nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

And the Ivermectin saga continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns

Some of the more interesting items;

“The main error is that at least 79 of the patient records are obvious clones of other records,” Brown told the Guardian. “It’s certainly the hardest to explain away as innocent error, especially since the clones aren’t even pure copies. There are signs that they have tried to change one or two fields to make them look more natural.”

“If you remove this one study from the scientific literature, suddenly there are very few positive randomised control trials of ivermectin for Covid-19. Indeed, if you get rid of just this research, most meta-analyses that have found positive results would have their conclusions entirely reversed.”

“Although science trends towards self-correction, something is clearly broken in a system that can allow a study as full of problems as the Elgazzar paper to run unchallenged for seven months,” he said.

“Thousands of highly educated scientists, doctors, pharmacists, and at least four major medicines regulators missed a fraud so apparent that it might as well have come with a flashing neon sign. That this all happened amid an ongoing global health crisis of epic proportions is all the more terrifying.”

This last part is something I've heard about a lot of scientific studies.  Apparently there isn't a lot of glory in policing existing studies.

Quote from: JJA on July 16, 2021, 06:40:49 AM

The quote you were responding to wasn't talking about anecdotes. You are quoting an earlier part of the discussion.

One of those quotes I just showed you was literally from the post I was responding to. And the point was to illustrate that yes, you are leaning heavily on anecdotes to feed the alarmism you are promoting. When you oversell how dangerous/bad/evil/whatever something is and frame the discussion in ways that ignores important information, you drive people away from your cause.

What are we even arguing about here?

I see the US as heading to another large spike, more deaths, a longer recovery time, an unhealthy economy. Infections and hospitalizations and deaths are going up, and going up fast.

I think we should all still be wearing masks, push for more vaccinations, social distance as much as possible, but not go into a total lockdown.

The Delta variant is EXTREMELY contagious and poses a very real danger. That's not being alarmist, that's being rightly worried.

Quote from: boydster on July 16, 2021, 07:16:12 AM

Quote from: JJA on July 16, 2021, 06:40:49 AM

The quote you were responding to wasn't talking about anecdotes. You are quoting an earlier part of the discussion.

One of those quotes I just showed you was literally from the post I was responding to. And the point was to illustrate that yes, you are leaning heavily on anecdotes to feed the alarmism you are promoting. When you oversell how dangerous/bad/evil/whatever something is and frame the discussion in ways that ignores important information, you drive people away from your cause.

What are we even arguing about here?

I see the US as heading to another large spike, more deaths, a longer recovery time, an unhealthy economy. Infections and hospitalizations and deaths are going up, and going up fast.

I think we should all still be wearing masks, push for more vaccinations, social distance as much as possible, but not go into a total lockdown.

The Delta variant is EXTREMELY contagious and poses a very real danger. That's not being alarmist, that's being rightly worried.

I think what we have to consider is perspective. Yes, covid sucks but the reality is, it's going to be here to stay for many years yet. Simply, countries need a plan on how they are going to 'live with' covid. Vaccinations are obviously key.

Of course, in Australia I am pissed that even if all of us are vaccinated, our government wants to still forbid overseas travel. (for us plebs - our politicians however are jetsetting away all the time as they please)

It makes zero sense to lock down and close every small business down in a fully vaccinated community. That sort of thing does real damage to peoples livelihoods which can do lasting damage for generations.

At some point, covid will be treated like influenza. And no one is saying we should ditch face masks and hygiene (like hand sanitizing) we have have come accustomed to. But hard lock downs? In a fully vaccinated (as much as possible) community, that has to end.

The mRNA vaccines seem to be quite effective against the Delta strain too. I imagine as the years go on vaccine supply will be plentiful, boosters to updated variants will be given and we will see fewer and fewer covid infections and death. Probably less so than we see with influenza

Australia (and I assume most of the developed world) has a near 95% vaccine rate against all the major viruses that we give in childhood. Covid will be the same. It might even be higher if having the vaccine is mandated for certain job sectors (such as health care or working with vulnerable people)

Tell that to the people who co tinously snuff out ebola outbreaks.

