Radar ranging in the Solar System

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rvlvr

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #120 on: November 22, 2019, 04:37:35 AM »
Shit. Rab just proved you can kill Venus with a fist. It's all over now.

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rabinoz

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #121 on: November 22, 2019, 04:40:36 AM »
So no, I did not PROVE "that the sun is only 600 m in diameter"

You sure did, so it's too late to file a complaint now.

The sun simply cannot be 600 m in diameter
Stop repeating utter balderdash! Nothing I said PROVES "that the sun is only 600 m in diameter".

Then post something on the topic, "Radar ranging in the Solar System".

But you can't do that so you have to keep up this totally irrelevant baloney!

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rabinoz

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #122 on: November 22, 2019, 04:48:19 AM »
Shit. Rab just proved you can kill Venus with a fist. It's all over now.
No, Sandokhan claims that I proved that the sun was 600 m in diameter and that's a bit big to kill with a human fist.
But undoubtedly the Half Tiger Man, Sandokhan, Flat Earth Sultan and Flat Earth Scientist could smash that with one karate blow of his mighty fist!
He seems to claim he is smarter than all the astronomers that ever lived so we should take note! But I do wish he'd post something on the topic!

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #123 on: November 22, 2019, 04:48:59 AM »
Nothing I said PROVES "that the sun is only 600 m in diameter".

Everything you said in that message proves that a(Sun) = ZERO, thus you have provided the very best proof that indeed the diameter of the Sun is only 600 meters.

Your achievement is crystal clear: you EQUATED the orbital angular velocity with the solar surface gravity in a single equation.

In fact we might even think that you are a FE in disguise: you have served the FES very well.

Of course, the surface gravity of the Sun is roughly 274 m/s2!

And here is another way to check that 274 m/s2 value for the Sun's surface gravity.

Average distance from earth to Sun: 149,597,870,000 m.
Radius of Sun: 695,510,000 m
Sidereal year: 31,558,150 secs
Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s
Hence Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun = (1.99099 x 10-7)2 x (149,597,870,000) = 0.005930 m/s2.

But the (Sun's gravity at the Earth) = (Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun) =  0.005930 m/s2.
Now the gravity due to the Sun decreases as 1/(distance from the sun)2.
The Earth is 149,597,870,000 m from the Sun's centre and the Sun's surface is 695,510,000 m from the Sun's centre.

Therefore the Sun's gravity at its surface = 0.005930 x (149,597,870,000/695,510,000)2 = 274.35 m/s2 - QED.

So that agrees quite well with the surface g of the Sun as calculated from its mass, radius and the Universal Gravitational Constant - funny that!

Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:

Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s

If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Then, we are left with the centrifugal acceleration: ac = 0.0063 m/s2.

Algebraic approach to time-delay data analysis: orbiting case
K Rajesh Nayak and J-Y Vinet

https://www.cosmos.esa.int/documents/946106/1027345/TDI_FOR_.PDF/2bb32fba-1b8a-438d-9e95-bc40c32debbe

This is an IOP article, published by the prestigious journal Classic and Quantum Gravity:

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0264-9381/22/10/040/meta

https://image.ibb.co/mpRKjS/lisa5.jpg

In this work, we estimate the effects due to the Sagnac phase by taking the realistic model for LISA orbital motion.

This work is organized as follows: in section 2, we make an estimate of Sagnac phase
for individual laser beams of LISA by taking realistic orbital motion. Here we show that, in general, the residual laser noise because of Sagnac phase is much larger than earlier estimates.

For the LISA geometry, R⊙/L is of the order 30 and the orbital contribution to the Sagnac phase is larger by this factor.


https://image.ibb.co/iMSdB7/lisa3.jpg

Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:

Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s

If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Since the GPS satellites ARE NOT registering/recording the missing ORBITAL SAGNAC, that means that the Earth is not orbiting the Sun.


Do you understand what you have done? YOU have just provided the BEST PROOF of my statement: the diameter of the Sun indeed has some 600 meters.

By your own analysis, a(sun) = ZERO.

Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #124 on: November 22, 2019, 05:39:08 AM »
Quote
If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Not that this still has anything to do with the main topic of the question still but of course the value of g on the Sun has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the Earth is orbiting it or not.  g = GM/r^2. In the Suns case using M as 1.9x10^30kg and r= 6.9x10^8m gives a value for g(Sun) as 266.18m.s2.  Where does that involve whether the Earth is orbiting the Sun or not?

You will note that there is only one M and only one r here. The Suns mass and radius. So we only need concern ourselves with the Sun. The value of what you call a(Sun) is therefore totally independent of whether the Earth is orbiting it or not.  The only way what I call g(Sun) would change is if the mass or the radius of the Sun changed.

Notice  also there is no mention of Sagnac effects or indeed GPS satellites here either!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 05:47:07 AM by Nucleosynthesis »

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Macarios

  • 2073
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #125 on: November 22, 2019, 06:18:06 AM »
Nothing I said PROVES "that the sun is only 600 m in diameter".

Everything you said in that message proves that a(Sun) = ZERO, thus you have provided the very best proof that indeed the diameter of the Sun is only 600 meters.

So, if you say that the Sun is at the height of 12 km,
and we see the Sun having angular diameter of 0.5 degrees,
then what is the physical size of the Sun?

