“Sigma Octantis” and the Infinite Plane?

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 06:38:36 AM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 31, 2019, 06:09:48 PM

What Southern Star trails (videos) can I trust are real?

Easy.

Southern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating clockwise.

Northern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating counter-clockwise.

Explain that with your flat earth.


I couldn't careless what they superimpose on the video.  If the star trail rotates counter-clockwise it's a video of northern stars.  If the star trail rotates clockwise it's a video of southern stars.

You dont need to trust any videos.
Go outside.
Go on vacation to S argentina.

You're right you don't need to trust any videos.   But you can't see a star trail without a video.  You can watch the stars move during the night but you aren't going to see the trail.

Quote from: Themightykabool on September 01, 2019, 06:45:45 AM

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 06:38:36 AM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 31, 2019, 06:09:48 PM

What Southern Star trails (videos) can I trust are real?

Easy.

Southern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating clockwise.

Northern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating counter-clockwise.

Explain that with your flat earth.


I couldn't careless what they superimpose on the video.  If the star trail rotates counter-clockwise it's a video of northern stars.  If the star trail rotates clockwise it's a video of southern stars.

You dont need to trust any videos.
Go outside.
Go on vacation to S argentina.

You're right you don't need to trust any videos.   But you can't see a star trail without a video.  You can watch the stars move during the night but you aren't going to see the trail.

If you drink enough cheap wine, you can probably see star trails.

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 31, 2019, 06:09:48 PM

What Southern Star trails (videos) can I trust are real?

Easy.

Southern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating clockwise.

Northern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating counter-clockwise.

Explain that with your flat earth.

If there are two people standing back to back and one is looking north and the other south, and a star passes from east to west in front of both of them, tell me which star passed west to east?

Do you now understand how lame your argument is? And do you understand how long members in the Globe community have used this argument as actual proof earth is a sphere? Did you know you will continue to use the same lame assed argument? Why?

When you use this argument again please let them also know there are two universes visible. One above the north pole and one above the south pole and they rotate in the opposite direction. Then provide detailed information for a north and south universe.

BTW, the results are the same on a Flat Earth. How do you explan that with your Globe Earth?

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 07:03:19 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on September 01, 2019, 06:45:45 AM

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 06:38:36 AM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 31, 2019, 06:09:48 PM

What Southern Star trails (videos) can I trust are real?

Easy.

Southern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating clockwise.

Northern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating counter-clockwise.

Explain that with your flat earth.


I couldn't careless what they superimpose on the video.  If the star trail rotates counter-clockwise it's a video of northern stars.  If the star trail rotates clockwise it's a video of southern stars.

You dont need to trust any videos.
Go outside.
Go on vacation to S argentina.

You're right you don't need to trust any videos.   But you can't see a star trail without a video.  You can watch the stars move during the night but you aren't going to see the trail.

If you drink enough cheap wine, you can probably see star trails.

Yes and if you drink enough cheap wine you will be able to see the curve and feel Earth's movement too.

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 06:38:36 AM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 31, 2019, 06:09:48 PM

What Southern Star trails (videos) can I trust are real?

Easy.

Southern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating clockwise.

Northern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating counter-clockwise.

Explain that with your flat earth.

If there are two people standing back to back and one is looking north and the other south, and a star passes from east to west in front of both of them, tell me which star passed west to east?

Do you now understand how lame your argument is? And do you understand how long members in the Globe community have used this argument as actual proof earth is a sphere? Did you know you will continue to use the same lame assed argument? Why?

When you use this argument again please let them also know there are two universes visible. One above the north pole and one above the south pole and they rotate in the opposite direction. Then provide detailed information for a north and south universe.

BTW, the results are the same on a Flat Earth. How do you explan that with your Globe Earth?

Aaaaahhaa

Go to walmart and buy a clear clock (clear from back side).
Youre refuting how turning works now?

