and find a similar mechanism for SARS-Cov-2. You won't find any. Not even a conjecture.
Who says I have to? Less bacteria to attack when the immune system is weakened due to a virus would be a good thing. Dr. Curtis himself, you know the guy you brought into the thread, says BCG doesn't have to attack the virus to help.
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2020, 12:12:53 PM »
Dr. Curtis himself, you know the guy you brought into the thread, says BCG doesn't have to attack the virus to help.

That would be very bad news for your side.

If BCG treats only the symptoms, then you have this to deal with.

Mycobacteria tuberculosis (TB) acts like a virus. It is a seasonal infection peaking in winter just like cold and flu viruses. While the TB mycobacterium is spread throughout the year, it is only when vitamin D levels are low and the immune system weak that it produces symptoms. It is a cell-wall deficient germ that appears like a virus under a microscope. It attacks the lungs, resulting in inflammation that essentially drowns infected patients who cannot breathe, just like COVID-19 coronavirus is said to do.

How, then, does Dr. Curtis know that it is the SARS-Cov-2 which caused the infectious outbreak? If it doesn't have to attack the virus, how then does he know what is the primary cause? Mycobacterium also has RNA, and passes through microfilters.

If it is only the symptoms that are going to be treated, then the connection between these symptoms and mycobacterium are much more direct and logical, than between the common cold (coronavirus) and the clinical manifestations of this illness.

Moreover, he still lacks the mechanism by which the treatment of these symptoms by BCG will cure the virus itself.

For mycobacterium the mechanism is very simple, direct and has been proven to exist.

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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2020, 01:44:00 PM »


That would be very bad news for your side.

If BCG treats only the symptoms, then you have this to deal with.

Mycobacteria tuberculosis (TB) acts like a virus. It is a seasonal infection peaking in winter just like cold and flu viruses. While the TB mycobacterium is spread throughout the year, it is only when vitamin D levels are low and the immune system weak that it produces symptoms. It is a cell-wall deficient germ that appears like a virus under a microscope. It attacks the lungs, resulting in inflammation that essentially drowns infected patients who cannot breathe, just like COVID-19 coronavirus is said to do.
I didn't say anything about symptoms.

Quote
How, then, does Dr. Curtis know that it is the SARS-Cov-2 which caused the infectious outbreak? If it doesn't have to attack the virus, how then does he know what is the primary cause? Mycobacterium also has RNA, and passes through microfilters.
And? They know through standard medical research.

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If it is only the symptoms that are going to be treated, then the connection between these symptoms and mycobacterium are much more direct and logical, than between the common cold (coronavirus) and the clinical manifestations of this illness.
Another fallacy.

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Moreover, he still lacks the mechanism by which the treatment of these symptoms by BCG will cure the virus itself.

For mycobacterium the mechanism is very simple, direct and has been proven to exist.
Who said he was trying to cure the virus? The goal is to help people live.
Maybe ask him these questions though.
Speaking of which, why did you not answer any or my questions?

When you came across research that said covid-19 was from the virus SAR-cov-2 what did you do?
What about when you saw the RNA of the virus sequenced?
Did you dismiss it because of preconceived notions?
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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2020, 05:20:58 AM »
Even news reporters know the answer.
Sure. Then, ask the reporter how does he/she know this fact. The answer, invariably, will be to direct you to the top epidemiologist in their respective country. Now, ask that epidemiologist how he/she had arrived at this wondrous conclusion. They will say "RNA testing", "passing through microfilters". Now, remind them that mycobacterium also have these features.
No, do not ask reporters!
Ask testing labs how they determine if an infection is bacterial or viral! These labs use genetic testing!
Quote from:  Stanford University School of Medicine, July 6 2016
Cheap blood test can discriminate between bacterial, viral infections
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The overuse of antibiotics threatens to create a global scourge of antibiotic-resistant bacterial pathogens. Because of this problem, public health experts regularly remind physicians to prescribe antibiotics only for bacterial infections.
But too often there’s no easy way for doctors to tell whether a patient’s illness is bacterial or viral or, sometimes, if there’s any infection at all.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Blood test
The team used publicly available patient gene expression data to pinpoint just seven human genes whose activity changes during an infection; their pattern of activity can distinguish whether an infection is bacterial or viral.