What is your claim on this?
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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Yes

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #126 on: November 22, 2019, 08:26:17 AM »
🤔 What's the ether density near the sun, I wonder.  Ether density changes have all sorts of magically convenient effects near the Moon and Venus.  I guess one could use this to explain any discrepancies at all.

Sun doesn't shrink in angular size as it travels away from you?  That's because of changes in ether density.  Can't prove it wrong.

Sun illuminates the tops of clouds and buildings during the day, and the bottoms of clouds and ceilings during dawn and dusk?  Obviously the ether density is shifting the relative angular sagnac effect.

Midnight Sun in near the poles?  Changes in the ether density at extreme latitudes causes illumination.

Ether magic is also why the black sun can't be seen at any time except during a solar eclipse.  And ether density changes at that time also hide the moon, coincidentally.

Do you feel bad at what you see when you look in a mirror?  Don't worry, that's just ether density shifts that is causing the unsightly appearance.
Signatures are displayed at the bottom of each post or personal message. BBCode and smileys may be used in your signature.

Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #127 on: November 22, 2019, 12:38:32 PM »
Question: why is rabinoz answering the responses provided to jackblack?
Because this is a public forum, and everyone is free to object to your garbage.
They are not messages intended for one person.
They are factually incorrect claims about reality.

If you want a private conversation, use the PM function.

But not from almost 300,000 km/sec down to 50 m/s or whatever!
Everything depends on the DENSITY OF THE ETHER.
Then start proving it and doing the equations to show just how much it is slowed down.
Also, does the wavelength also matter?
If so, HOW?

So far all you have done is made a bunch of baseless assertions with absolutely no substance behind them; and spam a bunch of nonsense to try and derail yet another thread.

How about you start dealing with what has been said?
I asked a few simple questions you seemed completely incapable of answered (just like normal).

Again, if you wish to claim that it isn't due to refraction through a prism you need to provide a viable alternative.
You have no justification for why the prism is needed if it is just an effect of the aperture.
You have no justification for why red is on one side and blue is on the other.
You have no justification for your claim at all.

Meanwhile, mainstream science can explain it just fine.

Remember this?
Yes, we all remember it, from the thread were you repeatedly refuted and then fled because you were completely incapable of defending your claims.
If you wish to discus it, go back there.

You PROVED this to be true.
Lying about what people have done doesn't help your case in any way.
It just shows just how far detached from reality you are.

Now are you actually capable of addressing the topic and backing up your insane claims for once in your life?

You wish to claim that the radar ranging is compelled wrong because your magic dome of impossibility magically slows down light so much (and without dependence upon wavelength) to produce the observed values.

How does this work with the moon and Venus give such vastly different times?
Can you show the math to produce these times, or just dismiss it?

Can you provide a rational objection, with justification, to the fact that the refractive index of materials is dependent upon wavelength, such as by explaining what is observed when light passes through a prism?

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #128 on: November 22, 2019, 12:56:44 PM »
Yes, we all remember it, from the thread were you repeatedly refuted and then fled because you were completely incapable of defending your claims.

Here is the thread:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83931.0

You were unable to provide any arguments at all: just simple grunts of desperate denials designed to fool your viewers.

Everyone here can see that you are trolling this forum: now, it takes less than 15 seconds to defeat you, no matter what the subject is which comes up for discussion.

Just take a look at your delusional way of thinking, you were defeated on each and every page of that thread, in no ambiguous way, yet here you are parading in front of us.


I can prove immediately that the Earth is completely stationary, and there's nothing you can do about it.

On a stationary Earth, I can make any claim I want, concerning any subject matter. You bring up "mainstream science", I am telling you that this mainstream science is based on the notion of a constant speed of light: real science begins with a VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT, as clearly exemplified by Maxwell's original set of equations.

Your pal has just linked the orbital angular velocity to the solar surface gravity.

Of course, the surface gravity of the Sun is roughly 274 m/s2!

And here is another way to check that 274 m/s2 value for the Sun's surface gravity.

Average distance from earth to Sun: 149,597,870,000 m.
Radius of Sun: 695,510,000 m
Sidereal year: 31,558,150 secs
Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s
Hence Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun = (1.99099 x 10-7)2 x (149,597,870,000) = 0.005930 m/s2.

But the (Sun's gravity at the Earth) = (Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun) =  0.005930 m/s2.
Now the gravity due to the Sun decreases as 1/(distance from the sun)2.
The Earth is 149,597,870,000 m from the Sun's centre and the Sun's surface is 695,510,000 m from the Sun's centre.

Therefore the Sun's gravity at its surface = 0.005930 x (149,597,870,000/695,510,000)2 = 274.35 m/s2 - QED.

So that agrees quite well with the surface g of the Sun as calculated from its mass, radius and the Universal Gravitational Constant - funny that!

Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:

Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s

If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Then, we are left with the centrifugal acceleration: ac = 0.0063 m/s2.

Algebraic approach to time-delay data analysis: orbiting case
K Rajesh Nayak and J-Y Vinet

https://www.cosmos.esa.int/documents/946106/1027345/TDI_FOR_.PDF/2bb32fba-1b8a-438d-9e95-bc40c32debbe

This is an IOP article, published by the prestigious journal Classic and Quantum Gravity:

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0264-9381/22/10/040/meta

In this work, we estimate the effects due to the Sagnac phase by taking the realistic model for LISA orbital motion.

