nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

I never stated you couldn't have grandkids at 65. I stated if you were 65 and have no grandchildren as of yet, odds are you will not.

What are these "odds" you speak of? Where are you getting your data?

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties both think we need to pass Universal Healthcare but also get upset about people they think made a stupid decision wanting access to healthcare?

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties both think we need to pass Universal Healthcare but also get upset about people they think made a stupid decision wanting access to healthcare?

Because resoueces are limited in a pandemic.

That's an incredible demonstration of failing to identify hypocrisy.

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties both think we need to pass Universal Healthcare but also get upset about people they think made a stupid decision wanting access to healthcare?

I see no conflict between wanting Universal Healthcare and also having opinions on how to triage patients when there is a lack of resources.

If 10 people are sick and you can only treat 5 of them, you have to decide who goes the beds.

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties both think we need to pass Universal Healthcare but also get upset about people they think made a stupid decision wanting access to healthcare?

I see no conflict between wanting Universal Healthcare and also having opinions on how to triage patients when there is a lack of resources.

If 10 people are sick and you can only treat 5 of them, you have to decide who goes the beds.

Yep. That's triage. That's not telling people the hospital is closed to anyone unvaccinated. Those are different things.

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties both think we need to pass Universal Healthcare but also get upset about people they think made a stupid decision wanting access to healthcare?

Because resoueces are limited in a pandemic.

And because hospitals shouldn't be used as a crutch for hundreds of thousands of people to get sick at the same time by a disease where a simple, safe and effective vaccine could have prevented them from needing it.

So off to the lower end of the triage they go.

A busted health care system hurts everyone. That's why we triage to prevent such outcomes

It's time America started being proactive to avoid calamities and not just be reactionary to calamities

Humanitarians let people have access to healthcare even when the people needing the healthcare need it as a result of having made a poor decision.

When the system is overloaded, the decisions are tougher, but straight up banning a certain class of people from healthcare institutions. Maybe you need to start thinking differently about when to move people into palliative care that don't have as good of a chance at a favorable outcome, but you don't lock your doors to the people you've deemed to stupid to help.

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 11:12:44 AM

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties both think we need to pass Universal Healthcare but also get upset about people they think made a stupid decision wanting access to healthcare?

I see no conflict between wanting Universal Healthcare and also having opinions on how to triage patients when there is a lack of resources.

If 10 people are sick and you can only treat 5 of them, you have to decide who goes the beds.

Yep. That's triage. That's not telling people the hospital is closed to anyone unvaccinated. Those are different things.

Plenty of hospitals are delaying providing normal services due to the load COVID is putting on the system. Worker shortages in the health care system are pretty serious right now.  So we are in a triage situation.

Would I support banning non-vaxxed COVID victims from getting treatment if it was available? I'd be tempted I will admit, but in the end I think I'd vote against doing that even though I hate that people are dying because of the unvaxxed taking up the beds.

It's like denying health care to people who weigh 500lbs. It can feel very karma-like but in the end, you either feel humans have worth and deserve care, or they don't.

Humanitarians let people have access to healthcare even when the people needing the healthcare need it as a result of having made a poor decision.

When the system is overloaded, the decisions are tougher, but straight up banning a certain class of people from healthcare institutions. Maybe you need to start thinking differently about when to move people into palliative care that don't have as good of a chance at a favorable outcome, but you don't lock your doors to the people you've deemed to stupid to help.

You mean, overloaded to the point of breaking like your hospitals are now? And that's even with controls on elective surgeries and other 'non essential' reasons being enacted. Yes. Like you say. Tough decisions are needed - and they are not always pretty

Even here in Oz, where vaccination rates are far higher, some people have died waiting hours for an ambulance when they ring up saying they have chest pains. "Sorry, no ambulance available"

And then there are some people getting a positive test and and rocking up to hospital simply because they are nervous and want a bed for observation 'just in case'

Well that’s it in the UK apparently.  All remaining Covid measures are due to end in 2 weeks, including the requirement to isolate if you test positive.

Todays numbers are:
68,214 Daily cases
13454 In hospital
276 Daily deaths

Health service is massively overloaded (largely because there was no spare capacity from the start) with a huge backlog of people waiting for treatments, and  staff practically burnt out from dealing with the extra burden.

Does it seem just tad premature to anyone else? 

This wouldn’t be anything to do with our twat of a prime minister desperately trying to hang on by buying the support of the nuttier wing of the party, would it?

