nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

get whatever you can get
why wait and potentially catch corona

Exactly. 600K Americans died after catching Mr Corone unprepared. More than a million others elsewhere. Millions more suffering permanent damage.

I'll take whatever help I can get!

Interesting PSA on covid variants.

Since (in the US) the FDA gave vaccines emergency use authorization, and they can't take it back, I don't understand why the media is censoring discussion of other treatments. Scientists have been banned from Facebook, and Youtube for discussing MATH + Protocal https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/math-plus-protocol/  Dr. Joseph Varon has given thousands of interviews in all the msm, but they edit out any mention of Ivermectin, and they don't mention the much lower death rate at his hospital in Houston.

This is a really interesting interview with Dr Varon https://www.bitchute.com/video/rvccR4Tg6fRS/ 

My guess is that "they" want to scare everyone into getting the vaccine to keep people from getting sick rather than give the anti-vaxxers any ammo by letting people know that there are possible effective treatments once people do get sick.

I kinda wonder what the price tag on the MATH+ protocol or a course of Ivermectin vs any of the currently available vaccines.  You know, the old prevention vs cure cost/benefit ratio.

My guess is that "they" want to scare everyone into getting the vaccine to keep people from getting sick rather than give the anti-vaxxers any ammo by letting people know that there are possible effective treatments once people do get sick.

I kinda wonder what the price tag on a course of Ivermectin vs any of the currently available vaccines.  You know, the old prevention vs cure cost/benefit ratio.

From what I see, the Ivermectin treatment for covid is still being researched. Some of the studies that were done in India are talked about as not being very credible/good so no conclusions should be drawn yet. I suppose after the fiasco of hydroxychloroquine and you had muppets like Trump and Musk pushing it and people drinking fish cleaner to get it, they want to take a cautious approach. The last thing you want is people running to buy Ivermectin for animals and self medicating.

Just going to the supermarket to buy the dog some heart worm medication! brb!

It's not just the active ingredient the FDA monitors in drugs but the inactive ones too. And the inactive ones for use in other animals may not be good or tested/researched for use in humans

The fact that some people will stupidly self medicate shouldn't be a reason to ban the conversation. I mean, they didn't stop selling Tide Pods when people were eating them!

The fact that some people will stupidly self medicate shouldn't be a reason to ban the conversation. I mean, they didn't stop selling Tide Pods when people were eating them!

Fair point. Not to mention cinnamon or nutmeg from those stupid challenges. Or the eating of mentos followed by diet soft drinks. Amazing the stupidity people go to for a view and a like

Since (in the US) the FDA gave vaccines emergency use authorization, and they can't take it back, I don't understand why the media is censoring discussion of other treatments. Scientists have been banned from Facebook, and Youtube for discussing MATH + Protocal https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/math-plus-protocol/  Dr. Joseph Varon has given thousands of interviews in all the msm, but they edit out any mention of Ivermectin, and they don't mention the much lower death rate at his hospital in Houston.

This is a really interesting interview with Dr Varon https://www.bitchute.com/video/rvccR4Tg6fRS/

The Lancet forced to retract what actually was a purely political hatchet job on hydroxychloroquine should be the first clue.

Lives are meaningless in the age of Malthus.

I'm currently listening to Joe Rogan interviewing Bret Weinstein about Ivermectin because apparently I hate myself and wish to harm myself by listening to Bret Weinstein.

Weinstein's opinion is that the covid vaccine is bad and dangerous but Ivermectin is good also covid was genetically engineered as a bioweapon by China.

But it's a 3 hour long podcast.  Maybe he'll convince me by the end of it.

I'm planning to watch that eventually, but I really hate spotify so I don't know when I'll get around to it. Bret Weinstein is really upset with Youtube for giving his channel two strikes over his videos talking about Ivermectin. I am more interested in hearing what they say about the censorship, than I am about the treatments.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 07:46:04 AM

Since (in the US) the FDA gave vaccines emergency use authorization, and they can't take it back, I don't understand why the media is censoring discussion of other treatments. Scientists have been banned from Facebook, and Youtube for discussing MATH + Protocal https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/math-plus-protocol/  Dr. Joseph Varon has given thousands of interviews in all the msm, but they edit out any mention of Ivermectin, and they don't mention the much lower death rate at his hospital in Houston.

This is a really interesting interview with Dr Varon https://www.bitchute.com/video/rvccR4Tg6fRS/

The Lancet forced to retract what actually was a purely political hatchet job on hydroxychloroquine should be the first clue.

Lives are meaningless in the age of Malthus.

So I guess the CCP is not the only government that cracks down on speech it doesn't like to hear? Who would have thought? 

I'm currently listening to Joe Rogan interviewing Bret Weinstein about Ivermectin because apparently I hate myself and wish to harm myself by listening to Bret Weinstein.

Weinstein's opinion is that the covid vaccine is bad and dangerous but Ivermectin is good also covid was genetically engineered as a bioweapon by China.

