Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?

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rabinoz

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Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« on: April 10, 2020, 03:23:21 PM »
Sandokhan in I have fallen extremely ill tonight « Reply #36 on: April 10, 2020, 11:42:14 PM » claimed this:
Quote from: Sandokhan

(taken from the American Medical Association Encyclopedia)

It is the common cold.
SARS was caused by mycobacterium:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.573.8374&rep=rep1&type=pdf
H1N1 was also caused by mycobacterium:
http://www.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_Flu/Tuberculosis/tuberculosis

Obviously Dr. Didier Raoult is not allowed to speak the truth since he is using azithromycin (an antibiotic used to treat mycobacterium avium and mycobacterium tuberculosis) and hydroxychloroquine (used for intracellular TB) to treat the coronavirus.
The Russian government is prepared to treat 150 million people with mefloquine/azithromycin/penicillin:
https://freenews.live/russia-has-created-a-drug-for-the-treatment-of-coronavirus/
BCG vaccine (commonly used to inoculate against tuberculosis (TB)) is also used to treat the coronavirus:
https://www.rt.com/news/485206-tb-vaccine-covid-19/
No vaccine has ever been formulated to treat two different illnesses.
BCG works because we are dealing with a mycobacterium epidemy.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 03:32:16 PM by rabinoz »

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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2020, 03:50:02 PM »
Quote from: Sandokhan
I have fallen extremely ill tonight « Reply #36 on: April 10, 2020, 11:42:14 PM »

(taken from the American Medical Association Encyclopedia)

It is the common cold.
SARS was caused by mycobacterium:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.573.8374&rep=rep1&type=pdf
H1N1 was also caused by mycobacterium:
http://www.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_Flu/Tuberculosis/tuberculosis

Obviously Dr. Didier Raoult is not allowed to speak the truth since he is using azithromycin (an antibiotic used to treat mycobacterium avium and mycobacterium tuberculosis) and hydroxychloroquine (used for intracellular TB) to treat the coronavirus.


Thanks!
That's what I said. "Some common colds are caused by human rhinoviruses and some common colds are caused by a type of coronavirus!

Quote from: The Union: A Century of Leadership in Lung Health
COVID-19 and TB: Frequently Asked Questions

The novel coronavirus-19 (nCoV-19) or severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is a new coronavirus that was only recently discovered in 2019. The virus causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

Tuberculosis (TB) is caused by Mycobacterium tuberculosis, a bacterium known since 1882 when it was discovered by Dr Robert Koch, but there is historical evidence of TB in humans for thousands of years.

Not acceptable!
I asked for proof that "Dr. Didier Raoult is not allowed to speak the truth" and all you give YOUR opinion: "Obviously Dr. Didier Raoult is not allowed to speak the truth.".
YOUR opinion is NOT proof!


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Lorddave

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 11:50:05 PM »
Still not seeing 'sheep' here.  It does kill.  Far worse than the common cold.  Plus, I mean, family is a big god damn grouping.

Like family Felidae covers everything from Tigers to house cats.  Corona is a tiger.  Common cold is a house cat.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2020, 01:02:59 AM »
Still not seeing 'sheep' here.  It does kill.  Far worse than the common cold.  Plus, I mean, family is a big god damn grouping.

Like family Felidae covers everything from Tigers to house cats.  Corona is a tiger.  Common cold is a house cat.
I still haven't fathomed any 'sheep' connection.

The rest is a bit long but gives the source of Sandokhan "quote".

That screenshot of a FaceBook post by Phtm F Harlock came from here:
Quote from: Louis Baudoin-Laarman, AFP USA, Thursday 05 March 2020
Coronavirus hoax spreads online after Rush Limbaugh broadcast
Conservative US radio host Rush Limbaugh compared the novel coronavirus to “a common cold," prompting debate over the virus’ lethality. This is misleading; the strain discovered in late 2019 differs from and is more deadly than the human coronaviruses that can cause a cold, health experts say.

