A spectacular dumpster fire.

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2019, 06:44:39 AM »
He thinks the war is over, I suppose.
I suppose that I didn't realize that there was ever a declaration of war.
When was the last time anyone actually declared war on anyone?  And what has that got to do with whether there is a war?
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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2019, 03:19:31 PM »
I thought everyone knew the Afghan war was a total farce.

NO WAY!

I, like OP only just found out anything at all wa a wrong with it.

These papers are terrible, just terrible. I hope a few newspapers write a few soft articles about it and then the people in charge get promotions again.

The Americans are so stupid losing trillions of dollars in an unwinnable war for "reasons." They won't let themselves leave but the war doesn't benefit them at all it only costs them.

I wonder why they are still there if no one profits from the wars? Maybe they just like wasting money.

Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2019, 03:20:23 PM »
America's biggest problem is that they just dont think far enough ahead.

I think our biggest problem (regarding war) is that we've allowed those who profit to run the show. All that money didn't disappear into thin air. A huge chunk of what our military used to do has been transferred to private contractors.

Where did the money go and which companies?

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Stash

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2019, 05:41:23 PM »
He thinks the war is over, I suppose.
I suppose that I didn't realize that there was ever a declaration of war.
When was the last time anyone actually declared war on anyone?  And what has that got to do with whether there is a war?

Technically, for the US, that would be WWII. Apparently a formal congressional declaration hasn't been required since the 40's. So it matters not.

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Shifter

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2019, 08:55:04 PM »
Here's another though.

America needs its war machine to keep running. It keeps their soldiers trained, battle hardened and experienced. Comes in handy when a war for real hits them. Wars like Vietnam were useful for testing new weapons and strategies.

If there were no wars or fighting for decades, American troops would be weak. So they keep inventing enemies and reasons to fight other nations

War also breeds ingenuity and innovation. Of course America doesn't care about the people it kills for it though.

When Trump got elected this endless war crap was one thing I and many others hoped he would end (if only for the money it wastes). We all hoped he would be different not being a typical politician. But he has disappointed.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2019, 11:07:58 PM »
If we just wander off and go home we will be embarrassed.   ::)

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Shifter

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2019, 12:29:17 AM »
If we just wander off and go home we will be embarrassed.   ::)

Meh. Your embarrassing yourselves now. Might as well save money while doing it  :)
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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2019, 01:02:39 AM »
If we just wander off and go home we will be embarrassed.   ::)

Meh. Your embarrassing yourselves now. Might as well save money while doing it  :)

Meh. That's kinda what I said.

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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2019, 07:01:02 AM »
I'm having... Trouble... Typing.. The... Words...

Trump may be right.

Just fucking leave. No exit strategy. No note. While the country is asleep just grab all our shit and go.

I feel that we may be victim to what's known in the investing world as a sunk cost fallacy.
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Shifter

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2019, 07:09:20 AM »
I'm having... Trouble... Typing.. The... Words...

Trump may be right.

Just fucking leave. No exit strategy. No note. While the country is asleep just grab all our shit and go.

I feel that we may be victim to what's known in the investing world as a sunk cost fallacy.

Then why are you still there? Just pack up your shit and go. No one wants you there. They are probably more than happy to pick up the pieces of the mess you left then have your continued presence there.

Would you rather have a squatter simply leave your house in a filthy and damaged state or insist they remain and clean it up first? I'd cut my losses and have them just leave
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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2019, 07:15:41 AM »
I'm having... Trouble... Typing.. The... Words...

Trump may be right.

Just fucking leave. No exit strategy. No note. While the country is asleep just grab all our shit and go.

I feel that we may be victim to what's known in the investing world as a sunk cost fallacy.

Then why are you still there? Just pack up your shit and go. No one wants you there. They are probably more than happy to pick up the pieces of the mess you left then have your continued presence there.

Would you rather have a squatter simply leave your house in a filthy and damaged state or insist they remain and clean it up first? I'd cut my losses and have them just leave

Based off what I know. If Trump orders a complete withdraw and an executive order to pretend like the whole thing never happened. It would probably be the most positive thing he's done as president.
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Lorddave

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2019, 07:28:49 AM »
Yes it could be done but the power vaccume we'd create would be worse.  Or bad guys would win.

Ex: in Syria, Assad, a dictator, would prevail and everyone who fought for freedom would die for nothing.
In Afghanistan, the government would collapse and fragment groups of islamic based assholes would rip through everything and essentially make life hell for everyone instead of a few.  Then they'd build up strength and hit us again as revenge.

What we need is not to build nations in our image, but to let them be built in theirs.  Without the assholes.
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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2019, 07:36:15 AM »
Ex: in Syria, Assad, a dictator, would prevail and everyone who fought for freedom would die for nothing.

That's what I mean by the sunk cost fallacy.

Yes it could be done but the power vaccume we'd create would be worse.  Or bad guys would win.

Ex: in Syria, Assad, a dictator, would prevail and everyone who fought for freedom would die for nothing.
In Afghanistan, the government would collapse and fragment groups of islamic based assholes would rip through everything and essentially make life hell for everyone instead of a few.  Then they'd build up strength and hit us again as revenge.

I am very unclear as to what effect leaving would have on the current government.  Maybe it can already be described as a failed government with Islamists running around and breaking shit.  Maybe leaving might have the effect of improving the situation.  After this it's clear that I can't trust our government's assessment of the situation.
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Pezevenk

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2019, 08:47:37 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/

The short version.  Our presence in Afghanistan has been a massive dumpster fire and our government has been trying to hide it.

