nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

Quote

"Of two guests from India, one was a man without any comorbidities, and one was a woman with diabetes. They both received the 2nd dose of Covaxin (BBV152) 10 days before traveling to the wedding venue. Moreover, they tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 before boarding the flight.

Soon after developing symptoms including fatigue, cough, and fever, both guests from India tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection. At day 6 post-wedding, the man without comorbidity was admitted to a hospital because of worsening symptoms. One month after the wedding, he died due to COVID-19 related complications."

I've no idea what you want us to do with this anecdote?

Quote

There are more and more reports of fully vaccinated people catching, and dying from the new strains. It's like 2020 all over again, people complaining about lockdowns and saying it's not a big deal... panicking over nothing. But the economy!

OK, so what is your criteria for opening societies back up again?

Here is what I want you to do with that report, realize that if we pretend everything is fine, the new strain is going to rampage through the population and we are going to have packed hospitals and large scale deaths, again. Realize that your vaccination isn't going to be worth anything if half the people around you have COVID. You think you are going to be just fine, maybe get a sniffle, but this could very well kill you. You are not immune.

I want you to imagine, pretend that when this all started a year ago everyone took it seriously and we had lockdowns and social distancing right away and didn't have half the population thinking it was a hoax for months and spreading this crap and fighting the restrictions.

We would be done with it by now.  But no.. people whined and whined and said it wasn't that bad, which was true right up until it got bad.

Same position we are in now. Deaths are rising, rates are climbing... we can stop this new wave easily, if we just wear bloody masks and take some precautions. But nooooo people don't wanna so we are going to just keep stumbling along until we get ANOTHER surge and have to extend the lockdown further. Good job.

The criteria for opening back up is when it's not going to kill another few million people, which could be NOW if people would have done the right thing back then. But they didn't, and are intent on making the same mistake AGAIN as if we didn't just go through this.

You act like if we didn't have any lockdowns we would be all better off, but countries tried that and their economies got hit WORSE because, you know, all the people dying. That kind of puts a damper on the economy too. You want to open up and let the disease have a second go on us?

Sigh. Idiots.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 08, 2021, 07:09:07 AM

Quote

"Of two guests from India, one was a man without any comorbidities, and one was a woman with diabetes. They both received the 2nd dose of Covaxin (BBV152) 10 days before traveling to the wedding venue. Moreover, they tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 before boarding the flight.

Soon after developing symptoms including fatigue, cough, and fever, both guests from India tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection. At day 6 post-wedding, the man without comorbidity was admitted to a hospital because of worsening symptoms. One month after the wedding, he died due to COVID-19 related complications."

I've no idea what you want us to do with this anecdote?

Quote

There are more and more reports of fully vaccinated people catching, and dying from the new strains. It's like 2020 all over again, people complaining about lockdowns and saying it's not a big deal... panicking over nothing. But the economy!

OK, so what is your criteria for opening societies back up again?

Here is what I want you to do with that report, realize that if we pretend everything is fine, the new strain is going to rampage through the population and we are going to have packed hospitals and large scale deaths, again. Realize that your vaccination isn't going to be worth anything if half the people around you have COVID. You think you are going to be just fine, maybe get a sniffle, but this could very well kill you. You are not immune.

I want you to imagine, pretend that when this all started a year ago everyone took it seriously and we had lockdowns and social distancing right away and didn't have half the population thinking it was a hoax for months and spreading this crap and fighting the restrictions.

We would be done with it by now.  But no.. people whined and whined and said it wasn't that bad, which was true right up until it got bad.

Same position we are in now. Deaths are rising, rates are climbing... we can stop this new wave easily, if we just wear bloody masks and take some precautions. But nooooo people don't wanna so we are going to just keep stumbling along until we get ANOTHER surge and have to extend the lockdown further. Good job.

