nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

Here is my uninformed opinion,  feel free to put it with all the other uninformed opinions...

When the Australian Government called for an enquiry into the origins of Covid-19,  the Chinese responded with furious rhetoric and slapped Australian products with crippling import duties,  then proceeded to slander Australians generally in their social media and all sorts of crazy over the top propaganda.

Why?

Seems to me they are overly defensive about the origins of Covid-19,  attacking anyone and everyone who tries to get information.

They also tried in the early stages to cover it up, and persecuted journalists and doctors who tried to raise the alarm.   I guess nobody likes bad news.

My conclusion is that the Chinese Government is still in cover-up mode.  But rather than covering up evil intent, they are covering up incompetance.

 

Here is my uninformed opinion,  feel free to put it with all the other uninformed opinions...

When the Australian Government called for an enquiry into the origins of Covid-19,  the Chinese responded with furious rhetoric and slapped Australian products with crippling import duties,  then proceeded to slander Australians generally in their social media and all sorts of crazy over the top propaganda.

Why?

Seems to me they are overly defensive about the origins of Covid-19,  attacking anyone and everyone who tries to get information.

They also tried in the early stages to cover it up, and persecuted journalists and doctors who tried to raise the alarm.   I guess nobody likes bad news.

My conclusion is that the Chinese Government is still in cover-up mode.  But rather than covering up evil intent, they are covering up incompetance.

You do have to take into account the different culture in how they handle things. A lot of shit said is geared for it's 'home audience', it's not for us. Chinese are pretty particular about their 'face' (ironically their behaviour is doing the exact opposite which is why Xi Jinping seeing the world opinion of China crash is trying to reign in his 'wolf warrior 'diplomats'). The CCP's face has a pretty thin veneer so any slight against them cuts pretty deep

I think all sides in this whole saga could have handled this way better. When Australian (and others) were calling for an inquiry into the origins of the pandemic, the language and intent was pretty clear it was just wordplay for 'we want to point the finger at the Chinese for this'. Our morally and empathy bankrupt PM should simply keep his mouth shut and leave the talking to diplomats who know how to handle the Chinese with tact and dignity. How you talk to or handle one country may be completely different to how you go about with another country.

When they called for an inquiry, rather than say the focus should be on/in China they should have (even if just for wordplay) say they leave nothing to chance and want to investigate the possibility it could have even started elsewhere but noting China was simply the first to report it (even if you begrudgingly give them a pat on the back for the eventual reporting). One thing you dont want to do is make China double down on secrecy going forward because they have learnt that being the first country to report an outbreak only leads to that country looking like a villain


Saying you need to know the origins going forward to prepare and equip yourselves better for a possible future pandemic is rubbish. We know it started by a handful of theories. Wild animal to human through wet markets - OK, ban 'wet markets' in the future and also take the possible animals that started it all off every single food menu (such as bats and pangolins)

Maybe started in a lab through an accidental leak? OK, going forward tighten every single SoPs and infrastructure going forward.

These are the 2 dominate theories and the investigation seems to focus on really finding out which one this was. So, just do both. Wet markets are shitty and unnecessary anyway, banning them whether covid started like this or not will vastly reduce the risk to humans going forward. If covid didn't start this way, given time, something will. Bats a friggen nasty. Imagine a lyssavirus like rabies but airborne like covid. Enough to make even the hardest repugnican put on a mask!

And every lab could probably get a good work over to tighten security and controls around them.

If you think about it, it's not a very good bioweapon.

If the purpose was to cause global panic, lockdowns, and worldwide economic instability, then it could be argued it was an extremely good bioweapon.

Quote from: Shifter on June 24, 2021, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 11:06:52 AM

Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist. He thinks the lab leak theory is credible.

Lab leak doesn't have to mean it was deliberate or engineered. Besides, we know it wasn't engineered and honestly I dont think China is stupid enough to release a highly contagious air borne virus. Well, on purpose

To be fair I haven't seen proof that it was or wasn't. And I wouldn't know how to judge that proof. Obviously it wasn't malicious. You wouldn't engineer a virus and hit your own people with it and not have a good vaccine for it.

