nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

Quote from: Stash on February 06, 2022, 03:56:41 PM

I simply hope he's right about this: “Once Omicron peaks, subsequent variants are likely to be even more mild.”

Right? That would be amazing.

Don't know why kabool and Shifter are trying to kick people out of the hospital. lol

One of the enormous benefits the pandemic has brought is that it has allowed certain people to weaponize their self-righteousness.

This has reached the point where they now feel comfortable calling for dying people to be thrown out of hospitals.  This clearly represents a significant improvement for society. 

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 06, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

Quote from: Stash on February 06, 2022, 03:56:41 PM

I simply hope he's right about this: “Once Omicron peaks, subsequent variants are likely to be even more mild.”

Right? That would be amazing.

Don't know why kabool and Shifter are trying to kick people out of the hospital. lol

One of the enormous benefits the pandemic has brought is that it has allowed certain people to weaponize their self-righteousness.

This has reached the point where they now feel comfortable calling for dying people to be thrown out of hospitals.  This clearly represents a significant improvement for society.

Everyone is paying the price for the stubbornness of anti vaxxers

These people have made a life choice to not get vaccinated. However ordinary people who do the right thing by themselves and the community have to continue suffering to cater for antvaxxers BS ideology

Triage is a bitch. Always has been. Antivaxxers however are making the choice and are putting themselves in harms way

A vaccine also costs the state a few dollars. Treating someone suffering an entire preventable severe case of covid can blow out to hundreds of thousands. Every tax payer has to pay for this. So yeah, tax payers have a right to feel miffed about the staggering cost to accommodate some selfish anti vaxxer moron. Do I want them dead? No. I dont want them to even be in a position to require a hospital in the first place.

People are dying waiting for ambulances that come hours too late. Peoples surgeries are being put on hold indefinitely. Cancer patients unable to get treatment. Cancer screening (eg breast cancer) not being done which may delay for some a positive diagnosis and delayed treatment. Couples are unable to do their IVF procedures which may for some completely put an end to their dreams of becoming parents. And the list goes on and on.

So yes. When people are flabbergasted why vaccinated people are annoyed at selfish antivaxxers - that and a whole lot more is why. Their selfishness is affecting everyone. Vaccinated or not.

To be part of a society is a social contract. And vaccination is part of that. You cant have it all ways. Be a part of society and enjoy its benefits or leave and be left to your own devices.

https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2021/09/14/1383790/covid-19-is-getting-vaccinated-really-part-of-the-social-contract

Social contract arguments against vaccination

There are two main social contract arguments against vaccination. The first is that it infringes the freedom owed to me by society.

The recent anti-vax and anti-lockdown protests in Sydney and Melbourne were billed as “Freedom rallies”, with banners proclaiming “We don’t need ur vax we want our freedom”, “Emergency SOS: Free Australia” and “Freedom not fear”.

So is it an exercise of freedom not to get vaccinated?

Social contract theory teaches us to distinguish between two different types of freedom. My freedom to murder you is unreservedly taken from me under Australian law, as is my freedom to walk out of David Jones with a laptop for which I haven’t paid. But these same laws that limit my freedom to do whatever I want also increase the freedom of us all to live our lives with a reduced fear of getting murdered, and of shop owners to run a business.

When we live in society we give up our “natural freedom” to do whatever we like, and we gain a new “civil freedom” to enjoy the benefits of common life. Getting vaccinated enhances our civil freedom.

As for our natural freedom, we left that behind when we decided that life together was better than going it alone in the forest. Natural freedom is about my good and my interest; civil freedom is about the common good and the common interest.

The second prominent argument against vaccination goes like this: “Show me when I signed the social contract, and I’ll obey it.”

It’s the principle of consent – I shouldn’t be expected to do things I haven’t explicitly agreed to.

But is that right?

You didn’t consent to be born, and you didn’t sign your own birth certificate, but now that you’re born you should still respect other people.

In the same way, we’re all members of a particular society. None of us asked to be. We may not like it. We may think it’s broken and we may want to change it, but as long as we continue to enjoy its benefits, we have a responsibility to uphold the mutual trust that keeps it – and us – together.
What does social contract language add to the current vaccine debate?