I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks,” Limbaugh said of the novel coronavirus on his show on February 24, 2020. Limbaugh was decrying the virus “being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump.



A similar theory took hold on social media in the days following Limbaugh’s remark, though without any explicit connection to the radio host. Some Facebook users began to share a photo of an old medical textbook citing the common cold as a possible condition caused by coronaviruses.



Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses, some of which can cause the common cold.

However, as the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) states on its website: “The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.”
<< etc, etc. >>

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2020, 01:15:09 AM »
“The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.”

Of course is not the same.

It is mycobacterium avium/mycobacterium tuberculosis.

Even Dr. Raoult is not allowed to speak the truth regarding the true cause of the epidemy.

Yet, Dr. Raoult used hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat the coronavirus.

"Azithromycin, an antibiotic with no antiviral activity whatsoever.

Azithromycin is a first-line drug against Mycobacterium avium, which can simulate obstructive lung disease, and every other sign or symptom of COVID-19 documented to date. In addition azithromycin is a second or third-line drug against drug-resistant Mycobacterium tuberculosis.

Not only does the drug hydroxychloroquine inhibit intracellular TB, but it acts synergistically against mycobacterial disease when combined with certain antimycobacterials. Azithromycin is also used as an antimycobacterial."

Corona is a PASSENGER VIRUS.

A passenger virus is a virus that is frequently found in samples from diseased tissue but does not contribute to causing the disease.

Antibiotics like azithromycin by definition have no activity against viruses.

Since it is universally known that antibiotics do not have any effect on viruses, including COVID-19 (later renamed SARS-CoV-2), then if the antibiotic azithromycin was effective against COVID-19, then COVID-19 could not be a virus.

Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer

The Russian government is prepared to treat 150 million people with mefloquine/azithromycin/penicillin:

https://freenews.live/russia-has-created-a-drug-for-the-treatment-of-coronavirus/

BCG vaccine (commonly used to inoculate against tuberculosis (TB)) is also used to treat the coronavirus:

https://www.rt.com/news/485206-tb-vaccine-covid-19/

No vaccine has ever been formulated to treat two different illnesses.

Bcg works because we are dealing with a mycobacterium epidemy.



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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 01:21:34 AM »
“The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.”

Of course is not the same.

It is mycobacterium avium/mycobacterium tuberculosis.

No! SARS-CoV-2 is not a "mycobacterium avium/mycobacterium tuberculosis" that is not a virus.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2020, 01:48:58 AM »
SARS most definitely is mycobacterium:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.573.8374&rep=rep1&type=pdf

H1N1 was also caused by mycobacterium:

http://www.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_Flu/Tuberculosis/tuberculosis


The mycobacterium epidemy of 1918-1919 (aka "spanish flu") came in three waves.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2020, 01:52:26 AM »
By the way... I can prove the Earth is flat using the mycobacterium outbreak in no time at all (via Reich's bions/T-bacilli and the concept of biochirality).

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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2020, 03:07:50 AM »
“The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.”

Of course is not the same.
It is mycobacterium avium/mycobacterium tuberculosis.
Incorrect. Not only Dr. Didier Raoult but everybody else that I can find stress that  the COVID-19 is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 a virus!

Quote from: sandokhan
Even Dr. Raoult is not allowed to speak the truth regarding the true cause of the epidemy.
So you say, without the slightest bit of evidence!

Quote from: sandokhan
Yet, Dr. Raoult used hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat the coronavirus.
"Azithromycin, an antibiotic with no antiviral activity whatsoever.
Yes "Dr. Raoult used hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to treat the coronavirus" in a poorly run small trial that did seem to assist some, probably because they had secondary bacterial infection which is not uncommon.