This work is organized as follows: in section 2, we make an estimate of Sagnac phase
for individual laser beams of LISA by taking realistic orbital motion. Here we show that, in general, the residual laser noise because of Sagnac phase is much larger than earlier estimates.

For the LISA geometry, R⊙/L is of the order 30 and the orbital contribution to the Sagnac phase is larger by this factor.




Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:

Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s

If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Since the GPS satellites ARE NOT registering/recording the missing ORBITAL SAGNAC, that means that the Earth is not orbiting the Sun.


Do you understand what you have done? YOU have just provided the BEST PROOF of my statement: the diameter of the Sun indeed has some 600 meters.

By your own analysis, a(sun) = ZERO.


Dr. Massimo Tinto, Principal Scientist at CALTECH, Jet Propulsion Laboratory

https://web.archive.org/web/20161019095630/http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/2003papers/paper34.pdf

In the SSB frame, the differences between back-forth delay times are very much larger than has been previously recognized. The reason is in the aberration due to motion and changes of orientation in the SSB frame. With a velocity V=30 km/s, the light-transit times of light signals in opposing directions (Li, and L’i) will differ by as much as 2VL (a few thousands km).

SSB = solar system barycenter

Published in the Physical Review D

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ is the U.S. Naval Observatory website


https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0310017.pdf

Within this frame, which we can assume to be Solar System Barycentric (SSB), the differences between back-forth delay times that occur are in fact thousands of kilometers, very much larger than has been previously recognized by us or others. The problem is not rotation per se, but rather aberration due to motion and changes of orientation in the SSB frame.

The kinematics of the LISA  orbit brings in the effects of motion at several orders of magnitude larger than any previous papers on TDI have addressed. The instantaneous rotation axis of LISA swings about the Sun at 30 km/sec, and on any leg the transit times of light signals in opposing directions can differ by as much as 1000 km.

Aberration due to LISA’s orbit about the Sun dominates its instantaneous rotation.

The ORBITAL SAGNAC calculated at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory amounts to an admitted difference in path lengths of 1,000 kilometers.

The difference in path lengths for the rotational Sagnac is 14.4 kilometers:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0306125.pdf (Dr. Daniel Shaddock, Jet Propulsion Laboratory)

https://gwic.ligo.org/thesisprize/2011/yu_thesis.pdf (pg. 63)


Formula for the orbital SAGNAC EFFECT derived by Dr. Massimo Tinto, from CALTECH: 2VL

Formula for the rotational SAGNAC EFFECT derived by Dr. Daniel Shaddock, from CALTECH: 4Aω/c^2

Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:

Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s

If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Since the GPS satellites ARE NOT registering/recording the missing ORBITAL SAGNAC, that means that the Earth is not orbiting the Sun.


Nobody even looks in your direction, you are useless here.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 01:01:37 PM by sandokhan »

Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #129 on: November 22, 2019, 01:24:45 PM »
Yes, we all remember it, from the thread were you repeatedly refuted and then fled because you were completely incapable of defending your claims.
Here is the thread:
You were unable to provide any arguments at all: just simple grunts of desperate denials designed to fool your viewers.
And there you go projecting again.

You were repeatedly asked to defend your claim of 600 m, yet were completely incapable of doing so.
If you wish to change that, go back to the thread and defend your claims. Stop bringing it up here.

Here you need to defend your insane claims of a magical impossible aether magically slowing down light to virtually standstill speeds and magically effecting it by vastly different amount for different objects to make it seem like the known model of the solar system is correct. It is as if you have nature conspiring against you.

it takes less than 15 seconds to defeat you
If that was the case you would have defeated me long ago, instead of just repeating the same pathetic spam and insults.
Your idea of "defeating" seems to be repeating the same refuted spam from a long dead thread where you have already been defeated and were completely incapable of even beginning to justify your insane claims.

If you need to completely ignore what has been said on the topic and just repeatedly spam then you have no chance of defeating anyone as you aren't even trying to.

If you want to even try to defeat me here you need to explain why the prism is needed, why red appears on one side, why blue appears on the other, and why reducing the width of the beam of light allows the spectrum to be obtained.
That is something you are yet to even attempt, likely because you know you can't.

Reposting the same Sagnac nonsense is just you showing you have been defeated.

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #130 on: November 22, 2019, 01:30:57 PM »
Newton has already explained to you what is going on, but you won't listen.

Newton believed that there are TWO GRAVITATIONAL FORCES AT WORK:

1. Terrestrial gravity

2. Planetary/stellar gravity

Newton still thought that the planets and Sun were kept apart by 'some secret principle of unsociableness in the ethers of their vortices,' and that gravity was due to a circulating ether.

Isaac Newton speculated that gravity was caused by a flow of ether, or space, into celestial bodies. He discussed this theory in letters to Oldenburg, Halley, and Boyle.

The LOCAL-ETHER MODEL is completely proven by RUDERFER's theorem, which is the modern version of Newton's ideas on the subject.

