There is no way it's all random luck... impossible

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Bom Tishop

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There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« on: October 13, 2019, 03:15:36 PM »
After seeing my little one born last weekend, it really got me thinking again. Seeing the automation of the human body, everything having to work together before, then and after. There are too many 100s million trillion variables to get just to this point..

No way it's random luck ..zero
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 03:23:17 PM by Bom Tishop »
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Crouton

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2019, 05:23:45 PM »
Congratulations!

Did everything go well?
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Bom Tishop

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2019, 05:42:25 PM »
Congratulations!

Did everything go well?

Yes it did, thank you.

There was some complications starting around the 5th month. Everything turned out well though with a couple day early birth.

Her body went into overdrive out of nowhere. From literally nothing to 100. Only a 5 hour labor, and that is her first child. Pretty crazy but very harsh for her unfortunately.
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Rayzor

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2019, 09:11:38 PM »
After seeing my little one born last weekend, it really got me thinking again. Seeing the automation of the human body, everything having to work together before, then and after. There are too many 100s million trillion variables to get just to this point..

No way it's random luck ..zero

Congratulations on your new arrival,  we can/will argue about evolution some other day.   

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2019, 11:40:14 PM »

Congratulations on your new arrival,  we can/will argue about evolution some other day.

Ha ha, okay, thanks rayzor!
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Lorddave

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2019, 12:49:34 AM »
Congrats!

Nothing compares to holding your first born for the first time

Also, its not luck. Its millions of years of Trial and Error.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2019, 01:01:21 AM »
Congrats!

Nothing compares to holding your first born for the first time

Also, its not luck. Its millions of years of Trial and Error.

Not my first born, but first girl (and last kiddo).

The math doesn't work. The time to accomplish such a task would be infinite, as in not possible. Too many complicated complete systems, too many 100s of millions of trillions of variables. Then add that to the fact there is no intelligence or driving force to "change". Just doesn't work. Greek mythology is has more possibility behind it
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Lorddave

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2019, 02:54:32 AM »
Congrats!

Nothing compares to holding your first born for the first time

Also, its not luck. Its millions of years of Trial and Error.

Not my first born, but first girl (and last kiddo).

The math doesn't work. The time to accomplish such a task would be infinite, as in not possible. Too many complicated complete systems, too many 100s of millions of trillions of variables. Then add that to the fact there is no intelligence or driving force to "change". Just doesn't work. Greek mythology is has more possibility behind it

Nothing takes infinite time.
As for complex, it is but its built off basic systems like cell division, which is all chemistry.

As for the driving force to change, well, lots of things: climate, environment, radiation, random mutations, etc ...

Its slow but think of it this way: if a single cell organism duplicates once every 2 weeks, how many duplications of that same species will you have had after 10,000 years?

Its alot.
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Bullwinkle

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2019, 03:52:49 AM »

Also, its not luck. Its millions of years of Trial and Error.

Really don't think Bom Tishop is that old.   ;D

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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2019, 04:14:09 AM »
After seeing my little one born last weekend, it really got me thinking again. Seeing the automation of the human body, everything having to work together before, then and after. There are too many 100s million trillion variables to get just to this point..

Congratulations. Give her roots to grow and wings to fly.

Quote
No way it's random luck ..zero

And your alternative would be? A guiding hand, but one that introduces random birth defects and miscarriages? Nice.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 04:34:34 AM by Jura-Glenlivet II »
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Rayzor

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2019, 04:14:36 AM »

Also, its not luck. Its millions of years of Trial and Error.

Really don't think Bom Tishop is that old.   ;D

LOL,  ask him again in 14 years time.  Teenage daughters will make you feel you are a million years old.
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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boydster

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2019, 10:03:47 AM »
You made a baby! Congrats Bom!

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Username

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2019, 10:11:36 AM »
Congratulations! In before wise calls your child fake. ;)
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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The Real Celine Dion

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2019, 11:08:46 AM »
Let's all hope she doesn't take after Bom in the looks department.
You just got Weskered, bitches!