Yes, of course! The CCP has such a wonderful 100 year track record of maintaining good relationships with their citizenry.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 24, 2021, 10:15:27 PM

Quote from: Crouton on June 24, 2021, 11:29:10 AM

The media is not in charge of investigating . . .

Then what is their purpose?
To print or broadcast official government propaganda without question?

Let me rephrase that.  The media does not have the authority or the expertise to kick down the door to a high security medical research facility in another country for the purposes of determining the origins of the disease.

I agree the media doesn't have the power to kick down any doors, but I am annoyed when all the media on the left follow the same narrative, and censor information that deviates from the message. Then it's the media on the right who end up covering the information and they do a really good job of making the information look like a ridiculous conspiracy theory with their hyperbolic news delivery.

Even after this came out https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6258639874001  the msm in the US are still posting articles doubting the possibility of a lab leak. I don't know if it was a lab leak, I don't want our media to make it seem like it was, but by continuing to stick to the narrative that it couldn't be a lab leak, they're making it look more like a coverup. Accidents happen in labs all the time, I don't think the Chinese purposely let this virus escape. If this lab was in the US no one would have a problem discussing the possibility that it leaked.

Quote from: Crouton on June 24, 2021, 11:31:03 AM

Quote from: Shifter on June 24, 2021, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 11:06:52 AM

Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist. He thinks the lab leak theory is credible.

Lab leak doesn't have to mean it was deliberate or engineered. Besides, we know it wasn't engineered and honestly I dont think China is stupid enough to release a highly contagious air borne virus. Well, on purpose

To be fair I haven't seen proof that it was or wasn't. And I wouldn't know how to judge that proof. Obviously it wasn't malicious. You wouldn't engineer a virus and hit your own people with it and not have a good vaccine for it.

Yes, of course! The CCP has such a wonderful 100 year track record of maintaining good relationships with their citizenry.

I think you will find they have not been in charge for 100 years.

Edit: they were founded 100 years ago but not in charge that long.

Okay.  Here's the summary;

Ivermectin is a miracle drug that can not only protect against covid as well as any vaccine but can also cure the symptoms of any currently suffering from it. 

The vaccines are dangerous but Ivermectin is safe and well tested.  The vaccines cause long term harm but fortunately Ivermectin can alleviate that harm.

Since Ivermectin is out of patent, all the governments of the world are suppressing it because they want to make a few pharmaceutical companies rich.

Most of the progress in countries like India are due to a secret campaign of using Ivermectin that they've effectively hidden from the MSM.

Very little talk about the lab leak theory.

I get the impression that Weinstein is in trouble more for antivax propaganda than promoting Ivermectin.

So there it is.  It seem about as plausible as Bigfoot.  But maybe I'm wrong.

He's not anti vaccine, though. Also, he doesn't think India is hiding anything from the msm, he thinks the msm isn't covering it.

Nah  whatever they gave trump is rhe secret.
Fat 70+   how did he not die?

Was iverm part of his cocktail and they just secretly gave him?

Well strangely in her case, shes got the sore arm but is yet to get the dose. That Pfizer sure is something!

Have you stopped punching your wife in the arm yet?

https://theconversation.com/ivermectin-why-a-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-for-use-157904

This is maybe one of the more objection articles on Ivermectin.  It seems like hydroxychloroquine2.0.  It seemed promising for the same reasons.

Apparently interest in this drug for use against covid isn't new.  They started trials in April of 2020, one of them was even in India.  But much like hydroxychloroquine it just didn't seem to have much of an effect.

Also in general Weinstein isn't an antivaxxer but in this interview in regards to covid vaccine it really seems like he is.

If it's not Ivermectin, then I wonder what part of Dr Varon's covid treatment is making him have the results he has.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/90552

I believe he probably does.  It's a long article.  Haven't read the entire thing yet.  From the viewpoint of someone who is just trying to heal people I can't fault him.  If I was seriously ill with covid then I'd want a physician that throws the kitchen sink at me which seems to be the approach he uses.