In order to explain refraction, in fact, Newton's Opticks (1704) postulated an "Aethereal Medium" transmitting vibrations faster than light, by which light (when overtaken) is put into "Fits of easy Reflexion and easy Transmission" (causing refraction and diffraction).


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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #131 on: November 22, 2019, 01:50:45 PM »
Here you need to defend your insane claims of a magical impossible aether magically slowing down light to virtually standstill speeds and magically effecting it by vastly different amount for different objects to make it seem like the known model of the solar system is correct. It is as if you have nature conspiring against you.

The US NAVY not only makes the very same claims, but it has already built such devices.

Tesla offered the first blueprint of such an ether shield, which can produce INVISIBILITY for an object as large as a ship.

"For an answer, we need to review a 2018 patent awarded to a Navy scientist, Dr. Salvatore Cezar Pais, which is titled: “The High Energy Electromagnetic Field Generator” (HEEMFG).

It is a feature of the present invention to provide a method and apparatus for generating an impenetrable defensive shield to Sea and Land as well as Space-based military and civilian assets, protecting these assets from such threats as Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles, Radar Evading Cruise Missiles, Top Attack for Main Battle Tanks (land and sea based systems), as well as counteracting the effects of solar-induced Coronal Mass Ejections or defending critical military satellites in an ASAT role (space based system).

https://patents.google.com/patent/US10135366B2/

The scientist behind the HEEMFG is no rogue inventor but works at the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) on advanced technology concepts. On two occasions, Dr. James Sheehy, the Chief Technology Officer of the Naval Aviation Enterprise, a US Navy affiliated organization, has intervened on behalf of Dr. Pais’ patent applications deeming them “operable” .

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2194598#msg2194598


GERTSENSHTEIN-ZEL'DOVICH EFFECT: GRAVITON-PHOTON CONVERSION

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2194420#msg2194420

The Gertsenshtein-Zel'dovich can be used to create electron-positron pairs torsion fields (dextrorotatory subquarks-laevorotatory subquarks) out of the ether wave lattice. This torsion field will then act as a shield against the normal flow/propagation of ether waves (gravitational and electromagnetic), forming an invisible ball lightning sphere around the spacecraft.


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rabinoz

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #132 on: November 22, 2019, 02:14:58 PM »
Nothing I said PROVES "that the sun is only 600 m in diameter".

Everything you said in that message proves that a(Sun) = ZERO, thus you have provided the very best proof that indeed the diameter of the Sun is only 600 meters.

Your achievement is crystal clear: you EQUATED the orbital angular velocity with the solar surface gravity in a single equation.
Stop proving you total incompetence! One cannot legitimately "EQUATE the orbital angular velocity with the solar surface gravity"!
As I explained before angular velocity has the dimensions Time-1 and surface gravity has the dimensions Length.Time-2!

So they can never be equated! I may have quite legitimately derived solar surface gravity from the Sidereal yea, the distance from earth to Sun and the Radius of Sun.

And the values I use were, I believe, from YOU own reference!

Quote from: sandokhan
In fact we might even think that you are a FE in disguise: you have served the FES very well.
More of the usual Sandokhanian garbage, dream on!

Quote from: sandokhan
Of course, the surface gravity of the Sun is roughly 274 m/s2!

And here is another way to check that 274 m/s2 value for the Sun's surface gravity.

Average distance from earth to Sun: 149,597,870,000 m.
Radius of Sun: 695,510,000 m
Sidereal year: 31,558,150 secs
Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s
Hence Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun = (1.99099 x 10-7)2 x (149,597,870,000) = 0.005930 m/s2.

But the (Sun's gravity at the Earth) = (Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun) =  0.005930 m/s2.
Now the gravity due to the Sun decreases as 1/(distance from the sun)2.
The Earth is 149,597,870,000 m from the Sun's centre and the Sun's surface is 695,510,000 m from the Sun's centre.

Therefore the Sun's gravity at its surface = 0.005930 x (149,597,870,000/695,510,000)2 = 274.35 m/s2 - QED.

So that agrees quite well with the surface g of the Sun as calculated from its mass, radius and the Universal Gravitational Constant - funny that!
Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:
Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s
No, Mr Sandokhan, it does NOT "REST ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT"!
Have YOU lost the ability to read and understand plain English? Did you not read, "And here is another way to check that 274 m/s2 value for the Sun's surface gravity."

Can't YOU understand what another means!

Quote from: sandokhan
If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.
Everything from this point on is YOUR words, not mine!

But it does not follow that simply that "If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) . . . . IS EQUAL TO ZERO" because YOU ignore another way to calculate gsun!

