nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

What they wont report is the vastly reduced amount of hospitalizations and deaths.

You were saying...
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/92575
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-hospitalizations-deaths-plummet-following-vaccine-rollout-older-adults-n1269940
https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1127
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/health/covid-vaccination-breakthrough-infection.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56933756

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 29, 2021, 07:02:05 PM

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1408779614114172929?s=20

Quote

About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer  vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures

Oh, that's not good.

Being vaccinated does not mean you can't get Covid,  it just means you have been equipped with the weapons to fight it.

Also doesn't mean you will win the fight either,  you could still die,  but the chances of dying or being hospitalized are greatly reduced.

The media will continue to play on stories like this,  exploiting peoples ignorance about how vaccines work.

I know it doesn't mean you can't catch the corone, but it does not seem good that half the infected adults had been fully vaccinated. I do agree with Shifter, that waiting to see how many become seriously ill is important (but I don't think the media should refrain from reporting on infections after vaccinations).

Israel is a good country to watch, because their population over the age of 16 are about 80% vaccinated. Are there any other countries with this high vaccination rate?

Quote from: boydster on June 30, 2021, 05:21:08 AM

Journalists should be pointing out newsworthy information about successes and failures of the individual vaccines. The media takes a lot of shit, most of it well earned, but I think reporting that Pfizer recipients may be more vulnerable to getting infected with the Delta variant than people that got one of the other vaccines is the right thing for them to be doing. Is it alarming? Yes. But it doesn't seem to be alarming for the sake of being alarmist.

You watch when the media starts reporting on all the people dying from covid who were vaccinated - because in some countries you have almost the entire population vaccinated, you will still get the odd person who dies from it. But they will blow it up like it's a big deal

What they wont report is the vastly reduced amount of hospitalizations and deaths. Especially for old or immuno compromised/vulnerable people where catching covid was a literal roll of the dice as to whether you will survive, being vaccinated means you might have the chance of a fit 20-30 year old. The chance of death is never zero and that goes for all vaccines. An unvaccinated population could see hundreds to thousands of deaths every day. A fully vaccinated population of a few dozen million might only see single digit deaths a day. To hell with the media and their stupid fear campaigns.

That is different than vilifying the media for responsibly reporting on something that should genuinely be reported. People who got the Pfizer vaccine are very likely going to be interested in knowing if it is not as effective against currently active strains so they can make an informed decision about whether and how to adjust their daily routine. If the Moderna vaccine is found to be less effective against the Delta variant, or whatever one may come next, I'll definitely want to know. It doesn't have to be a Doom-And-Gloom thing. Sometimes, actual news will generate lots of clicks, and that's not a bad thing. The bad thing is when anytime there is an article that generates lots of clicks or sounds alarming, it gets dismissed as just "the media being the media." And that was my point, which you ignored to reframe the conversation. It's not "exploiting people's ignorance" (that was the quote from JerkFace that I was really responding to) to inform them that one of the major vaccines is showing signs that it isn't quite as effective as some of the others when it encounters the most dominant strain of COVID known to be circulating right now.

Israel is a good country to watch, because their population over the age of 16 are about 80% vaccinated. Are there any other countries with this high vaccination rate?

The UK is up there - along with a few others.  About 85% of adults have had the first dose and we're getting there with second doses - over 60% I think?

Quote from: Shifter on June 30, 2021, 08:43:22 AM

Quote from: boydster on June 30, 2021, 05:21:08 AM

Journalists should be pointing out newsworthy information about successes and failures of the individual vaccines. The media takes a lot of shit, most of it well earned, but I think reporting that Pfizer recipients may be more vulnerable to getting infected with the Delta variant than people that got one of the other vaccines is the right thing for them to be doing. Is it alarming? Yes. But it doesn't seem to be alarming for the sake of being alarmist.

