Is the covid-19 lethality in spain 35%?!

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Shifter

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #90 on: March 26, 2020, 07:50:03 AM »
As a general rule, China always manipulates the death toll. No matter the disaster. In fact, anything that puts China under a negative spotlight will be lied about. Source: My Chinese wife  8)

Keep in mind this is a government who arrested and tried to silence the doctor who first noticed this virus. Every piece of information that comes out of China, from the Chinese is first sanitised by the editors. You can bet every WHO official who came to China for an inspection had a minder and was bull shitted to in a most convincing manner the way North Korea lies in its guided tours to foreign tourists

Anyone who believes the Chinese government is an idiot. They even lie about something as simple as their air pollution index. You think if they knew of an extra tens of thousands of confirmed cases or had a few extra thousand dead they would be upfront about it if they believed they could get away with hiding it?

China lies

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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #91 on: March 26, 2020, 08:10:17 AM »
1) Please provide links to those threads 'with my brillian insights that I make left and right'.
We're in one right now.

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2) You think china didn't manipulate their numbers? Wow you are naive :)
Do you have any evidence whatsoever outside of Reddit telling you they definitely did?

How is it that redditors are convinced the Chinese data is fake because it just can't be true, but have no issue with the ones from South Korea, even though they show a very similar pattern?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 08:13:43 AM by Pezevenk »
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #92 on: March 26, 2020, 10:53:24 AM »
As a general rule, China always manipulates the death toll. No matter the disaster. In fact, anything that puts China under a negative spotlight will be lied about. Source: My Chinese wife  8)

Keep in mind this is a government who arrested and tried to silence the doctor who first noticed this virus. Every piece of information that comes out of China, from the Chinese is first sanitised by the editors. You can bet every WHO official who came to China for an inspection had a minder and was bull shitted to in a most convincing manner the way North Korea lies in its guided tours to foreign tourists

Anyone who believes the Chinese government is an idiot. They even lie about something as simple as their air pollution index. You think if they knew of an extra tens of thousands of confirmed cases or had a few extra thousand dead they would be upfront about it if they believed they could get away with hiding it?

China lies

Oh wow, what weird times we live in!
Now shifter apparently is the only person left, that has a brain.
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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #93 on: March 26, 2020, 11:17:09 AM »
1) Please provide links to those threads 'with my brillian insights that I make left and right'.
We're in one right now.
So, it's only this one thread that you don't like? I guess then you are - as usual - just making stuff up so it fits your narrative.

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2) You think china didn't manipulate their numbers? Wow you are naive :)
Do you have any evidence whatsoever outside of Reddit telling you they definitely did?

How is it that redditors are convinced the Chinese data is fake because it just can't be true, but have no issue with the ones from South Korea, even though they show a very similar pattern?
Ah yes, you are right, china is good and would never lie.

How DARE people critize and question china - they all belong in detention camps and their organs harvested.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 11:19:10 AM by Definitely Not Swedish »
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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2020, 11:32:04 AM »
1) Please provide links to those threads 'with my brillian insights that I make left and right'.
We're in one right now.
So, it's only this one thread that you don't like? I guess then you are - as usual - just making stuff up so it fits your narrative.
No, I don't like your other thread either, or the dumb posts about "why are they not just doing medical trials?"

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Ah yes, you are right, china is good and would never lie.

How DARE people critize and question china - they all belong in detention camps and their organs harvested.

How does any of this answer the question again? It's like me saying you can't trust data from the US by citing the lies about weapons of mass destruction, and then citing Ali Khamenei. Why is China's data unbelievable but not South Korea's again?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 11:34:51 AM by Pezevenk »
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2020, 11:38:48 AM »
1) Please provide links to those threads 'with my brillian insights that I make left and right'.
We're in one right now.
So, it's only this one thread that you don't like? I guess then you are - as usual - just making stuff up so it fits your narrative.
No, I don't like your other thread either, or the dumb posts about "why are they not just doing medical trials?"
Which other thread?
Also it took them way too long to start doing useful trials and research. Especially china produced nearly nothing useful. At least my university is now mass-testing 500 drugs in an automated laboratory tests with cell cultures. This should have been done months ago.

Anyway, when have you become this whiny bitch that you are now? You used to be able to take some shit before you started crying and bitching around.

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Ah yes, you are right, china is good and would never lie.

