New complete model of infinite flat earth

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rvlvr

  • 1447
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #180 on: November 05, 2019, 10:35:30 AM »
I know for a fact that Antarctica is off limits to all travelers and commercial flights.
https://www.google.com/search?q=antarctica+travel+guide
He knows.

Those scam sites will not change a thing!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 10:39:45 AM by rvlvr »

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NotSoSkeptical

  • 5142
  • I abuse wise
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #181 on: November 05, 2019, 11:15:36 AM »
Stop pretending to be chemists. You are babblers not chemists. You guys ever visited great lakes? They are huge bodies of fresh water. They have exact color as the salt water seas. An ocean of liquor or sugar cane juice and yes even yogurt can still be blue, stop arguing for the sake of argument. Everything in my title is true. My model is indeed new because it combines Vedic earth with infinite earth model. And yes earth is infinite in all directions. Every island and continent and there are endless amounts of them are located on universal ocean, infinite ocean.

What keeps all that ocean from freezing?

Frozen Yogurt! 
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #182 on: November 05, 2019, 01:11:29 PM »
cannot grasp anything outside of what is given by NASA.
How many times must this be repeated before it sinks in?
This has extremely little to do with NASA.
It has been known that Earth is round for thousands of years.
Long before NASA was even thought of, people KNEW Earth is round.

All the available evidence indicates Earth is round.
There is so much that is inconsistent with a flat Earth.

It isn't surprising that people accept Earth is round and reject the claims that it is flat, when all the available evidence indicates Earth is round and so much refutes Earth being flat.

How about you stop insulting us and start trying to justify your claims.

Now I know for a fact Rab that no one ever circumnavigated earth from North to South.
How?
Because it shows you are wrong so you need to dismiss it as fake?
Again, the evidence indicates it has been done.

On what basis do you reject it?

I know for a fact that Antarctica is off limits to all travelers and commercial flights.
Wrong again.
The evidence indicates it is off limits to military personnel except on a strictly non-military basis, and off limits to taking its resources or destroying it, while being open to others, especially for scientific research.

Plenty of people go there, even tourists.

Do you think I'm a stubborn person? No if they truly did circumnavigated pole to pole I would gladly accept globe earth
BS!
They did circumnavigate pole to pole yet you reject it.
It seems you would only accept a circumnavigation if you did it yourself.

So I guess ancient Indians and Hebrews met somewhere in the middle
Or the far more rational option of that being from even more ancient religions, which was updated to fit the less ancient versions as they migrated out of Africa.

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Sunset

  • 726
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #183 on: November 05, 2019, 03:19:47 PM »
New earth, we can all agree that people having fantasies is real. Some people hold fantastic fantasies, and you are one of those people. There are reasons people hold such fantasies so tightly at the expense of common sense.

The time will arrive for you to accept your infinite earth belief is a fantasy. Instead of telling everybody your fantasy, it will be time to tell everybody your secret. Time to tell your story and let the fantasy go.






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rabinoz

  • 23014
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #184 on: November 05, 2019, 03:50:59 PM »
Of course I told my friends and many people about my infinite earth model, they love it because it is a beautiful world I'm describing, however just like you, they have a hard time grasping the fact that its real and not a fantasy. You may think that I get mad when people don't believe me or argue with me, fact is I don't. I honestly don't expect anyone to agree with me or believe me.  I completely understand that people are locked into globe matrix and cannot grasp anything outside of what is given by NASA.  I do not get mad at dogs and cats for meowing and barking and not speaking words, in a same way I do not get mad at people who simply do not understand higher reality.

Now I know for a fact Rab that no one ever circumnavigated earth from North to South.
No, you do NOT " know for a fact that no one ever circumnavigated earth from North to South" because you claim is patently untrue!

If you disagree please post evidence to back up your claim.

Quote from: New Earth
I know for a fact that Antarctica is off limits to all travelers and commercial flights.
No, you do NOT " know for a fact that Antarctica is off limits to all travelers and commercial flights" because you claim is patently untrue!

If you disagree please post evidence to back up your claim.

Quote from: New Earth
Do you think I'm a stubborn person?
Stubborn is fine when based on evidence but being stubborn with no supporting evidence is simply being pig-headed.

Quote from: New Earth
No if they truly did circumnavigated pole to pole I would gladly accept globe earth, I would embrace our little globe, but unfortunately they didn't, they lied and said that they did but they never did.
This is the biggest reason I believe in flat earth. 
If you are going to claim "unfortunately they didn't, they lied and said that they did but they never did" without adequate evidence then YOU are guilty of making false accusations!

S, where is your evidence against the numerous polar circumnavigations? Here is a few polar-circumnavigation and if you dispute some of those take you evidence to the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale World Air Sports Federation, FAI and/or the Guinness Book of Records.

Quote from: New Earth
By the way if look at the Vedic earth it follow the biblical Hebrew cosmology as well. in Genesis chapter one it says that God separated waters above from waters below and dry land appeared. In Vedas it says the same thing. There is an ocean below the disk of the earth and the ocean above the firmament. So I guess ancient Indians and Hebrews met somewhere in the middle like Afghanistan and dreamed about it together? LOL
Except that the way you "look at the Vedic earth" disagrees with those in India who understand Sanskrit and I'd believe them long before believing you unsubstantaited opinion.
If you disagree, take it up with one who knows far more than you about Sanskrit: What does Veda say about the Earth being flat or round?
According to them the Vedas describe a spherical Earth. Here read this again!
Quote from: Vishnu Elayath, Rigvedi
What does Veda say about the Earth being flat or round?
Indians have, since time immemorial, known that the Earth we live on is a spherical planet. How? I shall elaborate with examples and quotations from ancient scriptures.

