Go woke, go broke lol

We have women only gyms and spaces because some women fill uncomfortable with men gawking at them. Even if a trans is not violent, why should a woman share a shower and toilet and eat with a guy (trans or pretending) when he still has his chopper

So does that extend to women, the people who'd definitely be sexually attracted to women rather than trans women who might well like guys exclusively, or are you just punishing a whole community over a stereotype again?

I actually don't have an issue with a cis male being put in a womens prison if they have lived a life as a woman, have all the hormones done as well as chopping off their dick. If they decide one day tey want to live life as a woman and look everything like a guy right down to a hairy nutsack, it's simply not good enough.

Personally I tend to not expect someone to have fucking surgery on their genitals before treating them like a human being.
Early in transition, eh, that's the only point you might have an argument and even then more down to the limitations a lot of countries put down to make transitioning harder. That's about the only stage where you have even a hope of arguing they're an opportunist, because the number of people who'd permanently change their bodies like that and earn the ire of, well, almost everyone in this thread alone let alone the rest of the world... just to be a creep? Uh, no, that's paranoia.
Otherwise only taking the radical step of not actively being an asshole to someone until they're had years of often expensive medical treatment? Nope. You're the dick there.

Female prisoners, no matter their crime, belong in female prisons.

So... it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with protecting prisoners from potentially dangerous inmates, so you can fuck right off with pretending that.

Transwomen are not female. Male and female aren't identities, they are sexes. You are born one or the other (even people with DSDs are either male or female). If a transwoman commits a crime, they do not belong in female prisons.

They're identities. No one cares about chromosomes. Literally, they just don't. You're as aware as I am there's more than just XX and XY, can you honestly tell me for certain what even yours are? I couldn't tell you mine. I could take an informed guess, but eh, couldn't say for sure. Chromosomes don't matter save between you and your doctor and potentially romantic partner.

I have no idea what all your hmmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmms are about, but it's pretty hilarious.

It is, though probably not for the reason you want.

You seem to think the chromosome argument is some kind of gotcha, and that lesbians are predators.

Male and female are not identities. They are sex categories. We are not assigned male or female at birth (or before birth) we are observed male or female.

What's with the "treating them like human beings" argument? Do you think men aren't human?

Quote from: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 04:38:17 PM

We have women only gyms and spaces because some women fill uncomfortable with men gawking at them. Even if a trans is not violent, why should a woman share a shower and toilet and eat with a guy (trans or pretending) when he still has his chopper

So does that extend to women, the people who'd definitely be sexually attracted to women rather than trans women who might well like guys exclusively, or are you just punishing a whole community over a stereotype again?

Quote

I actually don't have an issue with a cis male being put in a womens prison if they have lived a life as a woman, have all the hormones done as well as chopping off their dick. If they decide one day tey want to live life as a woman and look everything like a guy right down to a hairy nutsack, it's simply not good enough.

Personally I tend to not expect someone to have fucking surgery on their genitals before treating them like a human being.
Early in transition, eh, that's the only point you might have an argument and even then more down to the limitations a lot of countries put down to make transitioning harder. That's about the only stage where you have even a hope of arguing they're an opportunist, because the number of people who'd permanently change their bodies like that and earn the ire of, well, almost everyone in this thread alone let alone the rest of the world... just to be a creep? Uh, no, that's paranoia.
Otherwise only taking the radical step of not actively being an asshole to someone until they're had years of often expensive medical treatment? Nope. You're the dick there.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 04:42:36 PM

Female prisoners, no matter their crime, belong in female prisons.

So... it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with protecting prisoners from potentially dangerous inmates, so you can fuck right off with pretending that.

Quote

Transwomen are not female. Male and female aren't identities, they are sexes. You are born one or the other (even people with DSDs are either male or female). If a transwoman commits a crime, they do not belong in female prisons.

They're identities. No one cares about chromosomes. Literally, they just don't. You're as aware as I am there's more than just XX and XY, can you honestly tell me for certain what even yours are? I couldn't tell you mine. I could take an informed guess, but eh, couldn't say for sure. Chromosomes don't matter save between you and your doctor and potentially romantic partner.

Quote

I have no idea what all your hmmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmms are about, but it's pretty hilarious.

It is, though probably not for the reason you want.

Without splitting the post Pex style I will just summarise that prisons aren't safe havens any time. Guys frequently get beat up and raped. Where's your outrage for their plight? Maybe we should have a separate prison for alpha and beta males. Those poor beta males having to bend over in the shower  Guys will even get raped by non homosexuals because rape is not about sex right? It's all about POWER.