How DARE people critize and question china - they all belong in detention camps and their organs harvested.
How does any of this answer the question again? It's like me saying you can't trust data from the US by citing the lies about weapons of mass destruction, and then citing Ali Khamenei. Why is China's data unbelievable but not South Korea's again?
Their data is accurate. For sure. No doubts in my opinion, we should all trust them.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 11:40:21 AM by Definitely Not Swedish »
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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2020, 12:04:50 PM »
Which other thread?
Your very authoritative source of COVID and China facts.

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Also it took them way too long to start doing useful trials and research. Especially china produced nearly nothing useful. At least my university is now mass-testing 500 drugs in an automated laboratory tests with cell cultures. This should have been done months ago.

OH! OH REALLY! IT TOOK THEM TOO LONG! OH SHIT YOU GOTTA TELL THEM! THERE'S JUST NO FUCKING WAY THESE THINGS CAN'T BE INSTANTLY ORGANISED AND THERE ARE SPECIFIC PROCESSES BEHIND THESE THINGS!

And of course we all know China bad, so there's no way they did anything before your university decided to do their tests!

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Their data is accurate. For sure. No doubts in my opinion, we should all trust them.
Come on, it's a simple question, you can answer it. What's your super conclusive, well known evidence their numbers are fake and useless? If you don't like them we can use the ones from South Korea, they're pretty similar! But see, I don't trust SK, did you know they put in camps and murdered thousands of vagrants in 1988 and covered it up? Did you know they killed hundreds of thousands of villagers and blamed it on North Korea for decades before the truth came out? Did you know that they arrested a teacher for saying a few too many things about the Kwangju massacre? They sound pretty shady! But nevertheless reddit told me they are ok so idk.
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #97 on: March 26, 2020, 12:28:31 PM »
Which other thread?
Your very authoritative source of COVID and China facts.
This one thread I made contains more information than all posts you ever made - combined!
Also, it's not the same to question chinas numbers (=what the china government wanted to make public) and use some of their information and research (=which comes from doctors and other scientists).

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Also it took them way too long to start doing useful trials and research. Especially china produced nearly nothing useful. At least my university is now mass-testing 500 drugs in an automated laboratory tests with cell cultures. This should have been done months ago.

OH! OH REALLY! IT TOOK THEM TOO LONG! OH SHIT YOU GOTTA TELL THEM! THERE'S JUST NO FUCKING WAY THESE THINGS CAN'T BE INSTANTLY ORGANISED AND THERE ARE SPECIFIC PROCESSES BEHIND THESE THINGS!

And of course we all know China bad, so there's no way they did anything before your university decided to do their tests!
Yes of course they tried some stuff and got some results. It's just they didn't produce much that is useful, at least as far as I know. The current standard of care treatment is still supportive.
Anyway, just because they 'launched dozens of clinical trials' doens't mean they were actually conducted and concluded in an acceptable and useful way. The WHO (and some others) are doing that now, for example in the solidarity trial or the discovery trial.


Come on, it's a simple question, you can answer it. What's your super conclusive, well known evidence their numbers are fake and useless?
Please show me where I claimed I have super conclusive, well known evidence that china faked their numbers. Or are you just making things up now, because you cannot accept opinions that differ from yours?
But yeah, we should definitely trust the numbers coming from the government whose minister of foreign affairs claimed the virus was brought into china by the us army.
https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1238111898828066823
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 12:37:20 PM by Definitely Not Swedish »
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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #98 on: March 26, 2020, 01:06:25 PM »
Yes of course they tried some stuff and got some results. It's just they didn't produce much that is useful, at least as far as I know. The current standard of care treatment is still supportive.
Anyway, just because they 'launched dozens of clinical trials' doens't mean they were actually conducted and concluded in an acceptable and useful way. The WHO (and some others) are doing that now, for example in the solidarity trial or the discovery trial.

Yeah of course. Their results were useless and they probably didn't even carry them out lmao.

Were you one of those people on Reddit complaining about the pictures of Chinese nurses?

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Please show me where I claimed I have super conclusive, well known evidence that china faked their numbers.

Well you said Chinese data are "useless" for "well known reasons", but apparently you pulled that out of your ass too, I'm sorry for assuming you had something to back it up beyond "reddit says China bad".