The word भू is used to denote Earth. It is famously called भूगोल (Bhoogola) meaning “The sphere that is Earth”.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Another prominent verse:-
Quote
मध्ये समस्ताण्डस्य भूगोलो व्योम्नि तिष्ठति

In the midst of the Universe, the spherical Earth stays.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
It is also explained in the Sreemad Bhagavatham and the Vishnu Puranam[2] in the Varaha Avatar chapters of Earth being a sphere. [3]
It can be seen clearly how the Vedas and the Puranas refer to Earth using words using Bhoogola, Khagola etc which all focus on गोल (Gola) meaning Sphere.

You previously asked:
If Bhugola means sphere then what does Bhumandala mean? The literal translation of Bhumandala is the "circle of the earth".
On "Bhugola":
Quote
SpokenSanskrti.org
Sanskrit  Transliteration   English
  भूगोल        bhUgola         planet earth [Geography]   
  भूगोल        bhUgola         earth   
  भूगोल        bhUgola         earth-ball   
  भूगोल        bhUgola         terrestrial globe
On "Bhumandala":
Quote
SpokenSanskrti.org
Sanskrit    Transliteration     English
भूमण्डल      bhUmaNDala      earth-circle   
भूमण्डल      bhUmaNDala      orbis terrarum   
भूमण्डल      bhUmaNDala      terrestrial globe   
भूमण्डल      bhUmaNDala      circumference or circuit of the earth

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rabinoz

  • 23014
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #185 on: November 05, 2019, 05:03:43 PM »
Your responses to my post is based on NASA brainwashing so I will not respond to that. Enough of your wanna be science.
My responses to your posts have nothing to do with NASA and I doubt I've mentioned NASA.

The Earth was known to a Globe many centuries before space travel was dreamt of.
Read some of the history of the shape of the earth as believed by the Greeks, Arabian people, the Persians, the Indians and early Europe.


Most of the Heliocentric Solar System we accept today were in place after Kepler and Newton.

So stop dreaming and face facts. Base your ideas on evidence not on guesswork.

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #186 on: November 05, 2019, 11:26:01 PM »
Let me explain something to you guys. I hate long posts and therefore I will really try not to make this post long. So to summarize how I feel about globe earth is basically like this; I refuse to believe that biblical sources are wrong. I feel that biblical cosmology as well as cosmologies of the ancient people all over the world cannot be all made up and be all wrong. Problem is you guys dismiss ancient cosmology thinking that those people were not too bright but I think otherwise. I think we today are being given wrong information about the reality we are in. Why did I choose the name new earth? New earth will be new reality when the truth about everything not just shape of the earth but everything will be revealed. When every world and every realm will be accessible to us. When we will no longer have to guess things but rather know things absolutely.

My visions may be wrong, infinite earth may be wrong, but your globe can be wrong too and the fact that you leave no room for alternate possibility  is pretty stupid in my opinion.  You guys need to be more open minded. You see I'm willing to accept other concepts, I'm willing to change my mind if truth will be presented to me, but you are not! Whether earth is infinite or not I will tell you this much; the physical world that you know off, the earth with its seven continents is just a tiny grain of sand, because there is no end to physical reality, there are many worlds on infinite earth. And like I said before there are many ways to visualize infinite earth. I visualize it as infinite ocean with massive continents, but it can also be viewed as something else, truth is earth is infinite.
"You think you are good, you think you are on the right path, but you are not."
John Seed

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #187 on: November 06, 2019, 12:31:00 AM »
I refuse to believe that biblical sources are wrong.
So you claim is based entirely upon religious nonsense, not any form of rational thought or evidence.

I feel that biblical cosmology as well as cosmologies of the ancient people all over the world cannot be all made up and be all wrong.
It isn't. Firstly note that not all ancient cultures had a flat Earth cosmology.
For a small region of Earth, it is actually a good approximation.

Take the current RE model.
Put Earth as the reference frame.
Take out the planets as wanderings which couldn't be explained.
Project the sun and other stars and moon onto a celestial sphere centred on Earth (the parallax and proper motion was negligible).
Have the sun and moon follow a path along the celestial sphere, corresponding to the orbit of the moon and the sun "orbiting" Earth instead of reality of Earth orbiting the sun.
Have the celestial sphere rotate instead of Earth.

Remove all of Earth except a small portion, potentially no more than a few hundred km wide.
Now flatten that part of Earth.

Now you have a simple model which is quite comparable to ancient models.
This models matches what the ancients see.
The sun sets because it goes below Earth.
They don't have issues with maps because they are only dealing with a small area and can't map all that accurately anyway.
They don't have issues with variations in time, e.g. the time of sunset, as they can't measure it accurately.

These ancient models, when noted to be an approximation for a small region, can actually match fairly well to the modern RE model.

What they don't match to (pretty much at all) is the modern FE model.
This is because the modern FE model has to deal with the entire Earth.
At this scale Earth cannot be represented as a flat surface without significant distortion.
With this large region we know that the sun is always above somewhere on Earth, so they can't have the sun set by going below Earth.
They have time zones so they need to invent something to explain it.

