nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)

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Crouton

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3390 on: June 01, 2021, 07:35:41 AM »
They are not? Well they seem to be extremely effective for something not at all designed or meant to prevent infection through aerosol.

Here, we measured outward emissions of micron-scale aerosol particles by healthy humans performing various expiratory activities while wearing different types of medical-grade or homemade masks. Both surgical masks and unvented KN95 respirators, even without fit-testing, reduce the outward particle emission rates by 90% and 74% on average during speaking and coughing, respectively, compared to wearing no mask, corroborating their effectiveness at reducing outward emission.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7
So according to your study, surgical masks reduce aerosol by 90% and N95 masks by 74%? Makes sense, sure is a great study!

Yes, that is correct, it makes sense and is a great study.  What this demonstrates is you don't understand how these masks work. No wonder you guys are so confused.

Let me clear it up for you.

N95 masks have a flap that opens up when you exhale that allows droplets and aerosols to come out. Because they are primarily designed to protect the wearer.



So yes, N95 masks are worse that surgical masks at preventing the wearer from spreading aerosol viruses.

The study isn't wrong, you are. Got it?

This is a completely optional feature for n95 masks.  I have a few different n95s and they don't have this valve because I'm a cheapskate.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3391 on: June 01, 2021, 08:53:53 AM »
They are not? Well they seem to be extremely effective for something not at all designed or meant to prevent infection through aerosol.

Here, we measured outward emissions of micron-scale aerosol particles by healthy humans performing various expiratory activities while wearing different types of medical-grade or homemade masks. Both surgical masks and unvented KN95 respirators, even without fit-testing, reduce the outward particle emission rates by 90% and 74% on average during speaking and coughing, respectively, compared to wearing no mask, corroborating their effectiveness at reducing outward emission.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7
So according to your study, surgical masks reduce aerosol by 90% and N95 masks by 74%? Makes sense, sure is a great study!

Also, you made another error.  The quote above is discussing KN95 masks which are NOT the same as an N95.  They are a Chinese version of the N95 which is many consider flawed and with common quality issues in manufacturing. 

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3392 on: June 01, 2021, 09:10:51 AM »
Also, you made another error.  The quote above is discussing KN95 masks which are NOT the same as an N95.
I think that the most common error that most people are making is not understanding that N95 and KN95 are certification ratings, not particular mask/respirator models.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/
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Wolvaccine

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3393 on: June 01, 2021, 09:15:55 AM »
They are not? Well they seem to be extremely effective for something not at all designed or meant to prevent infection through aerosol.

Here, we measured outward emissions of micron-scale aerosol particles by healthy humans performing various expiratory activities while wearing different types of medical-grade or homemade masks. Both surgical masks and unvented KN95 respirators, even without fit-testing, reduce the outward particle emission rates by 90% and 74% on average during speaking and coughing, respectively, compared to wearing no mask, corroborating their effectiveness at reducing outward emission.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7
So according to your study, surgical masks reduce aerosol by 90% and N95 masks by 74%? Makes sense, sure is a great study!

Also, you made another error.  The quote above is discussing KN95 masks which are NOT the same as an N95.  They are a Chinese version of the N95 which is many consider flawed and with common quality issues in manufacturing.

Not sure what propaganda you've been reading but they are basically the exact same thing
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/whats-the-difference-between-n95-and-kn95-masks/


Quote
ost of these differences are small and would be uninteresting to the average mask user. However, here are the key differences:

1. To be certified as a KN95 mask, the Chinese government requires the manufacturer to run a special mask fit test on real humans with ≤ 8% leakage. The N95 mask standard does not require manufacturers to run fit tests.

This does not mean that fit tests aren’t helpful. Many hospitals and companies require their workers to be fit-tested. However, those are requirements of companies themselves, not for the US NIOSH certification on the mask.

Mask fit test requirements KN95 vs N95

2. N95 masks have slightly stricter requirements for pressure drop while inhaling. That means they’re required to be slightly more breathable than KN95 masks.

Don’t worry, despite it sometimes feeling difficult to breathe through masks, dying from oxygen starvation is very unlikely when wearing a mask.