A lot of this has been speculated about.  It's interesting to see it confirmed with evidence and testimony.  It reminds me of every time I watched a terrible big budget movie and wonder why they didn't hire a writer first so that the story could make sense.  It almost makes me think that Trump was right to just want to GTFO of there.

I mean, I've been saying it...
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Pezevenk

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2019, 08:53:51 AM »
They had no concept of Democracy.
It's just another religion to them.

All we needed to do was contain the terrorists
and cut off the country from the rest of the world until
whatever government was in place got tired of them.

It would not have taken 18 years.
That's a bit too harsh a stance on the US, don't you think? Surely your military can learn to behave without having to cut the entire country from the rest of the world.
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Pezevenk

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2019, 08:59:06 AM »
I think part of it is that we put the military in charge of everything.  They're very good at smashing things.  Their skillset is not building a society.

Maybe if we had a different department that specialized in nation building it would be a different story.  Of course the optics of having such a department would look terrible.
Yes, because it is terrible. I can't figure out why this shit keeps happening over and over and over and the only lesson people take out of it is "huh, maybe if we set up a better committee in charge of conquest and subordination things could have gone better". I can't figure out why people don't see how invading a country on the other side of the world and then "building a society" based on what a bunch of shitheads in Washington think better serves their interests is obviously wrong, even after all the evidence to the contrary.
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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2019, 09:06:07 AM »
I think part of it is that we put the military in charge of everything.  They're very good at smashing things.  Their skillset is not building a society.

Maybe if we had a different department that specialized in nation building it would be a different story.  Of course the optics of having such a department would look terrible.
Yes, because it is terrible. I can't figure out why this shit keeps happening over and over and over and the only lesson people take out of it is "huh, maybe if we set up a better committee in charge of conquest and subordination things could have gone better". I can't figure out why people don't see how invading a country on the other side of the world and then "building a society" based on what a bunch of shitheads in Washington think better serves their interests is obviously wrong, even after all the evidence to the contrary.

To be fair it did work in post ww2 Europe and Japan.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2019, 04:08:18 AM »

That's a bit too harsh a stance on the US, don't you think?

We owe nothing to anyone.

Want our money?  Dance.

Threaten death on our nation, die.



Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2019, 08:46:57 AM »

That's a bit too harsh a stance on the US, don't you think?

We owe nothing to anyone.

Want our money?  Dance.

Threaten death on our nation, die.
OK big boy.
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Pezevenk

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2019, 03:27:07 PM »
I think part of it is that we put the military in charge of everything.  They're very good at smashing things.  Their skillset is not building a society.

Maybe if we had a different department that specialized in nation building it would be a different story.  Of course the optics of having such a department would look terrible.
Yes, because it is terrible. I can't figure out why this shit keeps happening over and over and over and the only lesson people take out of it is "huh, maybe if we set up a better committee in charge of conquest and subordination things could have gone better". I can't figure out why people don't see how invading a country on the other side of the world and then "building a society" based on what a bunch of shitheads in Washington think better serves their interests is obviously wrong, even after all the evidence to the contrary.

To be fair it did work in post ww2 Europe and Japan.

It kinda seems like it "worked" if you skip over almost the entire second half of the twentieth century. In most of the places where it just "worked" were cases where nothing was really imposed on the countries, or where there were enough people that wanted the "conversion", and even then it's questionable in many cases. Brilliant American society building experiments are the reason why there is an annual protest ending in the American embassy in Athens on the 17th of November. A lot of Americans aren't very well informed about stuff like the role of the CIA in these countries, or the Truman doctrine, or the backing/establishment of military juntas, or downright insane shit right out of a spy movie like Operation Gladio, and they think people in these countries don't like the US because they're jealous or insane or something.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2019, 12:49:18 AM »
. . . or downright insane shit right out of a spy movie like Operation Gladio, and they think people in these countries don't like the US because they're jealous or insane or something.

World Wars come from Europe.
Do you think the USofA should just wait until you folks fuck shit up again
before we need to step in and waste blood and treasure on you?


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Lorddave

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2019, 02:32:44 AM »
. . . or downright insane shit right out of a spy movie like Operation Gladio, and they think people in these countries don't like the US because they're jealous or insane or something.

World Wars come from Europe.
Do you think the USofA should just wait until you folks fuck shit up again
before we need to step in and waste blood and treasure on you?

In fairness, its worked before.  But when we pre-emptive, it blows up in our face.
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Pezevenk

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2019, 06:06:31 AM »
. . . or downright insane shit right out of a spy movie like Operation Gladio, and they think people in these countries don't like the US because they're jealous or insane or something.

World Wars come from Europe.
Do you think the USofA should just wait until you folks fuck shit up again
before we need to step in and waste blood and treasure on you?
I'm kinda done attempting to seriously respond to your fantasy version of history and world politics. I think I'm just gonna post this list:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

Maybe open a book once in a while too.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 06:08:55 AM by Pezevenk »
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2019, 10:45:47 AM »

I think it's an interweb meme that yanks run around saying how they saved the world twice whilst forgetting actual history, the gory mess they made of south America and of course that they got their asses handed to them on a plate by the Vietnamese, not sure if they do it in irony.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2019, 02:03:31 PM »
Ignoring history is the most patriotic thing we do.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2019, 07:14:21 AM »
blood and treasure on you?
What are you? A pirate?
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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2019, 05:24:31 AM »