If you want to believe in a model that is close to the ancient FE models, that would be the round Earth model, not the modern FE model.

the fact that you leave no room for alternate possibility  is pretty stupid in my opinion.
So you think believing something purely on religious reasons and refusing to accept the possibility of being wrong is perfectly fine, while believing things based upon evidence is "stupid"?
I am open to alternate possibilities, but they need to explain reality.
If they are contradicted by reality, I will stick with reality, not the fantasy model.

Being open minded doesn't mean accepting whatever nonsense people spout. That would be being stupid and gullible.
If you can provide a model which can explain reality better than the current RE model I will accept it.
If all you can do is make baseless assertions without dealing with reality at all, I won't accept it.

I am open minded, not gullible.

I'm willing to change my mind if truth will be presented to me
You mean like the truth already presented in this thread?
It seems you are more willing to reject the truth and stick to your religious convictions.

This also directly contradicts your prior claims of refusing to accept the Bible is wrong.

All the available evidence shows Earth is round.
My personal favourite is the existence of 2 celestial poles, always 180 degrees apart, which you can circle.

For a Flat Earth, that requires 2 straight lines to intersect twice (once for each pole) after some finite distance.
This is physically impossible.
Instead, it requires Earth to be round.
Sure, it could be a double cone instead of a sphere, but it must be round.

Will you accept this truth?

the physical world that you know off, the earth with its seven continents is just a tiny grain of sand
Yes, Earth with its 4 continents is tiny in this massive universe with countless galaxies, each with countless stars, each with some planets.

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Macarios

  • 1800
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #188 on: November 06, 2019, 12:39:21 AM »
Let me explain something to you guys. I hate long posts and therefore I will really try not to make this post long. So to summarize how I feel about globe earth is basically like this; I refuse to believe that biblical sources are wrong. I feel that biblical cosmology as well as cosmologies of the ancient people all over the world cannot be all made up and be all wrong. Problem is you guys dismiss ancient cosmology thinking that those people were not too bright but I think otherwise. I think we today are being given wrong information about the reality we are in. Why did I choose the name new earth? New earth will be new reality when the truth about everything not just shape of the earth but everything will be revealed. When every world and every realm will be accessible to us. When we will no longer have to guess things but rather know things absolutely.

My visions may be wrong, infinite earth may be wrong, but your globe can be wrong too and the fact that you leave no room for alternate possibility  is pretty stupid in my opinion.  You guys need to be more open minded. You see I'm willing to accept other concepts, I'm willing to change my mind if truth will be presented to me, but you are not! Whether earth is infinite or not I will tell you this much; the physical world that you know off, the earth with its seven continents is just a tiny grain of sand, because there is no end to physical reality, there are many worlds on infinite earth. And like I said before there are many ways to visualize infinite earth. I visualize it as infinite ocean with massive continents, but it can also be viewed as something else, truth is earth is infinite.

Big churches like Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, ... know what the Bible says and why much better than you and me.
Go to any (or every) of their churches and ask the priests.

Infinie Flat Earth was not supported by measurements from the real world.
Globe Earth is, for roughly 2200 years.

Your visions are as good as anyone else's visions, for example the visions of J.R.R. Tolkien, Jules Verne, or Isaac Asimov. Try to put some catchy stories there and sell as a novel, instead of trying to replace reality with them.

Short enough? :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

P.S.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #189 on: November 06, 2019, 01:24:24 AM »
Go to any (or every) of their churches and ask the priests.
Priests have a strong incentive to present their holy book as accurate, regardless of if it is.
They are some of the last people I would turn to to find out what the holy book says.


Your visions are as good as anyone else's visions, for example the visions of J.R.R. Tolkien
Funny you should mention that.
Do you know the history of Middle Earth (or whatever their planet is)?

Originally their world was flat.
But humans tried to invade the undying lands, and that resulted in their god making the world round so the mortals couldn't reach the undying lands.

Sound familiar?

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rabinoz

  • 23014
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #190 on: November 06, 2019, 01:56:26 AM »
So to summarize how I feel about globe earth is basically like this; I refuse to believe that biblical sources are wrong.
If that is the case why don't you and other flat-Earthers accept the Scriptural Cosmology, at least as described in the book of Enoch?
Here's a translation for you: The Book of Enoch, Translated by R. H. Charles, D.Litt., D.D. With bn Introduction By W. O. E. Oesterley, D.D.
with this being of most interest: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries

To my knowledge, only Sandokhan places any weight on the cosmology of Enoch but he seems to interpret so many things in quite unbelievable ways.

Quote from: New Earth
I feel that biblical cosmology as well as cosmologies of the ancient people all over the world cannot be all made up and be all wrong.
Thenl, why don't you follow those cosmologies? That might, however, be a little difficult because they differ significantly.
But many of those Cosmologies differed greatly from the model claimed by modern flat-Earthers.
The Sumerians, Babylonians, Hebrews (as in Enoch) and the Greeks all had the Sun. Moon, planets and stars correctly rising from the horizon.
Modern flat-Earthers seem to all believe that the Sun and Moon etc all circle about 5000 km above the Earth and unable to appear to rise from and set behind the horixon.