But it's a 3 hour long podcast.  Maybe he'll convince me by the end of it.

Already if he thinks Covid is genetically engineered the guys a fruit cake dumbarse. Unless there is a global conspiracy by scientists the world over to cover up what would be the worst crime in human history by a country that none of the world even likes anyway 

If this was engineered, it would be obvious when looked at. The guy is a loon and you're going to expose yourself to 3 hours of this trash talk? Do you not love yourself? R U OK?

Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist. He thinks the lab leak theory is credible.

Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist. He thinks the lab leak theory is credible.

Lab leak and genetically engineered weapon are a long way apart.

Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist. He thinks the lab leak theory is credible.

Lab leak doesn't have to mean it was deliberate or engineered. Besides, we know it wasn't engineered and honestly I dont think China is stupid enough to release a highly contagious air borne virus. Well, on purpose

I really don't have a way of evaluating whether or not it's likely that it was generically engineered. Weinstein might. He's a smart guy. Interesting to listen to. But it seems that his experiences in academy has traumatized him so badly that his judgement is damaged.

He usually begins these discussions by stating that everyone ignores the lab leak theory because trump used to promote it. This is a deeply idiotic thing to say, almost offensive. The media is not in charge of investigating pandemics. The government does that and trump was in charge during this. And to say that anyone who opposes trump will automatically oppose any of his positions just tells me that his worldview is warped.

There's another tab I have open where he talks about his ideas that I'm part way through. I think someone posted it here a few days ago.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 11:06:52 AM

Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist. He thinks the lab leak theory is credible.

Lab leak doesn't have to mean it was deliberate or engineered. Besides, we know it wasn't engineered and honestly I dont think China is stupid enough to release a highly contagious air borne virus. Well, on purpose

To be fair I haven't seen proof that it was or wasn't. And I wouldn't know how to judge that proof. Obviously it wasn't malicious. You wouldn't engineer a virus and hit your own people with it and not have a good vaccine for it.

If this was engineered, it would be obvious when looked at. The guy is a loon and you're going to expose yourself to 3 hours of this trash talk? Do you not love yourself? R U OK?

I like to listen to people that have a different opinion than mine.

Quote from: Shifter on June 24, 2021, 10:58:52 AM

If this was engineered, it would be obvious when looked at. The guy is a loon and you're going to expose yourself to 3 hours of this trash talk? Do you not love yourself? R U OK?

I like to listen to people that have a different opinion than mine.

Differing opinions are one thing, but lies are another. If the guy is not an expert, and thousands of actual experts have said 'this is definitely not genetically engineered or man made' then why would you give the 'opinion' the credibility of your attention?

I like hearing differing opinions too. I even like playing Devils Advocate at times but somewhere you have to draw the line and say 'no, that's not an opinion. It's factually false and propagating it is harmful'.

Would you consider Trumps claim that he won the election and it was rigged an 'opinion'? Anti vaxxers claim that vaccines cause autism an 'opinion'?

Opinions are for things like preferences. Eg a movie you like, a colour, a sporting team, favourite food and so on. Where there is no right or wrong or facts or lies

Bret weinstein is an expert, ostensibly.

The thing is is that if I don't occasionally listen to the likes of Alex Jones and fox News then I get blindsided by thtir bizarre theories.

A lab leak could happen in any lab that studies viruses. They intentionally make them more contagious. I haven't listened to Bret's latest JRE interview, so I don't know if he actually said Covid was engineered as a weapon, but I have heard him talk about labs creating more virulent and contagious viruses for study.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that "experts" don't ever lie. This is weird.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that "experts" don't ever lie. This is weird.

Oh I'm sure they do. But every single one of them that has looked at this virus? All over the world? Including countries which loathe China? Find me just one expert who has looked at this virus in detail and said 'yep! There's all the hallmarks of being man made right here'. You will find none.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 12:21:36 PM

Also, you seem to be under the impression that "experts" don't ever lie. This is weird.

Oh I'm sure they do. But every single one of them that has looked at this virus? All over the world? Including countries which loathe China? Find me just one expert who has looked at this virus in detail and said 'yep! There's all the hallmarks of being man made right here'. You will find none.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

A good article but I have a few problems with it.  It's a year old, I think there's been a lot of new information since then.   It doesn't address the whole "gain of function" thing which is probably a republican conspiracy theory but I really don't know enough to say for sure.

So there's a few possibilities.

1.  It's a virus that popped up from nature.  The most likely explanation as far as I can tell.  We have plagues all throughout history.  We didn't need genetic engineers to make those obviously.

2.  China attacked the world with a bioweapon.  Totally absurd.

3.  China made a bioweapon and it accidently got out.  Very unlikely.  If you think about it, it's not a very good bioweapon.

4.  China experimented with an existing virus for benign research purposes and because of bad lab practices it accidently got out.  Doesn't seem likely but maybe.