Quote from: sandokhan
Azithromycin is a first-line drug against Mycobacterium avium, which can simulate obstructive lung disease, and every other sign or symptom of COVID-19 documented to date. In addition azithromycin is a second or third-line drug against drug-resistant Mycobacterium tuberculosis.

Not only does the drug hydroxychloroquine inhibit intracellular TB, but it acts synergistically against mycobacterial disease when combined with certain antimycobacterials. Azithromycin is also used as an antimycobacterial."
See below re "hydroxychloroquine" 'damping excessive immune response' and "Azithromycin is also used as an antimycobacterial".

Quote from: sandokhan
Corona is a PASSENGER VIRUS.

A passenger virus is a virus that is frequently found in samples from diseased tissue but does not contribute to causing the disease.
Sure Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer might claim that but after other claims he's made I doubt many regard him as any authority on COVID-19.

Quote from: sandokhan
Antibiotics like azithromycin by definition have no activity against viruses.

Since it is universally known that antibiotics do not have any effect on viruses, including COVID-19 (later renamed SARS-CoV-2), then if the antibiotic azithromycin was effective against COVID-19, then COVID-19 could not be a virus.

Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer
Which is why Dr Raoult's limited trial had very mixed results.
Up to 50% of COVID-19 deaths can be due to,pneumonia caused by secondary bacterial infection.
Antibiotics do assist recovery in these cases -,hence the mixed results.

And the above shows that the following is quite a fallacious conclusion  "if the antibiotic azithromycin was effective against COVID-19, then COVID-19 could not be a virus."
There seems little evidence that "the antibiotic azithromycin was effective against COVID-19" itself but was effective against secondary bacterial infections.

Quote from: sandokhan
The Russian government is prepared to treat 150 million people with mefloquine/azithromycin/penicillin:
https://freenews.live/russia-has-created-a-drug-for-the-treatment-of-coronavirus/
Sure, but did you read it? That just reinforces what I said above, much appreciated!
Quote
“The drug, Mefloquine, with high selectivity blocks the cytopathic effect of the coronavirus in cell culture and prevents its replication, and the immunosuppressive effect of mefloquine prevents the activation of the inflammatory response caused by the virus. The addition of macrolide antibiotics and synthetic penicillin not only prevents the formation of a secondary bacterial-viral syndrome but also increases the concentration of antiviral agents in the blood plasma and lungs. This will ensure effective treatment of patients with various degrees of coronavirus infection,”
Quote from: sandokhan
BCG vaccine (commonly used to inoculate against tuberculosis (TB)) is also used to treat the coronavirus:
https://www.rt.com/news/485206-tb-vaccine-covid-19/

No vaccine has ever been formulated to treat two different illnesses.
That is quite incorrect as has been pointed out to you before! And BCG, in particular is commonly used for Hansen's disease.
Quote
BCG vaccination | Queensland Health
BCG can also help prevent leprosy (Hansen's Disease). BCG vaccination is recommended for newborn babies of parents with leprosy or with a family history of leprosy. Leprosy is very rare in Australia

Quote from: sandokhan
BCG works because we are dealing with a mycobacterium epidemy.
No it does not because we are NOT "dealing with a mycobacterium" pandemic!

Why is it that everybody' I can find, except you and Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer, seem to know that COVID-19 is caused by the virus, SARS-CoV-2.

Do you know more about microbiologist that all these microbiologists, including the somewhat controversial Dr. Didier Raoult?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 03:35:15 AM by rabinoz »

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2020, 03:27:29 AM »
Dr. Didier Raoult and "poorly run small trial" do not belong in the same sentence.

He is considered to be the top microbiologist in the world.

Viruses do not respond to antibiotics. Azithromycin is an antibiotic. Hydroxychloroquine is used for inhibiting intracellular TB.

The Russians are using antibiotics to treat a "virus".

Hansen's disease is also caused by mycobacterium, thus the explanation provided by Dr. Broxmeyer stands correct.

One cannot use BCG against a virus, by definition.