I don't understand what the reasoning is behind telling people who have tested positive they don't need to isolate.

Quote from: Unconvinced on February 09, 2022, 10:24:59 AM

Well that’s it in the UK apparently.  All remaining Covid measures are due to end in 2 weeks, including the requirement to isolate if you test positive.

Todays numbers are:
68,214 Daily cases
13454 In hospital
276 Daily deaths

Health service is massively overloaded (largely because there was no spare capacity from the start) with a huge backlog of people waiting for treatments, and  staff practically burnt out from dealing with the extra burden.

Does it seem just tad premature to anyone else? 

This wouldn’t be anything to do with our twat of a prime minister desperately trying to hang on by buying the support of the nuttier wing of the party, would it?

I don't understand what the reasoning is behind telling people who have tested positive they don't need to isolate.

I guess to avoid the knock on effects of people being unable to work

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 11:12:44 AM

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties both think we need to pass Universal Healthcare but also get upset about people they think made a stupid decision wanting access to healthcare?

I see no conflict between wanting Universal Healthcare and also having opinions on how to triage patients when there is a lack of resources.

If 10 people are sick and you can only treat 5 of them, you have to decide who goes the beds.

Yep. That's triage. That's not telling people the hospital is closed to anyone unvaccinated. Those are different things.

correct

the current triage is the hospitals telling cancer patients and hip patients that the surgeries are being put off because they are full of covid patients.

so, then next bed that is available goes to surgery patient.
it's not rocket science here!

the regular ills are being put out behind those of the stupid ills.
they've had their time.
1.5yrs.
time to move over for the next in line.

and it's not kicking people out in expectation of a hypothetical future regular ills, tehre is a huge back log of these regular ills.
canada has ~500,000 backlog!

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties

Because they are not actually of the left.  They just self-identify as such.

I do not know why you all think hospitals in the US are overwhelmed with covid patients right now.

Or why kabool thinks we're still turning cancer patients away.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospital-icu-stress-level-tracker-n1287375

“The surge is real,” Havican said in an email. “What’s also causing our volume to increase so dramatically is that during the first wave, people with other medical conditions were not going to hospitals for treatment due to the pandemic. Now, all those patients who stayed away the first time, are coming in for treatment — as they should.”

ICU stress is a companion to the IHME’s hospital stress level metric, which measures the total number of beds in use by Covid patients. These patients, regardless of whether they were admitted for the disease or contracted the disease while hospitalized, require more resources to care for, said Dr. Ali Mokdad, a professor at the institute.

I think one of main issues in US hospitals are staffing shortages. Same with nursing homes. People are burnt out.

I do not know why you all think hospitals in the US are overwhelmed with covid patients right now.

Or why kabool thinks we're still turning cancer patients away.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospital-icu-stress-level-tracker-n1287375

Quote

“The surge is real,” Havican said in an email. “What’s also causing our volume to increase so dramatically is that during the first wave, people with other medical conditions were not going to hospitals for treatment due to the pandemic. Now, all those patients who stayed away the first time, are coming in for treatment — as they should.”

ICU stress is a companion to the IHME’s hospital stress level metric, which measures the total number of beds in use by Covid patients. These patients, regardless of whether they were admitted for the disease or contracted the disease while hospitalized, require more resources to care for, said Dr. Ali Mokdad, a professor at the institute.

I think one of main issues in US hospitals are staffing shortages. Same with nursing homes. People are burnt out.

I'd say kabool thinks were still turning cancer patients away because we are still turning cancer patients away.

"Americans get sicker as omicron stalls everything from heart surgeries to cancer care"

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/02/04/1078029696/americans-get-sicker-as-omicron-stalls-everything-from-heart-surgeries-to-cancer

all i can do is watch the hospitals on the news say "we're full"  "we got no nurses"  "cancer patients are turned awawy".

hospitals are either full or they're not.
but good if not.
open everything back up.
and if the politicians don't open things back up then the alt-right q folk were right and it's all a conspiracy to keep us at home.

and the enxt questino is why - why are they keeping us at home?

Google pneumonia.

oh
covid caused him to get pneumonia and pneumonia killed him.
aaah
not the covid.

if i cut the brakes to your car and it smashed into a wall.
it was the wall that killed you, not me.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 09, 2022, 11:49:16 AM

I do not know why you all think hospitals in the US are overwhelmed with covid patients right now.

