Explain this to me.........

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2020, 08:06:23 AM »
Quote
Certainly not you, as you have zero interest in gaining a CGI depiction of the solar system in full motion using Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.

Why are you so obsessed with a CGI depiction of the solar sytem?  I would have thought that even you would realise that using CGI you can create pretty much anything you want.
Yep.

You sure can.

You can even utilize it for...wait for it...

MATHEMATICAL CONSTRUCTS TO RENDER VISUAL IMAGES ON A COMPUTER MONITOR!!!
Hell you can even create a film showing dinosaurs running around and make it seem real.  The film Avatar was made entirely using CGI.  I'm sure you could even create a flat Earth using CGI but what would that prove? 

In reality there ain't no dinosaurs running around in the 21st century and there certainly isn't a flat Earth either.
Yeah, there certainly is no heliocentric solar system either.

If there was, you could model the real deal utilizing Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.

But you can't...nobody can.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 08:27:31 AM by totallackey »

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2020, 11:53:59 AM »
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If there was, you could model the real deal utilizing Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.

So referring back to the link I provided earlier, and to the contents of the 'about' link where it states

Quote
The astronomy.js library by Don Cross is used to compute approximate position of the Solar System objects given their keplerian elements.

How does this not meet with your demands of a model of the 'real deal' utilizing Kepler math?

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JackBlack

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2020, 12:50:23 PM »
Certainly not you, as you have zero interest in gaining a CGI depiction of the solar system in full motion using Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.
What bearing does a CGI model have on the truth?

If you think having a CGI model like that is required for truth, then why aren't you out making one?

I think we have established who is in blind belief here.
Yes, you.
You who blindly believes that the math simply doesn't work, even though you provide absolutely nothing to demonstrate that it doesn't.
You blindly believe that the RE model is wrong, even though you have absolutely nothing to substantiate that and no better alternative.

Nope.

Toodle pip, alchemist.
Don't lie about what I say.
Again, you are the one claiming the math doesn't work. You are the one claiming that models do not exist, even though some models have been provided to you.

You are the "alchemist" here. You are the one spouting unsubstantiated nonsense, and not even attempting to justify it.

Again, if you are so certain that the math doesn't work, then prove it doesn't. If you can't, then admit you have no basis for that claim and have no idea if the math works or not.

People not making you a model exactly how you want it is not proof the math doesn't work.

So do you have this proof? Or just blind faith with baseless assertions?

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2020, 01:54:48 PM »
All this coming from someone who once claimed that the strongest evidence to him for believing in a flat Earth is by looking out of the window!

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2020, 02:50:07 PM »
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Nobody gives two freaking !@#$ about what you post here...

O I wouldn't say that..  there are some people here who are actually interested in what is real and true.
Mainly me.

Certainly not you, as you have zero interest in gaining a CGI depiction of the solar system in full motion using Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.
If you have such an "interest in gaining a CGI depiction of the solar system in full motion using Newton/Kepler/Einstein math" you do it!

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2020, 03:08:08 PM »
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
BTW isn't it amazing how a question that was originally about how time zones relate to FE theory can get gradually transformed into slagging off match about whether or not the solar system is orbiting around the Galaxy effectively on its side?!?
Yeah, a topic that was originally derailed by a RE-adherent...as is typical here at the flatearthsociety...here
snipped
You might note that my post was in reply to John Davis! Do you suggest that I ignore John Davis?
Also certain activities of scientists make this hard; its is a well known practice to sometimes exclude data that disagrees with your premise, or to use clever curve fitting and number fudging to achieve the desired result. Einstein and Newton both come to mind, let alone the studies that show this is common practice.
You often make unsupported claims like this.
Would you please give examples with reliable references where "Einstein and Newton" made "use clever curve fitting and number fudging to achieve the desired result"?

These are well known facts. One related by a biographer of Newton, Richard Westfall, who said some of his work is "nothing short of deliberate fraud" and that "no one can manipulate the fudge factor quite so effectively as the master mathematician himself"
)  and the other by Einstien himself who said "So much the worse for the experiment"
And it is well known that so-called "well-known facts" often turn out to not be quite so factual.

