Explain this to me.........

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Stash

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #120 on: March 10, 2020, 11:40:57 AM »
I am not a hypocrite:

I will grant you I haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims...
Yet you demand that we to the math for a CGI version of what RET claims.

This is the Flat Earth Society.

Why should we do the math and create a CGI RE model if you aren't willing to do the math and create a CGI  FE model?

Could it be that FE models are impossible?
I doubt it, since the earth is flat.

And that is all we are concerned with, in the end.

I just like pointing out the fact there is no CGI moving image of what the heliocentrist alchemists claim to be reality, when all you need to do is use the math you hold so dear...

Think of the "billions and billions," to be made Opus!!!

Get on it! QUICK!!!

Done. Billions have been made.

Check out the American Museum of Natural History - Hayden Planetarium ‘Digital Universe'

Download:

https://www.openspaceproject.com/

You can render simulations like this :



Now, what do you have?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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markjo

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #121 on: March 10, 2020, 12:19:07 PM »
I bet that he won't get past this part before he stop reading and cries "FAKE!!"
Funded in part by NASA...
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #122 on: March 10, 2020, 12:40:11 PM »
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If there was, you could model the real deal utilizing Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.

So referring back to the link I provided earlier, and to the contents of the 'about' link where it states

Quote
The astronomy.js library by Don Cross is used to compute approximate position of the Solar System objects given their keplerian elements.

How does this not meet with your demands of a model of the 'real deal' utilizing Kepler math?
Post an animated gif.

Your ability/inability to do so will answer your question.

Here’s a gif of calculated orbits. Not just the planets and moons, but also 18000 asteroids.



https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7194

Good enough for you?
Is the sun moving there, sparky?

Nope?

Try again, hipster doofus...

Moving relative to what?  The virtual “camera” position?  No.  So what?

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Well that’s just a stupid requirement.  The movement of the solar system through the galaxy won’t affect the orbits by any remotely detectable amount.  Showing it in an animation serves no purpose other than making it harder to see the orbits that have been calculated.

Probably why it’s hard to find one.  Why would anyone waste their time on it?
Yeah, not only is it hard to find...it is...impossible...

So, yeah, hipster doofus...

No.  It would be very easy.  No one bothers because such an animation serves no purpose.

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Even though you can find plenty of fakes that show the sun moving with planets circling about, you can't find the real one...because the MATH IS FAKE!!!

Toodle pip alchemists...

The “fakes” are just illustrations to roughly show the movement.  What’s the point in carefully calculating orbits if you can’t see them because the camera is swooping around all over the place?

So is the sole justification for your argument that “the maths is fake” based on your childish demands for an animation that looks exactly the way you want. 

Pathetic.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #123 on: March 10, 2020, 01:11:27 PM »
because the MATH IS FAKE!!!
Again, PROVE IT!
So far that is just your pathetic baseless assertion.

If you want to claim it is fake or doesn't work then prove it.

Until then you are just complaining that no one has provided you a specific CGI model you want, which they are under no obligation to provide to you and which you have no made effort to find or make yourself.
That in no way indicates the math is fake.

You have a shown that you are completely unwilling to accept anything provided to you, so why should anyone bother wasting their time making something for you just for you to reject it?

You are the alchemist here.
You cling to pure fantasy and reject reality, all because people haven't made a CGI model with no practical value.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #124 on: March 10, 2020, 01:14:44 PM »
I am not a hypocrite:

I will grant you I haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims...
Yet you demand that we to the math for a CGI version of what RET claims.

This is the Flat Earth Society.

Why should we do the math and create a CGI RE model if you aren't willing to do the math and create a CGI  FE model?

Could it be that FE models are impossible?
I doubt it, since the earth is flat.

And that is all we are concerned with, in the end.

I just like pointing out the fact there is no CGI moving image of what the heliocentrist alchemists claim to be reality, when all you need to do is use the math you hold so dear...

Think of the "billions and billions," to be made Opus!!!

Get on it! QUICK!!!

One
Flat earth map?
Model of the sun?
Lets see it.