3. N95s also have slightly stricter requirements for pressure drop while exhaling, which should help with breathability.

 Bottom Line: Difference Between N95 vs. KN95 Masks

N95s and KN95s are both rated to capture 95% of particles. Among the minor differences, only KN95 masks are required to pass fit tests, while N95 masks have slightly stronger breathability standards.
So slight differences include the KN95 mask standard actually requires a 'fit test' where N95 does not
The N95 mask has more comfortable breathability but you wont exactly suffocate in a KN95 mask either

Whichever mask you put on, it will afford you the same level of protection. Like everything, buy from a reputable source and not some cheap grocery store selling masks on the side




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Space Cowgirl

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3394 on: June 01, 2021, 06:47:31 PM »
https://apnews.com/article/china-bird-flu-flu-health-b5862e1d9892b25fdb470abf30432289

Quote
BEIJING (AP) — A man in eastern China has contracted what might be the world’s first human case of the H10N3 strain of bird flu, but the risk of large-scale spread is low, the government said Tuesday.

The 41-year-old man in Jiangsu province, northwest of Shanghai, was hospitalized April 28 and is in stable condition, the National Health Commission said on its website.

No human case of H10N3 has been reported elsewhere, the commission said.

“This infection is an accidental cross-species transmission,” its statement said. “The risk of large-scale transmission is low.”

Put your masks back on!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Alexei

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3395 on: June 01, 2021, 06:58:39 PM »
https://apnews.com/article/china-bird-flu-flu-health-b5862e1d9892b25fdb470abf30432289

Quote
BEIJING (AP) — A man in eastern China has contracted what might be the world’s first human case of the H10N3 strain of bird flu, but the risk of large-scale spread is low, the government said Tuesday.

The 41-year-old man in Jiangsu province, northwest of Shanghai, was hospitalized April 28 and is in stable condition, the National Health Commission said on its website.

No human case of H10N3 has been reported elsewhere, the commission said.

“This infection is an accidental cross-species transmission,” its statement said. “The risk of large-scale transmission is low.”

Put your masks back on!
WE already have a bad virus.
We dont need another.
He might have got it from eating some infected bird.

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3396 on: June 02, 2021, 05:09:40 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/china-bird-flu-flu-health-b5862e1d9892b25fdb470abf30432289

Quote
BEIJING (AP) — A man in eastern China has contracted what might be the world’s first human case of the H10N3 strain of bird flu, but the risk of large-scale spread is low, the government said Tuesday.

The 41-year-old man in Jiangsu province, northwest of Shanghai, was hospitalized April 28 and is in stable condition, the National Health Commission said on its website.

No human case of H10N3 has been reported elsewhere, the commission said.

“This infection is an accidental cross-species transmission,” its statement said. “The risk of large-scale transmission is low.”

Put your masks back on!

Let's hope it's true. I have already booked my summer holidays.
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Jamie

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3397 on: June 02, 2021, 05:51:13 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/china-bird-flu-flu-health-b5862e1d9892b25fdb470abf30432289

Quote
BEIJING (AP) — A man in eastern China has contracted what might be the world’s first human case of the H10N3 strain of bird flu, but the risk of large-scale spread is low, the government said Tuesday.

The 41-year-old man in Jiangsu province, northwest of Shanghai, was hospitalized April 28 and is in stable condition, the National Health Commission said on its website.

No human case of H10N3 has been reported elsewhere, the commission said.

“This infection is an accidental cross-species transmission,” its statement said. “The risk of large-scale transmission is low.”

Put your masks back on!

Fuckin' A, China!
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Wolvaccine

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3398 on: June 02, 2021, 06:05:25 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/china-bird-flu-flu-health-b5862e1d9892b25fdb470abf30432289

Quote
BEIJING (AP) — A man in eastern China has contracted what might be the world’s first human case of the H10N3 strain of bird flu, but the risk of large-scale spread is low, the government said Tuesday.

The 41-year-old man in Jiangsu province, northwest of Shanghai, was hospitalized April 28 and is in stable condition, the National Health Commission said on its website.

No human case of H10N3 has been reported elsewhere, the commission said.

“This infection is an accidental cross-species transmission,” its statement said. “The risk of large-scale transmission is low.”

Put your masks back on!

Fuckin' A, China!

Hmm. I suppose similar things could have been said when the Colonial era west brought smallpox, measles, influenza and other hideous diseases to ravish indigenous populations of other countries

Fuckin' A Western Colonialism!

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sokarul

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3399 on: June 02, 2021, 06:20:09 AM »
Also the disease brought to the Aboriginal. Don’t want to forget that.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3400 on: June 02, 2021, 06:28:29 AM »
Also the disease brought to the Aboriginal. Don’t want to forget that.

Indeed.