Also Pedos get every inmates faeces thrown at them (much to my lol)

I'm pretty sure there is a Y chromosome somewhere with me. And I would suspect you have a Y chromosome somewhere floating around in you. It's probably the only thing that makes sense judging by your postings

You seem to think the chromosome argument is some kind of gotcha, and that lesbians are predators.

Male and female are not identities. They are sex categories. We are not assigned male or female at birth (or before birth) we are observed male or female.

What's with the "treating them like human beings" argument? Do you think men aren't human?

In a woke move that Jane will be pleased with the Tasmanian government has decided to NOT put on birth certificates the babies gender. In the off chance that they might decide later that they do not identify with what would otherwise be on the birth certificate later on.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/tasmania-to-be-first-aussie-state-to-remove-gender-on-birth-certificate/news-story/ec605df2b3d1384a7cff33e9c0db7f87

You're talking to the queer girl here. Fun facts! Anyone remotely active in the community knows a few trans people, and has knows at least one person who's attempted to or has killed themselves because of precisely the vitriol you're spewing here.
And for what? You aren't protecting anyone, that's palpably obvious. You're not doing anything to actually reduce danger, to actually target criminals, you're just making an assumption about a community and riding the hardline conservative prejudice to victory on it ignoring the blood on your hands. Because let's not mince words here. You're not making anything safer, you're not acting to stop predators. You're deciding a whole community has to be a predator, ignoring the predators outside it, and shrugging over the real people caught in the crossfire. In some cases you're just plain making it easier for actual predators.
You're not looking for dangers, you're looking for trans people, assuming they're the dangers, and ignoring all the other dangers rather than tackling the actual problem.

So no, don't pretend it's about protecting anyone. That's an old line, so is "I care about them, really!" And it hasn't been true yet. All you're doing is scapegoating, or finding some socially acceptable way to vent your prejudices, inventing danger so you can feel satisfied you overcame it. Meanwhile people actually live in the world with the shitstorm you stir up.
There are bad people in every community. Sure, some trans people are going to be dangerous, but I promise you that for every actual trans predator out there, there's two or three kids that killed themselves because of people like you, and don't for a fucking second pretend otherwise. No amount of hand-wringing or excuses is going to change that it is exactly this that's to blame. Exactly what you're saying here, all this pointless manipulation and invented controversy, you know precisely the attitude that invokes. It's vile, and I'm not going to act like it's not.

You're talking to the person that's actually talked to plenty of people affected. It isn't some academic debate.
Every single time the conclusions of your supposed premises are pointed out, you back down, and it always comes back to the same points. "Trans women aren't women!" "Trans men aren't men!" (They're just getting laid a lot in prison, SCG, as you apparently missed that). Because that's literally all this is. There's no lofty goals of protection, there's no making things safer or easier, it's just prejudice, plain and simple. It's old hat by now, and it's always disgusting when it tries to co-opt actually important movements. Just assuming that a whole community of people has to be lying, or predators.
So if you're wondering why I have no patience for it, there you go: there are actual people whose lives are at stake, so many more than the overblown handful of victims of mostly-invented cases of the eeeeevvil trans women, and the collective answer is 'screw them' for absolutely no good reason. For blind adherence to an incorrect and insignificant prejudice.

tl;dr: stereotyping a community protects no one, if you're looking for trans people rather than dangerous people then that's just being an asshole, gender doesn't matter and sex matters to your doctor and pretty much no one else, people are dying you penguins.

You're talking to the queer girl here. Fun facts! Anyone remotely active in the community knows a few trans people, and has knows at least one person who's attempted to or has killed themselves because of precisely the vitriol you're spewing here.
And for what? You aren't protecting anyone, that's palpably obvious. You're not doing anything to actually reduce danger, to actually target criminals, you're just making an assumption about a community and riding the hardline conservative prejudice to victory on it ignoring the blood on your hands. Because let's not mince words here. You're not making anything safer, you're not acting to stop predators. You're deciding a whole community has to be a predator, ignoring the predators outside it, and shrugging over the real people caught in the crossfire. In some cases you're just plain making it easier for actual predators.
You're not looking for dangers, you're looking for trans people, assuming they're the dangers, and ignoring all the other dangers rather than tackling the actual problem.