Two
How do you financially value such a cgi rendering of the RE galaxy?

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #125 on: March 10, 2020, 01:58:54 PM »
Time to put up or shut up Mr. Totallackey.
Yet. all you can do is drone on and on about how real mathematical constructs of what you claim to be reality that could be so easily rendered in a CGI ... are not necessary.
No, they are no necessary in the slightest and you have given no reason that they should be.
This is "The Flat Earth Society" and how the Solar System might move in the Galaxy is totally irrelevant.
Even whether the Earth rotates and orbits the Sun (the Heliocentric Solar System) or the Globe Earth is stationary is of little relevance to the shape of the Earth.

Quote from: totallackey
You are one big hypocrite rab.
No, Mr. Totallackey, I'm no hypocrite I've shown you detailed simulations of the Solar System now it's your turn!

So, either you post a working flat Earth as requested or YOU the big hypocrite.

The wider cosmos has virtually nothing to do with what the way the Solar System behaves and is totally irrelevant to the shape of the Earth.

Here I'll repeat it for you:
Quote
Please show a simulation on your flat Earth model using whatever laws of physics that you accept.
You must specify just what these laws of physics that you accept are.

Your simulation should show at least the detailed movement of the Sun, Moon and planets and predict:
Sunrise and sunset times and directions at any place requested.
The phases of the Moon and the times the Moon rises and sets.

If you have a good flat-Earth model that should be easy.

So, it's long past time for YOU put up or shut up Mr. Totallackey.

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #126 on: March 10, 2020, 02:15:57 PM »
When are you going to do the math and show us a CGI simulation of your favorite FE model? 

You don't want to be a hypocrite, do you?
I am not a hypocrite:
I will grant you I haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims...
Incorrect, you are a hypocrite of the worst kind! You demand that others do what you cannot do yourself.

You even admit that "haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims".

You first claim that you are "not a hypocrite" admit that you are!

This is the Flat Earth Society and here you are admitting that YOU don't know how the flat Earth works and explains all that we can see.
Run away and enrol in Flat Earthism 101 at your favourite Flat Earth Indoctrination College or at the FECU Entrance Exam, Flat Earth Community University, FECU.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #127 on: March 10, 2020, 03:48:40 PM »

Run away and enrol in Flat Earthism 101 at your favourite Flat Earth Indoctrination College or at the FECU Entrance Exam, Flat Earth Community University, FECU.

Clarification needed on question 1-

Is actor David Schwimmer Illuminati?  Or is his character in Friends Illuminati?  Or do they mean the DJ/producer Ross from Friends?

No idea about the actor, but the character is a dick.  The DJ seems nice though.

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #128 on: March 10, 2020, 05:10:50 PM »

Run away and enrol in Flat Earthism 101 at your favourite Flat Earth Indoctrination College or at the FECU Entrance Exam, Flat Earth Community University, FECU.

Clarification needed on question 1-

Is actor David Schwimmer Illuminati?  Or is his character in Friends Illuminati?  Or do they mean the DJ/producer Ross from Friends?

No idea about the actor, but the character is a dick.  The DJ seems nice though.
I've no idea. I answered that Mark Sargent and Steve were the Illuminati and was failed and thrown out.
So I'm forced to be a Real Earth Believer because that's much easier to debate - it has all the facts on its side.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #129 on: March 11, 2020, 02:26:49 AM »
Mr Totallackey has obviously got his mind made up about what he believes to be true and nothing will change that. That is fine since everyone is entitled to their opinion.

As long as he accepts that not everyone here shares his point of view and several others here have demonstrated and evidenced their reasons for having their difference of opinion.  That is where FE people seem to fall... well flat. Because while they can claim whatever they wish it seems they cannot provide any real evidence that backs up their claims.

Otherwise surely we would all be seeing the Earth as flat, we would be buying flat trays rather than globes of the Earth and sea and air travel times would all be a lot different to what they are. And if the Earth is flat and there are no such things as satellites as (some) flat Earthers maintain then how the heck does GPS work?