It seems that this "virus" can be cured very fast using antibiotics and BCG, both by definition are medications used as a first line defense for TB.


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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2020, 05:40:23 AM »
Dr. Didier Raoult and "poorly run small trial" do not belong in the same sentence.
Yes, they do and that is why I put them in the same sentence! You might read a long paper about Dr. Didier Raoult and his trials:
        More on Chloroquine/Azithromycin. And On Dr. Raoult.
and Hydroxychloroquine-COVID-19 study did not meet publishing society’s “expected standard”
Quote from: sandokhan
He is considered to be the top microbiologist in the world.
Not quite! He is a leading,if somewhat controversial, microbiologist considered by some as the top microbiologist in France.
Quote
He was "classified among the ten leading French researchers by the journal Nature, for the number of his publications (a credit of more than two thousand) and for his citations number", in 2008, as reported by a daily economic newspaper covering his work.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
He is one of the 99 most cited microbiologists in the world and one of the 73 most highly cited French scientists.
Quote from: sandokhan
Viruses do not respond to antibiotics. Azithromycin is an antibiotic. Hydroxychloroquine is used for inhibiting intracellular TB.
Learn to read! I never said that viruses do respond to antibiotics!

Quote from: sandokhan
The Russians are using antibiotics to treat a "virus".
No, they are using antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections caused by COVID-19 and these are the cause of many of the deaths!
Read what they actually write, not what you want them to say! Read it again!

Note that malaria is a parasitic disease but the drug Mefloquine is not specifically an anti-parasitic drug. It has a more general action'.
Quote from: STEVE COWAN, MARCH 28, 2020
Russia has created a drug for the treatment of coronavirus
The FMBA of Russia presented the antimalarial drug “Mefloquine” for the treatment of coronavirus infection.

“The research and production center of the FMBA of Russia, taking into account the Chinese and French experience, has developed a treatment regimen for coronavirus infection based on the antimalarial drug mefloquine,” the press service noted.

“The drug with high selectivity blocks the cytopathic effect of the coronavirus in cell culture and prevents its replication, and the immunosuppressive effect of mefloquine prevents the activation of the inflammatory response caused by the virus. The addition of macrolide antibiotics and synthetic penicillin not only prevents the formation of a secondary bacterial-viral syndrome but also increases the concentration of antiviral agents in the blood plasma and lungs. This will ensure effective treatment of patients with various degrees of coronavirus infection,” said Veronika Skvortsova, head of the FMBA of Russia.

This will ensure the effective treatment of patients with COVID-19 of varying severity.

Also, based on mefloquine, an effective and safe scheme for the prevention of coronavirus infection is being developed.
The virus kills the bodies cells but that cell death is of itself the cause of the most severe symptoms. The dead virus-containing cells appear as foreign matter to the body and can cause a "cytokine storm - that can both sicken and kill patients who are infected with certain strains of flu virus" - that is for the 'flu virus but the SARS-CoV-2 can provoke the same response.

And, as written above, "the immunosuppressive effect of mefloquine prevents the activation of the inflammatory response caused by the virus" - it suppresses this cytokine storm.

So the mefloquine does not protect against the virus itself but against this secondary effect.

Quote from: sandokhan
Hansen's disease is also caused by mycobacterium, thus the explanation provided by Dr. Broxmeyer stands correct.
So? You specifically said "No vaccine has ever been formulated to treat two different illnesses."
And I showed that BCG is used as a vaccine against TB and Hansen's disease. I could have given more diseases that BCG is used to treat too.

Quote from: sandokhan
One cannot use BCG against a virus, by definition.
And whose definition is that - yours?
The BCG does not directly protect against the virus but "raises the bodies own defences - the immune system.

