nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1770 on: July 20, 2020, 08:44:00 AM »
Stop trolling you fucking retard.
The results of the studies are very clear!

Cloth masks do not prevent the spread of Covid-19!
The paper does not state that at all.
Stop trolling you fucking retard.
I am not trolling and you are using abusive language outside of AR/CN.

Please stop it.

Cloth masks do not prevent the spread of Covid-19.

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1771 on: July 20, 2020, 08:48:11 AM »
Stop trolling you fucking retard.
The results of the studies are very clear!

Cloth masks do not prevent the spread of Covid-19!
Cloth masks are not intended to prevent the spread of Covid-19.

Cloth masks are intended to slow the spread of Covid-19.

Why is that difference so hard for you to comprehend?
They don't slow the spread.

There is no evidence to indicate they slow the spread.
I don't know about that.  Masking seems to have helped slow the spread in states like New York.
So, the state with the highest number of cases and deaths, according to reports, is the state you want to offer as evidence that masks help slow the the spread...

That is very funny.
Why do you think that covid is spreading like wildfire in most of the rest of the country?  Not enough hand washing?
I think it is "spreading," because the tests are faulty do not necessarily actually indicate Covid - 19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-overview.html

"A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that causes the common cold."

So, all those positive tests are probably something like a common cold.

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1772 on: July 20, 2020, 08:51:54 AM »
Cloth masks do not prevent the spread of Covid-19.
*ahem*
There is a significant decline in daily COVID-19 growth rate after mandating facial covers in public, with the effect increasing over time after signing the order. Specifically, the daily case rate declines by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage-points within 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, and 16–20, and 21+ days after signing, respectively. All of these declines are statistically significant (p<0.05, or less). In contrast, the pre-trends in COVID-19 case growth rates are small and statistically insignificant.

We also project the number of averted COVID-19 cases with the mandates for face mask use in public by comparing actual cumulative daily cases to daily cases predicted by the model if none of the states had enacted the public face cover mandate at the time they did (see details in appendix B).19 The main model estimates suggest that as many as 230,000–450,000 cases may have been averted due to these mandates by May 22. Estimates of averted cases should be viewed cautiously and only as general approximations.

And...

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 08:54:39 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1773 on: July 20, 2020, 08:53:42 AM »
Stop trolling you fucking retard.
The results of the studies are very clear!

Cloth masks do not prevent the spread of Covid-19!
The paper does not state that at all.
Stop trolling you fucking retard.
I am not trolling and you are using abusive language outside of AR/CN.

Please stop it.

Cloth masks do not prevent the spread of Covid-19.
Wrong.
Also as long as you are trolling in middle forums I'll keep calling you fucking retard.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1774 on: July 20, 2020, 08:58:11 AM »
Cloth masks do not prevent the spread of Covid-19.
*ahem*
There is a significant decline in daily COVID-19 growth rate after mandating facial covers in public, with the effect increasing over time after signing the order. Specifically, the daily case rate declines by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage-points within 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, and 16–20, and 21+ days after signing, respectively. All of these declines are statistically significant (p<0.05, or less). In contrast, the pre-trends in COVID-19 case growth rates are small and statistically insignificant.

We also project the number of averted COVID-19 cases with the mandates for face mask use in public by comparing actual cumulative daily cases to daily cases predicted by the model if none of the states had enacted the public face cover mandate at the time they did (see details in appendix B).19 The main model estimates suggest that as many as 230,000–450,000 cases may have been averted due to these mandates by May 22. Estimates of averted cases should be viewed cautiously and only as general approximations.
"Estimates" = reality?

In your diaper, perhaps?

Get real, penguin.

First Fact - the antibody testing mentioned in the article that you provide is coming up positive for Covid-19, even if if it isn't actually Covid - 19, according to the CDC.

B Fact - an estimate = a guess.

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1775 on: July 20, 2020, 09:18:26 AM »
The real world is not a controlled environment, so I wouldn't expect controlled environment tests to mean too much in the real world.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1776 on: July 20, 2020, 09:22:33 AM »
The real world is not a controlled environment, so I wouldn't expect controlled environment tests to mean too much in the real world.
Correct. And that is why your offered source on masks is useless from the get go.