Or why kabool thinks we're still turning cancer patients away.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospital-icu-stress-level-tracker-n1287375

Quote

“The surge is real,” Havican said in an email. “What’s also causing our volume to increase so dramatically is that during the first wave, people with other medical conditions were not going to hospitals for treatment due to the pandemic. Now, all those patients who stayed away the first time, are coming in for treatment — as they should.”

ICU stress is a companion to the IHME’s hospital stress level metric, which measures the total number of beds in use by Covid patients. These patients, regardless of whether they were admitted for the disease or contracted the disease while hospitalized, require more resources to care for, said Dr. Ali Mokdad, a professor at the institute.

I think one of main issues in US hospitals are staffing shortages. Same with nursing homes. People are burnt out.

I'd say kabool thinks were still turning cancer patients away because we are still turning cancer patients away.

"Americans get sicker as omicron stalls everything from heart surgeries to cancer care"

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/02/04/1078029696/americans-get-sicker-as-omicron-stalls-everything-from-heart-surgeries-to-cancer

And now that the cases are dropping, those things won't be put off. This happens every time there's a new wave.

oh
covid caused him to get pneumonia and pneumonia killed him.
aaah
not the covid.

if i cut the brakes to your car and it smashed into a wall.
it was the wall that killed you, not me.

Nope. COVID is a kind of pneumonia. Just check and see if pneumonia is equally concerning as Covid. To me, it seems it is.

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 12:12:08 PM

oh
covid caused him to get pneumonia and pneumonia killed him.
aaah
not the covid.

if i cut the brakes to your car and it smashed into a wall.
it was the wall that killed you, not me.

Nope. COVID is a kind of pneumonia. Just check and see if pneumonia is equally concerning as Covid. To me, it seems it is.

Before covid you never really heard of people with pneumonia going on to develop pulmonary fibrosis.

Now many people have ended up with it. You don't get better from pulmonary fibrosis. Lungs filled with scarred, dead tissue where no gas exchange takes place. Permanently

Covid is far more than 'a type of pneumonia'. Last I checked, pneumonia isn't able to cause dick shrinkage. Covid fucks you up all over. Lungs, heart, brain and anything your blood makes contact with. Including your dick.

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties

Because they are not actually of the left.  They just self-identify as such.

That's what I'm seeing here unfortunately

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on February 09, 2022, 11:46:31 AM

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties

Because they are not actually of the left.  They just self-identify as such.

That's what I'm seeing here unfortunately

Are you normally this binary?

You think everything can boil down to a single issue?

So someone who believes in science vaccines, climate change, women's rights to have abortions, gay rights, isn't a religious zealot, loathes guns is some far right wing nut job because he would triage some selfish anti vaxxer moron to the bottom of the queue in a highly burdeoned and stressed hospital environment

Nice trolling

Just let anyone take a hospital bed then because they're scared they tested positive and feel like crap. Execellent use of facilities there. Who gives a shit for triage. First come, first serve

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 12:56:36 PM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on February 09, 2022, 11:46:31 AM

Quote from: boydster on February 09, 2022, 10:59:23 AM

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on February 09, 2022, 10:38:17 AM

jsut stop admitting them for covid - only regular hospital issues and vaccinated covid care and vax adverse covid care.
the everyday regular antivasker freedom fighter can stay at home.

How do antivaxxers both think COVID is a lie but also get upset about being banned from the hospital if they catch it?

How do lefties

Because they are not actually of the left.  They just self-identify as such.

That's what I'm seeing here unfortunately

Are you normally this binary?

You think everything can boil down to a single issue?

So someone who believes in science vaccines, climate change, women's rights to have abortions, gay rights, isn't a religious zealot, loathes guns is some far right wing nut job because he would triage some selfish anti vaxxer moron to the bottom of the queue in a highly burdeoned and stressed hospital environment

Nice trolling

Just let anyone take a hospital bed then because they're scared they tested positive and feel like crap. Execellent use of facilities there. Who gives a shit for triage. First come, first serve

Look who's trolling. That's not at all what I said. I literally said YOU FUCKING TRIAGE PATIENTS, as opposed to locking your doors to The Stupids™ like you guys keep suggesting. If there's not enough beds, and someone needs one that has a better prognosis than a person that's already in a bed, guess what? The person with the worse prognosis loses that ICU bed and gets moved to palliative care or wherever makes more sense.