You watch when the media starts reporting on all the people dying from covid who were vaccinated - because in some countries you have almost the entire population vaccinated, you will still get the odd person who dies from it. But they will blow it up like it's a big deal

What they wont report is the vastly reduced amount of hospitalizations and deaths. Especially for old or immuno compromised/vulnerable people where catching covid was a literal roll of the dice as to whether you will survive, being vaccinated means you might have the chance of a fit 20-30 year old. The chance of death is never zero and that goes for all vaccines. An unvaccinated population could see hundreds to thousands of deaths every day. A fully vaccinated population of a few dozen million might only see single digit deaths a day. To hell with the media and their stupid fear campaigns.

That is different than vilifying the media for responsibly reporting on something that should genuinely be reported. People who got the Pfizer vaccine are very likely going to be interested in knowing if it is not as effective against currently active strains so they can make an informed decision about whether and how to adjust their daily routine. If the Moderna vaccine is found to be less effective against the Delta variant, or whatever one may come next, I'll definitely want to know. It doesn't have to be a Doom-And-Gloom thing. Sometimes, actual news will generate lots of clicks, and that's not a bad thing. The bad thing is when anytime there is an article that generates lots of clicks or sounds alarming, it gets dismissed as just "the media being the media." And that was my point, which you ignored to reframe the conversation. It's not "exploiting people's ignorance" (that was the quote from JerkFace that I was really responding to) to inform them that one of the major vaccines is showing signs that it isn't quite as effective as some of the others when it encounters the most dominant strain of COVID known to be circulating right now.

'Respectable' media outlets may report it well - once you get past the headline - others like Americas Fox or UK 'The Sun' etc will whip up a frenzy and dominate the discussions. And watch how governments will still enforce lockdowns and closure of businessness even with a fully vaccinated population.

Well maybe I am cynical because we have such an idiot and bastard of a PM here who even admitted as such. Covid deaths among vaccinated people is all the fuel he needs to ensure we stay in limbo and left behind while the rest of the world gets on with a plan for dealing with covid

I support masks, lock downs and 'social distancing' - but lockdowns especially will be redundant in the face of a fully vaccinated public.

Now the vaccine is not perfect - no vaccine is and this one frankly is not only new and developed in record time, it's a vaccine against a type of virus we have never done before.

Now if countries were willing to accept thousands to tens of thousands of deaths from influenza each year - despite available vaccines - it's time to stop crippling livelihoods and indebting future generations to pay off billions (some countries trillions) of dollars in debt for many decades to come - all for a few short years of covid phobia

Australias vaccine response has been nothing but retarded and messy. So the PM says 'everyone can get Astrazenica'. All the state premiers are saying DO NOT get Astrazenica. By the time I am 'allowed' to get a vaccine I'll probably be bumped further down the line as 'boosters' or 'updated' versions to deal with the delta strain are given to the 'high priority' groups. Less than 5% of Oz are vaccinated and you still have some old people, people transporting overseas arrivals and front line medical workers still waiting for their shot.

Australia is f#&ked and we can thank this dickhead

weren't you boasting last fall that aussies locked down and thats why people didn't have to mask up or die like other countries?

weren't you boasting last fall that aussies locked down and thats why people didn't have to mask up or die like other countries?

Yeah, when there was no vaccine and we practically eliminated covid so had a 'business as usual' lifestyle - a short lockdown enabled us to live like that. Now the lockdown is indefinite and even if we were fully vaccinated we still wont be allowed to travel - The PM said as such. Well F him

Now we have governments refusing to build a dedicated quarantine facility - instead relying on hotels which were never intended for such purposes and with this delta strain it makes it a near certainly the hotels are near useless

Had one guy enter one from interstate - the chances he had covid was near zero. But thanks to the lockdown rules he was put into a hotel with overseas travelers who near certainly had covid. And he contracted covid towards the end of his stay and was released into the community infectious. Way to go

Australia did well in 2020 but we have totally screwed up 2021. Our PM is an idiot and a dud and our state leaders have been relying on nothing but luck.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 30, 2021, 09:41:46 AM

Israel is a good country to watch, because their population over the age of 16 are about 80% vaccinated. Are there any other countries with this high vaccination rate?