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1777 on: July 20, 2020, 09:25:09 AM »
The real world is not a controlled environment, so I wouldn't expect controlled environment tests to mean too much in the real world.
Correct. And that is why your offered source on masks is useless from the get go.
Incorrect.  My source was gathering data from the real world, not just controlled lab experiments.

Also:
The bottom line is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will be of benefit.

“The concept is risk reduction rather than absolute prevention,” said Chin-Hong. “You don’t throw up your hands if you think a mask is not 100 percent effective. That’s silly. Nobody’s taking a cholesterol medicine because they’re going to prevent a heart attack 100 percent of the time, but you’re reducing your risk substantially.”
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 09:37:21 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Lorddave

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1778 on: July 20, 2020, 11:12:52 AM »
Ok, lets test this in a non-scientific (so Lackey approved) way.

Lackey.  Go put on a cloth mask (or pull your underwear over your mouth) and try to blow out a candle.  Tell us if its easier or harder than without.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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sokarul

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1779 on: July 20, 2020, 11:29:48 AM »
Non scientific you say?

A non scientific study but a good example I think.

2 Covid positive hairstylists worked on 150 people. All wore masks. Zero customers contracted Covid.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 11:39:35 AM by sokarul »
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Shifter

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1780 on: July 21, 2020, 02:45:30 AM »
This post here makes a good point. The math might be a little hard for repugnicans though


Quote from: sokarul
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1781 on: July 21, 2020, 04:18:20 AM »
The real world is not a controlled environment, so I wouldn't expect controlled environment tests to mean too much in the real world.
Correct. And that is why your offered source on masks is useless from the get go.
Incorrect.  My source was gathering data from the real world, not just controlled lab experiments.
Real world?

Where did they get their numbers from?

The CDC?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-overview.html

"A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that causes the common cold."
Also:
The bottom line is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will be of benefit.

“The concept is risk reduction rather than absolute prevention,” said Chin-Hong. “You don’t throw up your hands if you think a mask is not 100 percent effective. That’s silly. Nobody’s taking a cholesterol medicine because they’re going to prevent a heart attack 100 percent of the time, but you’re reducing your risk substantially.”
Actually, the WHO provides the following:

"Whether or not masks are used, compliance with hand hygiene, physical distancing and other infection prevention and control (IPC) measures are critical to prevent human-to-human transmission of COVID-19."

Please note, masks are useless, except in environments and operations for which they are beneficial.

Just as Fauci and the Surgeon General stated from the get-go.

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1782 on: July 21, 2020, 04:21:44 AM »
Please note, masks are useless, except in environments and operations for which they are beneficial.

So, to be clear:  masks are useless apart from when they aren't?
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1783 on: July 21, 2020, 04:24:37 AM »
Please note, masks are useless, except in environments and operations for which they are beneficial.

So, to be clear:  masks are useless apart from when they aren't?
That is the evidence.

Medical staff are advised to NOT WORK when the proper PPE is not available, because cloth masks are inadequate replacements.

Each environment has specific requirements.

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1784 on: July 21, 2020, 05:37:16 AM »
The WHO clearly states that health care workers do not require a mask when in community settings:

"Page 5 Table 1. Type of mask for use by health workers depending on transmission scenario, setting and activity* - "Health worker   Community   Community outreach programs   No mask needed"
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1785 on: July 21, 2020, 06:26:51 AM »
Actually, the WHO provides the following:

"Whether or not masks are used, compliance with hand hygiene, physical distancing and other infection prevention and control (IPC) measures are critical to prevent human-to-human transmission of COVID-19."

Please note, masks are useless, except in environments and operations for which they are beneficial.

Just as Fauci and the Surgeon General stated from the get-go.

