Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?

Yes.

What was the rate of side effect in the trials and what were the side effects?

https://www.fda.gov/media/143557/download

page 17:

DEATH + 21 Serious Health Conditions As Possible Adverse Outcomes

Despite what FDA said, are you still going to get the Covid 19 vaccine? why?

Yes I'm still going to get it because I understand a world-spanning pandemic is far more dangerous to me than the much smaller possibility of a potential side effect. Nobody has died from the COVID vaccine.

Let me ask you a question in return.

https://medilodgeattheshore.com/announcement/choking-on-water-why-do-elderly-adults-have-difficulty-swallowing/

Despite what the article said, are you still going to drink water? why?

The Australian vaccine contained HIV fragments. People generated antibodies to these. Nothing to do with HIV being a passenger virus.

Antidote developed for Covid-19:

https://www.rt.com/russia/511116-world-first-covid19-antidote/

Russia's Federal Medical and Biological Agency (FMBA) has announced the development of a drug to fight against Covid-19, which would become the world's first direct-acting antiviral antidote if clinical trials are successful.
According to Veronika Skvortsova, the head of FMBA, studies thus far have shown it is more than 99% effective.

Antidote developed for Covid-19:

https://www.rt.com/russia/511116-world-first-covid19-antidote/

Russia's Federal Medical and Biological Agency (FMBA) has announced the development of a drug to fight against Covid-19, which would become the world's first direct-acting antiviral antidote if clinical trials are successful.
According to Veronika Skvortsova, the head of FMBA, studies thus far have shown it is more than 99% effective.

Great news. And according to your link it's a virus.

The easiest way you can tell the vaccine's legit is that the wealthy who'd supposedly be profiting off of it if it were a fake conspiracy, are actually the first in line to fall over themselves to get the shot.

Antidote developed for Covid-19:

https://www.rt.com/russia/511116-world-first-covid19-antidote/

Russia's Federal Medical and Biological Agency (FMBA) has announced the development of a drug to fight against Covid-19, which would become the world's first direct-acting antiviral antidote if clinical trials are successful.
According to Veronika Skvortsova, the head of FMBA, studies thus far have shown it is more than 99% effective.

Yet more stupid wild unsupported claims. How about you speak to the various groups around the world who have all produced vaccines based on COVID 19 being a virus. People like you who make up stupid claims are a menace especially at times like these.

The easiest way you can tell the vaccine's legit is that the wealthy who'd supposedly be profiting off of it if it were a fake conspiracy, are actually the first in line to fall over themselves to get the shot.

Are you sure about that?  How do you know that they didn't get the placebo instead?

I recently found the below article:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/bill-sardi/when-dr-fauci-said-it-wasnt-a-virus/

It supports the Sandokhan idea with some good references.

I recently found the below article:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/bill-sardi/when-dr-fauci-said-it-wasnt-a-virus/

It supports the Sandokhan idea with some good references.

What references would those be?  I see an average right-wing conspiracy laden pile of messy nonsense.

If I write a blog saying COVID is caused by grape jelly, will you quote it and claim it supports that theory too?

I recently found the below article:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/bill-sardi/when-dr-fauci-said-it-wasnt-a-virus/

It supports the Sandokhan idea with some good references.

You couldn't be more wrong. His paper is talking about what lead to peoples' deaths. He is saying people died from bacterial pneumonia rather than a flu virus. He did not say the virus doesn't exist. Non science non medical people don't understand what he said.

He said people with the virus most likely died from bacterial pneumonia. This is because the virus weakened their immune system.

Go to the real source instead of some person who is known to their state of residence as having a medial handicap. Then, learn to comprehend the actual article.

Definition of a passenger virus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_virus

SARS most definitely is mycobacterium:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.573.8374&rep=rep1&type=pdf

H1N1 was also caused by mycobacterium:

http://www.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_Flu/Tuberculosis/tuberculosis

The point is that the coronavirus has not been around long enough for in-depth study, and should it prove to be merely a “passenger” virus, secondary to an underlying bacterial or mycobacterial cause, such a microbe, perhaps similar to the Beijing strain of mycobacteria isolated in Milan prior to its COVID-19 outbreak, would then assume the mantel of the true “underlying condition” and not the virus.

Today, although tuberculosis is still a global pandemic, it is still treatable, but only if looked for and considered. What is the cause of the present Pandemic/Epidemic? Most are 98% certain that it is a virus. But until we are 100% certain, which we are not, we still need to keep a differential diagnosis open as to the possibility that we are dealing with a “passenger” virus with a deadly underlying cause. To do otherwise, would be a disservice to many.

Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer

https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download

This test cannot rule out diseases caused by other bacterial or viral pathogens.

Positive results are indicative of active infection with 2019-nCoV but do not rule out bacterial infection or co-infection with other viruses. The agent detected may not be the definite cause of disease.


The rt-pcr can only detect the passenger virus, that's all. What is needed is a second test, for mycobacterium. Yet, most PhDs cannot distinguish between cell-wall-deficient mycobacterium and a virus.

"Moreover, the preferred form of both of these pathogens, once inside the body, is their
tiny, hard to diagnose viral like cell‐wall‐deficient (CWD) mycobacterial forms, which require special stains and special culture media, unavailable at most diagnostic centers.
This leaves a situation, in which Mycobacterium avium and its cell‐wall‐deficient forms, highly implicated here in the present pandemic, are being picked up, according to Mattman, only 16% of the time through traditional methods.

Diagnosing a viral disease is no easy matter. Just to name a few instances, Lyme disease, mycoplasma pneumonia and Legionnaires' disease were all thought to be viruses. That is, until their respective bacteria were found. SARS itself, often compared with COVID-19, was misdiagnosed as avian influenzaA (or "bird flu"), the human metapneumoviruses (hMPV),and then a chlamydia-like, bacterial-like organism takenfrom patients during what later came to be known as the Guangdong outbreak."

"In addition, dormant tubercular cell-wall-deficient or“L-forms” are among the most difficult microbes to cultivate and identify, especially in their early non-cultivable or so-called “invisible” stage. Therefore to find them in the living or dead organism takes mandatory novel strategies including special growth techniques to enrich and revive them to an actively growing, colony-forming state, such as the use ofgrowth stimulants which create nutrient starvation or hypoxic conditions for M. tuberculosis in vitro. But beyond all of this, when most laboratories refuse to routinely perform these specialized L-form assays and most clinicians refuse to order them, their diagnosis becomes an impossibility.

Not only does it take special stains and cultures to detect CWD mycobacteria, but even in the case of the sensitive PCR used to detect the DNA of the organism –if DNA is extracted from stable tubercular L-forms in the breast or elsewhere, it is often negative. This is because, with the loss or disruption of tubercular cell-walls, their cell membrane may become greatly thickened. Therefore it is difficult to break the membrane in cell-wall-deficient (CWD) tuberculosis to release the DNA. Liu showed that under electron-micrographic analysis the thickness of cell membrane in CWD M.tuberculosis could be as thick as 40.54nm, whereas the thickness of the cell membrane plus cell wall in classical TB forms is only 34.84nm "




Here is the document:

https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/GPMB_annualreport_2019.pdf (page 10)

Reference to a United Nations (World Health Organization) report entitled WORLD AT RISK that claims there would not be one pandemic, but two.  The first was to be a simulated exercise of a “rapidly spreading pandemic due to a lethal respiratory pathogen.” 

Definition of a passenger virus:

Good story.

Do you like grape jelly?

Quote from: sandokhan on January 12, 2021, 11:29:27 PM

Definition of a passenger virus:

Good story.

Do you like grape jelly?

I was going to make a response but it’s just not worth it.

Quote from: JJA on January 13, 2021, 05:04:57 AM

Quote from: sandokhan on January 12, 2021, 11:29:27 PM

Definition of a passenger virus:

Good story.

Do you like grape jelly?

I was going to make a response but it’s just not worth it.

I responded so you don't have to.  I'm just cool like that.   

Here is your next field of study: HeLa cell lines (they are directly related to all of the vaccines).

Here is your next field of study: HeLa cell lines (they are directly related to all of the vaccines).

Dihydrogen monoxide is also related to all vaccines.  You should look deeply into that awful chemical.

So is energy.  Be careful, vaccines were made with heat and that can kill if you get too much of it!

I'm pretty sure they also use glass to store them, and we all know how that can cut you if you are not careful.  Can we be sure the COVID vaccine doesn't have tiny shards of glass in them that will puncture our cell walls and allow our vital fluids to be stolen?

Is the vaccine contagious?  Oh my, it might be.

These are all questions we must answer.  Best to stay away far from other people, just in case they have the vaccine.

I'd use a social distancing of at least 1000 feet if I were you, sandokhan.  Better to be safe than sorry. 

Looks like HeLa cell lines is his new thing. I wonder what will be next.

Looks like HeLa cell lines is his new thing. I wonder what will be next.

