Religion based: MAJOR PROOF THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT

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Religion based: MAJOR PROOF THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT
« on: November 27, 2019, 07:36:43 AM »
Hello, we all know that in many different religions, the earth is said to be flat. Well, lets look into them.

Somewhere in the Bible, it says that there is a dome over the earth. Now my sister was the first to introduce this fact to me. Anyways, in almost all religions, it says that there is a firmament, or dome, over the earth. How could this be true if the earth was not flat?

One more interesting fact: a poet from about 400 years ago, named Andalus Al Qahtani, says he believes that the earth is flat. In his two-hour long poem, he mentions almost all of the truths of the world. In only one line, he says: "And Earth in the reckoning of the rightly guided is flat … And their evidence is the truthful and clear Quran.” This very much amazed me. I would have never thought that he would mention that.

Anyways, like usual, I ask myself, "Are we living on a disk or a semi-circle?"

Re: Religion based: MAJOR PROOF THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2019, 08:37:40 AM »
One more interesting fact: a poet from about 400 years ago, named Andalus Al Qahtani, says he believes that the earth is flat.
Well, that's me convinced.   What now?
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Re: Religion based: MAJOR PROOF THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2019, 12:29:16 PM »
Hello, we all know that in many different religions, the earth is said to be flat. Well, lets look into them.

Somewhere in the Bible, it says that there is a dome over the earth. Now my sister was the first to introduce this fact to me. Anyways, in almost all religions, it says that there is a firmament, or dome, over the earth. How could this be true if the earth was not flat?
Well, considering that the religions contradict each other they can't all be correct.
Given that so many can be false it isn't surprising that they have so much false information in them.

In fact, it could easily be true if these religions were made by primitive men, ignorant of reality rather than an all knowing, caring, divine being.

So this isn't proof at all.

But if you did want to go down this path, the real question is which model do they match better, the RE model of today or the FE models of today?
Now you might be tempted to say because they have Earth being flat it more closely matches the FE model of today, but that is only one attribute.

The key issues with the current FE models come from trying to apply it to all of Earth where you have time zones where one location has the sun directly above it while other locations have night time, with no sign of the sun at all.

If instead you take the current RE model:
First note that visual observations only tell about relative motion and thus Earth orbiting the sun is equivalent to the sun orbiting Earth. So we start with a reference frame of Earth.
The planets were deemed wanderers so they can be ignored.
The stars are so far away and showed so little motion that they could be deemed to be on a sphere infinitely far away (or just very far relative to the size of "Earth") and centring it on the sun or Earth would be the same. This gives us the celestial sphere (or dome).
Now the sun and the moon are also on this celestial sphere, but instead of being stuck, they trace a path along it.
Also, again, as visual observations can't tell which is moving, the celestial sphere rotates instead of Earth.
Then all that is left is to note that they couldn't explore the entire Earth, instead they just had a small portion of it. If we ignore the rest of Earth and just focus on their known section, then there is little difference between it being flat or round, so we just flatten it a bit extend it out to the unknown, and then bring the celestial sphere in close.

That gives us the FE models of the ancients.

Now a lot of this can also apply for the modern FE models as well, but there are massive differences.
The current FE models do not have a celestial sphere. Instead they have a disk above Earth.

In the ancient FE models and the RE model, the sun sets because it goes below Earth; as it sets Earth gets in the way to obstruct the view. The same applies to other celestial objects. Earth gets in the way, obstructing the view. The apparent direction to it is the direction to it, and it remains roughly the same distance away which explains why they don't change size.

But for the modern FE models, that isn't the case at all. As I said above, they don't have a celestial sphere, they have a disk, typically 5000 km above Earth.
The sun no longer sets because Earth gets in the way, instead it sets by pure magic, with pure magic keeping it roughly the same apparent size even though the distance changes dramatically.

So other than the superficial flat vs round issue, the modern RE model is closer to the ancient FE models than the modern FE models are.

