Solar power source

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sandokhan

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Re: Solar power source
« Reply #240 on: November 17, 2019, 01:02:57 PM »
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You are inadvertently trolling the upper forums.

Your article describes what Dr. C.C Su calls the ROTATIONAL SAGNAC EFFECT.

Not the ORBITAL SAGNAC EFFECT, which is much greater.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170808104846/http://qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/f1b.pdf

This is an IOP article.

The author recognizes the earth's orbital Sagnac is missing whereas the earth's rotational Sagnac is not.

He uses GPS and a link between Japan and the US to prove this.

In GPS the actual magnitude of the Sagnac correction
due to earth’s rotation depends on the positions of
satellites and receiver and a typical value is 30 m, as the
propagation time is about 0.1s and the linear speed due
to earth’s rotation is about 464 m/s at the equator. The
GPS provides an accuracy of about 10 m or better in positioning.
Thus the precision of GPS will be degraded significantly,
if the Sagnac correction due to earth’s rotation
is not taken into account. On the other hand, the orbital
motion of the earth around the sun has a linear speed of
about 30 km/s which is about 100 times that of earth’s
rotation. Thus the present high-precision GPS would be
entirely impossible if the omitted correction due to orbital
motion is really necessary.



In an intercontinental microwave link between Japan and
the USA via a geostationary satellite as relay, the influence
of earth’s rotation is also demonstrated in a high-precision
time comparison between the atomic clocks at two remote
ground stations.
In this transpacific-link experiment, a synchronization
error of as large as about 0.3 µs was observed unexpectedly.


Meanwhile, as in GPS, no effects of earth’s orbital motion
are reported in these links, although they would be
easier to observe if they are in existence. Thereby, it is evident
that the wave propagation in GPS or the intercontinental
microwave link depends on the earth’s rotation, but
is entirely independent of earth’s orbital motion around
the sun or whatever.
As a consequence, the propagation
mechanism in GPS or intercontinental link can be viewed
as classical in conjunction with an ECI frame, rather than
the ECEF or any other frame, being selected as the unique
propagation frame. In other words, the wave in GPS or the
intercontinental microwave link can be viewed as propagating
via a classical medium stationary in a geocentric
inertial frame.

If you want to discuss the Sagnac effect go back to one of the countless threads where you have been repeatedly refuted.

You really do have a problem.

Dr. Massimo Tinto, Principal Scientist at CALTECH, Jet Propulsion Laboratory

https://web.archive.org/web/20161019095630/http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/2003papers/paper34.pdf

In the SSB frame, the differences between back-forth delay times are very much larger than has been previously recognized. The reason is in the aberration due to motion and changes of orientation in the SSB frame. With a velocity V=30 km/s, the light-transit times of light signals in opposing directions (Li, and L’i) will differ by as much as 2VL (a few thousands km).

SSB = solar system barycenter

Published in the Physical Review D

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ is the U.S. Naval Observatory website


https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0310017.pdf

Within this frame, which we can assume to be Solar System Barycentric (SSB), the differences between back-forth delay times that occur are in fact thousands of kilometers, very much larger than has been previously recognized by us or others. The problem is not rotation per se, but rather aberration due to motion and changes of orientation in the SSB frame.

The kinematics of the LISA  orbit brings in the effects of motion at several orders of magnitude larger than any previous papers on TDI have addressed. The instantaneous rotation axis of LISA swings about the Sun at 30 km/sec, and on any leg the transit times of light signals in opposing directions can differ by as much as 1000 km.

Aberration due to LISA’s orbit about the Sun dominates its instantaneous rotation.

The ORBITAL SAGNAC calculated at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory amounts to an admitted difference in path lengths of 1,000 kilometers.

The difference in path lengths for the rotational Sagnac is 14.4 kilometers:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0306125.pdf (Dr. Daniel Shaddock, Jet Propulsion Laboratory)

https://gwic.ligo.org/thesisprize/2011/yu_thesis.pdf (pg. 63)


Formula for the orbital SAGNAC EFFECT derived by Dr. Massimo Tinto, from CALTECH:
2VL

Formula for the rotational SAGNAC EFFECT derived by Dr. Daniel Shaddock, from CALTECH: 4Aω/c2


The factor of proportionality is R/L (R = radius of rotation, L = length of the side of the interferometer).

Algebraic approach to time-delay data analysis: orbiting case
K Rajesh Nayak and J-Y Vinet

https://www.cosmos.esa.int/documents/946106/1027345/TDI_FOR_.PDF/2bb32fba-1b8a-438d-9e95-bc40c32debbe

This is an IOP article, published by the prestigious journal Classic and Quantum Gravity:

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0264-9381/22/10/040/meta

In this work, we estimate the effects due to the Sagnac phase by taking the realistic model for LISA orbital motion.

This work is organized as follows: in section 2, we make an estimate of Sagnac phase
for individual laser beams of LISA by taking realistic orbital motion. Here we show that, in general, the residual laser noise because of Sagnac phase is much larger than earlier estimates.

For the LISA geometry, R⊙/L is of the order 30 and the orbital contribution to the Sagnac phase is larger by this factor.



« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 01:05:28 PM by sandokhan »

Re: Solar power source
« Reply #241 on: November 17, 2019, 01:59:32 PM »
Quote
On the other hand, the orbital
motion of the earth around the sun has a linear speed of
about 30 km/s which is about 100 times that of earth’s
rotation.

I thought you said the Earth is stationary and not orbiting the Sun?  I agree that the Earths actual orbital speed is around 30km/s as stated. You post links or quotes to 'evidence' your claims, yet some of the content that you have linked us to seems to counter your claims and this is a perfect example.  You have even highlighted it in red.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 01:21:41 AM by Nucleosynthesis »

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rabinoz

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Re: Solar power source
« Reply #242 on: November 17, 2019, 02:03:05 PM »
<< Irrelevant to the shape of the Earth, its movement or the topic, "Solar power source" so bug out! >>

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Macarios

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Re: Solar power source
« Reply #243 on: November 18, 2019, 06:53:21 AM »
Your article describes what Dr. C.C Su calls the ROTATIONAL SAGNAC EFFECT.

Not the ORBITAL SAGNAC EFFECT, which is much greater.

Are you talking of Earth's orbit around the Sun?
That thing is irrelevant for GPS.

The article describes measured values in the relevant area: within the Earth and near vicinity.
The residual up to 5 nanoseconds represents up to nearly 5 feet. Pretty far from kilometer, don't you think?
Your calculated "kilometers" may be valid in different reference frame.

Speed of GPS satellite around the Earth: 14 000 km/h.
Speed of the Earth around the Sun: 110 000 km/h.

Speaking of Sun: what fuels its power emission?
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.