A spectacular dumpster fire.

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Crouton

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A spectacular dumpster fire.
« on: December 09, 2019, 11:23:32 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/

The short version.  Our presence in Afghanistan has been a massive dumpster fire and our government has been trying to hide it.

A lot of this has been speculated about.  It's interesting to see it confirmed with evidence and testimony.  It reminds me of every time I watched a terrible big budget movie and wonder why they didn't hire a writer first so that the story could make sense.  It almost makes me think that Trump was right to just want to GTFO of there.
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Lorddave

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2019, 12:01:54 PM »
Wow.
I mean, I'm kinda shocked.  You'd think they would have known that Afghanastan is not America or Europe.  That the culture is very different but no... they tried to Americanize it.  No wonder they hate us.
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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2019, 12:11:32 PM »
It's one of the most surprising things.  We spent a trillion dollars.  Nobody bothered to pick up a history book and read up on the place?
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2019, 12:33:32 PM »
This is insane. 11 million dollars for "lessons learned" but they don't think the public has a right to know about it.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Lorddave

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2019, 12:52:52 PM »
It's one of the most surprising things.  We spent a trillion dollars.  Nobody bothered to pick up a history book and read up on the place?
I think it's all the "We're the greatest country on Earth.  So thus everyone should be like us" mentality America has.

Me, I'd have gone "Ok, y'all figure out what kinda government you want and we'll help ya make it."
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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2019, 01:08:02 PM »
It's one of the most surprising things.  We spent a trillion dollars.  Nobody bothered to pick up a history book and read up on the place?
I think it's all the "We're the greatest country on Earth.  So thus everyone should be like us" mentality America has.

Me, I'd have gone "Ok, y'all figure out what kinda government you want and we'll help ya make it."

In retrospect I'm not sure what I would do.  Maybe blowing up terrorist training camps in a flashy show of power and then declare victory and leave.

I think we would have been better off spending that trillion dollars on renewable energy.
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The Real Celine Dion

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2019, 02:43:44 PM »
I thought everyone knew the Afghan war was a total farce.
You just got Weskered, bitches!

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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2019, 02:55:16 PM »
Yes but how much of a farce is the question.  There's so many interesting points in there.  It says 30% of the Afghans they were training to be soldiers would just sign up for a rifle, then leave, then use that rifle setup their own checkpoints to shake down travelers. 
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The Real Celine Dion

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2019, 02:57:34 PM »
We needed to take care of Al-Quida and all, but after that we should have given them the blueprint for a democratic society and let them deal with it.
You just got Weskered, bitches!

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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2019, 11:04:48 PM »
They had no concept of Democracy.
It's just another religion to them.

All we needed to do was contain the terrorists
and cut off the country from the rest of the world until
whatever government was in place got tired of them.

It would not have taken 18 years.

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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 12:21:42 AM »
Good thing Wise has me blocked.  I'm going to post in his identical thread and fuck with him.
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Shifter

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 01:42:26 AM »
Now given how much America really wanted to Americanise Afghanistan, is it too much a stretch to imagine the 'September 11 attacks' were at the very least, allowed to happen to be the gift that America needed to get in and fuck with the Middle East?

By that I mean, the intelligence agencies knew of the impending attacks and did not try to stop it. I'm not saying they sponsored it but honestly, given this is America - I sadly would not be surprised if that were true.

Almost every other country on Earth knew Afghanistan would never be 'Americanized'. So why did America think it so? They also fucked up their chances on resolving conflicts elsewhere abroad. Do you think North Korea wants to do a deal with America after what they saw America do in Libya? And comments like "We Came, we Saw, he Died".

America's biggest problem is that they just dont think far enough ahead.

After all that money spent, lives lost and destroyed the public should demand to know everything and hold those responsible to account. Because honestly, if the public continues to give the government a free pass to 'do whatever the hell they want', the next dumpster fire will be America.
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Lorddave

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 03:04:18 AM »
Now given how much America really wanted to Americanise Afghanistan, is it too much a stretch to imagine the 'September 11 attacks' were at the very least, allowed to happen to be the gift that America needed to get in and fuck with the Middle East?
It is.  I'm certain they knew about a potential plot involving airplanes but nothing specific.  I mean, can you imagine the kind of people who would go "lets kill a thousand people on American soil just so we can 'fix' the middle east?  No, its more likely they had sketchy and vague intel that was dismissed or not seen as enough information to shut down airports.

Quote
After all that money spent, lives lost and destroyed the public should demand to know everything and hold those responsible to account. Because honestly, if the public continues to give the government a free pass to 'do whatever the hell they want', the next dumpster fire will be America.
America IS a dumpster fire.  Have you seen it?
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 06:28:32 AM »
Afghanistan is a beautiful harsh land steeped in a troubled history, the reason being itís really good at growing opium.
A few facts, the UK invaded twice, way back (Victorian), both times congruent with the opium wars we had with the Qing dynasty in China, drugs have always one of the best ways of undermining a nation, flood cheap narcotics into a market you destabilise the country, pacifying its workforce/potential army and splitting society as those with the vast amounts of wealth generated defend themselves against others who see that wealth and want it.