Tell that to the people who co tinously snuff out ebola outbreaks.

Yes, lockdowns are great in the absence of vaccines as evidenced by Australias own success. But to lockdown for a virus that everyone's inoculated against is practically madness. Locking down for longer than you need to only causes unnecessary damage to the economy which has a direct impact on peoples livelihoods, health and happiness. If everyones vaccinated, why lock down. People are losing their jobs. Their houses. Marriages are crumbling. People have committed suicide. Children in school are getting poorer quality education. Some parents stuck overseas haven't seen their newborn children in nearly 2 years because a simple few week visit to family (newborn too young to travel) left them stuck when Australia slammed shut the border. And if Australians everywhere are vaccinated and the parents are vaccinated they still cant come home? Crazy

We cant sit on our hands forever. Covid is here. That is the reality. Vaccinations are possible and is being made available (slowly in Australias case). We need a plan which so far is something Australia lacks. Other countries are making them - why not us?

Tell that to the people who co tinously snuff out ebola outbreaks.

Which are not dealt with through lockdowns..

And the Ivermectin saga continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns

Some of the more interesting items;

Quote

“The main error is that at least 79 of the patient records are obvious clones of other records,” Brown told the Guardian. “It’s certainly the hardest to explain away as innocent error, especially since the clones aren’t even pure copies. There are signs that they have tried to change one or two fields to make them look more natural.”

Quote

“If you remove this one study from the scientific literature, suddenly there are very few positive randomised control trials of ivermectin for Covid-19. Indeed, if you get rid of just this research, most meta-analyses that have found positive results would have their conclusions entirely reversed.”

Quote

“Although science trends towards self-correction, something is clearly broken in a system that can allow a study as full of problems as the Elgazzar paper to run unchallenged for seven months,” he said.

“Thousands of highly educated scientists, doctors, pharmacists, and at least four major medicines regulators missed a fraud so apparent that it might as well have come with a flashing neon sign. That this all happened amid an ongoing global health crisis of epic proportions is all the more terrifying.”

This last part is something I've heard about a lot of scientific studies.  Apparently there isn't a lot of glory in policing existing studies.

Retraction Watch has kept track of all the retracted COVID studies. It's pretty interesting https://retractionwatch.com/retracted-coronavirus-covid-19-papers/

My comment was in response to lockdowns dont work.
For a virus that has a 100% kill rate it most certainly does work.

That said.
Corone with its 2% and realistically rhats all old people, the attitude or general lack of, allows this to continue on like herpes and aids.

So because the world continued on for 14months of yoyo lockdowns and openings, vax deniers, covid deniers, gebeeal shitass people faking tests so they can fly, this continued.

It should have been an all or nothing.
Yoyo doesnt work.
Limping in at 50% doesnt work.
Lockdowns dont woek if 9nly half the people are doing it.

Shifter can stop crying about how his country sucks.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiO2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmZyZWV0aGluay5jb20vaGVhbHRoL2Nvcm9uYXZpcnVzLXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbi0y0gFBaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZnJlZXRoaW5rLmNvbS9oZWFsdGgvY29yb25hdmlydXMtdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uLTI_YW1wPTE?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

Therapies.
This is what ive been hoping for.

Aussie aussie oi oi oi

Shifter can stop crying about how his country sucks.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiO2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmZyZWV0aGluay5jb20vaGVhbHRoL2Nvcm9uYXZpcnVzLXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbi0y0gFBaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZnJlZXRoaW5rLmNvbS9oZWFsdGgvY29yb25hdmlydXMtdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uLTI_YW1wPTE?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

Therapies.
This is what ive been hoping for.

Aussie aussie oi oi oi

Weapons of mass destruction for the win!

If you thought anti vaxxers were loud and annoying, how about anti crispies?