I posted this before but, as usual, you ignored it!
The surface gravity of the Sun is about 274 m/s2
Let's put your word to the test.
Here is a reference which does illustrate the correctness of the Clayton model:

https://books.google.ro/books?id=ue2D__e06XkC&pg=PT146&lpg=PT146&dq=clayton+model+accuracy+stellar+pressure&source=bl&ots=nw7jNgMv4i&sig=ACfU3U1JJ5IALZvJlJw3avQmR0XQXHjnnQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicyeGX0uflAhURPFAKHWMuBi0Q6AEwBnoECAkQAg#v=onepage&q=clayton%20model%20accuracy%20stellar%20pressure&f=false
This book? The Physics of Stars, 2nd Edition by A. C. Phillips
Quote from: sandokhan
"We shall see that the Clayton model can yield reasonably correct results when applied to the sun."
. . . . . . . . . .
M = 1.989 x 1030 kg
G = gr2/m(r)
Look in YOUR reference, "The Physics of Stars, 2nd Edition" by A. C. Phillips and find:
Quote
1.4 THE SUN
TABLE 1.2 The main physical properties of the sun. The measured properties are the mass,
radius, oblateness, photon luminosity, and surface temperature.
Property   
Value
Mass    Mo = 1.99 x 1030 kg
Radius    Ro = 6.96 x 108 m
In Ricks Cosmology Tutorial: Chapter 11  Stellar Structure Part 1 we find "The central pressure from Equ.(22) is also given above (using G = 6.67 x 10-11 in MKSA units)"
So from your reference the mass of the Sun is 1.99 x 1030 kg and the radius is 6.96 x 108 m
And your next equation can be rearranged to gsun = G x m(r)/r2.

Hence from your own equation and your own references gsun = G x m(r)/r2 = (6.67 x 10-11 x 1.99 x 1030)/6.96 x 108)2 = 274.0 m/s2.
See "that value" again and orbital angular velocity has never been mentioned! - Funny that crops up again

Now run away with you ridiculous claim that I proved you 600 m diameter Sun - nothing I posted ever came up with such a value.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 03:52:25 PM by rabinoz »

Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #133 on: November 22, 2019, 02:45:27 PM »
To quote directly from Principia, Newton stated that:

Quote
Every particle of matter in the universe attracts every other particle with a force that is directly proportional to the product of the masses of the particles and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.

Where in this statement is there any indication about Newton stating about there being planetary/terrestrial gravity and stellar/celestial gravity?

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markjo

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #134 on: November 22, 2019, 05:41:19 PM »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #135 on: November 22, 2019, 06:03:35 PM »
This is the subquark:


No, that's Babbitt's Ultimate Physical Atom.
https://theosophy.wiki/en/Ultimate_Physical_Atom
Or read all about it in American Polarity Therapy Association Theory and Basic Principles of Polarity Therapy.

I looks as though sandokhan's subquark is whatever you like to make it. So I choose "A buxom ladies crocheted swim-suit".

Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #136 on: November 22, 2019, 06:04:48 PM »
Newton has already explained to you what is going on, but you won't listen.
I don't really care what someone long ago said.
But again, if you want to appeal to Newton, that means accepting that Earth is a round object, which rotates and orbits the sun.
If you don't want to accept that then stop appealing to Newton.

Here you need to defend your insane claims of a magical impossible aether magically slowing down light to virtually standstill speeds and magically effecting it by vastly different amount for different objects to make it seem like the known model of the solar system is correct. It is as if you have nature conspiring against you.
And yet you make absolutely no attempt to do so, and instead just spam more nonsense.

No where in that post of yours do you make any attempt at actually providing this aether exists or that this dome exists or that it can magically slow down light.
Instead you just appeal to a patent and yourself, pasting some text and pretending it proves it.
Grow up.

And of course, you completely ignored the other issue regarding the prism.

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #137 on: November 22, 2019, 10:00:06 PM »
No where in that post of yours do you make any attempt at actually providing this aether exists

I have already done so, but you cannot escape your cognitive dissonance.

The LOCAL-ETHER MODEL is a fact of science: you have at your disposal the necessary and precise references.

Instead you just appeal to a patent and yourself

No.

Here we can see that you hate SCIENCE, since I have presented the GERTSENSHTEIN-ZEL'DOVICH EFFECT (the conversion of a photon into a graviton).

Here are the references:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2194420#msg2194420

The transformation of an electromagnetic wave into a gravitational wave when the electromagnetic wave propagates through a constant transverse magnetic field.

Inverse GZ effect: the birth of an electromagnetic field under the action of metric perturbation (equivalent of GW action) in the strong magnetic field.

Light passing through a strong magnetic field will produce a gravitational wave via wave resonance.


That patent belongs to the US NAVY.

It is being used at the highest possible level in mainstream science.

“The High Energy Electromagnetic Field Generator” (HEEMFG).

It is a feature of the present invention to provide a method and apparatus for generating an impenetrable defensive shield to Sea and Land as well as Space-based military and civilian assets, protecting these assets from such threats as Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles, Radar Evading Cruise Missiles, Top Attack for Main Battle Tanks (land and sea based systems), as well as counteracting the effects of solar-induced Coronal Mass Ejections or defending critical military satellites in an ASAT role (space based system).

https://patents.google.com/patent/US10135366B2/

The scientist behind the HEEMFG is no rogue inventor but works at the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) on advanced technology concepts. On two occasions, Dr. James Sheehy, the Chief Technology Officer of the Naval Aviation Enterprise, a US Navy affiliated organization, has intervened on behalf of Dr. Pais’ patent applications deeming them “operable” .