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But yeah, we should definitely trust the numbers coming from the government whose minister of foreign affairs claimed the virus was brought into china by the us army.
https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1238111898828066823
Sorry to disappoint you but I am afraid you'll find plenty of crazy sentiments about the disease in the governments of many of the "good" countries. I wasn't informed the foreign affairs minister was personally in charge of collecting the data!
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #99 on: March 26, 2020, 01:20:53 PM »
Yes of course they tried some stuff and got some results. It's just they didn't produce much that is useful, at least as far as I know. The current standard of care treatment is still supportive.
Anyway, just because they 'launched dozens of clinical trials' doens't mean they were actually conducted and concluded in an acceptable and useful way. The WHO (and some others) are doing that now, for example in the solidarity trial or the discovery trial.

Yeah of course. Their results were useless and they probably didn't even carry them out lmao.
That's 100% not what I said. You did this basically every post. If you keep just randomly interpreting my posts, adding things and then attacking that, I'll just ignore you from now.

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Please show me where I claimed I have super conclusive, well known evidence that china faked their numbers.
Well you said Chinese data are "useless" for "well known reasons", but apparently you pulled that out of your ass too, I'm sorry for assuming you had something to back it up beyond "reddit says China bad".
I gave you like 11 links or so that showed how shitty the chinese government is. All those topics I mentioned are well known reasons, why you shouldn't trust the chinese government.
One link I posted is even showing the timeline of how china was covering up and lying about the disease.

But hey, if all the shady things going in in china; including not even having free access to the WWW like every first world country, is no red flag for you in terms of trusting data - hey, that's fine! You can do whatever you want, trust whoever you think deserves it :)

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But yeah, we should definitely trust the numbers coming from the government whose minister of foreign affairs claimed the virus was brought into china by the us army.
https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1238111898828066823
Sorry to disappoint you but I am afraid you'll find plenty of crazy sentiments about the disease in the governments of many of the "good" countries.
No you won't find those in any decent first world country that hasn't trump as a leader.
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Shifter

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #100 on: March 26, 2020, 02:54:20 PM »
Hey Pez are you calling my wife a liar? She spent more than 30 years listening to their bull shit. I think she knows more than you whether the CCP is trustworthy or not.

This is a government that would arrest people for posting pictures of Winnie the Pooh for Christ sake

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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #101 on: March 26, 2020, 02:54:58 PM »
Hey Pez are you calling my wife a liar? She spent more than 30 years listening to their bull shit. I think she knows more than you whether the CCP is trustworthy or not.

This is a government that would arrest people for posting pictures of Winnie the Pooh for Christ sake
Your wife collected the COVID data?
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #102 on: March 26, 2020, 03:01:51 PM »
Yes of course they tried some stuff and got some results. It's just they didn't produce much that is useful, at least as far as I know. The current standard of care treatment is still supportive.
Anyway, just because they 'launched dozens of clinical trials' doens't mean they were actually conducted and concluded in an acceptable and useful way. The WHO (and some others) are doing that now, for example in the solidarity trial or the discovery trial.

Yeah of course. Their results were useless and they probably didn't even carry them out lmao.
That's 100% not what I said. You did this basically every post. If you keep just randomly interpreting my posts, adding things and then attacking that, I'll just ignore you from now.

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Please show me where I claimed I have super conclusive, well known evidence that china faked their numbers.
Well you said Chinese data are "useless" for "well known reasons", but apparently you pulled that out of your ass too, I'm sorry for assuming you had something to back it up beyond "reddit says China bad".
I gave you like 11 links or so that showed how shitty the chinese government is. All those topics I mentioned are well known reasons, why you shouldn't trust the chinese government.
One link I posted is even showing the timeline of how china was covering up and lying about the disease.

But hey, if all the shady things going in in china; including not even having free access to the WWW like every first world country, is no red flag for you in terms of trusting data - hey, that's fine! You can do whatever you want, trust whoever you think deserves it :)

Quote
But yeah, we should definitely trust the numbers coming from the government whose minister of foreign affairs claimed the virus was brought into china by the us army.
https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1238111898828066823
Sorry to disappoint you but I am afraid you'll find plenty of crazy sentiments about the disease in the governments of many of the "good" countries.
No you won't find those in any decent first world country that hasn't trump as a leader.