Well,  after further research about the possibility of Sigma Octantis and how it would work on our Plane Earth, I have to admit, I’m a bit embarrassed because I was duped again by more tales of a Globe theory. They have a history of making up crap and say if you don’t believe this then you’re stupid and want to live in the caveman days. This is much like when they try to pass off a mountain casting a shadow on the bottom side of clouds during a sunset. They say this is 100% proof of sphere earth and you’re an idiot if you don’t believe so. But it is clear it’s a weather phenomenon that happens once a year. They have been painting a globe for a long time with all types of tales deceiving the innocent. It’s really a shame.

During my research, I did find some interesting things and changed my meme to reflect the same.

Is it clear that turning east is still turning east regardless of starting from south or north?

Or how about clockwise vs ccw?
You figure that out yet?

Well,  after further research about the possibility Sigma Octantis and how it would work on our Plane Earth, I have to admit, I’m a bit embarrassed because I was duped again by more tales of a Globe theory. They have a history of making up crap and say if you don’t believe this then you’re stupid and want to live in the caveman days. This is much like when they try to pass off a mountain casting a shadow on the bottom side of clouds during a sunset. They say this is 100% proof of sphere earth and you’re an idiot if you don’t believe so. But it is clear it’s a weather phenomenon that happens once a year. They have been painting a globe for a long time with all types of tales deceiving the innocent. It’s really a shame.

During my research, I did find some interesting things and changed my meme to reflect the same.

That's right , don't let evidence and facts get in the way of your beliefs.

If there are two people standing back to back and one is looking north and the other south, and a star passes from east to west in front of both of them, tell me which star passed west to east?
Do you now understand how lame your argument is?

You are the one who seems to be presenting a lame argument, completely strawmanning the RE argument and ignoring reality and yet again ignoring the massive problem which a FE cannot solve.

Try having 2 people looking at a giant clock above them, one facing towards the centre and one facing away from the centre.
Tell me, which saw the clock appear to rotate counter-clockwise?
No one.

Now go get 2 transparent clocks, so you can see through them.
Have them put on 2 walls, with both clocks facing to the north (so one clock faces the wall).
Now, have our 2 people back to back again.
One will see the clock rotating clockwise, while the others sees it rotating counter clockwise (because he is looking at the back).

Of if you want a better comparison to the globe, have 2 people sit on a merry go round, with a transparent floor. Have objects above and below them (not on the merry go round). Now have one look down and the other look up. Again, they will see objects appear to move with different rotation.

When you use this argument again please let them also know there are two universes visible.

If you wish to claim such garbage you can back it up.
Until then I will continue with the very 1 universe which is observed. This rotation in the opposite direction is entirely due to how you view rotation.
2 people viewing a rotating object from different sides of a plane passing perpendicular to the axis of rotation will see it rotate in opposite directions.

For a RE, that is what you expect as someone looking north is looking in the opposite direction to someone looking south. But for a FE, they are both looking up at the same sky and thus should see it rotate the same.

The other impossibility for a FE is that the north and south celestial pole are always 180 degrees apart, yet you can circle them.
This requires 2 straight lines to intersect in some finite distance, impossible for a flat Earth.

Well,  after further research about the possibility of Sigma Octantis and how it would work on our Plane Earth, I have to admit, I’m a bit embarrassed because I was duped again by more tales of a Globe theory.

You mean now that you realise your pathetic arguments to try and have it work on a FE fail, you now need to dismiss it all as fake as it clearly shows Earth is not flat.

So I take it that means you admit the south celestial pole is an impossibility for a FE and thus its existence and location shows that Earth is not flat?

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 06:38:36 AM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 31, 2019, 06:09:48 PM

What Southern Star trails (videos) can I trust are real?

Easy.

Southern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating clockwise.

Northern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating counter-clockwise.

Explain that with your flat earth.

If there are two people standing back to back and one is looking north and the other south, and a star passes from east to west in front of both of them, tell me which star passed west to east?