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Pezevenk

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2019, 11:27:22 AM »
The math doesn't work. The time to accomplish such a task would be infinite, as in not possible. Too many complicated complete systems, too many 100s of millions of trillions of variables. Then add that to the fact there is no intelligence or driving force to "change". Just doesn't work. Greek mythology is has more possibility behind it
Huh, this actually sounds exactly like what I'd expect the likelihood of you having sex would be judging from your posts, but here we are now, so maybe understanding the world requires a bit more than simplistic intuition, who knew...
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Bom Tishop

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2019, 01:42:18 PM »
Let's all hope she doesn't take after Bom in the looks department.

Yeah, no kidding....that is what I was saying the entire time. It looks like she has most of her mom's features thanks God.


LOL,  ask him again in 14 years time.  Teenage daughters will make you feel you are a million years old.


Yeah, this is what I have heard. I am afraid of either losing my hair or ending up in jail....or both
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Wolvaccine

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2019, 10:08:11 PM »
Congrats man! My first born was fine by a caesarian. After 50 hours of labour he was still like 'yeah?? Nah...'

And when you look into their eyes you can see perfection. Something more than evolution or science can explain.


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Lorddave

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2019, 10:56:06 PM »
Congrats man! My first born was fine by a caesarian. After 50 hours of labour he was still like 'yeah?? Nah...'

And when you look into their eyes you can see perfection. Something more than evolution or science can explain.

I see the eyes of my wife, staring back.  The bonds of love and offspring linking parental centers in my brain to attachment to ensure I raise the child and ensure the survival of our species.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Bullwinkle

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2019, 11:41:59 PM »
Do I have this right?

Some fathers don't just get home at 5:30pm, guzzle beer and then go to bed?
You actually talk to and interact with your offspring?

Amazing.


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Wolvaccine

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2019, 02:08:22 AM »
Congrats man! My first born was fine by a caesarian. After 50 hours of labour he was still like 'yeah?? Nah...'

And when you look into their eyes you can see perfection. Something more than evolution or science can explain.

I see the eyes of my wife, staring back.  The bonds of love and offspring linking parental centers in my brain to attachment to ensure I raise the child and ensure the survival of our species.

Sure, but how did we get to this point? How did the single cell organism billions of years ago give a damn and want to live forever? (short of immortality, reproduction is the next best thing).

Also, what you describe is only applicable to humans. Turtles lay eggs in the sand and never look back. Do they even care? Black Widow spiders eat the male after sex which is not helpful for survival of the species (as the male can seed more females if not eaten). Clearly the male doesn't want to die and they have actually evolved a few tricks to basically run away after doing the 'deed'. How does a male black widow spider born today 'know' that a female will eat him after sex? Does she tell him of her nefarious plan? Do the males get together and tell each other what happened to their friend after he had sex with a female and to 'watch out?'

Science can explain how we do what we do based on chemicals and hormones such as dopamine, phenylethylamine, oxytocin and how they affect our mental state. What it doesn't do is explain how we got to this point or why. Evolution is one thing, but how a few amino acids in some pool billions of years ago joined together and evolved into billions of unique life forms and more than that, our mental and emotional intelligence is something yet explained.

Do I have this right?

Some fathers don't just get home at 5:30pm, guzzle beer and then go to bed?
You actually talk to and interact with your offspring?

Amazing.



Damn right  8)

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Lorddave

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2019, 02:36:15 AM »
Congrats man! My first born was fine by a caesarian. After 50 hours of labour he was still like 'yeah?? Nah...'

And when you look into their eyes you can see perfection. Something more than evolution or science can explain.

I see the eyes of my wife, staring back.  The bonds of love and offspring linking parental centers in my brain to attachment to ensure I raise the child and ensure the survival of our species.

Sure, but how did we get to this point? How did the single cell organism billions of years ago give a damn and want to live forever? (short of immortality, reproduction is the next best thing).

Also, what you describe is only applicable to humans. Turtles lay eggs in the sand and never look back. Do they even care? Black Widow spiders eat the male after sex which is not helpful for survival of the species (as the male can seed more females if not eaten). Clearly the male doesn't want to die and they have actually evolved a few tricks to basically run away after doing the 'deed'. How does a male black widow spider born today 'know' that a female will eat him after sex? Does she tell him of her nefarious plan? Do the males get together and tell each other what happened to their friend after he had sex with a female and to 'watch out?'

