Tesla is making an El Camino!

Stop whingeing about crumple zones people, this should be allowed to kill at least one person when you own it, as it's so green, and what is more green than population reduction, win win.

I just wish it was a bit sexier. like.

Now that is sexy. And it can clearly tow about 20 metric tonnes.
May have to extend my garage a bit.
I hope it has a reverse camera, parallel parking it may be tough.

Stop whingeing about crumple zones people, this should be allowed to kill at least one person when you own it, as it's so green, and what is more green than population reduction, win win.

I just wish it was a bit sexier. like.

Good for the rural sort.  Not so much help in the city.

Quote from: MaNaeSWolf on November 26, 2019, 10:10:27 PM

If you want to see vapourware go look at every motor show ever from all the other manufacturers.

I'm sure.  But do any ever put an exact price on a vehicle that hasn't finished the design phase yet, let alone a finalised production process?  How can he possibly say $39,000  - he's just pulled that out his arse.

Musk himself has said they are still currently trying to work out how to create a manufacturing process for the alloy they are using.  Now chuck enough engineers at a problem and I'm sure they will crack it (a long with everything else that still needs doing) but when they manage this is another thing.  I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it in 2020.

If we're to use their Model 3 as a guide then they'll be a year late, have trouble keeping up with demand, the styling might change a little but not dramatically and the price will be similar but they'll add a lot options that will jack up the price by quite a bit.

As MaeNaeSWolf said, this ain't their first rodeo.  It's still possible for them to completely fuck this up though.

If you want to see vapourware go look at every motor show ever from all the other manufacturers. They are the reason we are still waiting for the flying car.

*sigh* Concept cars that were never intended for production are not considered vaporware.

The issue of stamping out the stainless steel shell in not that complex.

Actual mass production production lines for vehicles are extremely hard to get right.

Heck, even if it does cost more than what he says it will, who exactly did he scam? A bunch of people who put $100 refundable deposit for a vehicle that is 2 years away.

Where did I say it was a scam?  I said it was clever a marketing trick - nobody is getting scammed.  As you say, it's a refundable $100 - making it meaningless. Yet he can trumpet "200,000 orders".  Musk is a very good marketeer who understand modern media better than most CEOs  -look how many people (including us) are now talking about his company.

Why are you so emotionally devoted to his claims?

I could say the same to you.  I'm not emotional, just having a bit of a debate - I didn't even start this thread - I'm just calling out Musk's bullshit.  If you want to see emotionally involved people, check it his many fanbois.

Lego=1 Tesla=0

no wing mirrors.

no wing mirrors.

Everything can be cameras. Instead of mirrors or windows, you have screens in the car showing you instead

Now that would be cool. Just hope nothing bad happens to the electronics while driving

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 27, 2019, 02:50:27 PM

no wing mirrors.

Everything can be cameras. Instead of mirrors or windows, you have screens in the car showing you instead

Now that would be cool. Just hope nothing bad happens to the electronics while driving

I wonder about that too.  In the US I think, might be wrong, the rear review mirrors aren't actually required.  So replacing that with a camera and a monitor is no problem.  Side view mirrors are required though.  So I don't know if they could get away with that.

Quote from: Shifter on November 27, 2019, 04:21:50 PM

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on November 27, 2019, 02:50:27 PM

no wing mirrors.

Everything can be cameras. Instead of mirrors or windows, you have screens in the car showing you instead

Now that would be cool. Just hope nothing bad happens to the electronics while driving

I wonder about that too.  In the US I think, might be wrong, the rear review mirrors aren't actually required.  So replacing that with a camera and a monitor is no problem.  Side view mirrors are required though.  So I don't know if they could get away with that.

Does anyone think that self driving cars use side mirrors?

Does anyone think that self driving cars use side mirrors?

Well, full self driving cars don't exist, and probably won't for quite a while, so it's probably moot.

Quote from: markjo on November 27, 2019, 06:30:58 PM

Does anyone think that self driving cars use side mirrors?

Well, full self driving cars don't exist, and probably won't for quite a while, so it's probably moot.

Waymo would disagree, although they are rather GEO location locked.
Full self driving exists in 2019, expect a lot more in 2020.

I think we must mean something different by "full self driving" - it usually means fully autonomous vehicles that can drive round highways and cities without any human intervention.  What Musk calls "robotaxis".  Expert opinion generally thinks these are at least 10 years away:

Auto and tech industry experts predict it will be at least 12 years before fully autonomous vehicles are being sold to private buyers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/29/experts-say-its-at-least-a-decade-before-you-can-buy-a-self-driving-car.html

or Steve Wozniak's take

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/300927-steve-wozniak-no-self-driving-cars-in-my-lifetime

The fist time a car drove itself in a track with no human intervention was the 1980's. That is when we had self driving cars. Its been here for a while, its not coming.