I don't think Ivermectin has been quite ruled out as an effective treatment.  It's just that the evidence isn't great.

From the perspective of advocating treatment though, pushing Ivermectin while casting doubt on vaccines seems deeply irresponsible to me.  I don't know if Varon does that but Weinstein definitely does.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/meet-the-censored-bret-weinstein

TK: Tech company executives have consistently said they intervene on this subject only for safety reasons, to prevent misleading information that might cause someone to avoid a lifesaving treatment. What is your answer to that? Are you an anti-vaxxer? Could a reasonable person infer from your broadcasts that you're recommending that adults not get vaccinated?

Weinstein: We are biologists engaging material that is inherently evolutionary. Our upcoming book is on the problem caused by the interface of people with novel technology for which we are not evolutionarily prepared. No one is trained in even a majority of the disciplines relevant to the COVID Pandemic. Virologists aren’t clinicians, aren’t epidemiologists, aren’t evolutionary biologists, aren’t pharmacologists, aren’t data scientists. We state repeatedly that we are not medical doctors and are not making recommendations, but we are sharing our view of scientific material that we are qualified to analyze.

It is true that some may become hesitant about the Covid vaccines from our discussions. That may cost lives, as we have taken pains to point out repeatedly. We also surely save lives. For example, it is especially likely that DarkHorse viewers who have had COVID would skip being vaccinated, greatly reducing their risk of adverse reactions without increasing their risk of future COVID.

The question is one of net effect. We have been way ahead of official guidance throughout the pandemic, and we have been very sharp in our criticism of those who have treated SARS-CoV2 casually. We have clearly sobered many up about the issue. Our refrain has been that although the case fatality rate from COVID is moderate, the damage to the body from a case of COVID—even if mild—is often substantial and likely implies reduced longevity. And we have given prescient advice on prevention. We were extremely early in recognizing that conducting business outside, opening windows (especially in cars), keeping conversation with strangers brief, wearing masks, removing masks outside, spending time in the sun, supplementing with vitamin-D, all have protective effects.

The best defense of what we have done on DarkHorse is simply to compare our prevention model with the official guidance. It is the low quality and slow improvement in the official model that constitutes the greatest danger. It takes far too long for official guidance to catch up to the evidence.

As to the questions of whether we are vaccinated and/or would get vaccinated again: we (and our children) are more fully vaccinated than most people, in part due to the exposures that our (former) jobs as tropical biologists gave us. We are, for instance, vaccinated against yellow fever, typhoid, and rabies. We are not vaccinated against Covid, and do not intend to get vaccinated against Covid (unless, perhaps, a traditional vaccine were to be produced).

No, Varon doesn't advocate against vaccines. He avoids ventilators, and I remember him saying he gives patients zinc and ivermectin. I don't remember what else without watching the video again. There are hundreds of articles in the regular press about him, he's the one who has worked 300 and something days without a day off. The media love him, but they always edit out the part where he is having much better results, and they edit out any mention of ivermectin.

Also, Youtube has sent Tim Pool an official statement re how he is allowed to discuss the Oxford study of Ivermectin https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1408454411123363845?s=20  He's allowed to talk about it, but he has to give equal or greater weight to the FDA's guidelines.

Well looks like the Australian government's 'we don't need  dedicated quarantine facilities. She' ll be right! attitude is coming to bite us on the arse, hard

Add to our snails pace vaccine rollout bungle and we'll be the next Ameritard thanks to the mutated delta strain unleashed upon us

Gone are the days where it was only a worry if you had 15 minutes of face to face contact within 1.5m!

We had an app to track this metric. Flucken waste of millions of dollars. Now you only need to brush past them in a fleeting moment and you're a good chance to catch it

Covid clouds everywhere lol

Woo-hoo! The American strategy of being as incompetent as we are rich pays off again!

If it's not Ivermectin, then I wonder what part of Dr Varon's covid treatment is making him have the results he has.

Vitamin C (and to a lesser extent D)

However, varon is "throwing the kitchen sink" at it, and there is undoubtedly synergism that is novel/unknown with all the things in the cocktail.