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #130 on: March 11, 2020, 02:49:06 AM »
Mr Totallackey has obviously got his mind made up about what he believes to be true and nothing will change that. That is fine since everyone is entitled to their opinion.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion".
What makes totallackey a hypocritical, however, is his demand that we show a demonstration of something totally irrelevant to either the shape of the Earth or whether it rotates or not,
yet he refuses to show a similar demonstration of his Earth "model" so that we might evaluate it.

?

totallackey

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #131 on: March 11, 2020, 03:32:11 AM »
Mr Totallackey has obviously got his mind made up about what he believes to be true and nothing will change that. That is fine since everyone is entitled to their opinion.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion".
What makes totallackey a hypocritical, however, is his demand that we show a demonstration of something totally irrelevant to either the shape of the Earth or whether it rotates or not,
yet he refuses to show a similar demonstration of his Earth "model" so that we might evaluate it.
Alchemists huddling, wondering how they can deny what they see in front of their eyes everyday, ascribing something beyond 6 miles to fictional fantasy about a supposed curve.

Needing a model of flat when reality of flat is in front of them each and everyday.

"THE MATH IS RIGHT AND ADDS UP, AND YES, WE KNOW WHEN IT IS ENTERED TO RENDER AN OUTPUT, THE WHOLE THING BLOWS UP!", so...

it isn't necessary...

Toodle pip alchemists...

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #132 on: March 11, 2020, 04:35:43 AM »
Alchemists huddling, wondering how they can deny what they see in front of their eyes everyday
Yep, coming up with pathetic excuses like "THE MATH IS FAKE" "IT CAN'T WORK" and so on, without actually providing any evidence or showing a problem with any evidence provided against their beliefs.
You FE alchemists really need to up your game.

There is literally nothing that indicates Earth is flat.

If you don't think a model is necessary for your fantasy then there is absolutely no reason for you to think a model is needed for the reality of a round Earth. So why the extremely dishonest double standard?

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rabinoz

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  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #133 on: March 11, 2020, 05:27:38 AM »
Mr Totallackey has obviously got his mind made up about what he believes to be true and nothing will change that. That is fine since everyone is entitled to their opinion.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion".
What makes totallackey a hypocritical, however, is his demand that we show a demonstration of something totally irrelevant to either the shape of the Earth or whether it rotates or not,
yet he refuses to show a similar demonstration of his Earth "model" so that we might evaluate it.
Alchemists huddling, wondering how they can deny what they see in front of their eyes everyday, ascribing something beyond 6 miles to fictional fantasy about a supposed curve.
Please keep it civil, Mr Totallackey, your insults, insinuations and accusations don't impress anybody and only indicate how uncertain you are of you own position!

No one, other that you flat Earthers is huddling anywhere.
And I don't need to deny anything that I see in front of my eyes everyday! Everything I see fits perfectly with the Earth's being a Globe!

Please explain just how it is possible for your Sun, presumably circling 3000 miles above the Earth, to rise from behind the horizon as in the following video:

Also if the ocean is flat please explain what is hiding the sun as it sets in these photos of mine:

Sunset Karumba on Aug 8, 2007 at 6:25:02 PM
       
Sunset Karumba on Aug 8, 2007 at 6:25:29 PM
       
Sunset Karumba on Aug 8, 2007 at 6:25:57 PM
The Sunrise video is from the Black Sea, the Sunset photos are from North Queensland.

And, if the ocean is flat, please explain how all of Bathurst Lighthouse can be seen from 100 ft above sea-level in the left screenshot of the linked video but much is hidden when only 6 to 8 ft above sea-level:
And please explain how we can see all of the near ship, the EPIC, but the farther ship, the CONTI LYON, has all the hull hidden? Something is sure hiding most of the second ship!
These two photos are from a video of two large cargo ships off the coast near Wollongong, NSW and taken from about 10 m above sea-level.
The nearer ship is all visible but the farther ship's containers are is still very visible but most of the ship is hidden behind something.
And here we have a huge bulk ore carrier quite visible:
         And a container vessel with the hull hidden behind something:
And the maker of the video those screenshots came from wrote:
Quote from: MCtheEmcee1