In the late 70ís early 80ís the Russians wanted control and set up a puppet government, Maggie and Ronnie in the name of all that was holy sent the CIA and SAS to train the Mujahedeen in the use of roadside bombs and guerrilla tactics, who then taught their sons and so on, who managed to force out the Russians using the methods they now use on the US forces (are your Marines aware it was their fathers who taught Afghans how to blow up their own sons?), so the plucky Mujahedeen were the heroes. The CIA were paid in opium for the $3bn worth of weapons.
And the US had no real care what type of government got in as long as the CIA could still get their opium. There was an internal battle in the US that drugs would sort out, that of black consciousness, the burgeoning civil rites movement that looked for a while it would sweep away the white strangle hold on power, until black areas were swamped with copious drugs, cheap guns and bling, swapping Martin Luther King for a paltry 50cents, the dream died. Maggie used the same tactics to destroy a generation to head off potential backlash to the poverty measures and breaking of the unions as demanded by the IMF.
 
Fast forward, the Mujahedeen become the Taliban, same people perhaps slightly more religiously inclined, galvanised by an influx of fighters from Saudi indoctrinated Wahhabi ultraconservatives, in 2001 they burnt pretty much the whole crop, why? The official line is it was un-Islamic or that it was under pressure from the UN to limit heroin production, none of this adds up. More likely to boost prices, the 2 years before they had un-Islamic bumper crops, opium stores well.

The CIA clearly didnít like this a year later the war against terror, invasion and the production in heroin rises.
 


And has risen ever since.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 06:37:26 AM by Jura-Glenlivet II »
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2019, 07:52:25 AM »
America's biggest problem is that they just dont think far enough ahead.

I think our biggest problem (regarding war) is that we've allowed those who profit to run the show. All that money didn't disappear into thin air. A huge chunk of what our military used to do has been transferred to private contractors.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2019, 08:31:10 AM »
I think our biggest problem (regarding war) is that we've allowed those who profit to run the show.
Isn't that the American Way?
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markjo

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2019, 10:13:07 AM »
America's biggest problem is that they just dont think far enough ahead.

I think our biggest problem (regarding war) is that we've allowed those who profit to run the show.
I disagree.  I think that the biggest problem is that no one had a plan for what to do after the war.
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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2019, 10:19:22 AM »
I think part of it is that we put the military in charge of everything.  They're very good at smashing things.  Their skillset is not building a society.

Maybe if we had a different department that specialized in nation building it would be a different story.  Of course the optics of having such a department would look terrible.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2019, 10:20:08 AM »
We could probably hire a lifestyle coach to do it.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Crouton

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2019, 10:23:00 AM »
Send in Dr. Phil!
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Shifter

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2019, 12:51:44 PM »
America's biggest problem is that they just dont think far enough ahead.

I think our biggest problem (regarding war) is that we've allowed those who profit to run the show.
I disagree.  I think that the biggest problem is that no one had a plan for what to do after the war.

Was there even a plan to finish the war?
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2019, 12:53:42 PM »
He thinks the war is over, I suppose.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2019, 01:52:32 AM »
America's biggest problem is that they just dont think far enough ahead.

I think our biggest problem (regarding war) is that we've allowed those who profit to run the show.
I disagree.  I think that the biggest problem is that no one had a plan for what to do after the war.
Seems they had lots of plans.  The problem is that the plans were shit and incompetently executed.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2019, 04:51:19 AM »
First of all....I don't see how the OP can be a surprise to anyone. That surprises me more than the OP.


I think part of it is that we put the military in charge of everything.  They're very good at smashing things.  Their skillset is not building a society.

Maybe if we had a different department that specialized in nation building it would be a different story.  Of course the optics of having such a department would look terrible.

Lol, right.... Our moronic, absolutely corrupt "leaders" would do an amazing job "fixing" other countries.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2019, 05:15:31 AM »
If everyone is equal, nobody sucks.

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Shifter

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2019, 05:26:19 AM »
If everyone is equal, nobody sucks.

Or everyone sucks
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Bullwinkle

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2019, 05:34:53 AM »

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markjo

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2019, 06:24:14 AM »
He thinks the war is over, I suppose.
I suppose that I didn't realize that there was ever a declaration of war.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2019, 07:01:19 AM »
He thinks the war is over, I suppose.
I suppose that I didn't realize that there was ever a declaration of war.

You didn't mind calling it war when you disagreed with me. Have you changed your mind?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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markjo

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Re: A spectacular dumpster fire.
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2019, 07:50:44 AM »
He thinks the war is over, I suppose.
I suppose that I didn't realize that there was ever a declaration of war.

You didn't mind calling it war when you disagreed with me. Have you changed your mind?
It depends on how pedantic I'm feeling at any given moment.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.