So the main reason most ancient civilisations (note not all) and thus most religions have a Flat Earth is that for a small region of Earth (like these civilisations were limited to) a small flat Earth is a reasonable approximation, and people prefer flat surfaces to stand on.

*

rabinoz

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Re: Religion based: MAJOR PROOF THAT THE EARTH IS FLAT
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2019, 05:48:47 PM »
Hello, we all know that in many different religions, the earth is said to be flat. Well, lets look into them.

Somewhere in the Bible, it says that there is a dome over the earth. Now my sister was the first to introduce this fact to me. Anyways, in almost all religions, it says that there is a firmament, or dome, over the earth. How could this be true if the earth was not flat?

One more interesting fact: a poet from about 400 years ago, named Andalus Al Qahtani, says he believes that the earth is flat. In his two-hour long poem, he mentions almost all of the truths of the world. In only one line, he says: "And Earth in the reckoning of the rightly guided is flat … And their evidence is the truthful and clear Quran.” This very much amazed me. I would have never thought that he would mention that.

Anyways, like usual, I ask myself, "Are we living on a disk or a semi-circle?"

Why not ask yourself, "Are we living on a disk, a semi-circle or a huge Globe?"

Early people did believe that the Earth was flat and the Scriptures simply reflect this belief. I do not believe that the Bible was even intended to teach Cosmology or "modern science".

Those in the early church seemed certain that the Earth was a Globe.

Look how "the early English monk, theologian and historian, the Venerable Bede (673–735)" described this:
Quote from: the Venerable Bede
We call the earth a globe, not as if the shape of a sphere were expressed in the diversity of plains and mountains, but because, if all things are included in the outline, the earth’s circumference will represent the figure of a perfect globe. … For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe; in its width, it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball, and it extends from its centre with perfect roundness on all sides.
From his book On the Reckoning of Time (De temporum ratione).

He could hardly have been clearer than "For truly it is an orb placed in the centre of the universe; in its width, it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball".

And the early Muslims living much closer to the time the Qu'ran was written seem to have known that the Earth is a Globe?

Here is some extracts from modern Islamic sites about some early Muslims astronomers/scientists :
Quote from: Islam Wiki
Geography and cartography in medieval Islam
Mathematical geography and geodesy
Around 830, Caliph al-Ma'mun commissioned a group of astronomers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to al-Raqqah, in modern Syria. They found the cities to be separated by one degree of latitude and the distance between them to be 66 2/3 miles and thus calculated the Earth's circumference to be 24,000 miles (39,000 km).[35] Another estimate given was 56 2/3 Arabic miles per degree, which corresponds to 111.8 km per degree and a circumference of 40,248 km, very close to the currently modern values of 111.3 km per degree and 40,068 km circumference, respectively

The title of this little extract from the Muslim Times shows how modern Muslims regard Al-Biruni:
Quote from: ZIA H SHAH
Al Biruni: One of the Greatest Pioneers of Science
The early Muslims duplicated the technique of Eratosthenes, to measure the circumference of the earth, 200 years before Al Biruni. But, that technique had a basic flaw. Al Biruni came up with a better idea, to measure the circumference of the earth, based on trigonometry.

The Empire of Reason, by  Islamic Golden Age


An illustration from Biruni’s Persian book. It shows different phases of the moon.
Here is more on Al-Biruni's Measuring the earth's radius 1000 years ago.

And 500 or so years later we find the same belief that the Earth is a Globe.

And, while I might not agree with much John Calvin taught, I would suggest that he might have understood what the Bible taught far better that you or I.

Look what he wrote:
Quote from: John Calvin
Commentary on Genesis - Volume 1, Author: Calvin, John (1509-1564)

Pp 25,26:[/i]
We indeed are not ignorant, that the circuit of the heavens is finite, and that the earth, like a little globe, is placed in the center.

Page 55:
In the meantime, however, the benediction of God so prevails that the earth everywhere lies open that it may have its inhabitants, and that an immense multitude of men may find, in some part of the globe, their home.

He seemed in no doubt that the Earth was a Globe.