History won't look kindly on anyone championing closing hospitals off to sick and dying people just because the masses think they have some moral high ground. You lost that high ground when you decided you wanted to actually entertain banning sick people from getting healthcare.

And now that the cases are dropping, those things won't be put off. This happens every time there's a new wave.

next wave that comes around, don't let them in.
becuase they come in and occupy space for weeks and months.

Look who's trolling. That's not at all what I said. I literally said YOU FUCKING TRIAGE PATIENTS, as opposed to locking your doors to The Stupids™ like you guys keep suggesting. If there's not enough beds, and someone needs one that has a better prognosis than a person that's already in a bed, guess what? The person with the worse prognosis loses that ICU bed and gets moved to palliative care or wherever makes more sense.

History won't look kindly on anyone championing closing hospitals off to sick and dying people just because the masses think they have some moral high ground. You lost that high ground when you decided you wanted to actually entertain banning sick people from getting healthcare.

no
again
there's a backlog.
there will be no shortage of patients coming in.

however,
in a triage, if you can't breath, you get pushed to front of line.

new rule - if you can't breath because you have covid but chose not to get a vax and are not vax adverse, you do not get preferential treatment.
taht's it.

Quote from: Unconvinced on February 09, 2022, 10:24:59 AM

Well that’s it in the UK apparently.  All remaining Covid measures are due to end in 2 weeks, including the requirement to isolate if you test positive.

Todays numbers are:
68,214 Daily cases
13454 In hospital
276 Daily deaths

Health service is massively overloaded (largely because there was no spare capacity from the start) with a huge backlog of people waiting for treatments, and  staff practically burnt out from dealing with the extra burden.

Does it seem just tad premature to anyone else? 

This wouldn’t be anything to do with our twat of a prime minister desperately trying to hang on by buying the support of the nuttier wing of the party, would it?

I don't understand what the reasoning is behind telling people who have tested positive they don't need to isolate.

Because there’s an influential faction of the Tory party agitating about “lockdown restrictions” (despite the fact we’ve not being in lockdown for ages).  The “Covid Recovery Group” (CRG) are largely the same as the European Research Group (ERG), the geniuses who pushed for a hard Brexit, and the Net Zero Scrutiny Group (NZSG), who think climate change is a load of old tosh, or at least someone else’s problem.

Johnson is in deep shit with the public since we found out about a culture of boozing throughout the pandemic, including all the time people weren’t even allowed to visit dying relatives.  That’s pissed off conservative voters as much as everyone else.

It’s entirely about him getting support wherever he can so the party doesn’t chuck him out.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 09, 2022, 12:29:33 PM

And now that the cases are dropping, those things won't be put off. This happens every time there's a new wave.

next wave that comes around, don't let them in.
becuase they come in and occupy space for weeks and months.

Hopefully this will be the last major wave. Then you will have to find someone else to fantasize about kicking out of the hospital. 

Quote from: JJA on February 09, 2022, 11:56:21 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 09, 2022, 11:49:16 AM

I do not know why you all think hospitals in the US are overwhelmed with covid patients right now.

Or why kabool thinks we're still turning cancer patients away.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hospital-icu-stress-level-tracker-n1287375

Quote

“The surge is real,” Havican said in an email. “What’s also causing our volume to increase so dramatically is that during the first wave, people with other medical conditions were not going to hospitals for treatment due to the pandemic. Now, all those patients who stayed away the first time, are coming in for treatment — as they should.”

ICU stress is a companion to the IHME’s hospital stress level metric, which measures the total number of beds in use by Covid patients. These patients, regardless of whether they were admitted for the disease or contracted the disease while hospitalized, require more resources to care for, said Dr. Ali Mokdad, a professor at the institute.

I think one of main issues in US hospitals are staffing shortages. Same with nursing homes. People are burnt out.

I'd say kabool thinks were still turning cancer patients away because we are still turning cancer patients away.

"Americans get sicker as omicron stalls everything from heart surgeries to cancer care"

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/02/04/1078029696/americans-get-sicker-as-omicron-stalls-everything-from-heart-surgeries-to-cancer

And now that the cases are dropping, those things won't be put off. This happens every time there's a new wave.

I do not know why you think that things getting better at some point in the future don't mean they aren't bad now.

The point is that hospitals continue to be overwhelmed and life saving procedures are still being put off.  We are in a triage situation that continues to turn patients away. 

If I have to choose between a cancer patient and someone who refused the vax and went to a covid party, I know who I'd pick.