When pathogens infect the cells of the body, the infection sets off a chain reaction involving the immune system that changes the activity, or expression, of hundreds of genes. Gene expression is the process by which cells extract information from genes and render it in the form of either proteins or RNA. Cells have the capacity to express more or less of each molecule, creating a pattern of gene expression that changes in response to external influences, including infections.

The seven-gene test is a vast improvement over earlier tests that look at the activity of hundreds of genes, the researchers said. Because so few genes are involved, the new test will be cheaper and faster, while remaining accurate, they said.

Your precious "mycobacterium" will NOT have the same genetic markers as a virus!

Quote from: sandokhan
Ask your source Dr. Nigel Curtis.
I have already done my homework on this subject.
Apparently not adequately because you only seem to read and swallow what your Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer writes and he seems to have little understanding of how the body's inherent and adaptive immune systems work.

Quote from: sandokhan
Rest assuredly that there is no specific answer coming from Dr. Curtis, he cannot offer any other than a vague response such as "improve the immune system".
Are you sure?
Have YOU asked Dr. Curtis and determined that "he cannot offer any other than a vague response such as 'improve the immune system' "?
If you haven't I'd advise you not to speculate as to what someone that knows far more than you on this topic has to offer!

Quote from: sandokhan
"In nature there is a phenomena which happens probably millions of times a day in which one colony of bacteria or mycobacteria sends out its viral phages[1] (bacteriophages or mycobacteriophages) that live inside it to kill another colony of the same type of organism......a sort of natural lysogeny. The bacterialviruses called phages are the most plentiful viruses on earth. But they are species specific in that they only attack like species. The Mycobacterium bovis in BCG are closely related to and in fact part of the Mycobacterium tuberculosis complex. Therefore, the phages inside BCG have the potential to destroy TB and other related mycobacteria.

The destruction of TB bacilli in the body is in and of itself “bolstering the immune system”, as there is no other microbe known to man that is quite as immunosuppressive." by Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer, MD
And that is a total misrepresentation of the way the body's adaptive immune system operates.
This "one colony of bacteria or mycobacteria sending out its viral phages. . . .  that live inside it to kill another colony of the same type of organism." is not the way the immune system works.

The BCG does not remain in the body for decades but rather it trains the adaptive immune system to recognise a class of pathogens.

Though Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer is more or less correct with "as there is no other microbe known to man that is quite as immunosuppressive" though the measles vaccine has also been found to apparently lower the death rate due all causes!

There are no "phages inside BCG" that "have the potential to destroy TB and other related mycobacteria".
Rather the BCG or other vaccine "teaches" the adaptive immune system to recognise the TB and any other pathogens with the same genetic markers as foreign (not-self) and to attack the bacteria or viral infected cell.

Here learn a bit about the body's immune system and the different immune responses to bacteria and viruses.
From Virology Blog
Virology Blog: Innate immune defenses
Virology Blog: Adaptive immune defenses

From British Society for Immunology
British Society for Immunology: What is immunology?
British Society for Immunology: Immune responses to bacteria
British Society for Immunology: Immune responses to viruses

Quote from: sandokhan
Go ahead, and find the similar mechanism for a virus, specifically SARS-Cov-2.
Why bother, because Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer's mechanism described is not the way the immune system operates anyway?

[1] There are bacteriophages, viruses that can reproduce in bacteria and kill that type of bacteria Bacteriophages
     but that is not how the immune system destroys bacteria and visuses.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2020, 05:33:48 AM »
If you haven't I'd advise you not to speculate as to what someone that knows far more than you on this topic has to offer!