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #138 on: November 22, 2019, 10:06:50 PM »
Look in YOUR reference, "The Physics of Stars, 2nd Edition" by A. C. Phillips and find:
Quote
1.4 THE SUN
TABLE 1.2 The main physical properties of the sun. The measured properties are the mass,
radius, oblateness, photon luminosity, and surface temperature.
Property   
Value
Mass    Mo = 1.99 x 1030 kg
Radius    Ro = 6.96 x 108 m
In Ricks Cosmology Tutorial: Chapter 11  Stellar Structure Part 1 we find "The central pressure from Equ.(22) is also given above (using G = 6.67 x 10-11 in MKSA units)"
So from your reference the mass of the Sun is 1.99 x 1030 kg and the radius is 6.96 x 108 m
And your next equation can be rearranged to gsun = G x m(r)/r2.

Hence from your own equation and your own references gsun = G x m(r)/r2 = (6.67 x 10-11 x 1.99 x 1030)/6.96 x 108)2 = 274.0 m/s2.
See "that value" again and orbital angular velocity has never been mentioned! - Funny that crops up again

Do you realize what you have done again?

Now, you have linked the VALUE OF G with the RADIUS OF THE SUN with g(solar surface).

Since you previously had connected g(solar surface) with the orbital angular velocity, now we have even more proofs that heliocentrism is completely wrong: YOU HAVE INVALIDATED THE VALUES OF G AND OF THE RADIUS OF THE SUN currently used.

You are a FE in disguise: nobody else could have done such a wonderful job to help FET.

So they can never be equated! I may have quite legitimately derived solar surface gravity from the Sidereal yea, the distance from earth to Sun and the Radius of Sun.

But it does not follow that simply that "If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) . . . . IS EQUAL TO ZERO"


But it does: you linked the orbital angular velocity with the solar surface gravity. In one equation.

It is your doing: a wonderful achievement which now proves that a(sun) ACTUALLY EQUALS ZERO.

Of course, the surface gravity of the Sun is roughly 274 m/s2!

And here is another way to check that 274 m/s2 value for the Sun's surface gravity.

Average distance from earth to Sun: 149,597,870,000 m.
Radius of Sun: 695,510,000 m
Sidereal year: 31,558,150 secs
Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s
Hence Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun = (1.99099 x 10-7)2 x (149,597,870,000) = 0.005930 m/s2.

But the (Sun's gravity at the Earth) = (Earth's centripetal Acceleration about Sun) =  0.005930 m/s2.
Now the gravity due to the Sun decreases as 1/(distance from the sun)2.
The Earth is 149,597,870,000 m from the Sun's centre and the Sun's surface is 695,510,000 m from the Sun's centre.

Therefore the Sun's gravity at its surface = 0.005930 x (149,597,870,000/695,510,000)2 = 274.35 m/s2 - QED.

So that agrees quite well with the surface g of the Sun as calculated from its mass, radius and the Universal Gravitational Constant - funny that!

Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:

Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s

If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Then, we are left with the centrifugal acceleration: ac = 0.0063 m/s2.

Algebraic approach to time-delay data analysis: orbiting case
K Rajesh Nayak and J-Y Vinet

https://www.cosmos.esa.int/documents/946106/1027345/TDI_FOR_.PDF/2bb32fba-1b8a-438d-9e95-bc40c32debbe

This is an IOP article, published by the prestigious journal Classic and Quantum Gravity:

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0264-9381/22/10/040/meta

In this work, we estimate the effects due to the Sagnac phase by taking the realistic model for LISA orbital motion.

This work is organized as follows: in section 2, we make an estimate of Sagnac phase
for individual laser beams of LISA by taking realistic orbital motion. Here we show that, in general, the residual laser noise because of Sagnac phase is much larger than earlier estimates.

For the LISA geometry, R⊙/L is of the order 30 and the orbital contribution to the Sagnac phase is larger by this factor.




Therefore, the value of 274 m/s2 RESTS ENTIRELY ON THIS STATEMENT:

Hence Earth's orbital Angular Velocity = 2 x π / (Sidereal year) = 1.99099E-07 rad/s

If the Earth is not orbiting the Sun, a(sun) DOES NOT equal 274.35m/s2: IN FACT IT IS EQUAL TO ZERO.

Since the GPS satellites ARE NOT registering/recording the missing ORBITAL SAGNAC, that means that the Earth is not orbiting the Sun.


Do you understand what you have done? YOU have just provided the BEST PROOF of my statement: the diameter of the Sun indeed has some 600 meters.

By your own analysis, a(sun) = ZERO.


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Stash

  • 5962
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #139 on: November 22, 2019, 10:16:29 PM »
words...

If the sun is 15 km high and passenger planes fly approximately 12 km high, being that they are just 3 km below the Sun, why don't they all burst into flames due to what must be an incredibly intense heat?

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #140 on: November 22, 2019, 10:25:48 PM »
Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464

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Stash

  • 5962
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #141 on: November 22, 2019, 10:57:31 PM »
Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464

There's nothing in your link that indicates Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public. In other words, no evidence for such a claim. So without evidence, commercial airliners fly just below your Sun. Why don't they burst into flames from the intense heat?

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rvlvr

  • 1962
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #142 on: November 22, 2019, 11:01:08 PM »
Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464
What?!

Ever been on a plane, have you?

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #143 on: November 22, 2019, 11:14:54 PM »
Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464

There's nothing in your link that indicates Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public. In other words, no evidence for such a claim. So without evidence, commercial airliners fly just below your Sun. Why don't they burst into flames from the intense heat?