The technology has been slowly improving since the 80's, and especially since machine learning came along.

Self driving, like all technology, wont just appear and suddenly no one everywhere will have to call a uber after a good night out anymore. It will phase in with the crappy versions first, that do lane keeping, emergency breaking ext. And over time get better at those things, and keep including new things it can do.

By the time YOU experience self-driving cars, early adopters will already be looking for the new thing.
If you have a Tesla with Autopilot, your getting the first glimps now.

In 20 years there will be some angry wife that wants drive her Tesla through a security control gate, onto a harbor jetty and park it on her soon to be ex-husbands new yacht. But because the Tesla wont allow her to do all that people will say the software is not there yet.

Self driving will happen in incremental steps.

One day it will just be part of everyone's lives and most will not know how it happened.

If your asking for full-self-driving with no intervention by people in any circumstance ever conceived.
That will come soon after AI gains the "singularity", i.e. super intelligent general intelligence. This may be never to 10's of years away.

If your asking for full-self-driving with no intervention by people in any circumstance ever conceived.
That will come soon after AI gains the "singularity", i.e. super intelligent general intelligence. This may be never to 10's of years away.

Yep, I broadly agree with that, though Musk wouldn't.  At least in public.   However I think we will see lorries driving up and down highways between warehouses within a few years. 

Yep, I broadly agree with that, though Musk wouldn't.  At least in public.   However I think we will see lorries driving up and down highways between warehouses within a few years. 

Im not sure what he believes.
I dont think he is a naive idiot, you dont as much done as he has by mistake.
So Id like to think he has a very realistic view of the technology, much better than any of us.

But he is in the business of selling cars, so I 100% think he will say things to make em sell.
And he seems to be exceptionally good at that.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on November 28, 2019, 09:15:46 AM

Yep, I broadly agree with that, though Musk wouldn't.  At least in public.   However I think we will see lorries driving up and down highways between warehouses within a few years. 

Im not sure what he believes.
I dont think he is a naive idiot, you dont as much done as he has by mistake.
So Id like to think he has a very realistic view of the technology, much better than any of us.

But he is in the business of selling cars, so I 100% think he will say things to make em sell.
And he seems to be exceptionally good at that.

This is no El Camino!

The people ordering an El Camino are obviously in an altered states of mind - a literal form of hypnosis. Non-penetrable. Amazing the success of "Operation Brainwash the Sheep in America". They, have had enormous success since Hiroshima 1945 or even Sarajevo 1914.

The people ordering an El Camino are obviously in an altered states of mind - a literal form of hypnosis. Non-penetrable. Amazing the success of "Operation Brainwash the Sheep in America". They, have had enormous success since Hiroshima 1945 or even Sarajevo 1914.

The people ordering an El Camino are obviously in an altered states of mind - a literal form of hypnosis. Non-penetrable. Amazing the success of "Operation Brainwash the Sheep in America". They, have had enormous success since Hiroshima 1945 or even Sarajevo 1914.

I hear they have an optional toilet.

Quote from: MaNaeSWolf on November 28, 2019, 08:27:08 AM

If your asking for full-self-driving with no intervention by people in any circumstance ever conceived.
That will come soon after AI gains the "singularity", i.e. super intelligent general intelligence. This may be never to 10's of years away.

Yep, I broadly agree with that, though Musk wouldn't.  At least in public.   However I think we will see lorries driving up and down highways between warehouses within a few years.

There is literally a self driving bus in my city thats been in testing for almost a year.  It now goes up to 40 kph.
And by testing I mean there is a person in the small bus in case of emergency but otherwise it functions like a normal, albiet slower, bus.

 I mean there is a person in the small bus in case of emergency but otherwise it functions like a normal, albiet slower, bus.

Sounds like a boss I once had.   

Quote from: Heiwa on November 28, 2019, 06:36:43 PM

The people ordering an El Camino are obviously in an altered states of mind - a literal form of hypnosis. Non-penetrable. Amazing the success of "Operation Brainwash the Sheep in America". They, have had enormous success since Hiroshima 1945 or even Sarajevo 1914.

Sorry you don't understand that Elon is just a poor actor but a fairly good entertainer working for his masters.

Quote from: rabinoz on November 28, 2019, 09:46:59 PM

Quote from: Heiwa on November 28, 2019, 06:36:43 PM

The people ordering an El Camino are obviously in an altered states of mind - a literal form of hypnosis. Non-penetrable. Amazing the success of "Operation Brainwash the Sheep in America". They, have had enormous success since Hiroshima 1945 or even Sarajevo 1914.