What we learned from HIV, was that single prong chemical treatments were not effective.  Unfortunately, covid has disturbing things in common with HIV - which is likely ALSO not coincidence.

Probably not, as they are both viruses.

And, YOU didn’t learn a damn thing, the scientists did by doing science rather than woo medicine made up on the fly because you are a free thinker.

Unfortunately, covid has disturbing things in common with HIV - which is likely ALSO not coincidence.

Aside from they are both viruses, what are these things they have in common~?

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/covid-19/index.html

https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/110141.php




didn't somone say the australians had a vaccine they had to bail on because it caused issues with HIV testing?
i'm not positive... i'm HIV positive.

I'm not really sure what your point is?

Kabool, the vaccine isn't the virus. COVID isn't causing false HIV positives as far as I've heard, so "leads to likely positive HIV tests" is not a commonality that COVID and HIV share.

"Causing people to type a string of 3 or more capital letters in a row" on the other hand, is a commonality that they share. I hadn't considered that until just now.

my comment was to bridge the vague comment by jack454544454545445.
i understand vaccines aren't the virus (well some are but that's a different story than what we're talking about).
i'm talking about shifter or someone had brought this up months ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55269381

I believe they used part of HIV to carry the vaccine or something to stimulate the immune system. Lots of vaccines do this technique

Unfortunately the bits of HIV used was enough to fool an HIV test into a positive response

Well now all of Australia can get a vaccine as long as its the astrazeneca vaccine the government only a week ago said was done and phasing out. Way to inspire confidence

Given how active, mobile and employed younger people are, we should never have been restricted from a vaccine. Especially when there were literally millions of doses lying around just 'waiting'

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1408779614114172929?s=20

About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer  vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures

Oh, that's not good.

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1408779614114172929?s=20

Quote

About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer  vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures

Oh, that's not good.

The test is whether or not they get sick enough for hospital or die

Because people are too precious to isolate for a few weeks all at once, covid is something we'll end up having to live with. Vaccinations, still protect you even if you 'catch' it

From what I can see, Singapore has a plan to live with a covid world. Countries like Australia have no plan. Even if 100% of us were vaccinated, we'll still be strangling our economy and livelihoods and forbidden to travel overseas or accept international visitors like before. Utterly stupid

For the economy!

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1408779614114172929?s=20

Quote

About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer  vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures

Oh, that's not good.

Being vaccinated does not mean you can't get Covid,  it just means you have been equipped with the weapons to fight it.

Also doesn't mean you will win the fight either,  you could still die,  but the chances of dying or being hospitalized are greatly reduced.

The media will continue to play on stories like this,  exploiting peoples ignorance about how vaccines work.

Journalists should be pointing out newsworthy information about successes and failures of the individual vaccines. The media takes a lot of shit, most of it well earned, but I think reporting that Pfizer recipients may be more vulnerable to getting infected with the Delta variant than people that got one of the other vaccines is the right thing for them to be doing. Is it alarming? Yes. But it doesn't seem to be alarming for the sake of being alarmist.

Journalists should be pointing out newsworthy information about successes and failures of the individual vaccines. The media takes a lot of shit, most of it well earned, but I think reporting that Pfizer recipients may be more vulnerable to getting infected with the Delta variant than people that got one of the other vaccines is the right thing for them to be doing. Is it alarming? Yes. But it doesn't seem to be alarming for the sake of being alarmist.

You watch when the media starts reporting on all the people dying from covid who were vaccinated - because in some countries you have almost the entire population vaccinated, you will still get the odd person who dies from it. But they will blow it up like it's a big deal

What they wont report is the vastly reduced amount of hospitalizations and deaths. Especially for old or immuno compromised/vulnerable people where catching covid was a literal roll of the dice as to whether you will survive, being vaccinated means you might have the chance of a fit 20-30 year old. The chance of death is never zero and that goes for all vaccines. An unvaccinated population could see hundreds to thousands of deaths every day. A fully vaccinated population of a few dozen million might only see single digit deaths a day. To hell with the media and their stupid fear campaigns.