Here learn a bit

but that is not how the immune system destroys bacteria and visuses.

is not the way the immune system works.


You should, by now, understand that nobody here gives a flying f*ck on what you have to say regarding issues related to microbiology.


and virii do not have DNA.




APL biologist Tom Mehoke reviews the DNA sequencing analysis of SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19, at the molecular diagnostics laboratory at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/04/02/sequencing-genome-sars-cov-2/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7045880/

A next generation sequencing (NGS) library was constructed after amplifying the full-length genes of the isolates using the synthesized cDNA and primers designed based on published SARS-CoV-2 DNA sequence.

RNA viruses have RNA and use it to make DNA. This leads to a truly mind-boggling ability: the DNA these viruses make can become permanently incorporated into the DNA of the host cells, a process called transduction. That means when infected cells reproduce, they automatically carry the viral DNA, and automatically produce new viral packets.


All viruses carry DNA.

A fact of science.


COVID-2 is caused by the Mycobacterium tuberculosis


You do qualify to walk Dr. Broxmeyer's dog.

That's about it.

and virii do not have DNA.


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2020, 05:47:18 AM »
You haven’t done your homework.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5221455/

Not all viruses carry DNA as their genetic material. Viruses don’t even have a nucleus.
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2020, 06:00:41 AM »
Not all viruses carry DNA as their genetic material.

The article you quoted does not address the deeper issues in virology, such as transduction, nowhere does it state that RNA viruses do not carry DNA; indeed the authors could not have issued such a statement and at the same time not be met with derision from the peer reviewers.

RNA viruses have RNA and use it to make DNA. This leads to a truly mind-boggling ability: the DNA these viruses make can become permanently incorporated into the DNA of the host cells, a process called transduction. That means when infected cells reproduce, they automatically carry the viral DNA, and automatically produce new viral packets.


All viruses carry DNA.

A fact of science.


In particular, SARS-Cov-2 does carry DNA.

https://api.hub.jhu.edu/factory/sites/default/files/styles/soft_crop_1030/public/20-01549_DSC04325.jpg?itok=HDiQtauP

APL biologist Tom Mehoke reviews the DNA sequencing analysis of SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19, at the molecular diagnostics laboratory at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/04/02/sequencing-genome-sars-cov-2/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7045880/

A next generation sequencing (NGS) library was constructed after amplifying the full-length genes of the isolates using the synthesized cDNA and primers designed based on published SARS-CoV-2 DNA sequence.


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2020, 06:12:10 AM »
You Need to comprehend what you are reading.

“ Coronavirus is an RNA virus consisting of positive-sense single-stranded RNA of approximately 27–32 kb.”

“ RNA was extracted from clinical samples with a QIAamp viral RNA mini kit (QIAGEN, Hilden, Germany) following the manufacturer’s instructions.”



“ Using reverse transcriptase, cDNA was synthesized from RNA extracted from the cultured cell medium in which the virus was replicated.”


They are using the virus RNA to reverse transcode sDNA. The DNA wasn’t present.

As all sources say. Viruses carry RNA or DNA as their genetic cargo.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2020, 06:20:30 AM »
You still don't get it.

All RNA viruses manufacture DNA using transduction.

A fact of science.

Nowhere does it say that DNA wasn't present.

RNA viruses have RNA and use it to make DNA. This leads to a truly mind-boggling ability: the DNA these viruses make can become permanently incorporated into the DNA of the host cells, a process called transduction. That means when infected cells reproduce, they automatically carry the viral DNA, and automatically produce new viral packets.


All viruses carry DNA.

A fact of science.


Please read:

That means when infected cells reproduce, they automatically carry the viral DNA, and automatically produce new viral packets.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7045880/

A next generation sequencing (NGS) library was constructed after amplifying the full-length genes of the isolates using the synthesized cDNA and primers designed based on published SARS-CoV-2 DNA sequence.