Exactly!

The one looking north sees the stars appearing to rotate anti-clockwise about a single point, the North Celestial Pole but
the one looking south sees the stars appearing to rotate clockwise about another single point, the South Celestial Pole.

Where on your flat earth model are those two separate points?

BTW, the results are the same on a Flat Earth.

The are not the same on your Flat Earth model.
There is no way you can have those two, and only two, distinct points about which the stars appear to rotate.

You previously came up with a separate Sigma Octantis for each viewing direction but that was shown to be ridiculous!

How do you explan that with your Globe Earth?

I don't have to because the results are NOT the same on the Globe anf a Flat Earth, no way!

I find it interesting that when these two maps are combined and, hypothetically, if you wanted to reach the closest landmass to the outside of the ice boundary by way of land as much as possible, you would choose it by longitude. And it’s interesting the continents outside form the Southern Cross.

How about you?

I find it interesting that when these two maps are combined and, hypothetically, if you wanted to reach the closest landmass to the outside of the ice boundary by way of land as much as possible, you would choose it by longitude. And it’s interesting the continents outside form the Southern Cross.

How about you?

So there are 5 Southern Crosses?

I find it interesting that when these two maps are combined and, hypothetically, if you wanted to reach the closest landmass to the outside of the ice boundary by way of land as much as possible, you would choose it by longitude. And it’s interesting the continents outside form the Southern Cross.

I find it more interesting that you have been presented with a massive problem for your flat fantasy and instead of even attempting to address it you just repeatedly dodge it.
These continents aren't making up the southern cross.
With all the bits of land out there it isn't surprising that you can make it go to another, especially when you just rotate the inner map.
With all the possibilities it isn't surprising at all.

Now care to explain how the south celestial pole works?

I find it interesting that when these two maps are combined and, hypothetically, if you wanted to reach the closest landmass to the outside of the ice boundary by way of land as much as possible, you would choose it by longitude. And it’s interesting the continents outside form the Southern Cross.
How about you?

So you take a map that states on it that it is a Projection, obviously of the Globe and place in then centre of a known "Hoax Map" fabricated around the beginning of the 20th century and expect it to mean something?

You do have a vivid imagination, Mr Plat Terra. I prefer to the history of the Globe earth as it is and not from your dreams!

Had you forgotten this post so soon?

Wonderful! You take a hoax map and invent a whole new hypothesis about southern stars from it. Have you forgotten this?

Quote from: rabinoz on August 28, 2019, 11:17:13 PM

Quote

                           Hawaiian Gazette January 11, 1911
As I wrote in a blog post discussing this article, the following article comes to us from the January 11, 1907 edition of the Hawaiian Gazette and alleges to be a map of the world made in Japan more than 1,000 years ago. But as critical readers will notice, the story has more than a few hints of the Zeno Map story. As with that infamous map, this one is also a redrawn modern copy of an allegedly ancient map unseen by anyone. Like the Zeno Map, the original was also allegedly rotten with age, explained by a mysterious ancient letter unseen by anyone else, and it also serves to glorify the geographic areas connected to its “discoverer.” In this case a Japanese resident of Hawaii found a map in Japan that was ignorant of Madagascar, Greenland, and Polynesia but somehow managed to include Hawaii front and center!
 
There’s a pretty good indication that the journalist who wrote the piece knew it was a hoax: He compares it to James De Mille’s 1888 novel Manuscript found in a Copper Cylinder, a satirical tale of an underground world.

Run away and stop foisting more flat earth hoaxes on us!

Just looking at the map should prove it''s not a genuine 1000 year old map!

                                    Was This World Map Made Ten Centuries Ago?
1000 years ago none of the West coast of South America, New Zealand nor Australia were known.
But South America was known to be much closer to Africa than on that known hoax map!

So, rather obviously the basis of your hypothesis is nothing more than a hoax perpetrated around the start of the last century!