Hence why I said 'other countries' and 'western colonialism'. They fked over everyone in their wake. The history is pretty well documented

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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3401 on: June 02, 2021, 07:10:40 AM »
Whatabout these other things is getting boring, you do it every time China is mentioned. I love China, I love their culture, I love their food, and I find their history fascinating, but it's okay to talk about the bad stuff too. We talk shit about the US all the time!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3402 on: June 02, 2021, 01:03:56 PM »
Whatabout these other things is getting boring, you do it every time China is mentioned. I love China, I love their culture, I love their food, and I find their history fascinating, but it's okay to talk about the bad stuff too. We talk shit about the US all the time!
And that that's the difference between the US and China: You can talk shit about the US without winding up in a forced labor/re-education camp.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3403 on: June 02, 2021, 01:14:57 PM »
Whatabout these other things is getting boring, you do it every time China is mentioned. I love China, I love their culture, I love their food, and I find their history fascinating, but it's okay to talk about the bad stuff too. We talk shit about the US all the time!
And that that's the difference between the US and China: You can talk shit about the US without winding up in a forced labor/re-education camp.

George Takei probably has a different take from his childhood memories. That wasn't even that long ago. Literally living memory for many

I just think countries like mine, America and other western countries are not in much of a position to judge, while forgetting their own history. Certainly in no position to try and act like they are bastions of morality. Our history in regards to current civilised standards is atrocious

Where you have population density, and a large population and land mass as well as being a major global (or is it planal ;)) exporter, chances are only greater you will get an incident. China is all of that so China is a likely place for a new zoonotic disease.




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what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3404 on: June 02, 2021, 01:34:45 PM »
We are not countries, we are individuals. We should be free to be critical of all the shady shit governments do, whether they're our own or somewhere else.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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sokarul

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3405 on: June 02, 2021, 04:24:30 PM »
Whatabout these other things is getting boring, you do it every time China is mentioned. I love China, I love their culture, I love their food, and I find their history fascinating, but it's okay to talk about the bad stuff too. We talk shit about the US all the time!
And that that's the difference between the US and China: You can talk shit about the US without winding up in a forced labor/re-education camp.



I just think countries like mine, America and other western countries are not in much of a position to judge, while forgetting their own history. …
So don’t do what you are currently doing in multiple threads?
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3406 on: June 03, 2021, 05:00:51 AM »
They are not? Well they seem to be extremely effective for something not at all designed or meant to prevent infection through aerosol.

Here, we measured outward emissions of micron-scale aerosol particles by healthy humans performing various expiratory activities while wearing different types of medical-grade or homemade masks. Both surgical masks and unvented KN95 respirators, even without fit-testing, reduce the outward particle emission rates by 90% and 74% on average during speaking and coughing, respectively, compared to wearing no mask, corroborating their effectiveness at reducing outward emission.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7
So according to your study, surgical masks reduce aerosol by 90% and N95 masks by 74%? Makes sense, sure is a great study!

Yes, that is correct, it makes sense and is a great study.  What this demonstrates is you don't understand how these masks work. No wonder you guys are so confused.

Let me clear it up for you.

N95 masks have a flap that opens up when you exhale that allows droplets and aerosols to come out. Because they are primarily designed to protect the wearer.



So yes, N95 masks are worse that surgical masks at preventing the wearer from spreading aerosol viruses.

The study isn't wrong, you are. Got it?

Guess what I am wearing right now?
Exactely, an ffp2 mask.

And guess what it and the vast majority of ffp2/n95/kn95 masks dont have?
Correct, vent holes!

Your study is absolutely bullcrap for using masks with vent holes then testing exhaling. Thats literally just retarded, everybody knows that the mask isnt protecting others properly if it has a vent hole.
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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3407 on: June 03, 2021, 05:27:51 AM »
I just think countries like mine, America and other western countries are not in much of a position to judge, while forgetting their own history. Certainly in no position to try and act like they are bastions of morality. Our history in regards to current civilised standards is atrocious


What you are not considering is that it's not actually the countries having opinions, it's the people living inside such a country. And honestly, what my ancestor may or may not have done is their thing. I have not contributed to what they have done because guess what, I wasn't even born when they had their colonies and whatever.
So yeah, I am in a position to judge if I wanted to, independent of the history of my country.
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3408 on: June 03, 2021, 05:58:53 AM »

And the FFp2 masks should have mask fit training if they are to be effective, my wife was a mask fit trainer for NHS staff, telling them how to wear them, pinch the nose guard and then spray them in the face with “Bitrex” or saccharin spray, if they could taste it they failed.

Men with beards invariably failed.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3409 on: June 03, 2021, 06:05:24 AM »

And the FFp2 masks should have mask fit training if they are to be effective, my wife was a mask fit trainer for NHS staff, telling them how to wear them, pinch the nose guard and then spray them in the face with “Bitrex” or saccharin spray, if they could taste it they failed.