Crisper will bring about the umbrella corp zombie apocolyse.
Hoepfully a few years off still.
Kill cancer and corona first.
Gogogoogog.



Or possibyl you ref to killing all asians or whatever subspecies disputus is racisting about in the othe rthread.

Crisper will bring about the umbrella corp zombie apocolyse.
Hoepfully a few years off still.
Kill cancer and corona first.
Gogogoogog.



Or possibyl you ref to killing all asians or whatever subspecies disputus is racisting about in the othe rthread.

Nah, just going by what is has been described as in numerous circles

https://abc30.com/gene-editing-crispr-do-it-yourself-kits-listed-as-weapon-of-mass-destruction/1318536/

Although I'm sure dipshit1 would love the technology for nefarious reasons

I'm a fan of vaccines but would be rather hesitant to be the Guinea pig for this technology.

I'm sure someday it will be widespread and possibly used to create super soldiers or whatever. But we have to experiment on animals first

Theres the master conspiracy on a global 911 level.
Unleash a 2% old person killer to cut red tape on crisping tech research.

Theres the master conspiracy on a global 911 level.
Unleash a 2% old person killer to cut red tape on crisping tech research.

While many countries might have laws that safeguard against unethical practices over gene editing, you can be sure that there are rogue countries who wont give a flap and use it however they please if they think it will give them an advantage or notoriety.

To go with your grwat white ape photo... china already made a human-gorilla baby

To go with your grwat white ape photo... china already made a human-gorilla baby

Indeed - The world expressed outrage and China pretended to reprimand the 'rogue scientist'

The state showed up at my stepfather's nursing home today. They think it might be the delta variant rampaging through the residents and staff. I think there are 30 residents and 15 staff testing positive right now. So far most of them are not seriously ill.

The state showed up at my stepfather's nursing home today. They think it might be the delta variant rampaging through the residents and staff. I think there are 30 residents and 15 staff testing positive right now. So far most of them are not seriously ill.

Are the residents and staff all vaxxed?

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 20, 2021, 01:31:42 PM

The state showed up at my stepfather's nursing home today. They think it might be the delta variant rampaging through the residents and staff. I think there are 30 residents and 15 staff testing positive right now. So far most of them are not seriously ill.

Are the residents and staff all vaxxed?

I think most of the residents are, but there might be some staff who aren't. All the people who are having the worst symptoms (and a couple are in the hosp) are staff.

Quote from: Stash on July 20, 2021, 02:24:39 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 20, 2021, 01:31:42 PM

The state showed up at my stepfather's nursing home today. They think it might be the delta variant rampaging through the residents and staff. I think there are 30 residents and 15 staff testing positive right now. So far most of them are not seriously ill.

Are the residents and staff all vaxxed?

I think most of the residents are, but there might be some staff who aren't. All the people who are having the worst symptoms (and a couple are in the hosp) are staff.

It would be interesting to see how many of the more severely impacted (hospitalized) are vaxxed. I keep reading headlines like, "99.5% of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaccinated..." I don't disbelieve it, just curious how that measures up in a proximity intense environment like a nursing home.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 20, 2021, 03:48:47 PM

Quote from: Stash on July 20, 2021, 02:24:39 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 20, 2021, 01:31:42 PM

The state showed up at my stepfather's nursing home today. They think it might be the delta variant rampaging through the residents and staff. I think there are 30 residents and 15 staff testing positive right now. So far most of them are not seriously ill.

Are the residents and staff all vaxxed?

I think most of the residents are, but there might be some staff who aren't. All the people who are having the worst symptoms (and a couple are in the hosp) are staff.

It would be interesting to see how many of the more severely impacted (hospitalized) are vaxxed. I keep reading headlines like, "99.5% of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaccinated..." I don't disbelieve it, just curious how that measures up in a proximity intense environment like a nursing home.