Hopefully something harmless like claiming cheese is made from meat or something.

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 12, 2021, 03:08:26 PM

I recently found the below article:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/bill-sardi/when-dr-fauci-said-it-wasnt-a-virus/

It supports the Sandokhan idea with some good references.

What references would those be?  I see an average right-wing conspiracy laden pile of messy nonsense.

If I write a blog saying COVID is caused by grape jelly, will you quote it and claim it supports that theory too?

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 12, 2021, 03:08:26 PM

I recently found the below article:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/bill-sardi/when-dr-fauci-said-it-wasnt-a-virus/

It supports the Sandokhan idea with some good references.

You couldn't be more wrong. His paper is talking about what lead to peoples' deaths. He is saying people died from bacterial pneumonia rather than a flu virus. He did not say the virus doesn't exist. Non science non medical people don't understand what he said.

He said people with the virus most likely died from bacterial pneumonia. This is because the virus weakened their immune system.

Go to the real source instead of some person who is known to their state of residence as having a medial handicap. Then, learn to comprehend the actual article.

I'm sorry. Looks like you do not know how science works!

From your point of view, reference means the World Health Organization, the CDC Organization, the universities funded by the government and the journals that publish and promote their point of view.

But in our opinion; Science is just a paradigm. Science cannot validate an objective fact. that means a group of scientists can agree or disagree with a paradigm!

For example, the geocentric model can be true, it depends on how you interpret your observations!

As George Ellis says: "I can construct for you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations. You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that."- Physicist, George F. R. Ellis

The same is true of Covid-19. For example, many experts like Dr Andrew Kaufman say that the COV-SARS-2 does not exist at all and that it is Exosomes. They build a scientific paradigm around this assumption and interpret observations based on it.

Don't forget Science is not what government organizations tell us, And don't forget Germ theory of disease is still a theory, Not a Fact!

I suggest you read the following links. To wake you up man!


https://creation.com/power-of-the-paradigm
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j20_1/j20_1_19-25.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions
https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

I'm sorry. Looks like you do not know how science works!

Don't forget Science is not what government organizations tell us, And don't forget Germ theory of disease is still a theory, Not a Fact!

Riiiiight.  The old "It's just a theory" argument, which proves conclusively that you have no idea how science works or what "theory" means in a scientific context.

If you want to deny that bacteria and viruses exist, have fun with that. Just stay away from other people so you're not a danger to them. Feel free to get sick from whatever diseases you want in the privacy of your own home. Bathe in applesauce or whatever quack medical treatment you're fixated on today and leave modern medicine for the rest of us.

I'm sorry. Looks like you do not know how science works!

From your point of view, reference means the World Health Organization, the CDC Organization, the universities funded by the government and the journals that publish and promote their point of view.

What? My point is from science. You linked to someone giving an uneducated opinion about a journal article.

...

The same is true of Covid-19. For example, many experts like Dr Andrew Kaufman say that the COV-SARS-2 does not exist at all and that it is Exosomes. They build a scientific paradigm around this assumption and interpret observations based on it.

COV-SARS-2 doesn't exist because it's SARS-COV-2. Put some effort in.

We know SARS-COV-2 exists because of all the research that has gone in to it. It's been sequenced Thousands and thousands of times. The mutation of it are being tracked. You are using your lack of knowledge as evidence for your argument.

Don't forget Science is not what government organizations tell us, And don't forget Germ theory of disease is still a theory, Not a Fact!

I suggest you read the following links. To wake you up man!


https://creation.com/power-of-the-paradigm
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j20_1/j20_1_19-25.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions
https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

Religion is not science. It does brain wash and control people like you.

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 14, 2021, 01:00:29 AM

I'm sorry. Looks like you do not know how science works!

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 14, 2021, 01:00:29 AM

Don't forget Science is not what government organizations tell us, And don't forget Germ theory of disease is still a theory, Not a Fact!

Riiiiight.  The old "It's just a theory" argument, which proves conclusively that you have no idea how science works or what "theory" means in a scientific context.

Yes, a theory is just a theory and does not say anything about the truth of the empirical world!
I am a seeker of truth, not a seeker of theories. Don't forget, There were many theories that are no longer accepted by the mainstream!
Go and read the below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superseded_theories_in_science#Superseded_theories

A theory is just the opinion of some scientists who think that their hypothesis better fits the observations. Go and read conventionalism in the philosophy of science.