Quote from: sandokhan
It seems that this "virus" can be cured very fast using antibiotics and BCG, both by definition are medications used as a first-line defense for TB.
No, the antibiotics are not for treating the viral disease COVID-19 but the secondary bacterial infection that seems to be the cause of death in up to 50% of SARS-CoV-2 fatalities and that Russian reference specifically states that!
No one is saying that the antibiotics are effective directly against the virus.

And I doubt that it is, as yet, proven that COVID-19 can be cured very fast using . . . BCG but it looks hopeful,

But the bottom line is that COVID-19 is caused by the SARS-CoV-2, a virus, and everybody (Dr Dr. Didier Raoult, those that wrote of the Russian treatment and everybody that I can) find except you and Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer.


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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2020, 05:52:57 AM »
Give it up Rab, Sandy is the number 1 genius in the world and knows absolutely everything, even things that have not been discovered yet.
And how dare you say that an inconclusive trial study containing 36 people is not the biggest human trial ever done?

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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2020, 06:04:15 AM »
Give it up Rab, Sandy is the number 1 genius in the world and knows absolutely everything, even things that have not been discovered yet.
And how dare you say that an inconclusive trial study containing 36 people is not the biggest human trial ever done?
I should have realised that Sandokhan knows more than microbiologists and virologist just as he knows more than all the astronomers and physicists.
And playing chess with a pigeon does get frustrating and messy >:(.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2020, 06:09:04 AM »
The point is that the coronavirus has not been around long enough for in-depth study, and should it prove to be merely a “passenger” virus, secondary to an underlying bacterial or mycobacterial cause, such a microbe, perhaps similar to the Beijing strain of mycobacteria isolated in Milan prior to its COVID-19 outbreak, would then assume the mantel of the true “underlying condition” and not the virus.

Today, although tuberculosis is still a global pandemic, it is still treatable, but only if looked for and considered. What is the cause of the present Pandemic/Epidemic? Most are 98% certain that it is a virus. But until we are 100% certain, which we are not, we still need to keep a differential diagnosis open as to the possibility that we are dealing with a “passenger” virus with a deadly underlying cause. To do otherwise, would be a disservice to many.

Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer


Secondary effects? How do you know that Covid-19 is not just a passenger virus, and that the true cause of the outbreak is not TB? What proof have governments offered to their citizens, other than stating it so, that it is a virus and not mycobacterium that is to blame for this epidemy?


Here is a mainstream paper which does show that the spanish flu of 1918-1919 was caused by TB, and not a virus:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2740912/


Your approach was tried back in 1918-1919: they said it was a virus, they came up with an antiviral vaccine, and things got much worse.


For those who want to know the truth, here it is:

https://www.academia.edu/35088077/The_Great_Influenza_Pandemic_What_Really_Happened_in_1918


Hansen's disease is also caused by mycobacterium, thus the explanation provided by Dr. Broxmeyer stands correct.

One cannot use BCG against a virus, by definition.

The argument using the "immune system" does not work with Hansen's disease.

"In nature there is a phenomena which happens probably millions of times a day in which one colony of bacteria or mycobacteria sends out its viral phages (bacteriophages or mycobacteriophages) that live inside it to kill another colony of the same type of organism......a sort of natural lysogeny. The bacterialviruses called phages are the most plentiful viruses on earth. But they are species specific in that they only attack like species. The Mycobacterium bovis in BCG are closely related to and in fact part of the Mycobacterium tuberculosis complex. Therefore, the phages inside BCG have the potential to destroy TB and other related mycobacteria.

The destruction of TB bacilli in the body is in and of itself “bolstering the immune system”, as there is no other microbe known to man that is quite as immunosuppressive.

And that is exactly how BCG works  ̶  not against "a virus" and not through “training” or “bolstering” the immune system, but by BCG (Mycobacterium bovis) shooting off phages to kill closely related mycobacteria or mycobacterial colonization, latent or active, in the system. Since phages are species specific, they are often used for diagnostic purposes. So just the mere successful use of dilute mycobacteria (BCG) with its mycobacteriophages is evidence in itself that the target, the coronavirus, is not of a spontaneous occurrence, but a mycobacterial generated disease."