Not in this post: any evidence, or any acknowledgement of the SK data.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 03:06:23 PM by Pezevenk »
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

*

Shifter

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #103 on: March 26, 2020, 03:10:45 PM »
Hey Pez are you calling my wife a liar? She spent more than 30 years listening to their bull shit. I think she knows more than you whether the CCP is trustworthy or not.

This is a government that would arrest people for posting pictures of Winnie the Pooh for Christ sake
Your wife collected the COVID data?

So you believe the CCP changed its ways and is now a beacon of honesty and benevolence after this virus?


OK then ::)

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #104 on: March 26, 2020, 03:16:33 PM »
Hey Pez are you calling my wife a liar? She spent more than 30 years listening to their bull shit. I think she knows more than you whether the CCP is trustworthy or not.

This is a government that would arrest people for posting pictures of Winnie the Pooh for Christ sake
Your wife collected the COVID data?

So you believe the CCP changed its ways and is now a beacon of honesty and benevolence after this virus?


OK then ::)

He thinks china is a shitty country and the numbers are rubbish.
But he just HAS to opposit everything I say, so he is now pretending that china is trustworthy.


The disease of disinformation first broke out in Wuhan. Its most prominent victim is a Wuhan doctor, Li Wenliang, who first posted an alert about a mysterious illness to a group chat of medical colleagues in late December. Accused of spreading rumors, he was summoned by health authorities in the middle of the night and forced to confess to making “false comments.” His warning went unheeded, and by early February he was dead from the virus.

As the epidemic began to take hold, Wuhan became a jarring tale of two different stories: a sanitized, government-approved version of events—and a very different reality on the ground. Private citizens posted cellphone videos as the quarantine was being imposed through brute force: neighbors and passersby being dragged kicking and screaming down corridors and into vans, or of workers hammering boards over the doors of apartment buildings. Meanwhile, state-controlled media posted a steady stream of cheery snippets showing what were allegedly virus patients, dancing beside their hospital beds, and happy health care workers shaving their hair to promote hygiene.

It got worse from there. At least three Chinese citizen journalists reporting on the virus have disappeared into detention, their whereabouts unknown. One, a former Chinese government television journalist, filmed his own arrest; his video has now been seen by more than 375,000 viewers on YouTube (though likely censored inside China). After criticizing Chinese President Xi Jinping’s response to the virus, the essayist and activist Xu Zhiyong is being held in secret detention and faces a potential 15-year prison sentence for “subversion.”




But don't worry. China is good. They would NEVER lie about their numbers. It is all just fake news.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 03:20:42 PM by Definitely Not Swedish »
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JerkFace

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #105 on: March 26, 2020, 03:41:45 PM »
While dumb and dumber  ( DNS & Pez ) debate irrelevant views on whether China sanitized their data  ( Spoiler Alert: They did ).  Neither has any clue about how to model the death rate.

There is more than enough data from Spain, Italy and USA,  of course you can argue that demographics will skew the Italian data,  just as a broken health system will skew the USA data,  but why not
take all the remaining data from the rest of the world,  and see how the models stack up against that.

BTW:  USA is now ahead of China on confirmed cases.  That was a day earlier than I thought.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 03:43:46 PM by JerkFace »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #106 on: March 26, 2020, 04:57:28 PM »
Hey Pez are you calling my wife a liar? She spent more than 30 years listening to their bull shit. I think she knows more than you whether the CCP is trustworthy or not.

This is a government that would arrest people for posting pictures of Winnie the Pooh for Christ sake
Your wife collected the COVID data?

So you believe the CCP changed its ways and is now a beacon of honesty and benevolence after this virus?


OK then ::)
I don't think anyone has to "change their ways". Are you saying other countries don't lie all the time? Do you think none of the stuff said about China are lies too? Do you think it is uncommon for governments to lie, and it is something exclusive to China? And yet you trust the numbers of other countries, but not China's, even though there are many other countries with numbers very similar to theirs. I am bringing up South Korea because they have better numbers than China (actually China's reported deaths compared to confirmed cases are slightly higher compared to the world average so far), and they had a very similar progression. Their active cases are going down too, just like in China, albeit with a small delay because the epidemic reached them later. Their mortality rates are significantly lower than China's. But no one acts like that is unrealistic. I don't believe any of these numbers are unrealistic. Countries in Asia had a better response than most western countries, might be because they have had many scares in the past.