Quote from: New Earth
Problem is you guys dismiss ancient cosmology thinking that those people were not too bright but I think otherwise. I think we today are being given wrong information about the reality we are in.
Not al all! I regard those ancient cosmologies as describing what those people did observe far better than any modern flat-Earth "theory" does.
But those people saw only a relatively region of the earth. As people travelled further they realised that those old Cosmologies could no longer explain what they observed.

But you seem to be the one dismissing "ancient cosmology" in that you deny the Vedas' claim that the Earth is spherical and for that matter the Cosmologies of the Greek Archaic Period (800 BC - 480 BC) and the Greek Classical Period (480 BC - 323 BC).

As I said before, these ancient Cosmologies differed significantly simply because those people travelled little and did not the capability of making sufficiently accurate measurements.

Quote from: New Earth
Why did I choose the name new earth? New earth will be new reality when the truth about everything not just shape of the earth but everything will be revealed. When every world and every realm will be accessible to us. When we will no longer have to guess things but rather know things absolutely.

My visions may be wrong, infinite earth may be wrong, but your globe can be wrong too and the fact that you leave no room for alternate possibility  is pretty stupid in my opinion.  You guys need to be more open minded. You see I'm willing to accept other concepts, I'm willing to change my mind if truth will be presented to me, but you are not! Whether earth is infinite or not I will tell you this much; the physical world that you know off, the earth with its seven continents is just a tiny grain of sand, because there is no end to physical reality, there are many worlds on infinite earth. And like I said before there are many ways to visualize infinite earth. I visualize it as infinite ocean with massive continents, but it can also be viewed as something else, truth is earth is infinite.
Well, I certainly believe that "your visions" for the shape of the earth are very wrong because the body of evidence accumulated has consistently shown that the Earth is spherical.

And all you can claim is that all those presenting evidence of the Globe must be lying but that lying must have started around 2500 years ago.

You say, "You guys need to be more open-minded" but you've given no reason to accept anything that you say. I do take a lot of notice of what historical people have said but I also go by the evidence that I see.

No, New Earth, your "visions" simply do not wash because they do not fit with what I see personally nor with evidence gathered over many centuries.

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Sunset

  • 726
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #191 on: November 06, 2019, 06:39:51 AM »
Let me explain something to you guys. I hate long posts and therefore I will really try not to make this post long. So to summarize how I feel about globe earth is basically like this; I refuse to believe that biblical sources are wrong. I feel that biblical cosmology as well as cosmologies of the ancient people all over the world cannot be all made up and be all wrong. Problem is you guys dismiss ancient cosmology thinking that those people were not too bright but I think otherwise. I think we today are being given wrong information about the reality we are in. Why did I choose the name new earth? New earth will be new reality when the truth about everything not just shape of the earth but everything will be revealed. When every world and every realm will be accessible to us. When we will no longer have to guess things but rather know things absolutely.

My visions may be wrong, infinite earth may be wrong, but your globe can be wrong too and the fact that you leave no room for alternate possibility  is pretty stupid in my opinion.  You guys need to be more open minded. You see I'm willing to accept other concepts, I'm willing to change my mind if truth will be presented to me, but you are not! Whether earth is infinite or not I will tell you this much; the physical world that you know off, the earth with its seven continents is just a tiny grain of sand, because there is no end to physical reality, there are many worlds on infinite earth. And like I said before there are many ways to visualize infinite earth. I visualize it as infinite ocean with massive continents, but it can also be viewed as something else, truth is earth is infinite.

With this post of yours, it's clear you have all the ingredients right, it's just the way you've laid them out which is not quite right.

Try and wrap your head around the idea that present earth is the new earth these ancient people dreamed of. An earth where we have mapped everything for starters and have the current technological advances.

The ancient people weren't exactly wrong, flat earth and biblical concepts were just a step in the evolution of human thinking on this planet. It helped our race get to where it is now. Be grateful for it.

As a race, in the way we think, we've had to learn to crawl before we could walk and then to run. Ancient people all over the world were at similar thinking levels, just as present day people all over the world are at similar thinking levels.

When you say infinite earth, new earth, I'm thinking, infinite universe. My infinite universe is essentially your infinite earth. What's the difference? Earth is like a grain of sand and there are massive continents on the planet Jupiter.

At other times, your visions seem to be of the way youd like things to be in your afterlife?

Future earth will view the earth differently again. They will look back and be calling our present world views ancient cosmology. The world views held by the majority of the human race is constantly being revised and is evolving.

Live in the present moment and embrace the world as it is. This is the earth you were born onto.


Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #192 on: November 06, 2019, 10:38:11 AM »
You see Sunset you actually got it all wrong. We used to walk but right now we are crawling. The ancient times was the golden age of earth. If the earth is a globe as you say, then why don't you watch ancient aliens on history channel, they provide overwhelming evidence for advanced ancient civilizations, far superior to ours. I think that modern technology is childish. Connecting bluetooth devices together is not progress. Notice that all the new phones and updates that Apple and other companies make are designed for teenagers and people who love social networks. We have no technology that made our lives better. I would still much rather drive to a music store and buy CD's then download music that has no character. I can go on and on but you get where I stand.

You guys believe in infinite universe but you have hard time grasping infinite terrestrial universe? You are brainwashed. You pick and choose and you discriminate against evidence. John Davis has an article on this forum where he talks about the mathematics of infinite plane.  He goes into details how it all works, why don't you guys believe him? Cause he is not from NASA?