MCtheEmcee1 Published on Mar 21, 2018

Cargo ship with the entire hull below the horizon. Only the containers are visible.
The background ship called CONTI LYON, and at SEVEN pm,  that ship was at [-34.44074, 151.18053].
The foreground ship - EPIC - was moored at [-34.3693, 151.0004].
The camera location was 34.347°S 150.921°E and 10m above sea-level on Collins Rock, in the suburb of Woonona NSW.
So the nearer ship, the EPIC, was 16.7 km from the camera and the farther ship, the container ship was 26.0 km from the camera. [/size]

Quote from: totallackey
Needing a model of flat when reality of flat is in front of them each and everyday.
Totally incorrect Mr Totallackey! You sure need a model because a flat Earth certainly does not fit with reality.
None of these photos and videos would be possible on a flat Earth with the Sun circling some 3000 miles overhead.

If you disagree, please explain:
  • how your Sun, some 3000 miles above the Earth can set behind the horizon and
  • how a flat ocean can hide the Sun, most of an island and lighthouse and most of a huge container ship.
Don't worry there's plenty more evidence that a flat Earth can never fit the reality that we see around us.

You need to do a lot better than the nothing that you've provided so far!

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markjo

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #134 on: March 11, 2020, 06:22:21 AM »
Mr Totallackey has obviously got his mind made up about what he believes to be true and nothing will change that. That is fine since everyone is entitled to their opinion.
He's entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #135 on: March 11, 2020, 06:30:10 AM »
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Needing a model of flat when reality of flat is in front of them each and everyday.

Is that really the best you can come up with? Why do you think there is a sharply defined horizon all around you? Do you really think it would be like that if the Earth was flat? 

Yes the horizon is flat. I you had a clear view of the horizon through 360 degrees and you are just a few tens or hundred of metres up from the ground then the horizon will look flat because it is an equal distance from you in all directions and because the rate of curvature of the surface (which gives us the horizon in the first place) is the same. So it will look flat.

You are seeing such a small fraction of the surface area that any real perception of curvature is lost to the naked eye.

However because you believe the Earth is flat, you conclude that because the Earth looks flat to you, that can only mean that it is flat.  You see what you want to believe so no further evidence needed. Conformation bias in action.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 08:36:21 AM by Solarwind »

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #136 on: March 11, 2020, 08:01:16 AM »
Lackless will never give up any more info beyond "looks flat".

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #137 on: March 11, 2020, 08:34:49 AM »
Lackless by nature as well as by name then.

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rabinoz

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  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #138 on: March 11, 2020, 03:17:52 PM »
Lackless will never give up any more info beyond "looks flat".
Quote
Needing a model of flat when reality of flat is in front of them each and everyday.

Is that really the best you can come up with? Why do you think there is a sharply defined horizon all around you? Do you really think it would be like that if the Earth was flat? 

Yes, the horizon is flat. If you had a clear view of the horizon through 360 degrees and you are just a few tens or hundred of metres up from the ground then the horizon will look flat because it is an equal distance from you in all directions and because the rate of curvature of the surface (which gives us the horizon in the first place) is the same. So it will look flat.


A near sharp flat horizon is evidence that the ocean is curved, like this:


That photo was taken from about 2 m above sea-level and I know that horizon is close because:
  • It is quite sharp. If it were far away there would be the bluish haze from the air visible.
  • There is a navigation beacon, 2.6 km away, that is right on the horizon when the camera is 50 cm above the water

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Stash

  • 4032
Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #139 on: March 11, 2020, 04:45:59 PM »
Mr Totallackey has obviously got his mind made up about what he believes to be true and nothing will change that. That is fine since everyone is entitled to their opinion.
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion".
What makes totallackey a hypocritical, however, is his demand that we show a demonstration of something totally irrelevant to either the shape of the Earth or whether it rotates or not,
yet he refuses to show a similar demonstration of his Earth "model" so that we might evaluate it.
Alchemists huddling, wondering how they can deny what they see in front of their eyes everyday, ascribing something beyond 6 miles to fictional fantasy about a supposed curve.