The criteria for opening back up is when it's not going to kill another few million people, which could be NOW if people would have done the right thing back then. But they didn't, and are intent on making the same mistake AGAIN as if we didn't just go through this.

You act like if we didn't have any lockdowns we would be all better off, but countries tried that and their economies got hit WORSE because, you know, all the people dying. That kind of puts a damper on the economy too. You want to open up and let the disease have a second go on us?

Sigh. Idiots.

Christ man who the fuck is pretending 'everything is fine'?

The current data suggests that countries that have vaccinated are suffering far fewer deaths and hospitalisations.

The world needs a plan post covid. It's not going to 'go away' no matter how many lockdowns we do. Eventually a time will have to come when the vaccine and boosters are available to anyone that wants one. How can you justify locking millions of people down, unable to leave their homes or run their businesses or go to work onb account of anti vaxxer morons who dont want to take the jab?

People are going to die. That's life (well death actually). It happens. Now if you had a 90+% vaccine rate in addition to the masks, sensible social distancing and hand hygiene (because those measures are now adopted into our psyche and wont go away anytime soon), how the hell can you justify lockdowns

How could, for example, Australia continue to BAN residents from journeying overseas or having out country open to tourists and overseas students etc. Millions of us cant even leave our own state borders unless we have a few spare thousands of dollars lying around to stay in some shitty hotel for 2 weeks where we might actually CATCH covid because we have to share the hotel with overseas travelers returning home from covid infested countries

You underestimate just how much DAMAGE to peoples health an indefinite lockdown would do. How the fuck does impoverishing an entire nation (because lockdowns are doing that and has already done that to many thousands of people) help anyone?

You can stay under the doona without a plan if you like. Hopefully governments around the world grow a pair and plan for life with covid

It's not going to 'go away' no matter how many lockdowns we do.

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

It's simple math.  If on average, every COVID infection spreads to more than 1 person, it will spread.  If on average every COVID infection spreads to less than one person, it will die out.

That is why getting the vaccination rates as high as possible is so important. Vaccines don't stop the spread, just slow it down. But if you slow it down ENOUGH then you keep it from staying a global pandemic.

The pandemic is not over. A 50% rate is not good enough, and it doesn't mean that you are going to even save many lives if new, deadlier variants come along, like they have. They can still kill a lot of vaccinated people, and keep mutating until one comes along that the vaccine isn't effective against.

We only have two ways to fight this. Vaccinate everyone, and wear masks and social distance until then. We haven't hit our vaccination goal, so we have to keep our guard up. Time will tell if attitudes like yours cause another surge or if we can avoid it.

But sure, keep whining. It worked so well last time.

A story about what happened to 2 people in India that got a vaccine that is less effective than both Pfizer and Moderna is not something you should start building policy around...

Quote from: Shifter on July 08, 2021, 12:53:16 PM

It's not going to 'go away' no matter how many lockdowns we do.

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

It's simple math.  If on average, every COVID infection spreads to more than 1 person, it will spread.  If on average every COVID infection spreads to less than one person, it will die out.

That is why getting the vaccination rates as high as possible is so important. Vaccines don't stop the spread, just slow it down. But if you slow it down ENOUGH then you keep it from staying a global pandemic.

The pandemic is not over. A 50% rate is not good enough, and it doesn't mean that you are going to even save many lives if new, deadlier variants come along, like they have. They can still kill a lot of vaccinated people, and keep mutating until one comes along that the vaccine isn't effective against.

We only have two ways to fight this. Vaccinate everyone, and wear masks and social distance until then. We haven't hit our vaccination goal, so we have to keep our guard up. Time will tell if attitudes like yours cause another surge or if we can avoid it.

But sure, keep whining. It worked so well last time.

Uhh, what the hell are you reading? You seriously read something and then make up your own take away You always do that

Vaccinations have only eliminated a handful of viruses, such as smallpox. Everything else is pretty much here to stay. Whooping cough, Influenza, Measles etc. High vaccination rates (90+%) keep the virus from spreading as it knocks it r0 value to less than 1 as the virus is unable to thrive in new hosts - as you already know.