It's not about who is or who isn't "benevolent". Is the west supposed to be more benevolent now? Germany is the richest country in the EU and they are known for producing lots of medical equipment. So, what did they (and France) do after COVID reached Europe? They banned their medical companies from making exports. We were supposed to be "friends" and all members of the EU and having solidarity etc etc. Again, they didn't just refuse to offer help, you can't even BUY from their companies now, they kept it all for themselves. All while Italy and Spain are suffering. Is this benevolence? Do you know who DID offer tons of help, both in equipment and in specialists? China. Was it benevolent when Trump tried to get German companies to only make a vaccine for the US?

This stuff doesn't look good for western countries, so it is in their interest to blame China for everything and anything. Not just for that, China is a big competitor at the world stage. So it's perfectly within their interests to have people frothing at the mouth about China for everything, just like China wants to put the blame on someone else (see the foreign affairs minister trying to pin it on the US). And they're not at all afraid to throw Asians under the bus in the process. I don't know if it's happening in Australia yet, maybe not because you haven't been hit as hard yet, but it's kind of dangerous to be Asian right now in many places. Like, lots of people are getting physically assaulted. It doesn't matter if you hate the CCP, it doesn't even matter if you aren't Chinese, as long as you look Asian you'll get shifty looks at best, assaulted at worse. It's common in Italy, I'm hearing it is becoming common in the US too, and it looks like some people are heading that way here too. Why? Because people are ready to lap up any and all propaganda against China without second consideration. And many people won't think "well, maybe the CCP is bad but that doesn't mean something about Chinese people". That's the intended effect too, can't have people being too sympathetic to The Enemy or its people. There is so much of it on DNS' favourite Reddit for example. People posted some pics of Italian healthcare workers' scarred faces after wearing masks for extremely long shifts and people were hailing them as heroes. When something similar happened with Chinese nurses, so many highly upvoted comments were like "fake", "CCP propaganda", "no way a mask can do that to your face", "mods remove this", etc. Another thread was made by an Asian American where other Asians posted about the abuse they have been getting lately. Thankfully most the comments there were not as creepy as that other thread, but even though the OP was very negative towards the CCP, there were still many people screaming "propaganda", "no chinese people are also at fault", "fake", etc.
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

*

Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #107 on: March 26, 2020, 05:02:56 PM »
While dumb and dumber  ( DNS & Pez ) debate irrelevant views on whether China sanitized their data  ( Spoiler Alert: They did ).  Neither has any clue about how to model the death rate.

There is more than enough data from Spain, Italy and USA,  of course you can argue that demographics will skew the Italian data,  just as a broken health system will skew the USA data,  but why not
take all the remaining data from the rest of the world,  and see how the models stack up against that.

BTW:  USA is now ahead of China on confirmed cases.  That was a day earlier than I thought.
I'm sorry, what are you trying to say again? You never made any claim as to what it's gonna be, I said I believe it's gonna end up being 1-4%, but it only started recently so it's hard to say. Right now Italy's healthcare system is way more broken than America's, because it has been overwhelmed. Spain's too, they have people lying on the floor waiting to get them into a ventilator. That will probably happen eventually in the US too, but it hasn't yet because it's early and it's gonna be a few days before the cases and the people who need hospitalization compared to the population are as high as in Italy and Spain. So far the US has more confirmed cases than Italy but about 7 times less deaths. I imagine it will change eventually, but it's still early to say for sure where it will sit.
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

*

Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #108 on: March 26, 2020, 05:26:07 PM »
He thinks china is a shitty country and the numbers are rubbish.
But he just HAS to opposit everything I say, so he is now pretending that china is trustworthy.
I don't think the numbers are rubbish. I think the numbers are probably fine and perfectly realistic, and your posts are rubbish.

Quote
The disease of disinformation first broke out in Wuhan. Its most prominent victim is a Wuhan doctor, Li Wenliang, who first posted an alert about a mysterious illness to a group chat of medical colleagues in late December. Accused of spreading rumors, he was summoned by health authorities in the middle of the night and forced to confess to making “false comments.” His warning went unheeded, and by early February he was dead from the virus.

As the epidemic began to take hold, Wuhan became a jarring tale of two different stories: a sanitized, government-approved version of events—and a very different reality on the ground. Private citizens posted cellphone videos as the quarantine was being imposed through brute force: neighbors and passersby being dragged kicking and screaming down corridors and into vans, or of workers hammering boards over the doors of apartment buildings. Meanwhile, state-controlled media posted a steady stream of cheery snippets showing what were allegedly virus patients, dancing beside their hospital beds, and happy health care workers shaving their hair to promote hygiene.