Science can explain how we do what we do based on chemicals and hormones such as dopamine, phenylethylamine, oxytocin and how they affect our mental state. What it doesn't do is explain how we got to this point or why. Evolution is one thing, but how a few amino acids in some pool billions of years ago joined together and evolved into billions of unique life forms and more than that, our mental and emotional intelligence is something yet explained.

One of the foundations for the definitions of life is to reproduce.  The current theory is ambiogenesis.  Just a random freak mix of molecules that ended up copying over and over.  And it built from there.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Wolvaccine

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2019, 02:40:38 AM »
Congrats man! My first born was fine by a caesarian. After 50 hours of labour he was still like 'yeah?? Nah...'

And when you look into their eyes you can see perfection. Something more than evolution or science can explain.

I see the eyes of my wife, staring back.  The bonds of love and offspring linking parental centers in my brain to attachment to ensure I raise the child and ensure the survival of our species.

Sure, but how did we get to this point? How did the single cell organism billions of years ago give a damn and want to live forever? (short of immortality, reproduction is the next best thing).

Also, what you describe is only applicable to humans. Turtles lay eggs in the sand and never look back. Do they even care? Black Widow spiders eat the male after sex which is not helpful for survival of the species (as the male can seed more females if not eaten). Clearly the male doesn't want to die and they have actually evolved a few tricks to basically run away after doing the 'deed'. How does a male black widow spider born today 'know' that a female will eat him after sex? Does she tell him of her nefarious plan? Do the males get together and tell each other what happened to their friend after he had sex with a female and to 'watch out?'

Science can explain how we do what we do based on chemicals and hormones such as dopamine, phenylethylamine, oxytocin and how they affect our mental state. What it doesn't do is explain how we got to this point or why. Evolution is one thing, but how a few amino acids in some pool billions of years ago joined together and evolved into billions of unique life forms and more than that, our mental and emotional intelligence is something yet explained.

One of the foundations for the definitions of life is to reproduce.  The current theory is ambiogenesis.  Just a random freak mix of molecules that ended up copying over and over.  And it built from there.

Your answer is still a non answer. It doesn't explain much of anything. To be fair, no one has come up with an actual answer. For now, let parents enjoy the bliss and wonder of looking into their newborns eyes.

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What animal relates to your wife?

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2019, 02:53:04 AM »
One of the foundations for the definitions of life is to reproduce.  The current theory is ambiogenesis.  Just a random freak mix of molecules that ended up copying over and over.  And it built from there.

Your answer is still a non answer. It doesn't explain much of anything. To be fair, no one has come up with an actual answer. For now, let parents enjoy the bliss and wonder of looking into their newborns eyes.

If scientists can recreate abiogenesis in a setting similar to what earth was 4 billion years ago, it does give as one possible answer. But we will never def know because we cant go back and observe this event.
I find the topic fascinating, because it is one of the many things science may never definitely be able to answer.
But after abiogenesis, the answer becomes a lot simpler, replication, mutation and selection. AKA, evolution.

Congrats Tom. very subtle way of saying you had sex once. :)
Good luck going forward
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Bom Tishop

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2019, 03:50:00 PM »
Congrats man! My first born was fine by a caesarian. After 50 hours of labour he was still like 'yeah?? Nah...'

And when you look into their eyes you can see perfection. Something more than evolution or science can explain.

Geez... My boy was close to 32, 50 hours though, wow. I think I would grab a scalpel and cut that thing out myself.

And your alternative would be? A guiding hand, but one that introduces random birth defects and miscarriages? Nice.

Yes. Kind of like someone creating a base program, characters and AI..then letting it go.
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Jura-Glenlivet II

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2019, 04:53:13 AM »


And your alternative would be? A guiding hand, but one that introduces random birth defects and miscarriages? Nice.

Yes. Kind of like someone creating a base program, characters and AI..then letting it go.


Or you could dispense with that, as you will always have the problem where did the helping hand come from?

Instead have a mind-numbingly large number of planets around truly astounding amounts of suns of many different types across an unimaginable amount of space under radically differing conditions and give it a few billion years, you never know.

The good thing about all that is, you don’t end up with the god bollocks.