As I've post elsewhere, it's not just Sigma Octantis that you have worry about but all the Southern Constellations.
First there are the Southern Circumpolar Constellations such as the bright Centaurus and the Southern Cross.
Then there are many more that can be seen almost the time from far enough south.

And these constellations are not just visible in those countries but everywhere around the Southern Hemisphere.

Please learn a little of what is already known about astronomy before inventing your own new astronomy!

Are you totally incapable of learning anything new?

I find it interesting that when these two maps are combined and, hypothetically, if you wanted to reach the closest landmass to the outside of the ice boundary by way of land as much as possible, you would choose it by longitude. And it’s interesting the continents outside form the Southern Cross.

How about you?

I find more interesting how equatorial mounts work. You align the mount's polar axis with the earth's rotation axis, so that the mount rotates to compensate earth's rotation. The scope stays fixed to the object you want to make pictures of, such as constellations, planets or the moon.

Equatorial mounts eliminate field rotation and make all those beautiful long exposure pictures possible.

Many amateur astronomers in the southern hemisphere use Sigma Octantis to align their equatorial mounts with the earth's rotation axis... and it works.

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 07:03:19 AM

Quote from: Themightykabool on September 01, 2019, 06:45:45 AM

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical on September 01, 2019, 06:38:36 AM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 31, 2019, 06:09:48 PM

What Southern Star trails (videos) can I trust are real?

Easy.

Southern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating clockwise.

Northern Star Trail videos will have stars rotating counter-clockwise.

Explain that with your flat earth.


I couldn't careless what they superimpose on the video.  If the star trail rotates counter-clockwise it's a video of northern stars.  If the star trail rotates clockwise it's a video of southern stars.

You dont need to trust any videos.
Go outside.
Go on vacation to S argentina.

You're right you don't need to trust any videos.   But you can't see a star trail without a video.  You can watch the stars move during the night but you aren't going to see the trail.

If you drink enough cheap wine, you can probably see star trails.

What happens after expensive wine?

Well,  after further research about the possibility of Sigma Octantis and how it would work on our Plane Earth, I have to admit, I’m a bit embarrassed because I was duped again by more tales of a Globe theory.

What exactly are you claiming was duplicitous?  And what sort of "research" did you perform?

They have a history of making up crap and say if you don’t believe this then you’re stupid and want to live in the caveman days.

No, you keep getting called out on your bullshit because its bullshit.  You make claim after baseless claim, dodge or ignore questions that challenge your worldview, and then have the open academic dishonesty to play the victim; that we are putting you down for not agreeing.  The reality remains that you are failing to defend your argument due to your own ignorance of the topics involved.  Nearly everyone here has attempted to break this paradox down for you and your solution has been to avoid, ignore, and then play the victim.

This is much like when they try to pass off a mountain casting a shadow on the bottom side of clouds during a sunset.

There is photographic evidence of this, it does make the Earth being flat a difficult theory to defend.  If the sun and moon dance about on a parallel plane, then there should never be an instance where light is seen coming from underneath the clouds.  The fact you can't reconcile this is not evidence of everyone else being mean or deceptive, it is evidence that you cannot apply even a modicum of critical thinking to this issue.

They say this is 100% proof of sphere earth and you’re an idiot if you don’t believe so.

What can be clearly concluded, as I've stated to you before, is that it is 100% proof that the world is not flat.

But it is clear it’s a weather phenomenon that happens once a year. They have been painting a globe for a long time with all types of tales deceiving the innocent.

WTF are you on about now?

It’s really a shame.

You've summed up the whole FE debate very succinctly.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 01, 2019, 12:11:00 PM

Well,  after further research about the possibility of Sigma Octantis and how it would work on our Plane Earth, I have to admit, I’m a bit embarrassed because I was duped again by more tales of a Globe theory.

What exactly are you claiming was duplicitous?  And what sort of "research" did you perform?