*sigh*
From your WHO source:
However, taking into account the available studies evaluating pre- and asymptomatic transmission, a growing compendium of observational evidence on the use of masks by the general public in several countries, individual values and preferences, as well as the difficulty of physical distancing in many contexts, WHO has updated its guidance to advise that to prevent COVID-19 transmission effectively in areas of community transmission, governments should encourage the general public to wear masks in specific situations and settings as part of a comprehensive approach to suppress SARS-CoV-2 transmission (Table 2).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 06:28:22 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1786 on: July 21, 2020, 08:44:41 AM »
Actually, the WHO provides the following:

"Whether or not masks are used, compliance with hand hygiene, physical distancing and other infection prevention and control (IPC) measures are critical to prevent human-to-human transmission of COVID-19."

Please note, masks are useless, except in environments and operations for which they are beneficial.

Just as Fauci and the Surgeon General stated from the get-go.

*sigh*
From your WHO source:
However, taking into account the available studies evaluating pre- and asymptomatic transmission, a growing compendium of observational evidence on the use of masks by the general public in several countries, individual values and preferences, as well as the difficulty of physical distancing in many contexts, WHO has updated its guidance to advise that to prevent COVID-19 transmission effectively in areas of community transmission, governments should encourage the general public to wear masks in specific situations and settings as part of a comprehensive approach to suppress SARS-CoV-2 transmission (Table 2).
Read the table and then try to claim that is day-to-day and all environments.

Cloth masks are useless.

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1787 on: July 21, 2020, 08:56:43 AM »
Polio had a similar fatality rate. And left many of the people that survived it with lifelong health and quality of life issues. And we can pretty much all universally agree that polio was bad. I truly don't understand the whole "it's not that bad, it's just the sniffles, why are people overreacting like this, BLAH BLAH BLAH" because in the context of other diseases, this absolutely fucking rates as one that is bad to a noteworthy degree.

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1788 on: July 21, 2020, 09:00:51 AM »
Read the table and then try to claim that is day-to-day and all environments.

Cloth masks are useless.
Are you looking at Table 1 which concerns healthcare workers or are you looking at Table 2 which deals with the general public?

You do understand that the risks, and therefore the guidance, for healthcare workers and the general public are very different, don't you?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1789 on: July 21, 2020, 09:54:55 AM »
The WHO clearly states that health care workers do not require a mask when in community settings:

"Page 5 Table 1. Type of mask for use by health workers depending on transmission scenario, setting and activity* - "Health worker   Community   Community outreach programs   No mask needed"
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

Wow, you just straight up lied here. Why?

From Page 5 Table 1 you referenced where does it say, "No mask needed"?

It says in the one you referenced:

- Health worker >
- Community >
- Community outreach programs >
- Consider using a medical mask

Nowhere does it say: "No mask needed". Shameful.
We've never really been a single entity.  We're more like a collection of rabid honey badgers stuffed into a 3 piece suit.  It occasionally bears the semblance of a man

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1790 on: July 21, 2020, 09:59:12 AM »
For some odd reason or other Lackey seems to think that the WHO guidance for healthcare workers applies to the general public.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1791 on: July 22, 2020, 03:00:00 AM »
The WHO clearly states that health care workers do not require a mask when in community settings:

"Page 5 Table 1. Type of mask for use by health workers depending on transmission scenario, setting and activity* - "Health worker   Community   Community outreach programs   No mask needed"
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

Wow, you just straight up lied here. Why?

From Page 5 Table 1 you referenced where does it say, "No mask needed"?

It says in the one you referenced:

- Health worker >
- Community >
- Community outreach programs >
- Consider using a medical mask

Nowhere does it say: "No mask needed". Shameful.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

"We know (emphasis mine) that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. (emphasis mine) In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety (emphasis mine) over the pandemic.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 03:52:01 AM by totallackey »

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1792 on: July 22, 2020, 03:06:39 AM »
The WHO clearly states that health care workers do not require a mask when in community settings:

"Page 5 Table 1. Type of mask for use by health workers depending on transmission scenario, setting and activity* - "Health worker   Community   Community outreach programs   No mask needed"
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

Wow, you just straight up lied here. Why?

From Page 5 Table 1 you referenced where does it say, "No mask needed"?

It says in the one you referenced:

- Health worker >
- Community >
- Community outreach programs >
- Consider using a medical mask

Nowhere does it say: "No mask needed". Shameful.
I did not lie.