I retrieved the links from archive.org.

Now, the videos can be viewed:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464

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Stash

  • 5962
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #144 on: November 22, 2019, 11:36:50 PM »
Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464

There's nothing in your link that indicates Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public. In other words, no evidence for such a claim. So without evidence, commercial airliners fly just below your Sun. Why don't they burst into flames from the intense heat?

I retrieved the links from archive.org.

Now, the videos can be viewed:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464

Still broken and still no evidence. So why don't the planes burst into flames so close to the Sun?

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #145 on: November 22, 2019, 11:37:29 PM »
Commercial and military planes fly at a lower altitude than that revealed to the public:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464
No, they do not and there is nothing in that post of yours that proves otherwise.

All I see is some stuff based on unproven hypotheses, conspiracy theories and claims like this:
Quote from: sandokhan
Re: Advanced Flat Earth Theory
« Reply #512 on:
April 04, 2018, 01:01:13 AM »


EARTH-SUN DISTANCE: ~10 KILOMETERS II

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939818#msg1939818 (part I)

The Earth-Sun distance was first estimated to be somewhere around 25 km (in stark contrast to the 3000 mi distance claimed by the UA proponents). Using a variety of proofs, estimates and calculations, that distance was reduced to 12-15 km. Now, more proofs showing that this distance can be even lower, some 10 km.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The height of Mt. Everest has to be lower than the official estimate since the basic triangulation method does not take into account the different refractive indexes for each layer of aether and ether.

First, your "EARTH-SUN DISTANCE: ~10 KILOMETERS II" is patently ridiculous because the angular size of the Sun is known to be the same (a little over 30 seconds of arc) wherever it is viewed from on Earth.
How would that be possible when the distance to YOUR sun could vary from 10 km to thousands of kilometres?

Your own reference does not mention "the different refractive indexes for each layer of aether and ether". All it says about ether is
Quote
The classical scientists such as Aristotle, Rene Descartes, Sir Isaac Newton and others believed that the light of the stars reaching us on earth crept spreading through a medium the so-called “Luminiferous Ether”. However various kinds of experiments had been made, among other was an experiment conducted by the American Scientists Michelson and Morrey in the 19th century, and all of those experiments failed to detect the presence of luminiferous ether, so that the ether is deemed non-existent. There is a possibility that luminiferous ether truly exists, but it cannot be proven.
You are again adding to the content of your reference. In other words, your own reference does not provide any support for your hypothesis "does not take into account the different refractive indexes for each layer of aether and ether".

Why don't you trust and accept your own references?

Quote from: sandokhan
But in fact satellites orbit at a much lower altitude, and are powered by Tesla's cosmic ray device which is the source of energy for the Biefeld-Brown effect.
That's not a "fact"! It's no more than an unproven, unsupported hypothesis!
Quote from: sandokhan
An altimeter actually includes an aneroid barometer which measures the atmospheric pressure (actually it measures the effect of the dextrorotatory ether waves). A radar altimeter uses radio signals. Both methods do not take into account the layers of aether which exist above 5 km in altitude which influence both the pressure reading and also the distance travelled by the radar waves.
And again, this is no more than another hypothesis, "Both methods  do not take into account the layers of aether which exist above 5 km in altitude which influence both the pressure reading and also the distance travelled by the radar waves."

Then you show these photos but why?
Quote from: sandokhan
Full moon over Mt. Everest
     
Whyever did you post those? There don't give any clue as to the distance of the moon from the Earth or support your ideas in the slightest!

But I will admit that the one on the right is a beautiful photograph an shows graphic evidence that the sun does indeed rise from below the horizon - but you accept tahe anyway.

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sandokhan

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Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #146 on: November 22, 2019, 11:52:55 PM »
Use https://archive.org/ with (www.youtube. com/watch?v=O6Lk7xlWCjo), remove the space between youtube. and com, it was saved on March 20, 2018.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180320190251/https://www. youtube. com/watch?v=O6Lk7xlWCjo

(remove the spaces between www. and youtube. and youtube. and com)

16:15 - 18:52 real cruising altitude of aircrafts is around 7,500 ft; on board measurement using an altimeter; comparison of altitudes using a hot air balloon

First, your "EARTH-SUN DISTANCE: ~10 KILOMETERS II" is patently ridiculous because the angular size of the Sun is known to be the same (a little over 30 seconds of arc) wherever it is viewed from on Earth.
How would that be possible when the distance to YOUR sun could vary from 10 km to thousands of kilometres?


THE LOCAL-ETHER MODEL is a fact of science: I have already provided the bibliographical references.

That's not a "fact"! It's no more than an unproven, unsupported hypothesis!

But it is a fact since GPS satellites do not record/register the ORBITAL SAGNAC EFFECT, nor the SOLAR GRAVITATIONAL POTENTIAL.

We also have the exact formula for the Biefeld-Brown effect: the power source for satellites.