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 01, 2019, 12:11:00 PM

They have a history of making up crap and say if you don’t believe this then you’re stupid and want to live in the caveman days.

No, you keep getting called out on your bullshit because its bullshit.  You make claim after baseless claim, dodge or ignore questions that challenge your worldview, and then have the open academic dishonesty to play the victim; that we are putting you down for not agreeing.  The reality remains that you are failing to defend your argument due to your own ignorance of the topics involved.  Nearly everyone here has attempted to break this paradox down for you and your solution has been to avoid, ignore, and then play the victim.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 01, 2019, 12:11:00 PM

This is much like when they try to pass off a mountain casting a shadow on the bottom side of clouds during a sunset.

There is photographic evidence of this, it does make the Earth being flat a difficult theory to defend.  If the sun and moon dance about on a parallel plane, then there should never be an instance where light is seen coming from underneath the clouds.  The fact you can't reconcile this is not evidence of everyone else being mean or deceptive, it is evidence that you cannot apply even a modicum of critical thinking to this issue.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 01, 2019, 12:11:00 PM

They say this is 100% proof of sphere earth and you’re an idiot if you don’t believe so.

What can be clearly concluded, as I've stated to you before, is that it is 100% proof that the world is not flat.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 01, 2019, 12:11:00 PM

But it is clear it’s a weather phenomenon that happens once a year. They have been painting a globe for a long time with all types of tales deceiving the innocent.

WTF are you on about now?

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 01, 2019, 12:11:00 PM

It’s really a shame.

You've summed up the whole FE debate very succinctly.

There is nothing to defend. You have only claims. You let us know when it's been documented (with video and witnesses) that people on the phone at both places have seen the star at the same time due south from Cape horn and Cape hope.  And multiple times, because true science is repeatable. And then do it with Australia and cape hope in the same manner. Until then it’s theatrical fantasy you think is real, and don’t have a real argument.

Sounds like psuedo-science to me

There is nothing to defend. You have only claims. You let us know when it's been documented (with video and witnesses) that people on the phone at both places have seen the star at the same time due south from Cape horn and Cape hope.

You're an idiot.  The Southern Cross is to the south.  Always. Has. Been.  The reason this debate is pointless falls completely on your ignorance of both the written word and basic logic.  You are the party claiming the Earth is flat, the burden of proof is your responsibility.

I've presented the paradox and you lack the simple mental capacity to visualize the problem; this is your problem, not mine.  Your inability to conceptualize has led you to this dead end of a hypothesis.  Good luck in life pal.

And multiple times, because true science is repeatable. And then do it with Australia and cape hope in the same manner. Until then it’s theatrical fantasy you think is real, and don’t have a real argument.

As has been pointed out to you before, when presented with a problem you cannot reconcile, you ignore, avoid, or claim the victim.  This is no different.  Own your position and deal with the problem or acknowledge your theory is flawed.  Otherwise, all you are doing is coming off like a complete moron. 

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 03, 2019, 06:10:33 PM

There is nothing to defend. You have only claims. You let us know when it's been documented (with video and witnesses) that people on the phone at both places have seen the star at the same time due south from Cape horn and Cape hope.

You're an idiot.  The Southern Cross is to the south.  Always. Has. Been.  The reason this debate is pointless falls completely on your ignorance of both the written word and basic logic.  You are the party claiming the Earth is flat, the burden of proof is your responsibility.

I've presented the paradox and you lack the simple mental capacity to visualize the problem; this is your problem, not mine.  Your inability to conceptualize has led you to this dead end of a hypothesis.  Good luck in life pal.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 03, 2019, 06:10:33 PM

And multiple times, because true science is repeatable. And then do it with Australia and cape hope in the same manner. Until then it’s theatrical fantasy you think is real, and don’t have a real argument.

As has been pointed out to you before, when presented with a problem you cannot reconcile, you ignore, avoid, or claim the victim.  This is no different.  Own your position and deal with the problem or acknowledge your theory is flawed.  Otherwise, all you are doing is coming off like a complete moron.

