Iran general killed that ordered by Trump

He could have been awake most of the night.

Overall I liked what he said. 

He didn't say anything bad.  Standard stuff really.  Read from a prepared speech.  Though opening with "I will not allow Iran to have Nuclear Weapons" is kinda odd but that's Trump.

Lots of saber rattling, posturing, empty promises, and blaming Obama.



However, wise should take note: no casualties.  So Iran lied.

All in all it's look good so far.  Iraq informed our military bases of the attacks hours in advance.  This seems like a carefully executed PR operation for Iran to save face.

Now it's all up to Trump to act like a normal human and just let it go.  So in other words we're probably all fucked.

All in all it's look good so far.  Iraq informed our military bases of the attacks hours in advance.  This seems like a carefully executed PR operation for Iran to save face.

Now it's all up to Trump to act like a normal human and just let it go.  So in other words we're probably all fucked.

In his news conference he said they'll ramp up the sanctions on Iran.

I suppose that's better than ramping up the bombs.

Quote from: Crouton on January 08, 2020, 01:53:50 PM

All in all it's look good so far.  Iraq informed our military bases of the attacks hours in advance.  This seems like a carefully executed PR operation for Iran to save face.

Now it's all up to Trump to act like a normal human and just let it go.  So in other words we're probably all fucked.

In his news conference he said they'll ramp up the sanctions on Iran.

Yeah but it's hard to know what he means by sanctions though.  It would be easy to do sham retaliation sanctions that don't really do anything.

Quote from: The Real Celine Dion on January 08, 2020, 01:59:19 PM

Quote from: Crouton on January 08, 2020, 01:53:50 PM

All in all it's look good so far.  Iraq informed our military bases of the attacks hours in advance.  This seems like a carefully executed PR operation for Iran to save face.

Now it's all up to Trump to act like a normal human and just let it go.  So in other words we're probably all fucked.

In his news conference he said they'll ramp up the sanctions on Iran.

Yeah but it's hard to know what he means by sanctions though.  It would be easy to do sham retaliation sanctions that don't really do anything.

I've heard the term "maximum pressure campaign" going around.

Quote from: Crouton on January 08, 2020, 01:53:50 PM

All in all it's look good so far.  Iraq informed our military bases of the attacks hours in advance.  This seems like a carefully executed PR operation for Iran to save face.

Now it's all up to Trump to act like a normal human and just let it go.  So in other words we're probably all fucked.

In his news conference he said they'll ramp up the sanctions on Iran.

I suppose that's better than ramping up the bombs.

Here's a pretty accurate overview of the attack.

https://www.msnbc.com/andrea-mitchell-reports/watch/susan-rice-trump-s-despicable-lies-about-obama-show-his-extreme-weakness-and-insecurity-76279877743

Triggered!

Yeah.  Color me surprised but this looks like it may not turn to war.  Granted, the Iranian people may want more blood but as long as they believe, like wise, that 80 Americans died, we'll be fine.

It's looking increasingly likely that Iran shot down their own citizens by accident.  They will now have to launch missiles at their own bases to revenge this atrocity.

Seriously, I wonder how they will attempt to spin this. There is no way that they can keep this covered up at home.

That is just weird.  With what I know it seems like maybe their military is just incompetent. 

Or maybe it's like in a movie when a bad guy murders one of his henchmen in front of the good guy to prove how evil he is.

I wanna see Iran admit to it then watch Wise spin it to show he was right all along.

There are some conspiracies claim Iran government wanted to get rid of Suleimani and made an agreement with Trump. win-win. Inother say all these events seem like a scenario. We can not know what will happen before saw the end scenario. Because we are not the authors of it.

There are some conspiracies claim Iran government wanted to get rid of Suleimani and made an agreement with Trump. win-win. Inother say all these events seem like a scenario. We can not know what will happen before saw the end scenario. Because we are not the authors of it.

That is the hardest god damn 180 I've ever seen.

Quote from: wise on January 09, 2020, 10:50:08 AM

There are some conspiracies claim Iran government wanted to get rid of Suleimani and made an agreement with Trump. win-win. Inother say all these events seem like a scenario. We can not know what will happen before saw the end scenario. Because we are not the authors of it.