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rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #147 on: November 22, 2019, 11:58:50 PM »
Look in YOUR reference, "The Physics of Stars, 2nd Edition" by A. C. Phillips and find:
Quote
1.4 THE SUN
TABLE 1.2 The main physical properties of the sun. The measured properties are the mass,
radius, oblateness, photon luminosity, and surface temperature.
Property   
Value
Mass    Mo = 1.99 x 1030 kg
Radius    Ro = 6.96 x 108 m
In Ricks Cosmology Tutorial: Chapter 11  Stellar Structure Part 1 we find "The central pressure from Equ.(22) is also given above (using G = 6.67 x 10-11 in MKSA units)"
So from your reference the mass of the Sun is 1.99 x 1030 kg and the radius is 6.96 x 108 m
And your next equation can be rearranged to gsun = G x m(r)/r2.

Hence from your own equation and your own references gsun = G x m(r)/r2 = (6.67 x 10-11 x 1.99 x 1030)/6.96 x 108)2 = 274.0 m/s2.
See "that value" again and orbital angular velocity has never been mentioned! - Funny that crops up again
Do you realize what you have done again?
I KNOW what I have done!

Quote from: sandokhan
Now, you have linked the VALUE OF G with the RADIUS OF THE SUN with g(solar surface).
And I know that I did NOT " linked the VALUE OF G with the RADIUS OF THE SUN with g(solar surface)"!

G is a universal constant and I took the value from YOU own reference!
"The VALUE OF G was taken from YOU reference, "Ricks Cosmology Tutorial: Chapter 11  Stellar Structure Part 1" and I do have a copy.

"The RADIUS OF THE SUN" was taken from YOUR own reference, "The Physics of Stars, 2nd Edition" by A. C. Phillips and I do have a copy!

Read this again!
Look in YOUR reference, "The Physics of Stars, 2nd Edition" by A. C. Phillips and find:
Quote
1.4 THE SUN
TABLE 1.2 The main physical properties of the sun. The measured properties are the mass,
radius, oblateness, photon luminosity, and surface temperature.
Property   
Value
Mass    Mo = 1.99 x 1030 kg
Radius    Ro = 6.96 x 108 m
In Ricks Cosmology Tutorial: Chapter 11  Stellar Structure Part 1 we find "The central pressure from Equ.(22) is also given above (using G = 6.67 x 10-11 in MKSA units)"
So from your reference the mass of the Sun is 1.99 x 1030 kg and the radius is 6.96 x 108 m
.
So all that I've done is to use values that YOU gave (via your references) to calculate that the surface gravity of the Sun, gsun = 274 m/s2.

This would be a lot less painful and frustrating if YOU went back to elementary school and learnt you read so that you might READ you own references and not "cherry-pick" what you think are the juicy morsels that support your hypotheses.

PS Take a hint! Only use references that support your hypotheses because, horror of horrors, you readers may even read your references!

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #148 on: November 23, 2019, 12:15:59 AM »
Use https://archive.org/ with (www.youtube. com/watch?v=O6Lk7xlWCjo), remove the space between youtube. and com, it was saved on March 20, 2018.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180320190251/https://www. youtube. com/watch?v=O6Lk7xlWCjo

(remove the spaces between www. and youtube. and youtube. and com)

16:15 - 18:52 real cruising altitude of aircrafts is around 7,500 ft; on board measurement using an altimeter; comparison of altitudes using a hot air balloon

First, your "EARTH-SUN DISTANCE: ~10 KILOMETERS II" is patently ridiculous because the angular size of the Sun is known to be the same (a little over 30 seconds of arc) wherever it is viewed from on Earth.
How would that be possible when the distance to YOUR sun could vary from 10 km to thousands of kilometres?

You didn't answer the question attached - Try again!
Your "EARTH-SUN DISTANCE: ~10 KILOMETERS II" is patently ridiculous because the angular size of the Sun is known to be the same (a little over 30 seconds of arc) wherever it is viewed from on Earth.
How would that be possible when the distance to YOUR sun could vary from 10 km to thousands of kilometres?

Quote from: sandokhan
THE LOCAL-ETHER MODEL is a fact of science: I have already provided the bibliographical references.
"THE LOCAL-ETHER MODEL is" NOT "a fact of science". That is not how science works few things are claimed as "facts". Maybe "THE LOCAL-ETHER MODEL" could be called a "theory".

But that's quite irrelevant anyway because C.C Su obviously believes that the Earth rotates on its, just look at even the title of this paper:
REINTERPRETATION OF FIZEAU’S EXPERIMENT WITH MOVING MEDIUM IN ACCORD WITH THE SAGNAC EFFECT DUE TO EARTH’S ROTATION by C.-C. Su.
Why don't you believe your own references?

Quote from: sandokhan
That's not a "fact"! It's no more than an unproven, unsupported hypothesis!

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Stash

  • 5962
Re: Radar ranging in the Solar System
« Reply #149 on: November 23, 2019, 12:31:31 AM »
Use https://archive.org/ with (www.youtube. com/watch?v=O6Lk7xlWCjo), remove the space between youtube. and com, it was saved on March 20, 2018.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180320190251/https://www. youtube. com/watch?v=O6Lk7xlWCjo

(remove the spaces between www. and youtube. and youtube. and com)

16:15 - 18:52 real cruising altitude of aircrafts is around 7,500 ft; on board measurement using an altimeter; comparison of altitudes using a hot air balloon

Your links still don't work and still no evidence. But here's a Balloon at 38k feet filming a Delta flight whizzing by it. That height would put them just below the Sun yet both are not on fire. Why is that?