It got worse from there. At least three Chinese citizen journalists reporting on the virus have disappeared into detention, their whereabouts unknown. One, a former Chinese government television journalist, filmed his own arrest; his video has now been seen by more than 375,000 viewers on YouTube (though likely censored inside China). After criticizing Chinese President Xi Jinping’s response to the virus, the essayist and activist Xu Zhiyong is being held in secret detention and faces a potential 15-year prison sentence for “subversion.”




But don't worry. China is good. They would NEVER lie about their numbers. It is all just fake news.

Nice quote from God knows where. Oh wait, I found where it's from, it's from Foreign Policy, a mostly clintonite neocon magazine which also blames Iran in the same article and writes other articles about how COVID will make Islamic extremism more dangerous, and how Syria will take revenge on the west by spreading COVID or something.

Quote
China and Iran stand out for muzzling doctors who tried to warn about the coronavirus, and for downplaying the number of cases and deaths as the epidemic progressed.

Hmm, interesting how the two baddest, most evilest countries in the world are AGAIN standing out as the most baddest, most evilest countries in the world regarding COVID! But where is Russia?

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Russia, whose government has weaponized disinformation at home and abroad, is up to its usual antics of spreading conspiracy theories about the origin of the virus

Oh, there is Russia!

What's new is that the US is apparently untrustworthy too:

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U.S. President Donald Trump’s public downplaying of the outbreak—and his administration’s muzzling of scientists, attacks on journalists, and lashing out at critics—have slowed and obstructed the U.S. response to the coronavirus, and risk undermining efforts to control the virus as it spreads.

But only because the evil Chinese used mind control, or Russians, or something:

Quote
What’s new and deeply disturbing is that the virus of disinformation has infected the highest levels of a Western government like the United States’.

Oh well, no more data from the US I guess! Damn you China!

Amazing coincidence, you got all the usual suspects! China, Iran, Russia, and foreign mind control infecting good Western countries and making them bad! Come read your article about how the intelligence community warned the US for that and people didn't listen (yes, that article is there too)! We should put more faith in the CIA and less faith in evil China, Iran, and Russia! This is not suspicious in the slightest!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 05:29:01 PM by Pezevenk »
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
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Shifter

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #109 on: March 26, 2020, 05:39:20 PM »
The way people have been treating those of Asian ethnicity is disgusting and I don't condone it at all. There is a difference between hating a government and hating/blaming an entire race for the sins of the government. I hate Trump for a plethora of reasons - doesn't mean I hate the yanks (just poke fun at them :))

The CCP you can guarantee did not give/sell those masks etc out of benevolence. The CCP actually instructed a Chinese company here to ship out millions of PPE stock out of Australia and guess who is in dire straits now in a shortage? Australia.

Maybe if we're lucky we can buy it back lol

All countries governments lie. Including Australia. We had such a ridiculously strict protocol for testing that many people you can near guarantee had it, were not tested.

And our government has the hide to defend letting a cruise ship dock and its thousands of passengers disembark while KNOWING covid-19 was on board. They even tested some very suspicious circumstance people but allowed them to leave while waiting for the result.

If not for that ONE incidence, Australia would be sitting pretty (next to no community transmissions, just overseas returns). Now we have hundreds. Which will turn to thousands. A million people lost their jobs but do you think the Health Officer in charge lost her job? Nope. Just political spin and blame game

I don't trust governments. Not my own and certainly not the CCP.

Ideologically, there is next to NO difference between the CCP and the DPRK. The only difference is that China saw profit in doing business with the West.

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Pezevenk

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #110 on: March 26, 2020, 06:03:18 PM »
The way people have been treating those of Asian ethnicity is disgusting and I don't condone it at all. There is a difference between hating a government and hating/blaming an entire race for the sins of the government. I hate Trump for a plethora of reasons - doesn't mean I hate the yanks (just poke fun at them :))

The CCP you can guarantee did not give/sell those masks etc out of benevolence. The CCP actually instructed a Chinese company here to ship out millions of PPE stock out of Australia and guess who is in dire straits now in a shortage? Australia.