That is the hardest god damn 180 I've ever seen.

I have spent most of my life defending global theory. because then it was real. then I defended the opposite. because the evidence has changed. new evidence requires new assessments. your problem is that you do not evaluate the new evidence and that you are biased. in the light of new data, this has required it being a a scenario. I'm not god, I don't know what something really is. I decide according to the data at hand. My opinion changes when evidences changes. I am not bigot oppositely you, hence you can not get me.

Quote from: Lorddave on January 09, 2020, 10:54:04 AM

Quote from: wise on January 09, 2020, 10:50:08 AM

There are some conspiracies claim Iran government wanted to get rid of Suleimani and made an agreement with Trump. win-win. Inother say all these events seem like a scenario. We can not know what will happen before saw the end scenario. Because we are not the authors of it.

That is the hardest god damn 180 I've ever seen.

I have spent most of my life defending global theory. because then it was real. then I defended the opposite. because the evidence has changed. new evidence requires new assessments. your problem is that you do not evaluate the new evidence and that you are biased. in the light of new data, this has required it being a a scenario. I'm not god, I don't know what something really is. I decide according to the data at hand. My opinion changes when evidences changes. I am not bigot oppositely you, hence you can not get me.

wise makes a good point. If evidence points in a direction, flat earther minds tend to follow it up. Globe heads will never muster up the courage to say something they believed no longer stacks up to the evidence.

In this case with this plane downing, if Iran did shoot it down, the evidence will present itself in good time.

It was never unreasonable to assume in the first instance this plane was shit down and that America had a hand in it. With Trump at your helm, even the most implausible scenario becomes real possibility. That should already be obvious

Remember on this thread people were parroting mechanical failure. LOL are you kidding you believed that? A newish plane with an excellent safety record goes down in Iran only days after a major assassination of an Iranian general and hours after missiles struck and American base.

It's you guys that need to eat the humble pie. Not wise.

Your post couldn't be further from the truth.

He's just doing his usual trolling.

Your post couldn't be further from the truth.

You might disagree with parts of it fair enough but it is truthful

Trump is unpredictable. Fact.

The entire world media suspected and now supports the plane was possibly shot down. Fact

People on this thread did suggest mechanical failure. Fact

Your post 'couldn't be FURTHER from the truth' is a dumb lie. Fact

Quote from: sokarul on January 09, 2020, 01:25:43 PM

Your post couldn't be further from the truth.

You might disagree with parts of it fair enough but it is truthful

Trump is unpredictable. Fact.

Which doesn’t mean he would shoot down a passenger plane. Fact.

The entire world media suspected and now supports the plane was possibly shot down. Fact

By Iran. Fact.

People on this thread did suggest mechanical failure. Fact

Only one and it was the Greek. Fact.

Your post 'couldn't be FURTHER from the truth' is a dumb lie. Fact

The dumb lie is your claim it was the US. Fact.

You did so with no evidence. Fact.

“ Globe heads will never muster up the courage to say something they believed no longer stacks up to the evidence.” is literally the opposite of the scientific method. Fact.

I didn't suggest mechanical failure, the Ukrainian embassy did. I said idk what happened to it. It might have been mechanical failure. Iran didn't have a reason to shoot it down but they might have fucked up and confused it with an American bomber. Or it might have crashed into a drone or whatever. Or it might have been a third party.

Not looking good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

Quote from: Shifter on January 09, 2020, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: sokarul on January 09, 2020, 01:25:43 PM

Your post couldn't be further from the truth.

You might disagree with parts of it fair enough but it is truthful

Trump is unpredictable. Fact.

Which doesn’t mean he would shoot down a passenger plane. Fact.

Quote

The entire world media suspected and now supports the plane was possibly shot down. Fact

By Iran. Fact.

Quote

People on this thread did suggest mechanical failure. Fact

Only one and it was the Greek. Fact.

Quote

Your post 'couldn't be FURTHER from the truth' is a dumb lie. Fact

The dumb lie is your claim it was the US. Fact.

You did so with no evidence. Fact.

“ Globe heads will never muster up the courage to say something they believed no longer stacks up to the evidence.” is literally the opposite of the scientific method. Fact.

I can tell you this. Nothing surprises me anymore with the US and Trump.

