The Sun is a spotlight?

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The Sun is a spotlight?
« on: December 26, 2019, 08:59:55 PM »
This is possibly the nuttiest idea so far (next to "there is no gravity") so I had to start with this. 

First, how would the sun be focused into a spotlight?  What is the mechanism?  What is the evidence? 

Even if the sun were a "spotlight" it would still be visible from everywhere on the surface of a flat earth.  For example a spotlight pointed at a stage performer can still be seen by everyone in the audience, and by all others on the stage, even when they are not in the spotlight.  Even a laser, which is more focused than a spotlight, can be seen from positions outside the focal point. And even if we couldn't see the actual "light" we would be able to detect both the beam of light and the source.  Remember those WW2 movies of the spotlight beams crisscrossing the night sky above Berlin?  But we can't see the sun at night, nor the tell tail beam. 

The sun hitting a flat earth would illuminate every part simultaneously.  But that is not what happens on this earth.

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rabinoz

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2019, 11:39:35 PM »
This is possibly the nuttiest idea so far (next to "there is no gravity") so I had to start with this. 

First, how would the sun be focused into a spotlight?  What is the mechanism?  What is the evidence? 

Even if the sun were a "spotlight" it would still be visible from everywhere on the surface of a flat earth.  For example a spotlight pointed at a stage performer can still be seen by everyone in the audience, and by all others on the stage, even when they are not in the spotlight.  Even a laser, which is more focused than a spotlight, can be seen from positions outside the focal point. And even if we couldn't see the actual "light" we would be able to detect both the beam of light and the source.  Remember those WW2 movies of the spotlight beams crisscrossing the night sky above Berlin?  But we can't see the sun at night, nor the tell tail beam. 

The sun hitting a flat earth would illuminate every part simultaneously.  But that is not what happens on this earth.
It gets worse.

The illuminated region is never circular but it is always just over half the area of the Earth.

If the Earth is flat the shape of the illuminated area must change throughout the great as in here:
Quote from: John Davis
At any rate, its a known fact that the flat earth sun acts as a spotlight.
So "its a known fact that the flat earth sun acts as a spotlight" is it? The 'Wiki" claims:
Quote
Spotlight effect
The Sun's area of light is limited to a circular area of light[/i] upon the earth much like the light of a lighthouse is limited to a finite circular area around it.
But, as seen below the Sun's area of light is never circular.

The patterns in the following video show how the shape of the pattern of the day-night areas on the flat-Earth to match that observed:

Changing shape of the Day and Night Areas on a flat-Earth from: Day and Night Areas on a Flat Earth

Better seen on full-screen.

Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2019, 12:32:16 AM »
I see the illustration, but that is a cartoon.  Show us a real demonstration, on a real surface with a real light source at a distance and intensity matching that which corresponds in scale to the earth and sun.

Your illustration is dependent on a sun which is smaller in scale than the surface it is shining upon.  That and it depends on a sun which is much closer than our sun.  If you have a sun which is many times larger and much farther away, the energy, sun rays if you will, are essentially parallel when they arrive, which would illuminate the entire surface of a flat earth.  Plus, the energy would be the same everywhere, making the entire flat surface equivalent to an area along the equator in mid-summer. 
Thus, your argument is not only that the earth is flat, but that the sun is tiny and very close to the surface of the earth.  Then you also need to explain how the same tiny, narrowly focused sun also illuminates the moon and all our neighboring planets. 

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rabinoz

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2019, 02:07:02 AM »
I see the illustration, but that is a cartoon.  Show us a real demonstration, on a real surface with a real light source at a distance and intensity matching that which corresponds in scale to the earth and sun.
Sure, it's a cartoon!

I'm no flat-Earther and that site, FlatEarth.ws - Debunking Flat Earth Misconceptions, is as its full name suggests one that specialises in "debunking Flat Earth Misconceptions".

It's a very useful resource for material like this.

So that video was made to show the impossible patterns of sunlight this magic lantern in the sky would have to produce to match the daylight-night patterns observed on earth.

When they go around telling people it is legitimate science and indoctrinate people, it pushes humanity back. We should care

I care, that's why I'm here but the real flat-Earth pseudo-science shows its face more on YouTube.
This place does give members a chance to debate these things so does serve a very useful purpose.

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Timeisup

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2019, 03:04:45 AM »
If anyone is familiar with the behavior of a spotlight one would know the sun could never be one.
The sun would require a set of barn doors or a complex arrangement of flying French Flags to behave in the way the flat earth believers would like it too. :o
The non-changing size of the sun as it does its relentless thing is also a bit of a clue.
Sunrises and Sunsets, has no xxxxxxxxxx ever seen or photographed one? or do they all get up late and go to bed early?
The flat earth concept of a small sun makes no sense from whatever angle you would like to approach it from;
What keeps the flat earth sun in place?
What powers the flat earth sun?
Why does an analysis of the sun show its a fusion machine!
Transit of Mercury.....the xxxxxxxxxx would have you believe that Mercury is the size of a basketball!
Transit of Venus...... same as above
and, of course, the game-winner is the number of satellites that are currently in orbit beaming back real-time data of the Sun and its propensity to eject huge amounts of material that could play havoc with both space and earthbound electrical systems as took place in 1989.
But then again xxxxxxxxxxxx don't believe in Satellites do they?
Possibly one day all the xxxxxxxxx scientists on this forum will come up with some answers!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 10:03:54 AM by Timeisup »