Sorry you don't understand that Elon is just a poor actor but a fairly good entertainer working for his masters.

Okay Boomer

There is literally a self driving bus in my city thats been in testing for almost a year.  It now goes up to 40 kph.
And by testing I mean there is a person in the small bus in case of emergency but otherwise it functions like a normal, albiet slower, bus.

People have no idea that the rate of technology is exploding.

Its just that technology is not evenly distributed, so while some cities are experimenting with driver-less buses, others think its impossible because their city does not have something similar.

By the time self driving is everywhere, most people will be saying the artificial intelligence cant happen while others are already using it.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on November 28, 2019, 09:15:46 AM

Quote from: MaNaeSWolf on November 28, 2019, 08:27:08 AM

If your asking for full-self-driving with no intervention by people in any circumstance ever conceived.
That will come soon after AI gains the "singularity", i.e. super intelligent general intelligence. This may be never to 10's of years away.

Yep, I broadly agree with that, though Musk wouldn't.  At least in public.   However I think we will see lorries driving up and down highways between warehouses within a few years.

There is literally a self driving bus in my city thats been in testing for almost a year.  It now goes up to 40 kph.
And by testing I mean there is a person in the small bus in case of emergency but otherwise it functions like a normal, albiet slower, bus.

Get back to me when they get rid of the person.

Quote from: Lorddave on November 28, 2019, 10:11:23 PM

There is literally a self driving bus in my city thats been in testing for almost a year.  It now goes up to 40 kph.
And by testing I mean there is a person in the small bus in case of emergency but otherwise it functions like a normal, albiet slower, bus.

People have no idea that the rate of technology is exploding.

Its just that technology is not evenly distributed, so while some cities are experimenting with driver-less buses, others think its impossible because their city does not have something similar.

By the time self driving is everywhere, most people will be saying the artificial intelligence cant happen while others are already using it.

Talking about exploding technology, Hiroshima 1945 comes to mind. US burnt down a town and said a nuclear bomb had exploded. Fake News!
Talking about self driving vehicles Apollo 11 1969 comes to mind. Back then US used three alcoholics to land on the Moon. Typical Hollywood. Great show and Fake News!
Latest hoax is artificial intelligence so we don't need clowns like Elon Musk to present the madness.

People have no idea that the rate of technology is exploding.

Do you?

Talking about exploding technology, Hiroshima 1945 comes to mind. US burnt down a town and said a nuclear bomb had exploded. Fake News!
Talking about self driving vehicles Apollo 11 1969 comes to mind. Back then US used three alcoholics to land on the Moon.

So you haven't read of all the decisions made by the astronauts on the various Lunar missions.
Without those human actions some would have been unnecessarily aborted and at least one possible stuck on the Moon.

Human intelligence is often very useful in cases like that. It's a pity that yours seem to have withered away.

Typical Hollywood. Great show and Fake News!
Latest hoax is artificial intelligence so we don't need clowns like Elon Musk to present the madness.

You should really lay off that Absolut. It seems to have addled your brain.
That artificial intelligence might be better than your atrophied intelligence.

Quote from: MaNaeSWolf on November 26, 2019, 12:03:54 AM

Dont know why people are wondering about crumple zones. There is a lot of space between the front of the vehicle and the passengers, I recon about a meter. Its not as if this is Teslas first vehicle. It weighs a lot more than a Model 3, so you cant just use the nose of a Model3 and think you have solved the problem. It will need to be stronger to make a crash survivable. I mean stainless steel is only a little stronger if at all stronger than steel, and they already make 99% of all cars out of that.

However, I do wonder if there will be wipers on the front to remove the blood stains from pedestrian strikes, cause it looks like those soft bodies are not gonna dent this thing.

If there is no give on the shell of the car that energy gets transferred somewhere - to the occupants inside the car. This is why they made crumple zones a thing in the first place

And while it may not be much if you hit a tree or wall with this car, you go from 80km/h - 0km/h in an instant. G force killer. A crumple zone does allow the car to slow done just a tad mitigating some of the damage to the occupants

And yeah, hitting pedestrians is an almost death sentence from this car. Great for hitting kangaroos though. No damage to the car as opposed to thousands of dollars damage in crumple cars.

I hope Elon can deliver on his promise but this concept will need a radical overhaul before countries like Australia would allow it for sale here. Maybe the US is a little more lax on the safety 

Crumple Zones are BS.  If they mattered, crash tests would be done at highways speeds and not 35mph (or whatever the fuck that is in kmph).  As well, you can have all the crumple zone you want, but if you get plowed into by a semi, or wrap your car around a tree/pole, it isn't going to make a difference.