It foregrounds the truth that our society runs on the fuel of trust, not simply laws. It also shows that vaccination isn’t an isolated issue. We all accept the principles of the social contract every time we keep away from people when we have a cold, or when we don’t barge in at the front of a queue.

Those same principles are obtained in the vaccine debate. It’s not fundamentally about vaccines. It’s about living together, and what we owe each other. It’s about the social contract.

My government tests have shipped and they are supposed to arrive by Thursday

My government tests have shipped and they are supposed to arrive by Thursday

Gee, I already got a stash of 8 of them at home already for free given by my kids school. Another 4 next week and another 4 the week after. And I thought Australia messed up getting supplies of the RATs

Quote from: boydster on February 07, 2022, 05:45:50 AM

My government tests have shipped and they are supposed to arrive by Thursday

Gee, I already got a stash of 8 of them at home already for free given by my kids school. Another 4 next week and another 4 the week after. And I thought Australia messed up getting supplies of the RATs

Well I get 4 for free for my whole family, it gets sent out once and once only. So IN YOUR FACE! Or something.... Yeah.

These people have made a life choice to not get vaccinated. However ordinary people who do the right thing by themselves and the community have to continue suffering to cater for antvaxxers BS ideology

Written with absolutely no evidence to support the statement.

Go ahead, specifically state how people who are vaxxed are suffering because of people who are unvaxxed.

Your asinine trope is just the crap BLM morons promote. Bunch of stupidity about "racist this..." and "racist that..."  without ever actually pointing out racist behavior.

shifter, just save the time of all the bs and simply write, "I like to promote bs."

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on February 07, 2022, 02:29:43 AM

These people have made a life choice to not get vaccinated. However ordinary people who do the right thing by themselves and the community have to continue suffering to cater for antvaxxers BS ideology

Written with absolutely no evidence to support the statement.

Go ahead, specifically state how people who are vaxxed are suffering because of people who are unvaxxed.

Your asinine trope is just the crap BLM morons promote. Bunch of stupidity about "racist this..." and "racist that..."  without ever actually pointing out racist behavior.

shifter, just save the time of all the bs and simply write, "I like to promote bs."

Oh look. The sovereign dumbarse who thinks things are as he says because he says it

Who the F is shifter?

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 06, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

Quote from: Stash on February 06, 2022, 03:56:41 PM

I simply hope he's right about this: “Once Omicron peaks, subsequent variants are likely to be even more mild.”

Right? That would be amazing.

Don't know why kabool and Shifter are trying to kick people out of the hospital. lol

One of the enormous benefits the pandemic has brought is that it has allowed certain people to weaponize their self-righteousness.

This has reached the point where they now feel comfortable calling for dying people to be thrown out of hospitals.  This clearly represents a significant improvement for society.

It's been amazing to me to watch the "be kind" people become so vicious. (not talking about Shifter, he's always been vicious  )

Yeah I had someone call me a snob.

Quote from: Masalang the Torpedo on February 07, 2022, 02:29:43 AM

These people have made a life choice to not get vaccinated. However ordinary people who do the right thing by themselves and the community have to continue suffering to cater for antvaxxers BS ideology

Written with absolutely no evidence to support the statement.

Go ahead, specifically state how people who are vaxxed are suffering because of people who are unvaxxed.

specifically, officials who feel the need to keep lockdowns and hospital space for the unvaxed.

so it's hurting business and it's hurting people who need normal hospital services.

The majority of people have always been horrible at assessing risk.  Ideally we'd all respect our institutions enough to trust their assessment.  And ideally those institutions would be untainted by politics.

The CDC is playing it safe, probably too safe.  I think they want to avoid embarrassment if another variant comes up.  I think it makes more sense to look at a variant like it's a new pandemic. 

Looking at all these trends I think we're coming out of this.  I think we need to protect the vulnerable obviously.  Other than that I think it's time to get back to normal.  I'm trying to convince Mrs. Crouton to let the kids go to school without masks.

It's time to open the God damn playgrounds in mcDonald's and Chik-Fil-A!(this is really the only pandemic countermeasure still in place here)

Yeah I had someone call me a snob.

Anyone not about to rock with all of AC/DC is a snob!

I only rock to it if it was written before 1750.

I only rock to it if it was written before 1750.