The UK is up there - along with a few others.  About 85% of adults have had the first dose and we're getting there with second doses - over 60% I think?

Oh cool. Mongolia and Uruguay have a better vaccination rate than the US. lol

I was looking up how the UAE is doing, since they're the most vaccinated and they are having a spike due to the delta variant, but if this is a legitimate news source then Sotrovimab looks promising (as a treatment) https://www.khaleejtimes.com/coronavirus-pandemic/covid-19-uae-releases-2-week-treatment-results-for-new-sotrovimab-medicine

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/01/health/coronavirus-johnson-vaccine-delta.html

The Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccine is effective against the highly contagious Delta variant, even eight months after inoculation, the company reported on Thursday — a finding that should reassure the 11 million Americans who have gotten the shot.

The vaccine showed a small drop in potency against the variant, compared with its effectiveness against the original virus, the company said. But the vaccine was more effective against the Delta variant than the Beta variant, first identified in South Africa — the pattern also seen with mRNA vaccines.

Antibodies stimulated by the vaccine grow in strength over time, researchers also reported.

The results were described in a news release, and the company said that both studies had been submitted for online publication on Thursday. One of those studies has been accepted for publication in a scientific journal. Both studies are small, and the researchers said they had released the results early because of intense interest from the public.

“The coverage of the variants is going to be better than what people anticipated,” said Dr. Dan Barouch, a virologist at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. “There was a lot of misinformation that was spreading, so we decided that we needed to get this into the public domain right away.”

That's good, lots of people around here ended up getting the J&J vaccine.

Antibodies stimulated by the vaccine grow in strength over time

That's... interesting.  Early adoption FTW!

Quote

Antibodies stimulated by the vaccine grow in strength over time

That's... interesting.  Early adoption FTW!

Lets hope they stay primed and not get 'bored' and find targets in the body to attack like auto immune diseases

Well looks like Australias illustrious PM reads these forums and the disdain I have for him and his cold hearted bastard ways of keeping covid an issue to bolster his election chances. He now 'has a plan' to deal with covid post vaccinations. That is, once enough people are vaccinated, all lock downs and travel restrictions are to end forever and for covid to be treated the way we treat influenza. No more 'elimination' strategy (so no state wide lockdowns on account of maybe a case somewhere).

All heroes need a villain. Seems like the PM is ensuring he becomes the hero of this covid story in time for next years election. He's still an arsehole but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Australia is at the very bottom of the OECD countries of it population being vaccinated (~4% as of July) - and that is entirely the fault of our not only inept government, but a government trying to capitalize its election chances using covid). Bastards


In the meantime, while I wait till next year before I am likely 'allowed' to be vaccinated at this rate, I will continue to be a germophobe at work. Before I start, I spray disinfectant over everything. Keyboards, mouse, phone, desk, door handles, light switches, the fridge handle, the bottle of milk in the fridge I'll use later, the microwave, the cupboard doors I'll open, the toilet, everything! Then wipe that shit down with disinfectant wipes. Thanks for making me OCD about germs covid 

Well looks like Australias illustrious PM reads these forums and the disdain I have for him and his cold hearted bastard ways of keeping covid an issue to bolster his election chances. He now 'has a plan' to deal with covid post vaccinations.

Does that plan include getting people vaccinated?

Dont breath in or breathe on people.

Spraying everything less likely the mode youll catch this.


Good luck

If everyone would just wear upside down snorkels then we can end this for all but the very shortest.

Quote from: Shifter on July 02, 2021, 06:02:16 AM

Well looks like Australias illustrious PM reads these forums and the disdain I have for him and his cold hearted bastard ways of keeping covid an issue to bolster his election chances. He now 'has a plan' to deal with covid post vaccinations.

Does that plan include getting people vaccinated?