So no, don't pretend it's about protecting anyone. That's an old line, so is "I care about them, really!" And it hasn't been true yet. All you're doing is scapegoating, or finding some socially acceptable way to vent your prejudices, inventing danger so you can feel satisfied you overcame it. Meanwhile people actually live in the world with the shitstorm you stir up.
There are bad people in every community. Sure, some trans people are going to be dangerous, but I promise you that for every actual trans predator out there, there's two or three kids that killed themselves because of people like you, and don't for a fucking second pretend otherwise. No amount of hand-wringing or excuses is going to change that it is exactly this that's to blame. Exactly what you're saying here, all this pointless manipulation and invented controversy, you know precisely the attitude that invokes. It's vile, and I'm not going to act like it's not.

You're talking to the person that's actually talked to plenty of people affected. It isn't some academic debate.
Every single time the conclusions of your supposed premises are pointed out, you back down, and it always comes back to the same points. "Trans women aren't women!" "Trans men aren't men!" (They're just getting laid a lot in prison, SCG, as you apparently missed that). Because that's literally all this is. There's no lofty goals of protection, there's no making things safer or easier, it's just prejudice, plain and simple. It's old hat by now, and it's always disgusting when it tries to co-opt actually important movements. Just assuming that a whole community of people has to be lying, or predators.
So if you're wondering why I have no patience for it, there you go: there are actual people whose lives are at stake, so many more than the overblown handful of victims of mostly-invented cases of the eeeeevvil trans women, and the collective answer is 'screw them' for absolutely no good reason. For blind adherence to an incorrect and insignificant prejudice.

tl;dr: stereotyping a community protects no one, if you're looking for trans people rather than dangerous people then that's just being an asshole, gender doesn't matter and sex matters to your doctor and pretty much no one else, people are dying you penguins.

You sound pretty worked up and angry Jane. You should relax. Or take it to Angry Ranting.

I don't personally care if someone wants to cross dress, identify with another sex etc. It's not my business. But surely there has to be a line drawn (lets go back to sports) in where they can compete.

The link I put above has a clip of that transwoman Laurel Hubbard competing in weight lifting. Previously she competed in mens weight lifting events. Do you think that is fair on her fellow female competitors? You can get banned for taking a prescription medication which might give you a poofteeth worth of advantage. So why is no one allowed to raise an eyebrow when a male weightlifter, trans to female and competes against other females?

Another way. Imagine Usain Bolt competing next time in the womens sprinting. Do you think that would be fair? Even if he takes all the hormones do you think that will drop the edge to be on par with the other women?

Perhaps we need an entirely new section. We have one for the disabled. We can have mens, womens and trans events.

What do you think would happen to a transman in a male prison? You seem to think they're not asking to be moved because they're getting lots of pussy, but they know what would happen if they were placed with males.

Also, you really should think about all the suicide talk. You are creating a situation where young dysphoric people feel like they have no hope. They think their choice is transition or die. You should listen to some detrans people. They have a lot to say about it. I recommend gnc-centric.

Jane you are intelligent so you know it's not possible to change sex, and you know sex is a biological reality that is present in every cell of our bodies, so you know that transwomen aren't female.

Female prisoners are an extremey vulnerable population, the vast majority are not in for violent offences (I'm talking UK stats here because that's what I know) and most have been victims of DV and/or sexual abuse. On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims and you are ok with this? This has nothing to do with genuine transsexuals who are generally not a threat to women as they are usually homosexual.  Transwomen are not the only vulnerable population in male prisons, gays and younger men and the elderly are also more vulnerable but we don't suggest putting them in female prisons, so it's not about safety, it's about validation and women's safety is more important than the validation of someone's identity. More effort needs to be put into making male prisons safer, and separate wings for vulnerable prisoners, that is the only safe solution.

 On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims

Seriously? do you have a citation for this? Because this is wild if true.

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 09:44:19 PM

 On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims

Seriously? do you have a citation for this? Because this is wild if true.

I have no idea of the authenticity of this news outlet but it's not the only one to report things like this

https://www.rt.com/uk/463994-transgender-prisoners-britain-numbers/

Quote from: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 09:44:19 PM

 On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims

Seriously? do you have a citation for this? Because this is wild if true.

It's as true as can be known as they only track the trans prisoners who need a decision on where to place them in prison (male prison, female prison, vulnerable wing) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42221629

About non-dysphoria reasons for transitioning http://data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19532.html

http://data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19471.html

Is that really a male thing though? As in we are doing it to keep women down?

If you have marketable skills you get raises and promotions.

Waiting in line is not a skill. You force your way up.
Don't blame 'male' for your 'girl' lack of vigor and drive.

It's not length of time of ass in chair.
It's what you bring to the table.

Men will never acquiesce to the feminine work style.
Why would we run slower just to sandbag the finish.