Quote from: totallackey
and here...
snipped
That is the SAME post! Look Quote from: rabinoz on February 29, 2020, 12:22:23 PM and Quote from: rabinoz on February 29, 2020, 12:22:23 PM
Quote from: totallackey
<< snipped >>
Try again! De-railer extraordinaire!

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2020, 01:55:42 AM »
Quote
If there was, you could model the real deal utilizing Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.

So referring back to the link I provided earlier, and to the contents of the 'about' link where it states

Quote
The astronomy.js library by Don Cross is used to compute approximate position of the Solar System objects given their keplerian elements.

How does this not meet with your demands of a model of the 'real deal' utilizing Kepler math?
Post an animated gif.

Your ability/inability to do so will answer your question.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2020, 01:57:15 AM »
Quote
Nobody gives two freaking !@#$ about what you post here...

O I wouldn't say that..  there are some people here who are actually interested in what is real and true.
Mainly me.

Certainly not you, as you have zero interest in gaining a CGI depiction of the solar system in full motion using Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.
If you have such an "interest in gaining a CGI depiction of the solar system in full motion using Newton/Kepler/Einstein math" you do it!
Got a reference where I can start?

Nope.

Too bad...alchemist.

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2020, 02:22:59 AM »
If you have such an "interest in gaining a CGI depiction of the solar system in full motion using Newton/Kepler/Einstein math" you do it!
Got a reference where I can start?
That's your problem.

But I've shown you a freebie simulation of the Solar System and referred you to more professional ones.

But here's a little task for you.

Please show a simulation on your flat Earth model using whatever laws of physics that you accept.
You must specify just what these laws of physics that you accept are.

Your simulation should show at least the detailed movement of the Sun, Moon and planets and predict:
Sunrise and sunset times and directions at any place requested.
The phases of the Moon and the times the Moon rises and sets.

If you have a good flat-Earth model that should be easy.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2020, 06:47:44 AM »
Quote
If there was, you could model the real deal utilizing Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.

So referring back to the link I provided earlier, and to the contents of the 'about' link where it states

Quote
The astronomy.js library by Don Cross is used to compute approximate position of the Solar System objects given their keplerian elements.

How does this not meet with your demands of a model of the 'real deal' utilizing Kepler math?
Post an animated gif.

Your ability/inability to do so will answer your question.

Here’s a gif of calculated orbits. Not just the planets and moons, but also 18000 asteroids.



https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7194

Good enough for you?

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #100 on: March 06, 2020, 01:02:43 PM »
Good enough for you?
Not for totallackey! 
He wants it the show all of that moving through the Milky Way galaxy.
Then I guess he'll want it to include the Milky Way's movement through our local group, etc etc.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #101 on: March 06, 2020, 01:36:07 PM »
Because it cant be modelled it cant exist?

Show me a working model of the human brain how every cell interacts in a dynamic model.
Cant?
Then i believe that Lackless has no brain.

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #102 on: March 06, 2020, 01:44:23 PM »
Because it cant be modelled it cant exist?
It's worse than that!
Totallackey seems to think that if each and everyone one of us can't model it then the Heliocentric Solar System must be false.

Quote from: Themightykabool
Show me a working model of the human brain how every cell interacts in a dynamic model.
Cant?
Then i believe that Lackless has no brain.
That I'd believe but I'd be satisfied with a working model (or even simulation) of totallackey's flat Earth model that obeys whatever physic's laws he subscribes to - assuming he subscribes to any.

Totallackey's flat Earth model must explain, without unsupported hypotheses, the observations we can all make so easily.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #103 on: March 08, 2020, 01:49:37 PM »
Good enough for you?
Not for totallackey! 
He wants it the show all of that moving through the Milky Way galaxy.
Then I guess he'll want it to include the Milky Way's movement through our local group, etc etc.

Well that’s just a stupid requirement.  The movement of the solar system through the galaxy won’t affect the orbits by any remotely detectable amount.  Showing it in an animation serves no purpose other than making it harder to see the orbits that have been calculated.