As slowly as he thinks he can get away with doing, yes. We have to be vaccinated for all this to work. I'm sure he'll time it right so by the tail end of 2022, we can claim a victory and he can ride those coat tails to an election victory. Cant have us out of the woods just yet because then by the time the election rolls around and life is back to normal for a while, we might be judging him on all the monumental fuck ups he's done instead. Hundreds of billions of dollars and generations of people to pay back the debts incurred for this fat loser to boost his chances at another term in office. Really, that's what it is

Should be easy enough to fix.  Australia isn't a shithole country that can't afford the vaccine.  You might have to offer to give some people their firearms back in exchange for getting vaccinated though.

Should be easy enough to fix.  Australia isn't a shithole country that can't afford the vaccine.  You might have to offer to give some people their firearms back in exchange for getting vaccinated though.

We have a facility pumping out a million doses worth of Astrazenica a week - We should be having millions of doses of Pfizer in the country too (40 million by years end and we only have 25 million population). We have a population wanting to get vaccinated yet it's only being served to the people at a trickles pace. The government has said NO to mass vaccination hubs and instead relied on people getting it done through their GPs. We still have people working in health care or old people yet to get their vaccine despite being the 'top priority'. Credit where it's due, America while in the deepest shit, got its shit together and got its people vaccinated at an impressive pace. I shudder at how our country would perform under the same circumstance. Our politicians rely on stupid aussie slangs like 'She'll be right mate!' and 'We're the lucky country!'

It would be quicker if all 25 million aussies took a vacation to the US.  I don't think they even check identification and we're going through some extreme measures trying to get these antivaxxer magaheads vaccinated.

Florida definitely requires ID, can't have those pesky illegals getting vaccinated!

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 30, 2021, 09:41:46 AM

Israel is a good country to watch, because their population over the age of 16 are about 80% vaccinated. Are there any other countries with this high vaccination rate?

The UK is up there - along with a few others.  About 85% of adults have had the first dose and we're getting there with second doses - over 60% I think?

UK is definitely one to watch at moment.  We’ve got a decent vaccination rate, but also a major surge in delta variant, which is now dominant (and would have been avoidable if our dumbass leader hadn’t ignored the situation because he wanted a trade deal with India).

It’s now a race between getting everyone fully vaccinated and the new wave, and seeing how much hospitalizations and deaths climb with increased cases. 

I guess “global Britain” is at least useful to the world as lab rats.  You’re welcome.

UK is definitely one to watch at moment.  We’ve got a decent vaccination rate, but also a major surge in delta variant, which is now dominant (and would have been avoidable if our dumbass leader hadn’t ignored the situation because he wanted a trade deal with India).

It’s now a race between getting everyone fully vaccinated and the new wave, and seeing how much hospitalizations and deaths climb with increased cases. 

Indeed.  Though mortality and hospitilisation are running at very low levels, despite the surge in infections.  So it is working so far...

I just want France to go on the "Green list" so I can book my holidays!

Indeed.  Though mortality and hospitilisation are running at very low levels, despite the surge in infections.  So it is working so far...

I just want France to go on the "Green list" so I can book my holidays!

I think it’s more of case of the UK being on everyone else’s red list now.

Cases rocketing up and hospitals starting to cancel appointments, yet “Freedom day” confirmed as if everything is under control and England are through to the final.

We’re heading for another Great British Clusterfuck aren’t we?

Maybe, hospitalisations are still low...but maybe won't be.

Still on amber for France...I'm double jabbed so will just need a PCR test to go.    Hope it stays that way, as we've booked now!

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 03, 2021, 04:31:26 AM

Indeed.  Though mortality and hospitilisation are running at very low levels, despite the surge in infections.  So it is working so far...

I just want France to go on the "Green list" so I can book my holidays!

I think it’s more of case of the UK being on everyone else’s red list now.

Cases rocketing up and hospitals starting to cancel appointments, yet “Freedom day” confirmed as if everything is under control and England are through to the final.

We’re heading for another Great British Clusterfuck aren’t we?

Freedom day is basically saying we ve done all we can.
If you get it you get it.
Which i have no problem with btw.
Thanos ftw!