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2019, 07:11:31 AM »
This is the debate section of the forum. If you need to spam and make remarks about flat earthers do it in AR or CN.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Macarios

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2019, 04:07:22 PM »
Also, if the Sun is a spotlight, how it shows rotation period of 24 days and same surface features seen from any latitude?
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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EvolvedMantisShrimp

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2019, 08:15:17 PM »
Not to mention that the constant outpouring of energy would over the decades and centuries slowly accelerate the Sun away from the earth; eventually turning it from spotlight sun to rocket sun.
Nullius in Verba

Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2019, 03:25:10 AM »
Ah, you are all very intelligent, but where are the flat earth believers?  Let's hear more from the other side. 

Here is one problem not mentioned.  Even if the sun somehow were focused like a spotlight (some explanation is needed as to how that would happen) there remains an intractable problem.  The sun is a source not only of light but also of heat.  Thus even if the light was focused on one small area of a flat earth, the orb would be visible in the infrared spectrum from every position on earth, at all times. Even the cheapest infrared camera would be able to photograph the sun at night.  Unless somehow it was so well insulated by angel feathers?

And then there is the problem of explaining the sunlight reflecting from the moon, Mercury, Mars, Venus, comets, astroids...  That is a lot of spillover from the spotlight in the sky.

Come on.  Don't be shy.

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Timeisup

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2019, 04:06:54 AM »
Ah, you are all very intelligent, but where are the flat earth believers?  Let's hear more from the other side. 

Here is one problem not mentioned.  Even if the sun somehow were focused like a spotlight (some explanation is needed as to how that would happen) there remains an intractable problem.  The sun is a source not only of light but also of heat.  Thus even if the light was focused on one small area of a flat earth, the orb would be visible in the infrared spectrum from every position on earth, at all times. Even the cheapest infrared camera would be able to photograph the sun at night.  Unless somehow it was so well insulated by angel feathers?

And then there is the problem of explaining the sunlight reflecting from the moon, Mercury, Mars, Venus, comets, asteroids...  That is a lot of spillover from the spotlight in the sky.

Come on.  Don't be shy.

Some very good points you make. Unfortunately, no matter which way you like to swing it there is no answer to the questions you pose.
The fact that we can observe other bodies in the solar system due to them being illuminated by light from the sun in a very good point.  If you take Venus, in particular, that's very reflective being the next brightest object in the night sky after the moon shines in all its glory due to reflected sunlight. Just in case some says Venus is small and near its distance has been measured using radar. (40 million to 38 million km.)
https://www.britannica.com/science/radar-astronomy

The problem as is always the case is science.

Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2019, 03:03:55 PM »
I just found this forum mainly because i been having a few questions and theories that no one around me seems to take seriously.

1. Why if the sun is so large as NASA says it is does it move across our sky and not fill it?
2. Why does the sun move like a spot light and even cause light rays similar to a flashlight shown through the surface of water (in a small section) if it is so large?
3. Why do people not question that the moon phases could be caused by the same effect that glow in the dark stickers have. They are bright at first but begin to die down over time until you once again spam them with light. Is it possible the moon is on this sort of refill pattern?
4. How is it if space is where the stars are then why cant the whole of earth see all the stars at once (keep in mind the spin) which would mean we would see different stars all night long.
5. Why is the sky blue if space is black? (water is blue)
6. Why does every old work and religion speak of the world as a machine or creation?
7. If gravity is true then what is keeping the clouds from falling to earth? What about density?
8. If the earth is round and spinning through space wouldnt that mean everything else would have to be spinning with us at the same velocity? (sun,moon ect)?
9. If the earth is spinning as fast as they claim why do we not simply fly off? I mean things fly off easy here on earth from just a little spin. Also explain why the waters of earth are not spinning and why they seem to seek out a path and remain FLAT on the surface no matter what you do to it.
10. Why does NASA and other space based agencies always seem to rely on computer graphics, renditions and vague explanations for everything as if they are just branding a idea and selling it? I have yet to see footage that has not been doctored in some way and if you notice when people lose interest they just find another star or planet to attract people back in. NONE of which can actually be debunked or proven since no one outside the air force or rich could even attempt to fly up that high or have that strong of a scope.

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rabinoz

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2019, 07:55:35 PM »
Try asking fewer questions and you might get better answers.

I just found this forum mainly because i been having a few questions and theories that no one around me seems to take seriously.

1. Why if the sun is so large as NASA says it is does it move across our sky and not fill it?
The sun is a great distance away.
An elephant one metre away would fill your vision but an elephant a kilometre away looks quite small.