Gain of Function research is very much real and not a secret. People can, and do, debate the ethics of it, but that debate doesn't change the fact that it's been going on for a while and continues today. I'm pretty sure influenza viruses are a pretty common one they do this with, but if the place in Wuhan that specializes in studying coronaviruses was found to be doing GOF research on coronaviruses, that wouldn't exactly be surprising.

One of the major issues people on the "GOF is bad" side of the debate raise is that by intentionally making viruses more dangerous, we are increasing the risk of accidentally starting a deadly pandemic and killing millions of people, despite the original intention which would have been to study how to protect ourselves against such a virus.

So for me, if I'm looking at your list Crouton, bullet points 1 and 4 are both on near equal footing in terms of plausibility in my own mind. 2 and 3 I have to agree are pretty hard to believe though.

Quote from: Shifter on June 24, 2021, 12:47:01 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 12:21:36 PM

Also, you seem to be under the impression that "experts" don't ever lie. This is weird.

Oh I'm sure they do. But every single one of them that has looked at this virus? All over the world? Including countries which loathe China? Find me just one expert who has looked at this virus in detail and said 'yep! There's all the hallmarks of being man made right here'. You will find none.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

A good article but I have a few problems with it.  It's a year old, I think there's been a lot of new information since then.   It doesn't address the whole "gain of function" thing which is probably a republican conspiracy theory but I really don't know enough to say for sure.

So there's a few possibilities.

1.  It's a virus that popped up from nature.  The most likely explanation as far as I can tell.  We have plagues all throughout history.  We didn't need genetic engineers to make those obviously.

2.  China attacked the world with a bioweapon.  Totally absurd.

3.  China made a bioweapon and it accidently got out.  Very unlikely.  If you think about it, it's not a very good bioweapon.

4.  China experimented with an existing virus for benign research purposes and because of bad lab practices it accidently got out.  Doesn't seem likely but maybe.

Whether or not the article is a year old doesn't change the fact that this virus is most definitely made in nature and not man.

Given how much contact humans have with wild animals, especially in China and the 'wet markets' and beyond, this method is the most likely. Millions of contacts every day. It's why we are so scared of bird flu. We have had some transmissions from birds to humans - only a matter of time before the infected human passes it on to other humans

I can get on board with your last point. Maybe a muppet working at the virus lab got complacent, maybe didn't wear his PPE correctly or the SoP's weren't adhered too properly and got himself infected or inadvertently carried it out of the lab. Human error is always happening.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 12:21:36 PM

Also, you seem to be under the impression that "experts" don't ever lie. This is weird.

Oh I'm sure they do. But every single one of them that has looked at this virus? All over the world? Including countries which loathe China? Find me just one expert who has looked at this virus in detail and said 'yep! There's all the hallmarks of being man made right here'. You will find none.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

You've moved the goalposts. I'm not suggesting Covid is manmade, I'm suggesting it could've been made more contagious for study. 

Quote from: Shifter on June 24, 2021, 12:47:01 PM

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on June 24, 2021, 12:21:36 PM

Also, you seem to be under the impression that "experts" don't ever lie. This is weird.

Oh I'm sure they do. But every single one of them that has looked at this virus? All over the world? Including countries which loathe China? Find me just one expert who has looked at this virus in detail and said 'yep! There's all the hallmarks of being man made right here'. You will find none.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

You've moved the goalposts. I'm not suggesting Covid is manmade, I'm suggesting it could've been made more contagious for study.

The goal posts were set by that knob Crouton wants to spend hours listening to that says this was a genetically engineered or man made virus the Chinese cooked up in the lab. Which is by every expert reasoning, completely false

If China were frigging around with a naturally sourced virus well, what lab in the world studying viruses isn't? Like why are we treating China as 'you can't do that (but we can)'. Even if true, that's not what is being said. It's still a far cry different to the 'man made' virus claims which is designed to make the motive about this virus in people's minds as some insidious bio weapon by the Chinese and that every death so far was deliberate murder

America 'manufactured our consent' to go to war when they lied about WMDs in Iraq. Here they are again it seems

I fully support an investigation into the viruses origins. I don't support an investigation however if people have already set their minds up on a definitive conclusion before they even start. That's not helpful

I haven't listened to that podcast, but I've listened to lots of Bret Weinstein's podcasts. He believes the virus could have escaped from the lab, and the thinks it might have been made more contagious in the lab, which is a thing labs do. I have never heard him say he thinks the virus was entirely engineered in a lab, or that it is a bioweapon.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/06/24/covid-19-lab-leak-investigation-deleted-genetic-fingerprints-show-its-still-possible-dig-lab-leak-ev/7778194002/  Here's an archive https://archive.is/XroGX

The media is not in charge of investigating . . .

Then what is their purpose?
To print or broadcast official government propaganda without question?

Quote from: Crouton on June 24, 2021, 11:29:10 AM

The media is not in charge of investigating . . .

Then what is their purpose?
To print or broadcast official government propaganda without question?

Let me rephrase that.  The media does not have the authority or the expertise to kick down the door to a high security medical research facility in another country for the purposes of determining the origins of the disease.