Certainly it cannot be a virus, since scientists want to use BCG to cure the outbreak.


We are dealing with an extremely serious situation, with huge repercusions for the economy, the finances, the society in general.

Let us heed Dr. Broxmeyer's words:

What is the cause of the present Pandemic/Epidemic? Most are 98% certain that it is a virus. But until we are 100% certain, which we are not, we still need to keep a differential diagnosis open as to the possibility that we are dealing with a “passenger” virus with a deadly underlying cause. To do otherwise, would be a disservice to many.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2020, 06:37:54 AM »
We know it is not TB simply because TB has been around for a long time, which means that we would have gone through this centuries ago.
Also, TB is not as destructive as this, TB does virtually nothing if your immune system is in check. I live in a country with a very high concentration of TB. Chances are close to 100% that I have come in contact with people with TB, at least every year. Especially since I have to visit hospitals and prisons all the time for my work.
TB is dangerous only if you are immune system compromised.
So where does this leave us?

Either a brand new strain of TB has been created, which would have been discovered almost immediately as its not rocket science to detect TB.
or
There is a double effect of a new HIV virus going around ALONGSIDE a new strain of TB that is somehow becoming very contagious.

Yes, its impossible to know anything for 100% certain.

As we all know, there are only 3 certainties in life, Death, Taxes, and how much BS you can make up.


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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2020, 06:44:46 AM »
Fine, let's have it your way (this approach was tried before in 1918-1919 with catastrophic consequences).

There will be a forced worldwide vaccination program, most likely in the fall (or winter), occurring simultaneously with the second wave of the outbreak (this program certainly will be implemented, at the latest, at the beginning of 2021). Then, we shall see who is right. If it is a virus, then presumably this vaccine (which also might contain very dangerous substances) will provide relief and a cure. But if it is not a virus... we are looking at spanish flu 2.0.

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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2020, 07:54:17 AM »
Bacteria can be grown on media in a culture. Why has no one found mycobacterium tuberculosis?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2020, 08:37:29 AM »
Most PhDs in mycobacteriology/virology cannot tell the difference between mycobacterium and a virus.

"Moreover, the preferred form of both of these pathogens, once inside the body, is their
tiny, hard to diagnose viral like cell‐wall‐deficient (CWD) mycobacterial forms, which require special stains and special culture media, unavailable at most diagnostic centers.
This leaves a situation, in which Mycobacterium avium and its cell‐wall‐deficient forms, highly implicated here in the present pandemic, are being picked up, according to Mattman, only 16% of  the time through traditional methods.

Diagnosing a viral disease is no easy matter. Just toname a few instances, Lyme disease, mycoplasma pneumonia and Legionnaires' disease were all thought to be viruses. That is, until their respective bacteria were found. SARS itself, often compared with COVID-19, was misdiagnosed as avian influenzaA (or "bird flu"), the human metapneumoviruses (hMPV),and then a chlamydia-like, bacterial-like organism takenfrom patients during what later came to be known as the Guangdong outbreak."

Here is the classic work, Cell Wall Deficient Forms: mycobacterium are tiny, viral-like CWDF

https://books.google.ro/books?id=mincr2Hi81UC&printsec=frontcover&dq=mattman+cell+wall&hl=ro&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiaiq7sjt3oAhUOH5oKHTDeC7gQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=mattman%20cell%20wall&f=false

Mycobacteria tuberculosis (TB) acts like a virus. It is a seasonal infection peaking in winter just like cold and flu viruses. While the TB mycobacterium is spread throughout the year, it is only when vitamin D levels are low and the immune system weak that it produces symptoms. It is a cell-wall deficient germ that appears like a virus under a microscope. It attacks the lungs, resulting in inflammation that essentially drowns infected patients who cannot breathe, just like COVID-19 coronavirus is said to do.