However covid will be the 'new influenza' and governments around the world are going to have to deal with it. We cant lock down forever and ever as much as you'd like. I support a lockdown in the absence of a vaccine but it needs to be measured and smart and do the least amount of damage economically as a healthy economy is tied in with health and wellbeing.

Australia had totally screwed up its vaccine response. We should be WAY higher than where we are right now but because our government needs covid to remain a hot topic late into 2022 and wants overseas travel to be banned up until then, you can understand why the public here is getting pretty annoyed at the lack of any plan or sensible leadership. The dickhead PM even said even if we are all vaccinated that overseas travel will not recommence. Fuck him.

A story about what happened to 2 people in India that got a vaccine that is less effective than both Pfizer and Moderna is not something you should start building policy around...

If it was just two people I would not be concerned. However, breakthrough infections among vaccinated people are popping up all over, and the delta variant is looking to be darn near 100% transmissible among the unvaccinated and much more dangerous.  Now a newer even worse variant is starting to spread. Now is the time to stop it in it's tracks... but no. Of course that won't happen.

Current WHO recommendation is that everyone, including vaccinated people continue to wear masks. It's just mind boggling people are such wusses they can't handle a bit of cloth over their face and think it's just as bad as gassing the Jews.

Quote from: boydster on July 08, 2021, 01:12:50 PM

A story about what happened to 2 people in India that got a vaccine that is less effective than both Pfizer and Moderna is not something you should start building policy around...

If it was just two people I would not be concerned. However, breakthrough infections among vaccinated people are popping up all over, and the delta variant is looking to be darn near 100% transmissible among the unvaccinated and much more dangerous.  Now a newer even worse variant is starting to spread. Now is the time to stop it in it's tracks... but no. Of course that won't happen.

Current WHO recommendation is that everyone, including vaccinated people continue to wear masks. It's just mind boggling people are such wusses they can't handle a bit of cloth over their face and think it's just as bad as gassing the Jews.

I think you'll find the overwhelming majority in countries that are not America have no problems wearing masks, I certainly dont

You will find people having problems being ordered to stay in their homes, lose their jobs, close their businesses for good and be forbidden to travel not only internationally but within their own state borders on account of a covid case in the country (as is here). But imagine that WITH a completely vaccinated public and that is the prospect Australia is staring down the barrel at thanks to an inept PM who has no plan but to boost his chances at the next election.... Late in 2022

Masks, social distancing, hand hygiene, etc..... 99% of people here have no issues here and I doubt they will even vaccinated.

If it makes you feel better, take a look at the data coming out of Israel or the UK who are having vaccinated people test positive but no where near the level of hospitalizations or especially deaths like they used to. Or like India had (same variant)

Like I said before. Vaccines dont stop you getting infected. I doubt any vaccine does. Being vaccinated doesn't kill the virus before it enters your body. It kills it as it tries to gain a foothold

Now because we are testing people on the slightest suspicion they have come into contact with covid, we are finding vaccinated people testing positive. I bet if someone with whooping cough coughed all over me and I got tested the next day, I could show a positive result for whooping cough. But we dont do testing to that extreme for any other virus or disease. We do with covid and that's why we are finding them among the vaccinated


Later on when we dont do the covid testing once the entirety of the public are vaccinated (or at least ~95% like other vaccines), we will only be reporting those hospitalized or dead from covid. And I dont imagine it will be any worse than the seasonal flu deaths going by the current data

Now because we are testing people on the slightest suspicion they have come into contact with covid, we are finding vaccinated people testing positive. I bet if someone with whooping cough coughed all over me and I got tested the next day, I could show a positive result for whooping cough. But we dont do testing to that extreme for any other virus or disease. We do with covid and that's why we are finding them among the vaccinated

So if we just stopped testing people it would all go away. Yeah, where have I heard that one before... we're testing too much.