Maybe if we're lucky we can buy it back lol

All countries governments lie. Including Australia. We had such a ridiculously strict protocol for testing that many people you can near guarantee had it, were not tested.

And our government has the hide to defend letting a cruise ship dock and its thousands of passengers disembark while KNOWING covid-19 was on board. They even tested some very suspicious circumstance people but allowed them to leave while waiting for the result.

If not for that ONE incidence, Australia would be sitting pretty (next to no community transmissions, just overseas returns). Now we have hundreds. Which will turn to thousands. A million people lost their jobs but do you think the Health Officer in charge lost her job? Nope. Just political spin and blame game

I don't trust governments. Not my own and certainly not the CCP.

Ideologically, there is next to NO difference between the CCP and the DPRK. The only difference is that China saw profit in doing business with the West.

I'm sure they didn't do it out of benevolence. But at least they did it, and not just PPE, ventilators, specialist years. They're probably doing it to improve their image, and I'm sure Germany is pissed at them after they just said "nope, get screwed world, we got ours!". I mean, as I understand it, the Chinese companies actually bought these masks, and it looks like you can probably buy them back. We can't buy shit from Germany. EU partners my ass. 
It is not a scientific fact, it is a scientific fuck!
-Intikam

Who wants to be a firefly and who wants to be a blue whale?
-Sceptimatic

Please do not jizz to win an argument.
-Crutonius

Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from.
-Inty (again)

*

Space Cowgirl

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2020, 06:06:47 PM »
What are you guys even arguing about?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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JerkFace

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #112 on: March 26, 2020, 11:36:30 PM »
What are you guys even arguing about?

Pez gets his rocks off by disagreeing with everybody about everything,  you can even trick him into arguing with himself,  just switch to his point of view about anything and he'll jump right in and argue against himself.  Good fun,  in a sadistic sort of way. 

DNS is just an arrogant twit that exemplifies Dunning Kruger writ large.  He thinks he knows everything,  when the reality is quite different.  Give him a few years and he'll realize how little he actually knows. 





Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Shifter

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #113 on: March 27, 2020, 12:01:47 AM »
Pez gets his rocks off by disagreeing with everybody about everything,  you can even trick him into arguing with himself,  just switch to his point of view about anything and he'll jump right in and argue against himself.  Good fun,  in a sadistic sort of way. 

Hahaha! This.

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #114 on: March 27, 2020, 01:40:17 AM »
What are you guys even arguing about?
We are mostly arguing because we're stuck at home and bored  ;D ;)

Quote
I'm sure they didn't do it out of benevolence. But at least they did it, and not just PPE, ventilators, specialist years. They're probably doing it to improve their image, and I'm sure Germany is pissed at them after they just said "nope, get screwed world, we got ours!". I mean, as I understand it, the Chinese companies actually bought these masks, and it looks like you can probably buy them back. We can't buy shit from Germany. EU partners my ass.
I read that a large chinese company sold 700 000 igg/igm quicktests to spain and apparently the sensitivity is only 30%, so they miss 70% of cases.

Quote
Pez gets his rocks off by disagreeing with everybody about everything,  you can even trick him into arguing with himself,  just switch to his point of view about anything and he'll jump right in and argue against himself.  Good fun,  in a sadistic sort of way.
Yes that's really funny, I actually just did that a few posts ago (first he claims that everything shitty the chiense government does, wouldn't influence the credibility of their numbers. Then I post an article and he checks out the newspaper, using all the other articles on there to 'prove' that my article can't be crediblel. Lol!)

Quote
DNS is just an arrogant twit that exemplifies Dunning Kruger writ large.  He thinks he knows everything,  when the reality is quite different.  Give him a few years and he'll realize how little he actually knows.
This is true except for the fact that so far I have never been proven to be wrong. Ever.
But I can understand that it is hard for you to accept that someone is way, way smarter  8)
Best and most up to date information about coronavirus: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=85245.0

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #115 on: March 27, 2020, 02:16:52 AM »
For the greek that thinks recoveries in italy are not being monitored except for the patients in a hospital:
"the one positive sent home are constantly being monitored here, in the north a lot of doctors are going home to home for daily checkups and med administration"


Best and most up to date information about coronavirus: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=85245.0

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JerkFace

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #116 on: March 27, 2020, 04:58:53 AM »
Time for a spot check on CFR.     For those playing along at home,  remember that CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered)

USA    CFR = 1300/2053  = 63%
ITALY  CFR = 8215/18576 = 44%

So the USA is tracking higher than Italy

Globally  CFR = 24871/153,525  = 16%

But, it's early days yet, and the worst is yet to come in the USA.   I wouldn't bet on the USA CFR being lower than Italy.  Not yet anyway.