Probably why it’s hard to find one.  Why would anyone waste their time on it?


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JackBlack

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #104 on: March 08, 2020, 01:54:08 PM »
Got a reference where I can start?
Nope.
You have already been provided with computer programs which use the laws you demand. I would say that is a good place to start.

Now enough about your desired for a particular CGI model.

Again, you claimed that the math doesn't work.
Where is your proof of that?

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #105 on: March 08, 2020, 02:01:27 PM »
Has anyone yet produced a CGI working model of a flat earth?  Of course not because there is no single flat Earth model which all flat Earthers agree on.

We have a single heliocentric model of the solar system where the Sun is at the centre and all the planets, comets, asteroids, dwarf planets, minor planets, natural satellites orbit around the most significant mass which is closest to them. Because it is a single, universally accepted model it is easy to illustrate and simulate.

So until flat Earth can come up with a similar, universally accepted model of their own and present it then they hardly have grounds to criticise anything else!

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #106 on: March 08, 2020, 02:44:32 PM »
Good enough for you?
Not for totallackey! 
He wants it the show all of that moving through the Milky Way galaxy.
Then I guess he'll want it to include the Milky Way's movement through our local group, etc etc.

Well that’s just a stupid requirement.  The movement of the solar system through the galaxy won’t affect the orbits by any remotely detectable amount.  Showing it in an animation serves no purpose other than making it harder to see the orbits that have been calculated.

Probably why it’s hard to find one.  Why would anyone waste their time on it?
But all totallackey is trying to do is to make "modern cosmology" look ridiculous even though he cannot make such a simulation of his flat Earth model - what model?

Personally I believe that we should concentrate on the shape of the Earth.
This is because there are no easy observations that prove that the Earth rotates, etc rather the all of the "heavens" (the rest of Universe) rotating about a stationary Earth.

The Heliocentric System was originally accepted because the observed motions of the planets (Mars in particular) did not readily conform to the old Ptolemaic system.
Tycho Brahe did propose a Geocentric Solar System that with slight modification does agree well with astronomical observations.
But stationary Earth in a rotating Solar System does not follow the ordinary physical laws like Newton's and so Kepler and Newton saw the end of Tycho Brahe's "compromise".

But all of these systems were for a spherical earth and there was little thought that the Earth could be flat back there.

The rest might be in the tl;dr category.

Ernst Mach proposed a completely relativistic system which Einstein called "Mach's Principle" and it proposed that even inertia (or acceleration) was relative.
So under Mach's Principle, the shape of a water surface in a rotating bucket could be regarded as due to the bucket rotating or the whole Universe rotating about the bucket.

Such a system, if valid, would make a geocentric Earth just as correct as a Heliocentric Solar System.
Einstein was attracted toward such a totally relativistic system but soon realised that he could not build that into his Theory of General Relativity.
Einstein's Pathway to General Relativity, John D. Norton.[/b][/url] and especially the section Relativity of Inertia ("Mach's Principle") go into this in detail.
Though Isaac Newton preceded Ernst Mach by almost 300 years, he considered many of the same thoughts.

So while absolute velocity cannot be measured, even under General Relativity, absolute acceleration (including rotation) can be measured.
Some, even now, question this but the consensus is that for all practical purposes the acceleration due to the rotation of the Earth can be and is being measured.

And there is one obvious result of this absolute acceleration due to rotation and the is the ellipticity of the Earth - it is an ellipsoid not a sphere and even Newton estimated roughly how out-of-round the Earth should be.
He overestimated it, possibly because he assumed the Earth was a uniform density fluid like water but the Earth density is far from uniform with its very dense metal core.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #107 on: March 10, 2020, 05:16:14 AM »
Quote
If there was, you could model the real deal utilizing Newton/Kepler/Einstein math.

So referring back to the link I provided earlier, and to the contents of the 'about' link where it states

Quote
The astronomy.js library by Don Cross is used to compute approximate position of the Solar System objects given their keplerian elements.

How does this not meet with your demands of a model of the 'real deal' utilizing Kepler math?
Post an animated gif.