I seriously would not be in the least but surprised if America did shoot down the plane if Trump thought there was a 'bad man' on board. Disgusted but not surprised. Such is your Presidents reputation.

The US is indirectly responsible anyway even if iran did shoot it by mistake. If Trump never ordered the killing of the general, no one's fingers would be ready on the trigger to shoot anything down. Trump has made the entire region far more volitle and dangerous. Fact.

Did the killing 'de-escalate' the region. HELL NO

Not looking good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

So it's more likely that the Iranians shot it down,  probably by mistake.    Perhaps It just went off while they were cleaning it...   

No wonder the Iranians don't want to hand over the black boxes to Boeing.  In any event  I suspect there will be telemetry from the aircraft that goes direct to Boeing anyway that they already have.  Not to mention the NROL spy satellites that were no doubt focussed on Tehran around that time.

Quote from: Junker on January 09, 2020, 02:56:55 PM

Not looking good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

So it's more likely that the Iranians shot it down,  probably by mistake.    Perhaps It just went off while they were cleaning it...   

Or, maybe they were on high alert because they just launched a bunch of missiles at an American base in Iraq and were expecting retaliation when someone made a horrible mistake.

Quote from: JerkFace on January 09, 2020, 03:32:43 PM

Quote from: Junker on January 09, 2020, 02:56:55 PM

Not looking good.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html

So it's more likely that the Iranians shot it down,  probably by mistake.    Perhaps It just went off while they were cleaning it...   

Or, maybe they were on high alert because they just launched a bunch of missiles at an American base in Iraq and were expecting retaliation when someone made a horrible mistake.

Iranians don't care to hand over the black box because they already know what happened.

Quote from: Lorddave on January 09, 2020, 10:54:04 AM

Quote from: wise on January 09, 2020, 10:50:08 AM

There are some conspiracies claim Iran government wanted to get rid of Suleimani and made an agreement with Trump. win-win. Inother say all these events seem like a scenario. We can not know what will happen before saw the end scenario. Because we are not the authors of it.

That is the hardest god damn 180 I've ever seen.

I have spent most of my life defending global theory. because then it was real. then I defended the opposite. because the evidence has changed. new evidence requires new assessments. your problem is that you do not evaluate the new evidence and that you are biased. in the light of new data, this has required it being a a scenario. I'm not god, I don't know what something really is. I decide according to the data at hand. My opinion changes when evidences changes. I am not bigot oppositely you, hence you can not get me.

To quote you....

Don't tell me its being accident or chance. I don't believe on chance and know USA has technology to do it. They did it. Whatever you tell it can not change my mind, USA did.

You posted this having no evidence.  Yet here you are, mind changed. 

Yet here you are, mind changed.

Did you change his mind though? Because his post was in relation to what you guys tell him.

None of you were the ones to change his mind. And it still stands that the USA being responsible was not an unreasonable thinking given recent events and how unstable and unpredictable Trump is.

Trump has no issue killing innocents if the 'ends justify the means'

One bad man on a civilian plane? Shoot it down. The ends justify the means. That's how Trumps mind works.

Seems to me we're overlooking the obvious here.  Iran won't let us access the black box.  They shoot down their own plane.  The only reasonable conclusion is that they were redirected at the last minute to fly a Qantas path and they were shot down to cover up the truth.

I haven't read the text of this but it's something along the lines of saying hey, maybe the president shouldn't be able to get us into a war at a moment's notice.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/09/politics/war-powers-resolution-republicans-yes-vote/index.html

The arguments against it were the same tired bullshit that they used to get us into perpetual war in the middle east.

3 republicans voted for it, which is interesting.
8 democrats voted against, which is even more interesting.  What the hell? 

Quote from: Lorddave on January 09, 2020, 05:18:43 PM

Yet here you are, mind changed.

Did you change his mind though? Because his post was in relation to what you guys tell him.

None of you were the ones to change his mind. And it still stands that the USA being responsible was not an unreasonable thinking given recent events and how unstable and unpredictable Trump is.

Trump has no issue killing innocents if the 'ends justify the means'

One bad man on a civilian plane? Shoot it down. The ends justify the means. That's how Trumps mind works.

Read the fucking thread again. You have no clue.