Explain why southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as norther star trails.

There is nothing to defend. You have only claims. You let us know when it's been documented (with video and witnesses) that people on the phone at both places have seen the star at the same time due south from Cape horn and Cape hope.  And multiple times, because true science is repeatable. And then do it with Australia and cape hope in the same manner. Until then it’s theatrical fantasy you think is real, and don’t have a real argument.

We don't have to prove anything! You are challenging what has been known for centuries so you must provide proof!

You have never presented any contrary evidence!

So, since you have nothing to present other than pure guesswork,  a known hoax map and a stated composite photo, I'll stick to what I can see with my own eyes.

Bye bye, come back when you have real, not fake evidence.

Explain why southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as norther star trails.

There's nothing to explain! If you think that "southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as northern star trails" prove it!

Explain why southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as norther star trails.

I usually don't answer questions with questions but I need to know why you feel that's significant.  If you can tell me why that feature is important to your position, I'll do my best to answer your question.

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 03, 2019, 06:37:56 PM

Explain why southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as norther star trails.

I usually don't answer questions with questions but I need to know why you feel that's significant.  If you can tell me why that feature is important to your position, I'll do my best to answer your question.

 I have detailed answers to you.  Answer the question.

I have detailed answers to you.  Answer the question.

Plat, I'm asking because I don't understand how the presentation of a star-trail is of any importance to their existence.  Without knowing what equipment was used to record the video in question, I can't give you a straightforward answer.  The aperture of the camera and size of the lens all determine how much light can be pulled in during the recording which can vary the results greatly.  After watching the video in question, I would say the difference is probably due to the equipment.

So, why does that matter?

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 03, 2019, 06:45:41 PM

I have detailed answers to you.  Answer the question.

Plat, I'm asking because I don't understand how the presentation of a star-trail is of any importance to their existence.  Without knowing what equipment was used to record the video in question, I can't give you a straightforward answer.  The aperture of the camera and size of the lens all determine how much light can be pulled in during the recording which can vary the results greatly.  After watching the video in question, I would say the difference is probably due to the equipment.

So, why does that matter?

General and simple observation of all trails shows all southern stars trails are in fact not as not as narrow as the north?  Why?

Quote from: Gumwars on September 03, 2019, 06:41:06 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 03, 2019, 06:37:56 PM

Explain why southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as norther star trails.

I usually don't answer questions with questions but I need to know why you feel that's significant.  If you can tell me why that feature is important to your position, I'll do my best to answer your question.

 I have detailed answers to you.  Answer the question.

Before anyone can answer
          "Explain why southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as norther star trails"
YOU must prove that "southern star trails are not as narrow (tunnel effect) as norther star trails"!

We're waiting for your proof!

General and simple observation of all trails shows all southern stars trails are in fact not as not as narrow as the north?  Why?

Your empty unsupported words are not good enough! Show photos or other evidence demonstrating your assertion.

Quote from: Gumwars on September 03, 2019, 06:50:56 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on September 03, 2019, 06:45:41 PM

I have detailed answers to you.  Answer the question.

Plat, I'm asking because I don't understand how the presentation of a star-trail is of any importance to their existence.  Without knowing what equipment was used to record the video in question, I can't give you a straightforward answer.  The aperture of the camera and size of the lens all determine how much light can be pulled in during the recording which can vary the results greatly.  After watching the video in question, I would say the difference is probably due to the equipment.

So, why does that matter?

General and simple observation of all trails shows all southern stars trails are in fact not as not as narrow as the north?  Why?

I'm not even sure what you mean by "narrow". And your general and simple observation means the general and simple observation of the images that you googled, right?
In any case, the way to create a star trail photograph is with a long exposure. Depending upon the lens used, the Fstop and duration of exposure, the trails could be thick, thin, narrow, wide, bright, dim, broken, or like a stream.

What's your point?