Data from Johns Hopkins,  https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Methodology for simple estimating CFR of an emerging infectious disease  https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/162/5/479/82647
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 05:03:29 AM by JerkFace »
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #117 on: March 27, 2020, 05:20:12 AM »
Time for a spot check on CFR.     For those playing along at home,  remember that CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered)

USA    CFR = 1300/2053  = 63%
ITALY  CFR = 8215/18576 = 44%

So the USA is tracking higher than Italy

Globally  CFR = 24871/153,525  = 16%

But, it's early days yet, and the worst is yet to come in the USA.   I wouldn't bet on the USA CFR being lower than Italy.  Not yet anyway.

Data from Johns Hopkins,  https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Methodology for simple estimating CFR of an emerging infectious disease  https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/162/5/479/82647

You are wrong - twice:
1) In epidemiology, a case fatality rate (CFR) — sometimes called case fatality risk — is the proportion of deaths from a certain disease compared to the total number of people diagnosed with the disease for a certain period of time. So it's not divided by deaths+recovered but divided by total cases. And that is (I have explained it multiple times already) why using this is bullshit.
2) 'murica apparently doesn't track the cases; so recovery data isn't accurate.


I think the method I provided is by far the best and most elaborate.
Best and most up to date information about coronavirus: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=85245.0

Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #118 on: March 27, 2020, 05:29:46 AM »
Newest scientific information say that the time between hospital admission -> death is 8.5 days.
Updated numbers regarding the lethality in patients diagnosed with sars cov 2 according to the newest epidemiologic informations are:
US: 16%
Italy: 23%
Spain: 35%

Of course there are still many possible errors.

Titel has been adjusted to fit the newest information.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 04:27:39 PM by Definitely Not Swedish »
Best and most up to date information about coronavirus: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=85245.0

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JerkFace

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Re: Is the covid-19 lethality in italy nearly 50%?!
« Reply #119 on: March 27, 2020, 05:30:43 AM »
Time for a spot check on CFR.     For those playing along at home,  remember that CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered)

USA    CFR = 1300/2053  = 63%
ITALY  CFR = 8215/18576 = 44%

So the USA is tracking higher than Italy

Globally  CFR = 24871/153,525  = 16%

But, it's early days yet, and the worst is yet to come in the USA.   I wouldn't bet on the USA CFR being lower than Italy.  Not yet anyway.

Data from Johns Hopkins,  https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

Methodology for simple estimating CFR of an emerging infectious disease  https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/162/5/479/82647

You are wrong - twice:
1) In epidemiology, a case fatality rate (CFR) — sometimes called case fatality risk — is the proportion of deaths from a certain disease compared to the total number of people diagnosed with the disease for a certain period of time. So it's not divided by deaths+recovered but divided by total cases. And that is (I have explained it multiple times already) why using this is bullshit.
2) 'murica apparently doesn't track the cases; so recovery data isn't accurate.


I think the method I provided is by far the best and most elaborate.

You should really learn to read..    I linked to the methodology I used.

STATISTICAL METHODS FOR ESTIMATING THE CASE FATALITY RATIO
Simple estimators
Two simple estimators can be obtained for the case fatality ratio from aggregate case reports. If, at any given time point s, D(s), R(s), and C(s) denote the cumulative number of deaths, recoveries, and cases, respectively, then these estimators are
e1(s)=D(s)/C(s),
e2(s)=D(s)/{D(s)+R(s)}.
The first estimator ignores the censoring that arises when patients remain ill in the hospital. The second implicitly assumes that the case fatality ratio for those who remain in the hospital will be similar to that for those whose outcome is known. Furthermore, for the second estimator to work reasonably well, the hazards of death and recovery at any time t measured from admission to the hospital, conditional on an event occurring at time t, should be proportional. Binomial confidence intervals for the underlying probability of death can be calculated from either estimate by using exact methods or a normal approximation, as appropriate.


I'm using the second estimator  e2(s)=D(s)/{D(s)+R(s)}.

Try to keep up.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.