This is the main reason why governments around the world have been able to tell their citizens that this outbreak is the coronavirus/covid-19, and nothing else/no other choice possible, without a single intervention by noted epidemiologists/virologists: they are unable to tell the difference between a simple virus and mycobacterium.



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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2020, 08:47:06 AM »
Fine, let's have it your way (this approach was tried before in 1918-1919 with catastrophic consequences).
Thanks for your permission, Ill phone WHO right away saying we can restart our current approach.

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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2020, 08:57:28 AM »
Bacteria can be grown on media in a culture. Why has no one found mycobacterium tuberculosis?

Still looking for the answer.
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2020, 09:10:37 AM »
Shannon Brownlee and Jeanne Lenzer are not new to writing sharp warnings regarding public health. Among their writings listed on Medline is a British Medical Journal  treatment entitled “Doctor takes ‘march of shame’ to atone for drugcompany payments”. That influenza vaccination and oral antiviral studies have been consistently pushed and paid for by pharmaceutical companies themselves is no secret. But once in a while, unsponsored papers such as Brownlee and Lenzer’s 2009 article in The Atlantic clear the misinformation:

Whether this season’s swine flu turns out to be deadly or mild, most experts agree that it’s only a matter of time before we’re hit by a truly devastating flu pandemic—one that might kill more people worldwide than have died of the plague and AIDS combined. In the U.S., the main lines of defense are pharmaceutical—vaccines and antiviral drugs to limit the spread of flu and prevent people from dying from it. Yet now some flu experts are challenging the medical orthodoxy and arguing that for those most in need of protection, flu shots and antiviral drugs may provide little to none. So where does that leave us if a bad pandemic strikes?

But what if everything we think we know about fighting influenza is wrong? What if flu vaccines do not protect people from dying—particularly the elderly, who account for 90 percent of deaths from seasonal flu? And what if the expensive antiviral drugs that the government has stockpiled over the past few years also have little, if any, power to reduce the number of people who die or are hospitalized? The U.S. government—with the support of leaders in the public-health and medical communities—has put its faith in the power of vaccines and antiviral drugs to limit the spread and lethality of swine flu. Other plans to contain the pandemic seem anemic by comparison. Yet some top flu researchers are deeply skeptical of both flu vaccines and antivirals. Like the engineers who warned for years about the levees of New Orleans, these experts caution that our defenses may be flawed, and quite possibly useless against a truly lethal flu. And that unless we are willing to ask fundamental questions about the science behind flu vaccines and antiviral drugs, we could find ourselves, in a bad epidemic, as helpless as the citizens of New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/11/does-the-vaccine-matter/307723/

Is it really a virus at all? For if it is indeed a form of viral, cell-wall-deficient mycobacteria
such as Mycobacterium influenzae or Mycobacterium tuberculosis, or Mycobacterium avium, as many physicians and scientists in the past have suggested, we could indeed find ourselves in the midst of another devastating, infectious Hurricane Katrina, worldwide.

Dr. L. Broxmeyer


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2020, 09:47:40 AM »
So you still can form your own opinion and instead need others to talk for you?

There are 21 companies working on treatments or vaccines. Let us all know how you know more then they do.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-nine-companies-are-working-on-coronavirus-treatments-or-vaccines-heres-where-things-stand-2020-03-06
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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2020, 10:12:41 AM »
This is what those companies know at the present time.

Definition

There are four different agents that cause diseases: virus (viral), bacterial, fungal, and protistan. The viral agents pass through the filters, but the bacterial, fungal, and protistan do not.

However, cell-wall-deficient virus-like mycobacterium also can pass through the microfilters.

Crofton was convinced by the confirmation of scientists like Calmette at Pasteur regarding how certain forms of tuberculosis, appearing both minuscule and viral, could pass through the smallest of filters. Crofton himself then established that tuberculosis could disappear into tissues as viruses did, and then go through filters which stopped cold even most ofthose “now invariably called viral disease”. “Surely, then”, Crofton concluded, “Tuberculosis has more right to be considered a true virus than these".