Do you not understand that testing positive is bad and that's why we test?  You seem to think it's just fine if you catch it, and potentially spread it to others as long as nobody counts it?

The pandemic is not over. Right now infection rates are climbing, hospitalizations are, deaths are climbing. Now is NOT the time to start easing up. Not yet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/health/lambda-variant-covid-peru.html

Covid’s Lambda Variant: Worth Watching, but No Cause for Alarm

Spreading fast in South America, the variant is still a mystery. No one knows whether it is more contagious than other variants or if it affects vaccines.

Viruses evolve. SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is no exception. So the emergence of variants is no surprise, and not every new genetic mutation poses a serious threat.

But in recent weeks, a growing drumbeat of news coverage has started to raise alarm about Lambda, a variant first detected in Peru late last year. The variant, initially known as C.37, has spread rapidly through parts of South America. On June 14, the World Health Organization designated it as a “variant of interest,” meaning, essentially, that experts suspect it could be more dangerous than the original strain.

Lambda’s prevalence and its mutations, which resemble those found in several other highly contagious or worrisome variants, mean that it is worth watching, scientists said. But much remains unknown, and it is not yet clear how much of a risk it poses.

If there are enough variants of interest they will have start naming them after hurricanes.

If it was just two people I would not be concerned. However, breakthrough infections among vaccinated people are popping up all over, and the delta variant is looking to be darn near 100% transmissible among the unvaccinated and much more dangerous.  Now a newer even worse variant is starting to spread. Now is the time to stop it in it's tracks... but no. Of course that won't happen.

You're talking about a population of nearly 8 billion people. Breakthrough cases are absolutely going to happen, and the numbers will look alarming if they aren't taken in context. More important is the rate of breakthrough cases per capita, especially among the vaccinated. If the R₀ for those same breakthrough cases is below 1, the virus is still losing the war.

Quote from: Shifter on July 08, 2021, 01:50:59 PM

Now because we are testing people on the slightest suspicion they have come into contact with covid, we are finding vaccinated people testing positive. I bet if someone with whooping cough coughed all over me and I got tested the next day, I could show a positive result for whooping cough. But we dont do testing to that extreme for any other virus or disease. We do with covid and that's why we are finding them among the vaccinated

So if we just stopped testing people it would all go away. Yeah, where have I heard that one before... we're testing too much.

Do you not understand that testing positive is bad and that's why we test?  You seem to think it's just fine if you catch it, and potentially spread it to others as long as nobody counts it?

The pandemic is not over. Right now infection rates are climbing, hospitalizations are, deaths are climbing. Now is NOT the time to start easing up. Not yet.

We find positive test results despite vaccinations because we are testing people that have come into contact with the virus. If we tested everyone who was vaccinated for the flu immediately after they came into contact with a flu infected person, guess what? You'd find positive results there too. Your body has to be infected before you can use the tools the vaccine gave you to fight it off before it damages you

Learn to think critically

I'm not saying to stop testing so much, it's good that we test vaccinated people because it gives us data into how effective the vaccines are. But it's not doom and gloom if a vaccinated person tests positive. It's only if they start neededing hospital intervention and dying that you gave a problem

Of course vaccinated people can be carriers if the disease. Literally goes for any virus they come into contact with. I bet the vaccinated people don't spew out live covid germs out their face for weeks though. Their infectious period would be far shorter. Also no vaccine will prevent poor hygiene. Given how long live covid can remain on surfaces if people don't wash their hands they will spread it around. Vaccinated or not

Hence why masks and hand sanitisers will be here to stay. Every bit helps

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on July 08, 2021, 07:09:07 AM

Quote

"Of two guests from India, one was a man without any comorbidities, and one was a woman with diabetes. They both received the 2nd dose of Covaxin (BBV152) 10 days before traveling to the wedding venue. Moreover, they tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 before boarding the flight.