Your ability/inability to do so will answer your question.

Here’s a gif of calculated orbits. Not just the planets and moons, but also 18000 asteroids.



https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=7194

Good enough for you?
Is the sun moving there, sparky?

Nope?

Try again, hipster doofus...
Well that’s just a stupid requirement.  The movement of the solar system through the galaxy won’t affect the orbits by any remotely detectable amount.  Showing it in an animation serves no purpose other than making it harder to see the orbits that have been calculated.

Probably why it’s hard to find one.  Why would anyone waste their time on it?
Yeah, not only is it hard to find...it is...impossible...

So, yeah, hipster doofus...

Even though you can find plenty of fakes that show the sun moving with planets circling about, you can't find the real one...because the MATH IS FAKE!!!

Toodle pip alchemists...

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #108 on: March 10, 2020, 05:26:47 AM »
Can you point us towards a similar working simulation of the solar system in action as flat Earthers believe it to be?

No...?  Ok Toodle Pip flat Earthers.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 05:28:43 AM by Solarwind »

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #109 on: March 10, 2020, 05:31:13 AM »
Can you point us towards a similar working simulation of the solar system in action as flat Earthers believe it to be?

No...?  Ok Toodle Pip flat Earthers.
There is no solar system...

The earth is the center of the universe.

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rabinoz

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #110 on: March 10, 2020, 05:39:44 AM »
Can you point us towards a similar working simulation of the solar system in action as flat Earthers believe it to be?

No...?  Ok Toodle Pip flat Earthers.
There is no solar system...

The earth is the center of the universe.
We're all waiting with bated breath for the simulation of your flat Earth. Remember this!
But here's a little task for you.

Please show a simulation on your flat Earth model using whatever laws of physics that you accept.
You must specify just what these laws of physics that you accept are.

Your simulation should show at least the detailed movement of the Sun, Moon and planets and predict:
Sunrise and sunset times and directions at any place requested.
The phases of the Moon and the times the Moon rises and sets.

If you have a good flat-Earth model that should be easy.
Time to put up of shut up Mr. Totallackey.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #111 on: March 10, 2020, 05:46:42 AM »
Can you point us towards a similar working simulation of the solar system in action as flat Earthers believe it to be?

No...?  Ok Toodle Pip flat Earthers.
There is no solar system...

The earth is the center of the universe.
We're all waiting with bated breath for the simulation of your flat Earth. Remember this!
But here's a little task for you.

Please show a simulation on your flat Earth model using whatever laws of physics that you accept.
You must specify just what these laws of physics that you accept are.

Your simulation should show at least the detailed movement of the Sun, Moon and planets and predict:
Sunrise and sunset times and directions at any place requested.
The phases of the Moon and the times the Moon rises and sets.

If you have a good flat-Earth model that should be easy.
Time to put up of shut up Mr. Totallackey.
Rab, the moderator strikes again...

I will grant you I haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims...

But wait...

You guys claim to have all the right math, correct?

Yet. all you can do is drone on and on about how real mathematical constructs of what you claim to be reality that could be so easily rendered in a CGI ... are not necessary.

You are one big hypocrite rab...and an alchemist...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 08:32:05 AM by totallackey »

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #112 on: March 10, 2020, 07:26:40 AM »
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The earth is the center of the universe.

I would agree with you up to a point. However I would say that at a certain time in the past (i.e. the beginning of time), everything and everywhere was also at the center of the Universe. So since the Earth is part of the Universe then yes it would have been at the center.

However I won't go into any more detail than that because you will no doubt disagree with everything that I have said already.  Not a problem.

Quote
ou guys claim to have all the right math, correct?

Which I would say is a little bit more than you have done up to now. Slagging off anyone that has different views to you is what you are good at.  Providing any real and evidenced reasons to back up what you belief in is something that you are not so good at.

Perhaps if FE could come up with some strong, verifiable and coherent evidence for why their beliefs should be adopted as the mainstream over RE then attitudes would change. But so far they haven't.  They can't even agree a single model among themselves.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 07:55:06 AM by Solarwind »

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #113 on: March 10, 2020, 08:15:57 AM »
Quote
ou guys claim to have all the right math, correct?