(Dr. William Crofton)



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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2020, 10:17:23 AM »
You have no idea what research the companies are performing.
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Shifter

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2020, 12:31:10 PM »
But if mycobacteria can grow in a petri dish then why has no one seemingly found any growing? Surely that would have hit the news somewhere in the world. I doubt there's a world wide cooperative conspiracy to mislead us all to what this is.

There's so much chatter about this or that working against the virus. Trump is staking the anti malaria drug as a 'game changer' using every glowing word short of 'cure' under the sun, based on 40 people in France getting it with mixed results a week later lol

If you catch a cold, I can sell you some herbal supplements that will clear you up in a week. When you come back a week later in good health, was it your body naturally killing the virus or the herbs that did it?

The mycobacteria claim that I have seen online is based on maybe people previously given the BCG vaccine having some effectiveness based on a very small sample size (you could look at another sample and see plenty of people who previously got the vaccine all dying)

But given 80% of people infected get nothing more than cold like symptoms and perhaps there could be 5-10x more people infected that we know about (just not tested because they are doing ok), any tiny and random sample size looking at a drug or treatment is meaningless.

You need a real study, very large sample and eliminate all variables to maintain integrity of the results. As of yet, none exist

This virus has been around since November and infected most of the world since January. I think scientists the world over have a handle on what they are dealing with. I doubt any keyboard warrior on the internet who may not have ever stepped foot in a lab knows more. Careful what you read out there
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rabinoz

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2020, 04:54:02 PM »
Most PhDs in mycobacteriology/virology cannot tell the difference between mycobacterium and a virus.
And YOU can?

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2020, 02:10:14 AM »
The lockdown, the quarantines, the forced vaccination program were tried before, with catastrophic consequences:





https://freepress.org/article/did-vaccine-experiment-us-soldiers-cause-%E2%80%9Cspanish-flu%E2%80%9D


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sokarul

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2020, 07:34:31 AM »
No.

The war was going on.  Nobody was talking about the flu. Spain was the first country to mention it science they did not have a media censorship. That is why it’s known as the Spanish Flu.
Lack of action was to blame.

Honestly just research for once.
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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2020, 08:27:13 AM »
Also, they did try to make a vaccine, but they did exactly what Sandy wants to do, and made a vaccine for the wrong thing instead.


The wrong thing was Pfeiffer's bacillus, a bacteria, and not a virus.
Which means it did bugger all while people died.
And even then, scientists warned that this vaccine was not properly tested.


Sandy, there is a real reason why scientists all around the world say a vaccine will take a long time to make, and that is because human trials need to be certain (As in, include more than 36 people) and need to be more effective than no vaccine. This testing method takes long, and when it works, it works.

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sandokhan

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Re: Is COVID-19 Caused by a Virus or a Mycobacterium?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2020, 09:15:08 AM »
Things haven't changed.

An antiviral vaccine weakens the immune system considerably, so that the pathogenic agent (the mycobacterium) has easier access to the host.

Most virologists had insisted, back in 1918, that it was a virus, nothing else. We are witnessing the very same approach today: a vaccine will be produced for the wrong illness.



A German team lead by virologist Hendrick Streeck has now researched the German Hot Spot Heinsberg. They tested 1000 randomized people and found that a whopping 15% was infected - most of them without showing any symptoms.

Based on this preliminary findings the scientists conclude that the letality of COVID-19 is 0,37%. They also conclude that the virus has successfully installed itself in the population and is impossible to eradicate without a year-long lock down, making herd immunity the preferential goal to achieve.

Here are the REAL numbers for the spanish flu of 1918-1919:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44446153?read-now=1&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents (100+ million victims)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 09:18:22 AM by sandokhan »