Soon after developing symptoms including fatigue, cough, and fever, both guests from India tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection. At day 6 post-wedding, the man without comorbidity was admitted to a hospital because of worsening symptoms. One month after the wedding, he died due to COVID-19 related complications."

I've no idea what you want us to do with this anecdote?

Quote

There are more and more reports of fully vaccinated people catching, and dying from the new strains. It's like 2020 all over again, people complaining about lockdowns and saying it's not a big deal... panicking over nothing. But the economy!

OK, so what is your criteria for opening societies back up again?

Here is what I want you to do with that report, realize that if we pretend everything is fine, the new strain is going to rampage through the population and we are going to have packed hospitals and large scale deaths, again. Realize that your vaccination isn't going to be worth anything if half the people around you have COVID. You think you are going to be just fine, maybe get a sniffle, but this could very well kill you. You are not immune.

I want you to imagine, pretend that when this all started a year ago everyone took it seriously and we had lockdowns and social distancing right away and didn't have half the population thinking it was a hoax for months and spreading this crap and fighting the restrictions.

We would be done with it by now.  But no.. people whined and whined and said it wasn't that bad, which was true right up until it got bad.

Same position we are in now. Deaths are rising, rates are climbing... we can stop this new wave easily, if we just wear bloody masks and take some precautions. But nooooo people don't wanna so we are going to just keep stumbling along until we get ANOTHER surge and have to extend the lockdown further. Good job.

The criteria for opening back up is when it's not going to kill another few million people, which could be NOW if people would have done the right thing back then. But they didn't, and are intent on making the same mistake AGAIN as if we didn't just go through this.

You act like if we didn't have any lockdowns we would be all better off, but countries tried that and their economies got hit WORSE because, you know, all the people dying. That kind of puts a damper on the economy too. You want to open up and let the disease have a second go on us?

Sigh. Idiots.

I didn't ask for your Holier than Though self righteous ranting.  I asked what your criteria was for opening up, not for some fucking lecture delivered from your high horse.

This pandemic has brought out the best in some people and the worst in others.  It seems to have bred a new priesthood, intent on preaching to us on how wicked we are and how we must suffer in infinite lockdowns for our sins.  If only we could have all listened to the priests and given up our sinful desires for a social life or to return to work!

And I'll tell you what your anecdote is worth: nothing.  It's no more useful than some antivaxxer going on about how his sister's dog walker collapsed after getting a jab.

If there are enough variants of interest they will have start naming them after hurricanes.

I think they'll name the first one "Karen". When we do the biennial swap over to male names, probably kick it off with "Chet".

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Polio.

I'm not sure how we're defining "wiped out", nor am I speaking from a Global perspective. But according to the CDC, in the US, "Thanks to a successful vaccination program, the United States has been polio-free since 1979."

Specifically, "Since 1979, no cases of polio have originated in the U.S. However, the virus has been brought into the country by travelers with polio. The last time this happened was in 1993"
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/polio-us.html

From the same:



So I don't think that it's idiocy to claim that vaccines have had a significant impact on "wiping out" a virus. The data are pretty clear in this case.

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Said with such confidence.

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Smallpox

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:35:58 PM

If it was just two people I would not be concerned. However, breakthrough infections among vaccinated people are popping up all over, and the delta variant is looking to be darn near 100% transmissible among the unvaccinated and much more dangerous.  Now a newer even worse variant is starting to spread. Now is the time to stop it in it's tracks... but no. Of course that won't happen.

You're talking about a population of nearly 8 billion people. Breakthrough cases are absolutely going to happen, and the numbers will look alarming if they aren't taken in context. More important is the rate of breakthrough cases per capita, especially among the vaccinated. If the R₀ for those same breakthrough cases is below 1, the virus is still losing the war.

It's a fact that the delta variant is much more aggressive and contagious.

It's also a fact that infection rates are climbing.