The world will have to give up being so covid phobic eventually. Sooner rather than later. Too late and you've just screwed your economies and ruined the livelihoods of millions of people for nothing. You dont need to throw in the towel, just sensible measures to reduce the spread

Vaccinated people have already shown that they dont require hospitalisation compared to unvaccinated people. We detect the disease in vaccinated people because we are testing all the time. Despite being vaccinated for whooping cough, if I were working with infected people coughing all over me and then get a test, I'd probably show a positive result for whooping cough too.

Basically almost everyone in the state of NSW here who would have been at serious risk of dying or ending up in hospital has been vaccinated already (or at least had the option to). Yet another lockdown in progress ruining lives. When someones business permanently closes or someone loses their house because they lost their job and couldn't afford the mortgage that impact for that family will last generations. Enough is enough

The world will have to give up being so covid phobic eventually. Sooner rather than later. Too late and you've just screwed your economies and ruined the livelihoods of millions of people for nothing. You dont need to throw in the towel, just sensible measures to reduce the spread

Vaccinated people have already shown that they dont require hospitalisation compared to unvaccinated people. We detect the disease in vaccinated people because we are testing all the time. Despite being vaccinated for whooping cough, if I were working with infected people coughing all over me and then get a test, I'd probably show a positive result for whooping cough too.

Basically almost everyone in the state of NSW here who would have been at serious risk of dying or ending up in hospital has been vaccinated already (or at least had the option to). Yet another lockdown in progress ruining lives. When someones business permanently closes or someone loses their house because they lost their job and couldn't afford the mortgage that impact for that family will last generations. Enough is enough

This is all so wrong it's scary, and is why we are headed to another deadly spike.

Being vaccinated does NOT mean you are immune!  Being concerned about a deadly pandemic is not being phobic.  People are still dying INCLUDING fully vaccinated people without underlying conditions. The new variants are highly transmissible and are much more lethal.

Lockdowns don't ruin lives. Dying does.

"Of two guests from India, one was a man without any comorbidities, and one was a woman with diabetes. They both received the 2nd dose of Covaxin (BBV152) 10 days before traveling to the wedding venue. Moreover, they tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 before boarding the flight.

Soon after developing symptoms including fatigue, cough, and fever, both guests from India tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection. At day 6 post-wedding, the man without comorbidity was admitted to a hospital because of worsening symptoms. One month after the wedding, he died due to COVID-19 related complications."

There are more and more reports of fully vaccinated people catching, and dying from the new strains. It's like 2020 all over again, people complaining about lockdowns and saying it's not a big deal... panicking over nothing. But the economy!

Remember what happened last time when we ignored it. You are NOT immune, you can still catch this and die.

Stay safe.

Maybe, hospitalisations are still low...but maybe won't be.

Still on amber for France...I'm double jabbed so will just need a PCR test to go.    Hope it stays that way, as we've booked now!

Get a beer with Heiwa.

Quote from: Shifter on July 08, 2021, 03:55:06 AM

The world will have to give up being so covid phobic eventually. Sooner rather than later. Too late and you've just screwed your economies and ruined the livelihoods of millions of people for nothing. You dont need to throw in the towel, just sensible measures to reduce the spread

Vaccinated people have already shown that they dont require hospitalisation compared to unvaccinated people. We detect the disease in vaccinated people because we are testing all the time. Despite being vaccinated for whooping cough, if I were working with infected people coughing all over me and then get a test, I'd probably show a positive result for whooping cough too.

Basically almost everyone in the state of NSW here who would have been at serious risk of dying or ending up in hospital has been vaccinated already (or at least had the option to). Yet another lockdown in progress ruining lives. When someones business permanently closes or someone loses their house because they lost their job and couldn't afford the mortgage that impact for that family will last generations. Enough is enough

This is all so wrong it's scary, and is why we are headed to another deadly spike.

Being vaccinated does NOT mean you are immune!  Being concerned about a deadly pandemic is not being phobic.  People are still dying INCLUDING fully vaccinated people without underlying conditions. The new variants are highly transmissible and are much more lethal.

Lockdowns don't ruin lives. Dying does.