Needing a model of flat when reality of flat is in front of them each and everyday.

"THE MATH IS RIGHT AND ADDS UP, AND YES, WE KNOW WHEN IT IS ENTERED TO RENDER AN OUTPUT, THE WHOLE THING BLOWS UP!", so...

it isn't necessary...

Toodle pip alchemists...

Listen, when, if, ever you actually have a point you can back up with evidence of any sort that would be a landmark moment. Because to date, you have never provided anything except for your personal brand of banal vitriol. Why is that?

What is the point you're trying to make? RE doesn't have a CGI model of the COSMOS and therefore all of its maths, science, explorations, calculations, etc, are bunk? Are you high? Can you not navigate your toaster oven because you don't have a CGI rendering as to how it fits into your city block? Give me a hit of whatever you're smoking, because it must me solid.

Figure out your own shit, your planar non-planet. How it works. Maybe throw in how a sunset works just for measure. In the mean time, we're tracking a gazillion things in space that could harm us while you're futzy around begging for math visualized that you will never understand.

'Toodle pip', I don't know what that means. It sounds a little gay, not that there's anything wrong with that. Just sayin'.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2020, 01:14:48 AM »
I don't think you will ever get any real evidence from flat Earthers because lets face it there is none that exists that they can provide. Their 'evidence' is their beliefs and that's as far as it can go. In view of the way this zetecist concept goes that is good enough so they don't consider that they need to justify their beliefs any more than that.

Secretly they know that so to make themselves feel better they just rely on asking for evidence about RE that they know also doesn't exist - such as the CGI model of the entire Universe. Then they use that to defend their opinions. It remains I think that there is a lot more to prove or evidence on the FE side than there is on RE. At least we have all agreed on a single model and we all sing from the same sheet.

RE evidence is based on real data from real observations and beyond that computer predictions that are based or extrapolated from that data.  FE evidence is based on nothing but belief and ideology. That to me is the difference.



« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 03:21:21 AM by Solarwind »

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Macarios

  • 1925
Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #141 on: March 20, 2020, 02:39:18 PM »
Hundreds of thousands of geodesists all over the world constantly measure the Earth.
They measure, test, check and re-check on each other, and they constantly improve their accuracy.
They know the shape of the Earth very well.

Not knowing what they do and how gives no one the right to claim that the don't do it.
They don't hide it, anyone can ask and learn.

Quote
WHAT IS THE GLOBAL PRECISE GEODETIC INFRASTRUCTURE?

Geodesy is the science of measuring and understanding three fundamental parameters of the Earth
its shape,
rotation and orientation,
and gravity field
and their change over time.
These parameters carry fundamental information about the planet and its workings.
Today this is no longer a three-dimensional problem, but really a four-dimensional
problem in which temporal changes in these quantities are tracked. Geodesists do
this using an infrastructure based on precisely located positions of a set of reference
(“fiducial”) points on the Earth’s surface. Using these reference points, geodesists
create a terrestrial reference system (or spatial reference system)—a common
coordinate framework for which scientists have determined, by calculation, all
the reference points’ exact coordinates at a given time. The primary realization of
the global spatial reference system is the International Terrestrial Reference Frame (ITRF).
The ITRF and other terrestrial reference frames are established by equipping selected
reference points with some combination of radio telescopes, laser ranging systems,
Global Navigational Satellite Systems receivers (GNSS, a general term for systems like
the Global Positioning System, or GPS) and radio beacons, and sometimes gravimeters.
In addition, data from observations of Earth-orbiting satellites, the moon, and distant
extragalactic objects known as quasars are incorporated. This combination of ground-based
instruments and satellites constitutes the precise, global geodetic infrastructure.
(from: https://www.nap.edu/read/12954/chapter/3#12)
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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Mikey T.

  • 2418
Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #142 on: March 24, 2020, 01:45:02 PM »


Dr. Richard Feynman dumbs down the scientific method fairly well here, and in consequence shows how not experimenting or not having any way to test the guesses made is worthless.  Educated guess, determine the consequences, test, if not wrong yet you are good for now.