Which I would say is a little bit more than you have done up to now. Slagging off anyone that has different views to you is what you are good at.  Providing any real and evidenced reasons to back up what you belief in is something that you are not so good at.

Perhaps if FE could come up with some strong, verifiable and coherent evidence for why their beliefs should be adopted as the mainstream over RE then attitudes would change. But so far they haven't.  They can't even agree a single model among themselves.
If you have the right math, you should be able to render a CGI moving image of the sun traipsing about the Milky Way with all the planets dutifully in tow...

You can't.

Because it is impossible.

Because the math doesn't work.

Don't blame me you are getting insulted.

Fiction writers tend to get insulted for writing faulty fiction.

Toodle pip... alchemist.

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markjo

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #114 on: March 10, 2020, 08:26:16 AM »
If you have the right math, you should be able to render a CGI moving image of the sun traipsing about the Milky Way with all the planets dutifully in tow...

You can't.

Because it is impossible.

Because the math doesn't work.
When are you going to do the math and show us a CGI simulation of your favorite FE model? 

You don't want to be a hypocrite, do you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #115 on: March 10, 2020, 08:30:45 AM »
If you have the right math, you should be able to render a CGI moving image of the sun traipsing about the Milky Way with all the planets dutifully in tow...

You can't.

Because it is impossible.

Because the math doesn't work.
When are you going to do the math and show us a CGI simulation of your favorite FE model? 

You don't want to be a hypocrite, do you?
I am not a hypocrite:

I will grant you I haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims...


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markjo

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #116 on: March 10, 2020, 08:53:30 AM »
I am not a hypocrite:

I will grant you I haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims...
Yet you demand that we to the math for a CGI version of what RET claims.

This is the Flat Earth Society.

Why should we do the math and create a CGI RE model if you aren't willing to do the math and create a CGI  FE model?

Could it be that FE models are impossible?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #117 on: March 10, 2020, 09:00:17 AM »
I am not a hypocrite:

I will grant you I haven't done any of the math in order to render a CGI version of anything that FET claims...
Yet you demand that we to the math for a CGI version of what RET claims.

This is the Flat Earth Society.

Why should we do the math and create a CGI RE model if you aren't willing to do the math and create a CGI  FE model?

Could it be that FE models are impossible?
I doubt it, since the earth is flat.

And that is all we are concerned with, in the end.

I just like pointing out the fact there is no CGI moving image of what the heliocentrist alchemists claim to be reality, when all you need to do is use the math you hold so dear...

Think of the "billions and billions," to be made Opus!!!

Get on it! QUICK!!!

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markjo

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Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #118 on: March 10, 2020, 09:19:22 AM »
Could it be that FE models are impossible?
I doubt it, since the earth is flat.
Then a decent model shouldn't be a problem.

So why has no one made one yet?

And that is all we are concerned with, in the end.
Is it?

Is it really?

I thought that you might be concerned with reality.

I guess I was wrong.

I just like pointing out the fact there is no CGI moving image of what the heliocentrist alchemists claim to be reality, when all you need to do is use the math you hold so dear...
And I'm just pointing out that there is no such equivalent CGI image of what flatists claim to be reality, when all you need to do is figure out the math that you're so terrified of.

Sounds like a double standard at the very least.


Think of the "billions and billions," to be made Opus!!!

Get on it! QUICK!!!
Yes, just imagine the billions that could be made by having a model that shows the reality of the flat earth.

Hurry before Mark Sargent or Jearan Campenella beat you to it.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 09:22:37 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Explain this to me.........
« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2020, 11:26:21 AM »
Quote
I doubt it, since the earth is flat.

OK you seem to be pretty certain about that so show us the proof rather than just slagging off anyone who doesn't share your point of view.

You can't because there is no proof available.  And don't start singing the old tune about look out of your window and believing what you see.  That doesn't cut it anymore because it doesn't prove anything about the true form of the Earth as a whole.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 11:28:35 AM by Solarwind »