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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2020, 06:38:20 AM »
Further information:

RNA Viruses

RNA viruses, also known as retroviruses, have RNA as their genetic material. Some examples of retroviruses are hepatitis viruses and HIV. When these viruses enter a host cell, they must first convert their RNA into DNA. This process, called reverse transcription, enables the virus to inject its genetic material into the host cell and use the host's biochemical machinery, similar to a DNA virus.

Often, retroviruses use an enzyme, called integrase, to insert the retroviral DNA into the genome of the host cell (the ability of retroviruses to integrate this DNA into the host cell’s DNA).



More information:

https://www.verywellhealth.com/hiv-is-a-retrovirus-what-does-that-mean-3132822

Usually, cells convert DNA into RNA so that it can be made into proteins. But with retroviruses, the process has to start by going backward. First, the viral RNA is transformed into DNA. Then the cell can copy the DNA. The cell can also transcribe the DNA back into RNA as the first step in making viral proteins.


All viruses carry DNA.

Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #83 on: April 14, 2020, 07:07:26 AM »
Should I quote the moron who claimed the COVID-2...
You never answered the question...

WTF is COVID-2?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 08:34:23 AM by totallackey »

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2020, 07:23:06 AM »
All viruses carry DNA.

The International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses (ICTV) classifies RNA viruses as those that belong to Group III, Group IV or Group V of the Baltimore classification system of classifying viruses and does not consider viruses with DNA intermediates in their life cycle as RNA viruses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_virus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_classification#RNA_viruses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #85 on: April 14, 2020, 07:54:56 AM »
All RNA viruses carry DNA.

RNA is a molecule similar to DNA, and it is essentially a temporary copy of a short segment of DNA. Specifically, in the central dogma of biology, DNA is transcribed into RNA. SARS-CoV-2 is an RNA virus, meaning our DNA sequencing technologies cannot directly decode its sequence. However, scientists can first reverse transcribe the RNA of the virus into complementary DNA (or cDNA), which can then be sequenced.

https://theconversation.com/heres-how-scientists-are-tracking-the-genetic-evolution-of-covid-19-134201

As for the classification of viruses, scientists are just now starting to discover the hybrid nature of RNA/DNA replication:

https://jvi.asm.org/content/79/13/7951

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #86 on: April 14, 2020, 08:26:15 AM »
All RNA viruses carry DNA.

You keep saying this. Its not gonna be true just because you keep repeating it.
Give me some sources, because the last one you posted absolutely does not agree with you.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #87 on: April 14, 2020, 08:48:20 AM »
I'll provide more references as soon as you come up with a single mainstream paper which shows that mycobacteriophages from the BCG interact with non-mycobacterium viruses.

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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #88 on: April 14, 2020, 08:57:12 AM »
Further information:

RNA Viruses

RNA viruses, also known as retroviruses, have RNA as their genetic material. Some examples of retroviruses are hepatitis viruses and HIV. When these viruses enter a host cell, they must first convert their RNA into DNA. This process, called reverse transcription, enables the virus to inject its genetic material into the host cell and use the host's biochemical machinery, similar to a DNA virus.

Often, retroviruses use an enzyme, called integrase, to insert the retroviral DNA into the genome of the host cell (the ability of retroviruses to integrate this DNA into the host cell’s DNA).



More information:

https://www.verywellhealth.com/hiv-is-a-retrovirus-what-does-that-mean-3132822

Usually, cells convert DNA into RNA so that it can be made into proteins. But with retroviruses, the process has to start by going backward. First, the viral RNA is transformed into DNA. Then the cell can copy the DNA. The cell can also transcribe the DNA back into RNA as the first step in making viral proteins.


All viruses carry DNA.
That process isn’t carried out in a virus.

Perhaps you could tell us where the DNA is located.
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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2020, 09:00:16 AM »
This may help.

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