By the way all ancient cosmologies were flat earth whoever says otherwise is full of shit. And as far as priests go, they are no the only authority on the bible, as a matter of fact some of them really misinterpret it, some of them do more harm then good. They are brainwashed by globe too. There are two major evidences in the bible that proves earth is flat. The firmament over the earth and another verse says Earth is a circle.  Liars says, "well there was no word for a globe in ancient Hebrew", but actually there is. I strongly suggest you watch some of the flat earth videos by youtube channel called Servant of Alone,  the videos are presented by Jewish scholar, an expert in Judaism, he will tell you earth is flat. Every Christian or a Jew who claims earth is a globe should be ashamed of themselves.

"You think you are good, you think you are on the right path, but you are not."
John Seed

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Yes

  • 286
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #193 on: November 06, 2019, 11:04:11 AM »
Kids these days with their streaming music and their globe earth! >:(
I know, it's awful being able to access all recorded music of all humanity.
You are asking me to defend flat earth by providing non religious, non conspiratorial and non alternative sources, and you know damn well that I can't do that

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rvlvr

  • 1447
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #194 on: November 06, 2019, 11:18:50 AM »
You see Sunset you actually got it all wrong. We used to walk but right now we are crawling. The ancient times was the golden age of earth. If the earth is a globe as you say, then why don't you watch ancient aliens on history channel, they provide overwhelming evidence for advanced ancient civilizations, far superior to ours. I think that modern technology is childish. Connecting bluetooth devices together is not progress. Notice that all the new phones and updates that Apple and other companies make are designed for teenagers and people who love social networks. We have no technology that made our lives better. I would still much rather drive to a music store and buy CD's then download music that has no character. I can go on and on but you get where I stand.

You guys believe in infinite universe but you have hard time grasping infinite terrestrial universe? You are brainwashed. You pick and choose and you discriminate against evidence. John Davis has an article on this forum where he talks about the mathematics of infinite plane.  He goes into details how it all works, why don't you guys believe him? Cause he is not from NASA?

By the way all ancient cosmologies were flat earth whoever says otherwise is full of shit. And as far as priests go, they are no the only authority on the bible, as a matter of fact some of them really misinterpret it, some of them do more harm then good. They are brainwashed by globe too. There are two major evidences in the bible that proves earth is flat. The firmament over the earth and another verse says Earth is a circle.  Liars says, "well there was no word for a globe in ancient Hebrew", but actually there is. I strongly suggest you watch some of the flat earth videos by youtube channel called Servant of Alone,  the videos are presented by Jewish scholar, an expert in Judaism, he will tell you earth is flat. Every Christian or a Jew who claims earth is a globe should be ashamed of themselves.
Could you please quit with the NASA. There are others, and at least I have never considered them to be the authority on anything. With you it seems everything is the US, NASA, and CIA.

And the crap they show on Ancient Aliens is just that. No one in their right mind thinks any of the things they hint at are true. The show is a joke. You might have seen the memes?

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #195 on: November 06, 2019, 12:16:02 PM »
We used to walk but right now we are crawling. The ancient times was the golden age of earth.
Are you serious?
The ancient times had so much less knowledge.
The life span was significantly shorter due to so many risks.
They lived their entire life in a small region of Earth; if they wanted to travel it would take a very long time.

If the earth is a globe as you say, then why don't you watch ancient aliens on history channel, they provide overwhelming evidence for advanced ancient civilizations, far superior to ours.
No they don't.
They provide evidence for ancient civilisations that were capable of using manual labour to achieve significant feats.
That doesn't make them more advanced.

We have no technology that made our lives better.
So you don't think computers have made lives better? You don't think mobile phones which allow you to call for help almost anywhere make our lives better? You don't think decent hygiene has made our live better? You don't think medicine to treat disease has made our lives better? You don't think being able to easily produce copies of literary works has made our lives better? You don't think easy global transfer of information has made our lives better? You don't think electricity has made our lives better?

I would still much rather drive to a music store and buy CD's
Which ancient civilisation has music stores and CDs? I am yet to hear of any.
Also, you are aware you can also download music from the past, at least a large amount of it.

You guys believe in infinite universe but you have hard time grasping infinite terrestrial universe?
No, we grasp it quite well. We just realise it is wrong.
Realising something is wrong is not the same as not being able to understand it.
All the evidence points to Earth being a finite roughly spherical object. That is quite incompatible with an infinite Earth.
However the universe itself is quite vast, and at least hypothetically if you were to reach the known edge, you could still go further.
Note that while I accept that the universe is infinite, that is in the sense that it is without bounds. I don't think it is all populated, and that eventually you can reach a point where there is no significant matter in one direction.
However it is also possible that this universe is the surface of a hypersphere, in which case it is finite.


You are brainwashed. You pick and choose and you discriminate against evidence.
No, we discriminate based upon evidence. That isn't brainwashed. That is called being rational. You should try it some time.
We accept what the evidence supports.

John Davis has an article on this forum where he talks about the mathematics of infinite plane.  He goes into details how it all works, why don't you guys believe him?
Do you mean the article which has the math of gravity for an infinite plane, which only shows that an infinite plane can be stable under gravity rather than collapse into a sphere, and that the gravitational acceleration (i.e. g) produced by such a plane is finite.