This is the context that I find those numbers alarming.

Infection rates are going to climb because everyone has smae problems

Covid fatigue

Summer

Reopenings

Lack of or fear of vaccines

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on July 09, 2021, 03:40:41 AM

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Smallpox

Oh, smallpox has been wiped out?

Really?

Must have missed the announcement. "small quantities of smallpox virus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia."

Seems as if they are purposefully keeping it around.

Lemme guess.

Your idea of eradication is to keep the shit lying around somewhere.

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on July 09, 2021, 03:40:41 AM

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Polio.

I'm not sure how we're defining "wiped out", nor am I speaking from a Global perspective. But according to the CDC, in the US, "Thanks to a successful vaccination program, the United States has been polio-free since 1979."

Specifically, "Since 1979, no cases of polio have originated in the U.S. However, the virus has been brought into the country by travelers with polio. The last time this happened was in 1993"
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/polio-us.html

From the same:



So I don't think that it's idiocy to claim that vaccines have had a significant impact on "wiping out" a virus. The data are pretty clear in this case.

Polio isn't wiped out.

No virus is wiped out.

They purposefully keep this shit lying around for a reason.

You are an idiot.

Quote from: markjo on July 09, 2021, 06:42:51 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on July 09, 2021, 03:40:41 AM

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Smallpox

Oh, smallpox has been wiped out?

Really?

Must have missed the announcement. "small quantities of smallpox virus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia."

Seems as if they are purposefully keeping it around.

Lemme guess.

Your idea of eradication is to keep the shit lying around somewhere.

You really are amazingly, stunningly ignorant. Another example of a total lack of critical thinking abilities.

Smallpox has been wiped out in the wild. Having a vial of it in a lab somewhere doesn't mean we didn't completely remove it from the population. Vaccines work and have ben used to eradicate diseases.

Nobody gets sick from smallpox anymore, because of vaccines. Deal with it.

They keep it lying around because governments want a bio weapon. Or to enact Agenda 21 later 

Quote from: markjo on July 09, 2021, 06:42:51 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on July 09, 2021, 03:40:41 AM

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Smallpox

Oh, smallpox has been wiped out?

Really?

Must have missed the announcement. "small quantities of smallpox virus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia."

Seems as if they are purposefully keeping it around.

Lemme guess.

Your idea of eradication is to keep the shit lying around somewhere.

Wow
Your misrepresentation of those facts is amazing.

I've no idea why you guys respond to him, he's a straight up troll.

who knows when's trolling and when's serious.
he's pretty dumb.

Do we still need to wear a mask?

I've no idea why you guys respond to him, he's a straight up troll.

I think he really is as ignorant as he appears. White rage is real, the poor guy has one of the worst cases I've seen.

Do we still need to wear a mask?

remove yourself from the population.
darwin award.

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on July 09, 2021, 08:35:53 AM

Quote from: markjo on July 09, 2021, 06:42:51 AM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on July 09, 2021, 03:40:41 AM

Quote from: JJA on July 08, 2021, 01:09:46 PM

Actually, making it go away is exactly what the vaccines are meant to do. We have wiped out more than one virus that way.

Name one, you idiot.

Smallpox

Oh, smallpox has been wiped out?

Really?

Must have missed the announcement. "small quantities of smallpox virus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia."

Seems as if they are purposefully keeping it around.

Lemme guess.

Your idea of eradication is to keep the shit lying around somewhere.

You really are amazingly, stunningly ignorant. Another example of a total lack of critical thinking abilities.

Smallpox has been wiped out in the wild. Having a vial of it in a lab somewhere doesn't mean we didn't completely remove it from the population. Vaccines work and have ben used to eradicate diseases.

Nobody gets sick from smallpox anymore, because of vaccines. Deal with it.

A stunningly idiotic reply from the biggest one of all.

Claims, while in the same sentence admits it hasn't.