Or are we expected to stand there and let you win?


If you can't do it on your own, get out of our way.

You're talking to the queer girl here. Fun facts!

Unless this was said with sarcasm, does this not explain her bias for trans people and the lgtbq as a whole? Willing to step on anyone's toes and even endanger people so they can do whatever they want with no recourse.

You are still a woman though, that is the surprising part. Or is that the mind set in the community, us against against the world, and to hell with the world

If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.   

If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

Damn Bullwinkle, someone is feisty today.

Not that I don't find that much wrong with that, however I will say as I said before, people should be able to do whatever the fuck they want without persecution....as long as it doesn't harm or infringe the rights of another.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 26, 2019, 09:05:06 AM

If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

Damn Bullwinkle, someone is feisty today.

Not that I don't find that much wrong with that, however I will say as I said before, people should be able to do whatever the fuck they want without persecution....as long as it doesn't harm or infringe the rights of another.

Funnily enough, that is what the TERFs think about it as well.

Quote from: Bom Tishop on August 26, 2019, 09:16:39 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 26, 2019, 09:05:06 AM

If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

Damn Bullwinkle, someone is feisty today.

Not that I don't find that much wrong with that, however I will say as I said before, people should be able to do whatever the fuck they want without persecution....as long as it doesn't harm or infringe the rights of another.

Funnily enough, that is what the TERFs think about it as well.

Is that good or bad? Not familiar with that acronym. I know it's something with radical feminist, I just don't know much about it.

It's supposed to stand for "trans exclusionary radical feminist" but it is thrown around at anyone who questions anything to do with the trans movement. You could replace it with bitch or witch and it would make much more sense when used in context. Those of us who've been accused of being TERFs sometimes ironically call ourselves TERFs, or terves, or terven (like a coven of witches). Most of the people accused of terfery aren't even radical feminists, some of them aren't feminists at all. For instance, there are parents who are extremely concerned about the rapid rise of children being trans who are called TERF. 

I'm not shitting on the wackos,
I just don't think bat shit crazy is a protected class.

If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

This is one of the oddest things about trans people. Somehow labeling it as some kind of disorder makes me an asshole. It's like they would prefer to think of it as an identity instead.

But an identity doesn't require paying a team of doctors 6 figure sums to rectify.

It would be like if I needed a root canal. Then I got offended whenever someone said i had a problem with my teeth. Then after i got the root canal i get offended at everyone who says I've ever had a problem with my teeth and insist that my tooth had a crown on it the entire time.

That's the thing, for some (the most vocal ones) it's not a disorder because they don't actually have gender dysphoria and don't medically transition beyond a touch of hormones and maybe breast implants because it's a sexual kink thing (autogynephilia). The ones that actually have dysphoria acknowledge that it's a medical issue that they seek medical treatment for, they also tend to be the ones that agree with TERFs. More and more transsexuals are speaking out now, the new trans rights activists aren't for their rights.

I saw a video on YouTube, Blair white I think. It was about the penis removal part of gender reassignment. It turns out that this is potentially an extremely nasty procedure with a lot of possibilities of severe side effects.

I could see why people might forgo that particular surgery.

Yeah those surgeries have a high rate of complications and not great results, I don't blame anyone for not wanting that. But it's not just about surgery, it's about therapy to look into the dysphoria to find out whether it's actually a symptom of something else (particularly an issue with young girls coming out as trans, most have a history of abuse or trauma, or are on the spectrum, or have mental health issues) or exists in its own right, or if there's no dysphoria at all. But activists call this gatekeeping and are against it, even though it's an essential step in the process to protect vulnerable people from making permanent life-changing decisions. Too many detransitioners coming out now telling how they were pushed onto hormones and offered surgery very quickly with little or no psychological assessment. And they detransition with their bodies left damaged.

Yeah, I watch Blaire's videos. I agree that surgery shouldn't be done, and the people they're doing it on are basically guinea pigs. Blaire's videos on trans issues are great, the ones about feminism are pretty shallow, but if your only experience with feminism is this intersectional consumerist version then that is understandable, because it is shallow.  I also enjoy Rose of Dawn's videos, because stupidity is intersectional!

If you really want to be horrified, look up phalloplasty.

If you really want to be horrified, look up phalloplasty.

Is that like those boiled peanuts?   

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2019, 11:38:51 AM

If you really want to be horrified, look up phalloplasty.

Is that like those boiled peanuts?   

Well, it looks kinda boiled.

I have a feeling it looks like mangled bait.
No inclination to search.