It provides no evidence that Earth is flat, nor any evidence that it is infinite.
All it does is show that if such a hypothetical place did exist, it would not collapse into a sphere.

It also doesn't even attempt to explain how objects would stay away from that plane, such as how the sun remains above it.

Again, this has nothing to do with NASA. It has to do with evidence.

By the way all ancient cosmologies were flat earth whoever says otherwise is full of shit.
No, anyone who claims such nonsense is full of BS.
Ancient Greek cosmology had a Round Earth.

But flat vs round is only one tiny part of the cosmology.

You need to consider the cosmology as a whole.
When you do so you find the ancient cosmologies had more in common with a RE than the FE of today.
Pretty much the only thing the FE models of the past have in common with the FE models of today is that they are both flat.

How many ancient FE models had the sun set by going below Earth, with no time zones?
All of the ones that I have found which describe these in any way.

How many ancient FE models had the sun a short distance above Earth, remaining that distance above Earth, with it being over different locations resulting in different time zones? NONE! (At least none that I have found).

And as far as priests go, they are no the only authority on the bible, as a matter of fact some of them really misinterpret it, some of them do more harm then good. They are brainwashed by globe too.
No, they aren't brainwashed by the globe.
They accept reality and "misinterpret" the Bible to make sure it matches reality.

Yes, the Bible indicates Earth is flat.
But it doesn't match the modern FE at all, nor your infinite Earth.

You start with Genesis with evening went and morning came, consistent with a single time zone rather than an Earth with multiple time zones.
As this is meant to be describing the formation of Earth, it makes no sense in the context of a RE or FE with time zones.

It describes the circle of Earth, which makes no sense for an infinite Earth.

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rabinoz

  • 23014
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #196 on: November 06, 2019, 02:52:47 PM »
You guys believe in infinite universe but you have hard time grasping infinite terrestrial universe?
Who says, we "believe in an infinite universe but you have a hard time grasping infinite terrestrial universe"?
But the Universe is far far more extensive than the Earth. The Earth has been mapped and found to be about 12,742‬ km in diameter.

Quote from: New Earth
You are brainwashed. You pick and choose and you discriminate against evidence.
No, that would be you picking and choosing. You accept the ancient cosmologies that you think fits your ideas but then you seem to reject:
  • the spherical-Earth Cosmology as presented in the Veda's.
  • the Gates Cosmology as presented by Enoch with its portals that the Sun and Moon etc rise from and set into and
  • the ancient Greek flat Earth Cosmology of  as described in COSMOS - The SAO Encyclopedia of Astronomy: Anaximander

    Anaximander Model of the Universe
So you seem to be the one that rejects these ancient Cosmologies.
On the other hand, I recognise that as people learnt more about the shape of the earth and of the movement of the celestial objects the Earth was recognised to be a Globe and finally, about 1800 years later as a rotating Globe that orbits the Sun.

Quote from: New Earth
John Davis has an article on this forum where he talks about the mathematics of infinite plane.  He goes into details how it all works, why don't you guys believe him? Cause he is not from NASA?
We do not believe him because his "infinite plane flat Earth" does not fit either what we see of with the known physics.

Quote from: New Earth
By the way all ancient cosmologies were flat earth.
No they were not and those that know far better than you claim that you are wrong!

Quote from: New Earth
And as far as priests go, they are no the only authority on the bible, as a matter of fact some of them really misinterpret it, some of them do more harm then good. They are brainwashed by globe too. There are two major evidences in the bible that proves earth is flat. The firmament over the earth and another verse says Earth is a circle.  Liars says, "well there was no word for a globe in ancient Hebrew", but actually there is. I strongly suggest you watch some of the flat earth videos by youtube channel called Servant of Alone,  the videos are presented by Jewish scholar, an expert in Judaism, he will tell you earth is flat. Every Christian or a Jew who claims earth is a globe should be ashamed of themselves.
Really? Whle I accept that the ancient Hebrew cosmology is of a flat stationary Earth, I and most others that have looked into the matter, do not believe that the Scriptures were ever intended to teach the details of Cosmology of Science in general. I wrote this earlier:
What might be called "uniting Theology and Technical Science" is one way of putting it but Galileo wrote that God wrote two books:
Quote from: Kelly James Clark
Science and Religion: Two Books
These worries prompted Galileo to write his Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina in 1615.
Galileo argued that God has written two books — the Book of Nature and the Book of Scripture — and that these two books do not, because they cannot, contradict.
That means that if one has a well-established scientific explanation of the physical world that seems to contradict a passage of Scripture, one has good reason to reconsider one’s interpretation of Scripture. The surface meaning of the Bible may not be its true meaning.
[

All the above does not mean that one "automatically swallows" every finding of "science" be it "the big bang" or natural selection as the origin of species.
One must test whether the findings are "well-established scientific explanations" of the physical world, many "findings of science" might, at present, be better simply regarded as hypotheses.

Some people try to force an interpretation on Scripture to make it fit modern cosmology when I don't believe that was ever intended.
You might find this series from Biologos worth reading: BioLogos, Using Scripture to Interpret Science, By Loren Haarsma on The Evolving Evangelical.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 08:31:22 PM by rabinoz »

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Sunset

  • 726
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #197 on: November 06, 2019, 07:20:37 PM »
New Earth, I presume your time machine has brought you safely to the year 2019?