Unless of course, in its early stages a nascent intelligence sees patterns, and because it has made patterns itself, and because it doesn’t have answers yet, as not enough giants have risen to see above the woodsmoke from their shoulders, so it attributes those patterns to a designer, as it has understandably little comprehension of the size, age and diversity out there, how could it? Four score year and ten and 5 foot 9, hardly a yard stick for the age and size of a star, let alone a system etcetera. It tries to, it really does, but often spectacularly fails due to its ability to overegg its own intelligence, augmented as it is by you-tube and its ability to text, forgetting in the process that it’s part of the same species that came up with celebrity love Island and Scrappy Doo, and of course that old god virus is still there muddying the mind, because death is still a thing to be feared and no way were the priests ever going to give that little gig up, so they’d introduced hell, apostasy and excommunication because god can love you only so far before he burns you forever, caring as he is, so science the long awaited shoulders that take us above the shortened view is tainted by superstition, the inevitable false starts and broken promises, therefore contradictions abound, and we end up here.

What was the question again?     
Life is meaningless and everything dies.

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Bom Tishop

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2019, 05:12:34 AM »


And your alternative would be? A guiding hand, but one that introduces random birth defects and miscarriages? Nice.

Yes. Kind of like someone creating a base program, characters and AI..then letting it go.


Or you could dispense with that, as you will always have the problem where did the helping hand come from?

Instead have a mind-numbingly large number of planets around truly astounding amounts of suns of many different types across an unimaginable amount of space under radically differing conditions and give it a few billion years, you never know.

The good thing about all that is, you don’t end up with the god bollocks.

Unless of course, in its early stages a nascent intelligence sees patterns, and because it has made patterns itself, and because it doesn’t have answers yet, as not enough giants have risen to see above the woodsmoke from their shoulders, so it attributes those patterns to a designer, as it has understandably little comprehension of the size, age and diversity out there, how could it? Four score year and ten and 5 foot 9, hardly a yard stick for the age and size of a star, let alone a system etcetera. It tries to, it really does, but often spectacularly fails due to its ability to overegg its own intelligence, augmented as it is by you-tube and its ability to text, forgetting in the process that it’s part of the same species that came up with celebrity love Island and Scrappy Doo, and of course that old god virus is still there muddying the mind, because death is still a thing to be feared and no way were the priests ever going to give that little gig up, so they’d introduced hell, apostasy and excommunication because god can love you only so far before he burns you forever, caring as he is, so science the long awaited shoulders that take us above the shortened view is tainted by superstition, the inevitable false starts and broken promises, therefore contradictions abound, and we end up here.

What was the question again?     

Did you have a stroke jura lol??

I have left origins alone as there is 0 answers there and we will NEVER have that answer until we die. Where did God come from? String theory says God is outside cause and effect so he could just exist. Origins without God, something still had to exist for whatever reason with time being created with the big bang.

Either way, it takes faith and knowledge so far out of our pay grade.

Comparing the two, God makes more sense. It is more simple and explains the obvious intelligent design we see when our eyes are open or closed.  Then when you add  nonsensical evolution from inanimate material to get where we are now....just seals the case for me.

Nothing else has a possibility of making sense.
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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2019, 07:24:37 AM »
String theory says God is outside cause and effect so he could just exist
Oh, my.  I'd love to see the theoretical physics book that comes from.
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sokarul

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2019, 08:02:27 AM »
So god gave you a health baby while he gives other special need babies or just kills their baby?

Do I have it right?

God gives all the kids at children’s hospital cancer?

Do I have it right?
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Username

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2019, 10:45:46 AM »
String theory says God is outside cause and effect so he could just exist
Oh, my.  I'd love to see the theoretical physics book that comes from.
Probably the same one that claims the sum of all natural numbers is -1/12
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Pezevenk

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Re: There is no way it's all random luck... impossible
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2019, 01:11:24 PM »
String theory says God is outside cause and effect so he could just exist.

Huh? What?


Quote
Comparing the two, God makes more sense. It is more simple and explains the obvious intelligent design we see when our eyes are open or closed.  Then when you add  nonsensical evolution from inanimate material to get where we are now....just seals the case for me.
Know what's even "simpler"? The God of the Quran. None of that trinity nonsense. Just a straightforward God.

But now that I think about it, it's a very good idea. It's the simplest way to solve any problem! In fact I can solve pretty much any major issue in science that way. Example: how do we explain why gravitation is the way it is? Because Allah wants it to be like that.

See? Easy.
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Read a bit psicology and stick your imo to where it comes from
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