"Of two guests from India, one was a man without any comorbidities, and one was a woman with diabetes. They both received the 2nd dose of Covaxin (BBV152) 10 days before traveling to the wedding venue. Moreover, they tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 before boarding the flight.

Soon after developing symptoms including fatigue, cough, and fever, both guests from India tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection. At day 6 post-wedding, the man without comorbidity was admitted to a hospital because of worsening symptoms. One month after the wedding, he died due to COVID-19 related complications."

There are more and more reports of fully vaccinated people catching, and dying from the new strains. It's like 2020 all over again, people complaining about lockdowns and saying it's not a big deal... panicking over nothing. But the economy!

Remember what happened last time when we ignored it. You are NOT immune, you can still catch this and die.

Stay safe.

Where did I say being vaccinated makes me immune? I literally said I would test positive after a vaccination even with a tried and tested whooping cough vaccine. WTF are you reading?

It makes the chances of me getting seriously sick or dying far far less. The world IS going to have to move on to a plan with living with covid. That is a fact and we cant stay covid phobic forever (admittedly unvaccinated, I am covid phobic!). Once the world has the vaccine available to anyone who wants it, we have to move on with life and treat covid like we would the flu. That's just how it is. Getting vaccinated against the flu was never a guarantee you wouldn't get infected or sick with it either. We didn't shut the world down because of it

The economy is indirectly tied to peoples health, wellbeing, happiness and livelihoods and should not be ignored indefinitely. How many years do you think countries can stay locked down. Thousands of businesses in Australia have folded, people are suicidal and have suicided, families/marriages have broken down, jobs lost, houses lost and the government has gone into a mountain of debt that even my toddlers future grandchildren will still be paying off.

How long do you expect people to endure this for? 5 years? 10? Indefinitely?

People are going to die. Even vaccinated ones. Same thing happens with Influenza every year. The difference is, they wont be dropping like flies in their thousands or hundreds of thousands. America was having 3-4K die every day at the peak. How much are dying now? In one of your worse flu seasons a few years ago you had 80K die in the year. No fucks were given. Every year 500K to 1 million die of the flu around the world despite vaccinations. Again, no fucks given

Then there is entirely preventable diseases or famine killing millions of people every year. No fucks given there either.

Once covid vaccines are in full steam, any unvaccinated person who gets sick and dies and chose not to take up the vaccine - I can tell you there wont be a fuck given from me. Should we lock down the worlds economy because ant  vaxxers dont take up the vaccine and keep covid alive and kicking?

Countries need a plan to deal and live with covid. It's as simple as that.

This is all so wrong it's scary, and is why we are headed to another deadly spike.

Being vaccinated does NOT mean you are immune! 

No, but it vastly decreases your chance of hospitalisation and death.

Lockdowns don't ruin lives. Dying does.

Oh common, you can trot out these inane aphorisms but things are a lot more more complicated in real life.  Lockdowns undoubtedly ruin some lives, but they are still, of course, worth doing to a point.  But that point isn't zero deaths or harm.  We compromise on everything else and we will compromise on this.

1.2 million people die every year from auto accidents.  Many more have their life ruined (and many many more have their quality of life degraded by associated pollution), but I don't see you (or anyone else) calling for a lockdown on automobiles.

I mean 8 million a year die from smoking and that's available from your local corner shop.

"Of two guests from India, one was a man without any comorbidities, and one was a woman with diabetes. They both received the 2nd dose of Covaxin (BBV152) 10 days before traveling to the wedding venue. Moreover, they tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 before boarding the flight.

Soon after developing symptoms including fatigue, cough, and fever, both guests from India tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection. At day 6 post-wedding, the man without comorbidity was admitted to a hospital because of worsening symptoms. One month after the wedding, he died due to COVID-19 related complications."

I've no idea what you want us to do with this anecdote?

There are more and more reports of fully vaccinated people catching, and dying from the new strains. It's like 2020 all over again, people complaining about lockdowns and saying it's not a big deal... panicking over nothing. But the economy!

OK, so what is your criteria for opening societies back up again?