You cannot read a table.

Page 5 Lists the WHO, then states Health Worker or Care Giver AND Health Worker

Then it states Setting; "Known or suspected community transmission" then below it states "Sporadic transmission or clusters of Covid-19 Cases"

Then it States Activity

Then it provides What type of mask

For the first Health Worker or Care Giver it clearly states "Medical mask use according to standard and transmission-based precautions (risk assessment)"

For the Health Worker it states: No mask needed

It also states: CONSIDER

You lied (as usual) and I don't expect you to stop, so that's okay.

I, on the other hand will continue to post FACTUAL and CLEAR information, regardless of your vain attempts.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 03:53:02 AM by totallackey »

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1793 on: July 22, 2020, 06:34:00 AM »
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

"We know (emphasis mine) that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. (emphasis mine) In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety (emphasis mine) over the pandemic.

From that same source:
Quote
There may be additional benefits to broad masking policies that extend beyond their technical contribution to reducing pathogen transmission. Masks are visible reminders of an otherwise invisible yet widely prevalent pathogen and may remind people of the importance of social distancing and other infection-control measures.


I did not lie.

You cannot read a table.

Page 5 Lists the WHO, then states Health Worker or Care Giver AND Health Worker

And yet you completely ignore Table 2 on page 7 of that document that lays out their guidance for the general public.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1794 on: July 22, 2020, 08:25:13 AM »
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

"We know (emphasis mine) that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. (emphasis mine) In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety (emphasis mine) over the pandemic.

From that same source:
Quote
There may be additional benefits to broad masking policies that extend beyond their technical contribution to reducing pathogen transmission. Masks are visible reminders of an otherwise invisible yet widely prevalent pathogen and may remind people of the importance of social distancing and other infection-control measures.
The operative word being "maybe."

Sounds like the science you want to rely on, right?

When a person writes the words, "WE KNOW," and then tries to float the word, "MAYBE," a few months down the road, I think I will go with the first utterance.
I did not lie.

You cannot read a table.

Page 5 Lists the WHO, then states Health Worker or Care Giver AND Health Worker

And yet you completely ignore Table 2 on page 7 of that document that lays out their guidance for the general public.
As if health care workers come from the planet Vulcan.

Health care workers are recruited from the general public...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 08:40:29 AM by totallackey »

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1795 on: July 22, 2020, 08:55:31 AM »
When a person writes the words, "WE KNOW," and then tries to float the word, "MAYBE," a few months down the road, I think I will go with the first utterance.
So you don't think that the person might have learned things during those few months that may have caused that person to update their opinion?  Or, maybe that the situation is more nuanced than you care to admit.


As if health care workers come from the planet Vulcan.

Health care workers are recruited from the general public...
*sigh*  Healthcare workers work in a much higher risk environment than the general public, therefore their guidance is different than the general public.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Shifter

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1796 on: July 22, 2020, 09:02:43 AM »
When a person writes the words, "WE KNOW," and then tries to float the word, "MAYBE," a few months down the road, I think I will go with the first utterance.

Remember that time you assured us the American death toll wouldn't be more than 60,000. You seemed to know

But a few months later we have more information. Maybe you didn't know everything then and you have more information now. Maybe information in the context of a novel virus pandemic is not so static and that as it turns out we didn't know.

Well do you care to make another prediction as to how many more will die? You are currently at 145K, more than double your original estimate

But hey, America number #1 right? No ones going to take that mantle from you

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boydster

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1797 on: July 22, 2020, 10:08:42 AM »
But hey, America number #1 right? No ones going to take that mantle from you

I am tired of winning.


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Shifter

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1798 on: July 22, 2020, 10:18:53 AM »
But hey, America number #1 right? No ones going to take that mantle from you

I am tired of winning.

I suppose it can get quite lonely at the top. Especially with so many people around you dying. Hope you guys do get some decent leadership next year as it's been largely absent for a number of years

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #1799 on: July 22, 2020, 10:31:07 AM »
But hey, America number #1 right? No ones going to take that mantle from you

I am tired of winning.


Well, to be fair, he never did promise that we would be winning good things.  :-\
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.