Quote from: Azuriel
2. Why does the sun move like a spot light and even cause light rays similar to a flashlight shown through the surface of water (in a small section) if it is so large?
The Sun does not behave like a spotlight. Its light illuminates just over half the surface of the Earth at any one time.
But a reflection in smooth surface looks about the same size as the object at that distance.

Quote from: Azuriel
3. Why do people not question that the moon phases could be caused by the same effect that glow in the dark stickers have. They are bright at first but begin to die down over time until you once again spam them with light. Is it possible the moon is on this sort of refill pattern?
Why would they? The phases of the Moon fit well with the fraction of the illuminated half of the moon that we see.

Quote from: Azuriel
4. How is it if space is where the stars are then why cant the whole of earth see all the stars at once (keep in mind the spin) which would mean we would see different stars all night long.
We do "see different stars all night long" the stars appear to rise from an easterly direction and set in a westerly direction just as the Sun and moon do. The stars to the north or south appear to circle around fixed points it the sky that we call the celestial poles.
For people living on the equator the North Celestial Pole is right on the Northern horizon and the South Celestial Pole is right on the Southern Horizon.

Quote from: Azuriel
5. Why is the sky blue if space is black? (water is blue)
Air scatters the blue light from the Sun making the Sun slightly yellowish but making the sky appear blue.
Directly overhead the atmosphere in thinnest and the sky is a darker blue because we can see some of the deep black of space through it.
Nearer the horizon we see through a much greater thickness of air (the slant distance) making the sky look a lighter blue.

That even applies to the cold of space.
Right now here the sun is not far from overhead (a bit to the west), the air temperature near the ground is about 35C but:
    the overhead sky temperature measures close to 0C but near the horizon the sky measures about 13C.

Quote from: Azuriel
6. Why does every old work and religion speak of the world as a machine or creation?
Why not?

Quote from: Azuriel
7. If gravity is true then what is keeping the clouds from falling to earth? What about density?
The clouds are heavy but they are also very huge and their density if not much more than that of air.
They are formed from warm moist air rising until the temperature is low enough for some of the water to condense into extremely tiny droplets, only 50 m or so, and these can be kept aloft by the very slight updrafts in the cloud.

Quote from: Azuriel
8. If the earth is round and spinning through space wouldnt that mean everything else would have to be spinning with us at the same velocity? (sun,moon ect)?
We see everything from our perspective and even the one rotation of the Earth takes 24 hours so there is no sense of movement at all.
Apart from the occasional meteor etc the fastest things in the sky are the stars and planets but almost all of the very slow movement is due to the Earth rotation.

Quote from: Azuriel
9. If the earth is spinning as fast as they claim why do we not simply fly off? I mean things fly off easy here on earth from just a little spin. Also explain why the waters of earth are not spinning and why they seem to seek out a path and remain FLAT on the surface no matter what you do to it.
Simply because we are not spinning fast we are rotating so slowly that the largest acceleration due to the rotation is only 0.3% of gravity and we perceive it simply as a tiny reduction in weight.

Quote from: Azuriel
10. Why does NASA and other space based agencies always seem to rely on computer graphics, renditions and vague explanations for everything as if they are just branding a idea and selling it?
They don't! There are hundreds of thousands of genuine unretouched photos from space.
NASA and other space based agencies do use computer graphics, renditions and animations to illustrate things that cannot be photographed.

Quote from: Azuriel
I have yet to see footage that has not been doctored in some way and if you notice when people lose interest they just find another star or planet to attract people back in.
That's your problem but you've undoubtedly seen plenty of "footage that has not been doctored in some way" but refuse to believe it because of some preconceived ideas.

Quote from: Azuriel
NONE of which can actually be debunked or proven since no one outside the air force or rich could even attempt to fly up that high or have that strong of a scope.
That's hardly the fault of "NASA and other space based agencies". They don't really care what you believe.
None of "NASA and other space based agencies" were set up to convince YOU of anything - take or leave it is all the same to them.

Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2020, 01:29:27 AM »
I just found this forum mainly because i been having a few questions and theories that no one around me seems to take seriously.
Then you should have made a new thread on it rather than trying to detract from this thread.
Most of your questions have nothing at all to do with the topic at hand, so I will only bother with them.

1 - It is far away. It doesn't mater how big something is, if it is far enough away, it will appear small.
You can try this yourself. Go stand right up against a building and observe how it fills your view. Then go view it from a few km away, and it appears much smaller.
2 - It doesn't move like a spotlight.
The beams it produces, while similar to a spotlight are actually significantly different. The beams from a spotlight diverge, quite significantly. But for the sun, they are roughly parallel and only appear to diverge due to perspective.
3 - Because the sun illuminating the moon is the simplest answer and also explains lunar eclipses. Your suggesting just adds needless complexity. Why not suggest it is actually aliens going around the moon in cycles painting it black and white?

The rest of your questions have nothing at all to do with the topic at hand other than a general link to the rejection of reality.

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wise

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Re: The Sun is a spotlight?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2020, 12:27:08 PM »
I just found this forum mainly because i been having a few questions and theories that no one around me seems to take seriously.
Wellcome. A different way of to salute. Where are you from, just curiosity.

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