Yeah, I think that seems right. If this tiny nursing home is anything to go by, the old people who are testing positive have all been vaccinated, and they have all sorts of co-morbid illnesses including the ones that make COVID worse, and almost all of them are not experiencing serious symptoms.

Unfortunayely old people are old.

Unfortunayely old people are old.

Youth is wasted on the young.

What a curious turn around.  I guess Fox News decided that corpses don't make a great audience.

What a curious turn around.  I guess Fox News decided that corpses don't make a great audience.

Also Hannity came out pro-vax to an extent.



Also, Fox has a passport system, like many companies:

Fox News has a strict COVID-19 policy that includes the kind of vaccine passport Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and other right-wing hosts have railed against

"The Fox Corporation has instituted a strict COVID-19 policy that includes a vaccine passport, allowing only the company's fully-vaccinated employees to work in their offices without wearing a mask or social distancing."
https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-covid-protocols-vaccination-passport-memo-tucker-carlson-2021-7

Quote from: Stash on July 20, 2021, 03:57:15 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 20, 2021, 03:48:47 PM

Quote from: Stash on July 20, 2021, 02:24:39 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on July 20, 2021, 01:31:42 PM

The state showed up at my stepfather's nursing home today. They think it might be the delta variant rampaging through the residents and staff. I think there are 30 residents and 15 staff testing positive right now. So far most of them are not seriously ill.

Are the residents and staff all vaxxed?

I think most of the residents are, but there might be some staff who aren't. All the people who are having the worst symptoms (and a couple are in the hosp) are staff.

It would be interesting to see how many of the more severely impacted (hospitalized) are vaxxed. I keep reading headlines like, "99.5% of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaccinated..." I don't disbelieve it, just curious how that measures up in a proximity intense environment like a nursing home.

Yeah, I think that seems right. If this tiny nursing home is anything to go by, the old people who are testing positive have all been vaccinated, and they have all sorts of co-morbid illnesses including the ones that make COVID worse, and almost all of them are not experiencing serious symptoms.

I was reading something like Pfizer is 60 something percent protective against contracting the Delta (as opposed to 90+% against good olde-fashioned C-19). So it's good to hear that it may, anecdotally, still (and other vaxs) is living up to the 90%+ protection from getting a severe case requiring intense medical intervention.

Quote from: Themightykabool on July 20, 2021, 04:45:15 PM

Unfortunayely old people are old.

Youth is wasted on the young.

Like their knees and hips and backs
Immune system just "aint what it used to be" for some.

Quote from: Crouton on July 20, 2021, 06:37:55 PM

What a curious turn around.  I guess Fox News decided that corpses don't make a great audience.

Also Hannity came out pro-vax to an extent.



Also, Fox has a passport system, like many companies:

Fox News has a strict COVID-19 policy that includes the kind of vaccine passport Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and other right-wing hosts have railed against

"The Fox Corporation has instituted a strict COVID-19 policy that includes a vaccine passport, allowing only the company's fully-vaccinated employees to work in their offices without wearing a mask or social distancing."
https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-covid-protocols-vaccination-passport-memo-tucker-carlson-2021-7

Aaaaa the liars are liars.
Amazing.
This is why they sjould be brought up in court.
They have known influence and are actively and knowingly spouting lies.
Law suits away!
Can yoy imagine the lawyer fee on a class action suit of 5M people or so or whatever the pop is rhat whatch their garbage.

I was just thinking about the door to door vaccine thing. When I first heard of it, I thought it was a good idea, but I also thought they were actually offering vaccines! I guess it's just an effort to get people to sign up for vaccines, which is a waste of time. They should have vaccination vans rolling out, actually offer a vaccine to people. The J&J vaccine doesn't require all that special refrigeration, it may not be as effective as the others, but it is better than nothing. 

A van that just says something like "vax patrol" rolling door to door and raising needles in an overhead fashion as they knocked would be a little jarring.  I would want a little heads up first.

I think they'd have better luck if they worked with businesses to setup clinics wherever they could.  There was talk of that in Utah but I don't think it's happened yet.