Men with beards invariably failed.

Such a stupid test, but a good thing for americans, I guess!
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3410 on: June 03, 2021, 07:32:25 AM »

And the FFp2 masks should have mask fit training if they are to be effective, my wife was a mask fit trainer for NHS staff, telling them how to wear them, pinch the nose guard and then spray them in the face with “Bitrex” or saccharin spray, if they could taste it they failed.
At my hospital I built the system for recording fit test results and track stock levels etc.  The fit test fail rates are as high as 50% on the main masks, and plenty of people fail on all the masks, even without beards.

Interestingly, I found out that at least one of our eminent surgeons didn't before wear a surgical mask for...surgery.  He wasn't the only one, apparently.   He cited lack of evidence for their effectiveness and he wasn't wrong.  This paper goes over the evidence (or lack of it) and the controversy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

As it points out though, there is no harm in wearing them (though some of our surgeons can do sessions that last up to 12 hours, and might argue differently) and it is useful for ‘maintaining theatre discipline’.
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sokarul

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3411 on: June 03, 2021, 10:05:04 AM »
There are 150+ people here fit tested for full face respirators including me. We don’t really have a failed rate. 50% seems really high.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3412 on: June 03, 2021, 11:00:26 AM »
Actually, just checked and our main mask is the 3M Aura (and a bunch of other 3M that are basically the same)

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/p/d/v000125642/

About a third of people failed the fit test on that.  The rate is actually over 50% for many of the other masks we can manage to get hold of.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 11:15:47 AM by JimmyTheCrab »
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Crouton

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3413 on: June 03, 2021, 11:40:29 AM »
Seems like there's a market for custom printed face masks for professionals.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3414 on: June 03, 2021, 02:31:25 PM »
Your study is absolutely bullcrap for using masks with vent holes then testing exhaling. Thats literally just retarded, everybody knows that the mask isnt protecting others properly if it has a vent hole.

This just proves you aren't paying attention. Aside from not noticing they said KN95 and not K95, they tested a variety of masks, some with vent holes, some without.

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.

K95 masks (without vent holes) and surgical masks both reduce the chances of spreading viruses through droplets or aerosols, as designed. That's all I'm saying.

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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3415 on: June 03, 2021, 10:00:12 PM »
Your study is absolutely bullcrap for using masks with vent holes then testing exhaling. Thats literally just retarded, everybody knows that the mask isnt protecting others properly if it has a vent hole.

This just proves you aren't paying attention. Aside from not noticing they said KN95 and not K95, they tested a variety of masks, some with vent holes, some without.

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.

K95 masks (without vent holes) and surgical masks both reduce the chances of spreading viruses through droplets or aerosols, as designed. That's all I'm saying.
Putting your hand in front of your mouth while coughing and sneezing also reduces droplets and aerosols. Yet it's not a proper way to prevent the spread of a truely airborne pathogen.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3416 on: June 04, 2021, 01:36:33 AM »
There are 150+ people here fit tested for full face respirators including me. We don’t really have a failed rate. 50% seems really high.

The failure rate was about 8% where she did it, quite a lot in the early days because when they removed the mask they still couldn't taste the spray, a symptom of having or recently had, Covid.
A few freaked out when she pointed this out.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3417 on: June 04, 2021, 02:27:59 AM »
50% fail rate either indicates poor training or a shitty grocery store / ebay bought mask. Or both

I don't care what packaging or what the masks look like or say bought from a grocery store or ebay. Don't buy from them

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3418 on: June 04, 2021, 03:27:52 AM »
50% fail rate either indicates poor training or a shitty grocery store / ebay bought mask. Or both

I don't care what packaging or what the masks look like or say bought from a grocery store or ebay. Don't buy from them
As I say, our hospital has a 30% fail rate on the 3M Aura masks (which is our first choice, due to supply). What it indicates is really stringent testing by a specialist infection control nurse and a lack of mask model choice.  We are not buying them from the local grocery store.... ::)

Looking a the literature, we actually seem a bit low, as 80% get passed on their first mask choice generally.  However there are still massive supply issues, so we can't test people on whatever mask might look best for them - we always try them out first with the line we have decent number of in stock.

Almost nobody walking round shops etc is doing it with a tight seal, including myself as a have a beard.
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Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« Reply #3419 on: June 04, 2021, 03:28:51 AM »
50% fail rate either indicates poor training or a shitty grocery store / ebay bought mask. Or both

I don't care what packaging or what the masks look like or say bought from a grocery store or ebay. Don't buy from them

It's also highly suggestive that it has appened in the USA. People there probably put their mask on upside down and inside out!
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