The Germ theory of disease is pseudoscience like the Big Bang theory!

http://arxiv.org/abs/1703.02389

"I argue that some important elements of the current cosmological model are "conventionalist" in the sense defined by Karl Popper. These elements include dark matter and dark energy; both are auxiliary hypotheses that were invoked in response to observations that falsified the standard model  as it existed at the time. The use of conventionalist stratagems in response to unexpected observations implies that the field of cosmology is in a state of "degenerating problemshift" in the language of Imre Lakatos. I show that the "concordance" argument, often put forward by cosmologists in support of the current paradigm, is weaker than the convergence arguments that were made in the past in support of the atomic theory of matter or the quantization of energy."

If you want to deny that bacteria and viruses exist, have fun with that. Just stay away from other people so you're not a danger to them. Feel free to get sick from whatever diseases you want in the privacy of your own home. Bathe in applesauce or whatever quack medical treatment you're fixated on today and leave modern medicine for the rest of us.

Looks like you still don't understand what I'm talking about!
No one can deny the existence of viruses/bacterias because they are observable and measurable! Virus and bacteria are a fact because they are observable, but if you say they are the cause of disease, it is no longer a fact, but a theory and hypothesis, and in this case, there are some alternative theories.

Consider the Redshift. It is a fact because it is observable and measurable, but if you say it is evidence for expanding space, it is no longer a fact but a theory!
There are alternative theories without expanding space. You only need a few auxiliary hypotheses to prevent the alternative theory from being falsified.

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 14, 2021, 01:00:29 AM

I'm sorry. Looks like you do not know how science works!

From your point of view, reference means the World Health Organization, the CDC Organization, the universities funded by the government, and the journals that publish and promote their point of view.

What? My point is from science. You linked to someone giving an uneducated opinion about a journal article.

You had the wrong conclusion from what I said.
I just mentioned that many scientists thought the cause of death At pandemic 1918 was a virus, but later they said that most deaths were caused by bacteria. Tomorrow, this theory may be falsified and they say that the cause of most deaths was climate change! You can not trust the science!

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 14, 2021, 01:00:29 AM

The same is true of Covid-19. For example, many experts like Dr Andrew Kaufman say that the COV-SARS-2 does not exist at all and that it is Exosomes. They build a scientific paradigm around this assumption and interpret observations based on it.

COV-SARS-2 doesn't exist because it's SARS-COV-2. Put some effort in.

We know SARS-COV-2 exists because of all the research that has gone in to it. It's been sequenced Thousands and thousands of times. The mutation of it are being tracked. You are using your lack of knowledge as evidence for your argument.

Sequencing is just information and does not mean that the SARS-COV-2 virus really exists!
Even if you assume that the SARS-COV-2 virus really exists, it does not mean that it is the cause of the covid19!
You only have one theory that some scientists disagree with, nothing more!

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 14, 2021, 01:00:29 AM

Don't forget Science is not what government organizations tell us, And don't forget Germ theory of disease is still a theory, Not a Fact!

I suggest you read the following links. To wake you up man!


https://creation.com/power-of-the-paradigm
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j20_1/j20_1_19-25.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions
https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

Religion is not science. It does brain wash and control people like you.

Creation is not a religion. It is a scientific theory based on the available evidence and observations!
On the other hand, the evolution is a religion and pseudoscience.
It has been preserved with "Ad hoc". This means that evolution has been repeatedly falsified, but through additional auxiliary hypotheses, it has been kept alive as a scientific theory.

Go to the below link and read it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem#Falsifiability

Nowadays, there is a difference of opinion among scientists. Approximately 5 percent of scientists believe that the observations say that creation has occurred. They are building a scientific paradigm around this evidence!
Go to the below links and read the scientific papers:
https://doi.org/10.15385/jpicc.2018.8.1.41
https://doi.org/10.15385/jpicc.2018.8.1.4
https://doi.org/10.15385/jpicc.2018.8.1.8
https://doi.org/10.15385/jpicc.2018.8.1.7
https://doi.org/10.15385/jpicc.2018.8.1.6
https://doi.org/10.15385/jpicc.2018.8.1.5

Quote from: JJA on January 14, 2021, 05:50:23 AM

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 14, 2021, 01:00:29 AM

I'm sorry. Looks like you do not know how science works!

Quote from: flat_theory_is_wrong on January 14, 2021, 01:00:29 AM

Don't forget Science is not what government organizations tell us, And don't forget Germ theory of disease is still a theory, Not a Fact!

Riiiiight.  The old "It's just a theory" argument, which proves conclusively that you have no idea how science works or what "theory" means in a scientific context.