Now you can kindly tell me how the current globe model and world maps, are inaccurate? I'm extremely open minded, so hit me with it. Maybe I've missed something? While you're at it, enlighten me on just one technological advance the ancients had, that we don't have. Just one will be fine.

If you really need to see it for yourself, new earth, have yourself an out of body experience and see the shape of earth for yourself.....it's easy to do.


Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #198 on: November 06, 2019, 10:03:29 PM »
I'm retiring this thread because this is going nowhere. I would appreciate that you do not respond any longer because every time I direct you toward a source you reject it without reading it and just spew same old Heleocentric rhetoric, I will not participate in this type of one sided ignorance.

I will just make one more comment on modern technology, someone asked do I think computers made our lives worse? The answer is yes absolutely. Computers made people very lazy and entitled but also very open to theft and privacy issues.  Social Media changed our culture and made people very passive aggressive and flaky. I can name million other things but I won't.

I remember reading popular science back in the 80's and early 90's how they talked about flying cars by the year 2000. Well we didn't get any flying cars but we did get bike lanes and scooters for the hipsters. LOL
"You think you are good, you think you are on the right path, but you are not."
John Seed

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rabinoz

  • 23014
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #199 on: November 06, 2019, 10:12:18 PM »
I'm retiring this thread because this is going nowhere. I would appreciate that you do not respond any longer because every time I direct you toward a source you reject it without reading it and just spew same old Heleocentric rhetoric, I will not participate in this type of one sided ignorance.
I agree with your "one sided ignorance" and that ignorance is all on your side.
You take no notice of anything written and post no evidence for your "complete model of infinite flat earth".
You refer you ancient Cosmologies yet you don't seem to agree or respect any of them.

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Crutchwater

  • 2100
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #200 on: November 06, 2019, 10:21:30 PM »
Before you run away, please take a shot at the question asked by Sunset. It's a good one!

What technological advance did "the Ancients" have that we do not have today?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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rabinoz

  • 23014
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #201 on: November 06, 2019, 10:23:02 PM »
I remember reading popular science back in the 80's and early 90's how they talked about flying cars by the year 2000. Well we didn't get any flying cars but we did get bike lanes and scooters for the hipsters. LOL
So what? That has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth not with the Geocentric Universe vs the Heliocentric Solar System.

Those issues were settled some 2300 years ago for the first question and the latter 250 to 350 years ago, though there are still a few Geocentric Globe adherents.

And your current flat Earth ideas only date from the mid 1800s. Most current flat Earth models bear little relation to those of the ancient Babylonian and Hebrews or the Greeks.

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Macarios

  • 1800
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #202 on: November 06, 2019, 10:39:22 PM »
Go to any (or every) of their churches and ask the priests.
Priests have a strong incentive to present their holy book as accurate, regardless of if it is.
They are some of the last people I would turn to to find out what the holy book says.


Your visions are as good as anyone else's visions, for example the visions of J.R.R. Tolkien
Funny you should mention that.
Do you know the history of Middle Earth (or whatever their planet is)?

Originally their world was flat.
But humans tried to invade the undying lands, and that resulted in their god making the world round so the mortals couldn't reach the undying lands.

Sound familiar?

About priests: have you asked them about the shape of the Earth?
Every serious church and every serious priest know that both systems, Flat and Geocentric are obsolete.

About visions: that was good example of presenting visions as a story, instead of trying to replace reality with them.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 10:42:18 PM by Macarios »
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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rvlvr

  • 1447
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #203 on: November 06, 2019, 11:04:40 PM »
One of the things I find odd and quite disconcerting is the need to live in constant paranoia when one has a worldview like New Earth's.

If one thinks, "knows", NASA is lying, there are no people ever circumnavigated Earth, or that Antarctica is off limits to everyone except a select few who are, I'd assume, in the know, that means you has to think everyone who states otherwise or has actually done such things must be a part of the conspiracy.

Behind the Curve features Nathan Thompson, who appears a quite unhinged and unpleasant character, attack a NASA employee in Starbucks. But I guess that is kinda what he needs to do with the worldview he has. And again, I have seen the same behaviour from Sandy Hook deniers. Not many of those people appear as someone I'd hazard a guess most would want anything to do with. It appears a common trait. It is not just their beliefs, it is how they present them. One's need to resort to such action is quite telling. Most of the people I know/knew who were like that never amounted to much, if anything.

Still, it'd be quite cool all this Illuminati stuff was real. Ghosts, magic and such, too. I'd like a real reason to fear the dark.

EDIT: Regarding Beyond the Curve. Nathan Thompson seems despicable, but I would not have any problem having a few beers with Mark Sargent or Bob Knodel. They seem civil.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 11:09:33 PM by rvlvr »

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #204 on: November 06, 2019, 11:59:07 PM »
I'm retiring this thread because this is going nowhere. I would appreciate that you do not respond any longer because every time I direct you toward a source you reject it without reading it
Just what sources have you provided which provide evidence that Earth is flat?
Not just religious claims of Earth being flat, but actually provide evidence for Earth being flat?

I will not participate in this type of one sided ignorance.
That is entirely upon you. All you need to do to stop participating in this type of one sided ignorance is to accept that you might be wrong and start reading what we are saying.

So far all you have done is repeatedly asserted that Earth is flat, and rejected everything which challenged that.