AC/DC's pre-1750 collection is a bit dry for my tastes

Calen headbanging to the harpsichord.

My grandmother had garden sculptures, chalk, plaster and metal depictions of old gods, fauns, facsimiles of Greek statues and Victoriana, most of it shit if I am honest but she had this one stone effect (probably mortar) elfin dancer that looked the part, cavorting amongst the plants by the pond that she really liked.

Well one day I knocked its head off, not just off either, more turned to dust whilst swinging a stick around with abandon.

There was horror followed by self-preservation, I collected some clay, soil and bits of the head and fashioned something I hoped would pass as its real head at least from the window, do you know what it looked like?








AC/DC with Brian Johnson as singer.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on February 07, 2022, 01:52:14 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 06, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

Quote from: Stash on February 06, 2022, 03:56:41 PM

I simply hope he's right about this: “Once Omicron peaks, subsequent variants are likely to be even more mild.”

Right? That would be amazing.

Don't know why kabool and Shifter are trying to kick people out of the hospital. lol

One of the enormous benefits the pandemic has brought is that it has allowed certain people to weaponize their self-righteousness.

This has reached the point where they now feel comfortable calling for dying people to be thrown out of hospitals.  This clearly represents a significant improvement for society.

It's been amazing to me to watch the "be kind" people become so vicious. (not talking about Shifter, he's always been vicious  )

Everyone has a limit and us "be kind" folks are tired of having people yell and scream about freedoms while those same people end up in an icu because of Covid.  Its no different than a parent telling their kids to wear a helmet when riding a bike but they never do.  Eventually you just need to let them understand the consequences....

Spare the rod spoil the child

Go ahead, specifically state how people who are vaxxed are suffering because of people who are unvaxxed.

Ok.  People who are vaxxed are suffering because of people who are unvaxxed.

Unvaxxed morons filling up hospitals keeping vaxxed people from getting surgeries and procedures.

All the overworked medical staff having to deal with watching all the unvaxxed idiots begging for help as they die of COVID.

Selfish unvaxxed walking around unmasked and without care as they spread disease and make the pandemic worse.

But conservatives are allergic to accepting consequences for their own actions. It's always someone else's fault.

Maps is flats!

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 07, 2022, 08:12:03 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on February 07, 2022, 01:52:14 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 06, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

Quote from: Stash on February 06, 2022, 03:56:41 PM

I simply hope he's right about this: “Once Omicron peaks, subsequent variants are likely to be even more mild.”

Right? That would be amazing.

Don't know why kabool and Shifter are trying to kick people out of the hospital. lol

One of the enormous benefits the pandemic has brought is that it has allowed certain people to weaponize their self-righteousness.

This has reached the point where they now feel comfortable calling for dying people to be thrown out of hospitals.  This clearly represents a significant improvement for society.

It's been amazing to me to watch the "be kind" people become so vicious. (not talking about Shifter, he's always been vicious  )

Everyone has a limit and us "be kind" folks are tired of having people yell and scream about freedoms while those same people end up in an icu because of Covid.  Its no different than a parent telling their kids to wear a helmet when riding a bike but they never do.  Eventually you just need to let them understand the consequences....

By throwing them out of the hospital? You are so weird.

Anyway, this seems promising https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-01051-2

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on February 07, 2022, 07:41:21 AM

Go ahead, specifically state how people who are vaxxed are suffering because of people who are unvaxxed.

Ok.  People who are vaxxed are suffering because of people who are unvaxxed.

Unvaxxed morons filling up hospitals keeping vaxxed people from getting surgeries and procedures.

All the overworked medical staff having to deal with watching all the unvaxxed idiots begging for help as they die of COVID.

Selfish unvaxxed walking around unmasked and without care as they spread disease and make the pandemic worse.

But conservatives are allergic to accepting consequences for their own actions. It's always someone else's fault.

Maps is flats!

careful now
some legit unvaxxed can't get vaxed because of various reasons.
you shouldn't generalize.
states rights for teh win!

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 07, 2022, 08:12:03 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on February 07, 2022, 01:52:14 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 06, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

Quote from: Stash on February 06, 2022, 03:56:41 PM

I simply hope he's right about this: “Once Omicron peaks, subsequent variants are likely to be even more mild.”

Right? That would be amazing.