Yes, a theory is just a theory and does not say anything about the truth of the empirical world!

You still don't seem to understand what 'theory' means in science.  Or science in general.  Or medicine.  Or disease.

I suggest you do some further reading and study.

Until then I still insist you stay home away from anyone until you learn how not to spread disease and are no longer a danger to yourself and others.

Just a helpful suggestion.

Has someone asked already the obvious question of, "Why lie"

Because, why. Whats the point, whats the gain, how does this play out?

But where is the fun in that, I guess I'll go down the list.

First.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.573.8374&rep=rep1&type=pdf

This paper never says SARS was caused by mycobacterium, it states some cases that showed similar symptoms to the SARS epidemic were identified as having been a TB related mycobacterium.

Furthermore, SARS isn't a disease, SARS is something that results from a disease. just like AIDS isn't the disease, HIV is.

http://www.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_Flu/Tuberculosis/tuberculosis

Sorry, thats a garbage site, find me a scientific paper from a peer reviewed journal or this is dead in the water. H1N1 is one of the multiple versions of influenza virus. H3H2, Victoria or Yamagata being other versions. So saying H1N1, a virus, is caused by mycobacteria is laughable and shows why that link can be tossed out of hand.

Obviously Dr. Didier Raoult is not allowed to speak the truth since he is using azithromycin (an antibiotic used to treat mycobacterium avium and mycobacterium tuberculosis) and hydroxychloroquine (used for intracellular TB) to treat the coronavirus.

Actually doctors prescribe around 5 to 6 antibiotics to treat mycobacterium, not just that. However, lets move past that and focus on the prime way your diseased mind is missing the point here.

COVID-19 attacks the lining of the lungs, this causes two things, inflammation and mucus build up. When this happens in the lungs, the chance of catching a bacterial infection skyrocket. 

So doctors in bad COVID cases are pre-emptively prescribing broad spectrum (what azithromycin is) antibiotics to keep secondary bacterial infections from taking hold in an already weakened body.

AIDS patients are also on broad spectrum antibiotics, are you saying that proves HIV is actually a bacterium?

The Russian government is prepared to treat 150 million people with mefloquine/azithromycin/penicillin:
https://freenews.live/russia-has-created-a-drug-for-the-treatment-of-coronavirus/

That was posted in March of 2020, last I heard Russia was still being ravaged by COVID, so I'll throw that link away.

BCG vaccine (commonly used to inoculate against tuberculosis (TB)) is also used to treat the coronavirus:
https://www.rt.com/news/485206-tb-vaccine-covid-19/
No vaccine has ever been formulated to treat two different illnesses.
BCG works because we are dealing with a mycobacterium epidemy.

RT is a known Russian propaganda outlet, also getting tossed, want to use this then find a scientific paper on it from a peer reviewed journal and I will read it.

Fair nuff?

Furthermore, SARS isn't a disease, SARS is something that results from a disease. just like AIDS isn't the disease, HIV is.

Actually, SARS is the disease caused by the virus designated SARS-CoV (or SARS-CoV-1) just like AIDS is the disease caused by the virus designated HIV and COVID-19 is the disease caused by the virus designated SARS-CoV-2.

Actually, SARS is the disease caused by the virus designated SARS-CoV (or SARS-CoV-1) just like AIDS is the disease caused by the virus designated HIV and COVID-19 is the disease caused by the virus designated SARS-CoV-2.

As I understood it, SARS was the syndrome, Sever Acute Respiratory Syndrome, or constellation of symptoms caused by an underlying disease, but in itself wasn't the disease, I didn't know it itself was considered a disease. Though this might be semantics or my bad vocabulary.

Though this might be semantics or my bad vocabulary.

^ Most likely this.  That and the fact that a lot of medical/scientific terms have very specific meanings that often get somewhat muddled when used in general conversation.

Quote from: Lemmiwinks on January 27, 2021, 02:30:03 PM

Though this might be semantics or my bad vocabulary.

^ Most likely this.  That and the fact that a lot of medical/scientific terms have very specific meanings that often get somewhat muddled when used in general conversation.

I am not a medical professional, but I work in an adjacent field and have a pretty extensive bio/chem/micro education background... just enough to get me in trouble when trying to explain things lol.

Even as I typed that I thought, is a syndrome also a disease? Why then have syndromes and diseases? It must be meaningfully distinct from disease or else, why have the word?

And I have a strict no google policy so I cocked that gun and went for it.