I will just make one more comment on modern technology, someone asked do I think computers made our lives worse? The answer is yes absolutely. Computers made people very lazy and entitled but also very open to theft and privacy issues.  Social Media changed our culture and made people very passive aggressive and flaky. I can name million other things but I won't.
Technically you were asked if they made your life better.
And now you just focus on a tiny part, in a very one sided manner and make logical leaps.
Computers don't make people lazy and entitled. Bad parenting does.

Yes, computers can help with theft and privacy, but they also help prevent it. They also help with other things, such as communication and transfer of information across long distances, and to be able to understand the world around us better which enables other technology.

Why do you address the rest of the comments regarding technology and how it was in ancient times, where a simple famine could wipe out so many.

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #205 on: November 07, 2019, 10:42:22 AM »
Our discussion here is not gonna go anywhere. You are asking me to defend flat earth by providing non religious, non conspiratorial and non alternative sources, and you know damn well that I can't do that because official sources deny flat earth. So you asking me to submit not evidence, but rather certain kind of evidence, which is why I said you discriminate against it.

The only evidence in favor of flat earth I can provide would be religious and non conventional which you guys absolutely refuse to accept. I'm really surprised that admins let this go on.

You did not prove round earth to me here. All you been saying is "it has been proven, it has been proven." You gave me no evidence who proved it and why I should believe it. You accept round earth because your teachers and your TV says its round. For me that is not evidence. Please just stop, we are not going to prove anything to each other.
"You think you are good, you think you are on the right path, but you are not."
John Seed

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rvlvr

  • 1447
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #206 on: November 07, 2019, 10:53:29 AM »
You meditate on that. And watch the sun set, and rise.

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Crutchwater

  • 2100
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #207 on: November 07, 2019, 11:12:30 AM »
RE presents a literal MOUNTAIN of evidence.

New Earth presents absolutely ZERO evidence, and claims ALL evidence for RE is fake.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #208 on: November 07, 2019, 12:36:08 PM »
You are asking me to defend flat earth by providing non religious, non conspiratorial and non alternative sources
No. I am asking you to defend it by providing evidence for it and dealing with the massive issues it creates.
For example, how do you have 2 celestial poles always 180 degrees apart?
How do you explain time zones?
How do you explain sun rise and sunset times?
How do you explain the fact that as you get further from the equator, the distance between 2 lines of longitude decrease?

There are a multitude of issues that RE explains so well which FE has no explanation for and instead just pushes the problem around or runs from it.

So you asking me to submit not evidence, but rather certain kind of evidence, which is why I said you discriminate against it.
No, I am asking you to submit actual evidence.
A baseless claim/assertion such as that found in religious texts is not evidence. It is a claim.
A blatant lie which is easily disproven, such as claiming the horizon always rises to eye level, is not evidence.


The only evidence in favor of flat earth I can provide would be religious
Again, appealing to religion is not evidence.


You did not prove round earth to me here. ... You gave me no evidence who proved it and why I should believe it.
That would be you shifting the burden of proof.
You have came here making claims of what Earth is.
The burden is on you to substantiate that.

If all you have is a claim that there isn't evidence for a competing model, then you really have nothing.
Even if there was literally 0 evidence for a RE, that doesn't make your model true.
If you want evidence of a RE, don't come in claiming some model, don't come in saying we all have no evidence and are just indocrinated, brainwashed fools. Instead, try asking for evidence and actually engaging with it.

But don't worry, evidence has been provided in this thread, you just chose to ignore it.

You accept round earth because your teachers and your TV says its round.
And that is yet another baseless insult from you.
Again, we accept Earth is round because that is what the evidence shows, because that is a model which can actually explain reality.

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Sunset

  • 726
Re: New complete model of infinite flat earth
« Reply #209 on: November 07, 2019, 03:05:45 PM »
Our discussion here is not gonna go anywhere. You are asking me to defend flat earth by providing non religious, non conspiratorial and non alternative sources, and you know damn well that I can't do that because official sources deny flat earth. So you asking me to submit not evidence, but rather certain kind of evidence, which is why I said you discriminate against it.

The only evidence in favor of flat earth I can provide would be religious and non conventional which you guys absolutely refuse to accept. I'm really surprised that admins let this go on.

You did not prove round earth to me here. All you been saying is "it has been proven, it has been proven." You gave me no evidence who proved it and why I should believe it. You accept round earth because your teachers and your TV says its round. For me that is not evidence. Please just stop, we are not going to prove anything to each other.

Religion and science never see eye to eye. Religion is concerned with the spiritual side of man and science the physical side. Arguing a religious viewpoint (allegorical) trumps a scientific viewpoint, is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. You talk about earth's spiritual nature, and wonder why it doesn't fit with earth's physical nature.

You chose to post and share your utopian views of the world, new earth, so naturally a prick like myself is going to come along and challenge your thinking.

Authors for years have been squawking about how technologically superior the ancients were, but never elaborate on why they were superior. Likewise, flat earthers squawk about the globe model being inaccurate, but never ever give an example of an inaccurate globe model land mass shape.

You said it yourself, new earth. The only evidence you can provide for a flat infinite earth, is religious and non conventional. Your evidence is purely spiritual.

I tend to agree that as long as you stubbornly refuse to separate spiritual from physical, our discussion is not going to go anywhere.

The reason almost all people accept earth is physically round, is because there is no physical reason to suggest Earth is any shape otherwise. That is evidence.



« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 03:07:57 PM by Sunset »