Don't know why kabool and Shifter are trying to kick people out of the hospital. lol

One of the enormous benefits the pandemic has brought is that it has allowed certain people to weaponize their self-righteousness.

This has reached the point where they now feel comfortable calling for dying people to be thrown out of hospitals.  This clearly represents a significant improvement for society.

It's been amazing to me to watch the "be kind" people become so vicious. (not talking about Shifter, he's always been vicious  )

Everyone has a limit and us "be kind" folks are tired of having people yell and scream about freedoms while those same people end up in an icu because of Covid.  Its no different than a parent telling their kids to wear a helmet when riding a bike but they never do.  Eventually you just need to let them understand the consequences....

1) You still don't allow your kid to go out biking without a helmet
2) If (when) they eventually take off the helmet while you're not looking, you don't secretly hope they fall and get a major head injury, and then tell them they can't go to the hospital for the help they need to survive "to let them understand consequences."

Quote from: Lorddave on February 07, 2022, 10:32:25 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 07, 2022, 08:12:03 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on February 07, 2022, 01:52:14 AM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on February 06, 2022, 04:03:55 PM

Quote from: Stash on February 06, 2022, 03:56:41 PM

I simply hope he's right about this: “Once Omicron peaks, subsequent variants are likely to be even more mild.”

Right? That would be amazing.

Don't know why kabool and Shifter are trying to kick people out of the hospital. lol

One of the enormous benefits the pandemic has brought is that it has allowed certain people to weaponize their self-righteousness.

This has reached the point where they now feel comfortable calling for dying people to be thrown out of hospitals.  This clearly represents a significant improvement for society.

It's been amazing to me to watch the "be kind" people become so vicious. (not talking about Shifter, he's always been vicious  )

Everyone has a limit and us "be kind" folks are tired of having people yell and scream about freedoms while those same people end up in an icu because of Covid.  Its no different than a parent telling their kids to wear a helmet when riding a bike but they never do.  Eventually you just need to let them understand the consequences....

By throwing them out of the hospital? You are so weird.

Anyway, this seems promising https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-021-01051-2

What would you propose then?  0 consequences?  Just go "Well, you don't wanna do what is best for society so... enjoy life and feel free to be an extra burden.  We'll stop bothering you."

Seems counter productive.

Quote from: Lorddave on February 07, 2022, 10:32:25 AM

1) You still don't allow your kid to go out biking without a helmet
2) If (when) they eventually take off the helmet while you're not looking, you don't secretly hope they fall and get a major head injury, and then tell them they can't go to the hospital for the help they need to survive "to let them understand consequences."

True, but in fairness, I love my kids alot more than I love strangers who refuse a vaccine or to wear a mask because... freedom.
We tried asking.
We tried educating.
We tried bribing.
So what's left?  What's left is punishment.  Taking away freedoms. (we're trying that now)
After that?  What do you do with children or teenagers who absolutely refuse to listen to you after you've taken away everything?  After you've educated them, been patient with them, and done everything possible to keep them save?  What do you do?

Getting sick and needing the hospital is the consequence. Throwing them out of the hospital is your fucking retarted fantasy.

Do you throw drug addicts out of the hospital when they overdose? Do you throw drunks out of the hospital when they fall down the stairs? Do you throw diabetics out of the hospital because they ate a donut?

The last time I OD'd, drunkily fell down a flight of stairs almost choking on a donut in my mouth, I was not refused medical treatment.

Special conditions call for special results.
Temproary rules to srart working on the back log.

Maybe not that theyre being thrown out.
Just not accepting new.

Triage.

Taking otherp atients whove been waiting for 2yrs.

Look I like seeing bad things happen to people who disagree with me as much as the next guy but urging death on them is a bit much.  But we're going down a dangerous road when we start to deny people medical attention based on whether or not they brought it on themselves.

Thought experiment; consider your opinions on covid but replace covid with smoking.

you're misunderstanding

no one's urging death.

shifter laughs at some of the death.
no one's urging it.

it's urging for healing.
it's urging of healing of others before thosers.
because currently it's healing of thosers before others which is highly unfair considering...

The last time I OD'd, drunkily fell down a flight of stairs almost choking on a donut in my mouth, I was not refused medical treatment.

See, we live in a truly benevolent society!