Go woke, go broke lol

Quote from: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 23, 2019, 04:48:34 AM

Because, it needs you and the Shifters of this world in counter point to the agendist’s (not a word, I know), to make this a story, someone makes a bad call on redressing what is seen by most as an unbalanced preponderance of white guys getting all the parts, and you have a jeering crowd form shouting “take that you PC man haters”, I don’t get it.

Normally I would give someone shit on a post like this, however, you are usually pretty intelligent/reasonable, so I am just going to assume a misunderstanding.

Let me try and clear it up.

Example from a post above talking to Jane. I rejected her example of black panther/wonder woman movies being "woke", because in my eyes they were not.

I thought both were fantastic movies, great plots, great directing, acting and story lines for the characters. There was nothing forced or PC about them, they told a story and did it well.

So again, what I disagree with is when people make casting decisions or stories based on PC culture and quotas. It makes me cringe, and obviously I am not alone. It has nothing to do with what color or sex is on the screen, I literally could not care less.


I would have called black panther racist if it featured an all white cast. I would have been like wtf what KKK member made this movie. It goes against the comics and about all things the black panther character stood for.

So I repeat, you are 100 percent incorrect with your opinion

Agree. Black Panther was awesome. The characters fit the story and it's an original movie (ie not a reboot)

Wonder Woman was also awesome. Great actress and story and didn't pretend it was the first to do so.

Captain Marvel had a shitty actress who kept running her mouth off at white men during its promotion.

I actually hate when Hollywood white washes movies myself. Examples are shows like Noah or Exodus when they get white Anglo Saxon people to play Middle Easterners and Middle Easterners to play supporting roles. Shit

By the same token I don't think much of brown washing a character either. A good example is the upcoming 'The Little Mermaid'. Ariel is a white redhead. Now we get a brown lady for wokeness. So yeah, I'm sure the looney left will call me an incel but I think brown washing a character is as jarring as white washing.

I think we can agree if your motivation is wokefulness it is not good for business. In the context of movies, simply create and make a good story and let it sell itself

Quote from: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 04:56:53 AM

So again, what I disagree with is when people make casting decisions or stories based on PC culture and quotas.

Which means?

Honestly just sounds like you want to blame everything on the good old 'political correctness gone mad' when your actual objection is with token representation, and that's the optimistic reading. Sure, tokenism bugs me too, you can get a couple of scenes that make you cringe, but eh, that hardly ruins movies for me.

This token representation is powered by PC culture, it's just a byproduct.

Again, forcing it is my issue

You won't listen to a word I say though, your mind is already made up truth be damned. So here, just for you, pez and a few others.

You are right, I hate everyone excluding white straight Christian men. Women should stay in the kitchen and be used for breeding only. I actually hated black panther for obvious reasons and wonder woman was terrible and completely inaccurate. She spoke out of turn and didn't cook once.

Is everyone happy now? So ridiculous

If you don't want to watch a move, don't buy a ticket.

People certainly told Gillette what they thought using their wallets. Hopefully other companies will take notice of the incredibly costly mistake

Gillette would have done far better spending the $8 billion dollars on some developing country or even use it to fix social issues in America such as homelessness, aged care rather than interject themselves with some dumb male bashing campaign

Gillette would have done far better spending the $8 billion dollars

$8 billion?

Wow.  Soooo... Couple of things.

1. Men are dicks often.  Seriously, there is a reason why women couldn't vote until 1914.  Why every single war has been started by a man.  Testosterone causes aggression.  This is a fact of biology. 


2. When you have forced female PC, its not forced, its unfamiliar.  Remember that scene in Captain Marvel with the biker?  That shit happens.  Hell, men hit on Lesbians, even after being told they are lesbians, with "You just haven't met a real man.".  That being said, there is bad execution.  Like "I'm a woman so I won't let you oppress me because I'm just as good as you." As an actual line is bad and unnatural.  But ya know what?  My wife cheered Captain Marvel and its "Forced PC" so.... Maybe ya aren't the target audience? 

3. The ghostbusters remake sucked because they were all trying to be funny and just ended up being too jokey.  Like all of them trying to be Peter instead of their respective role.

4. Thor being taken over by Jane Foster happened in 2014, issue Thor #1.  Well, a "what if..." Was made with her finding the hammer first in 1978 but its a what if so not canon.  In the storyline she kicks ass and sacrifices her life to save Asgard.
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/7/22/20706119/female-thor-love-thunder-portman-marvel-comics-movies-thor-4

Ariel is a white redhead

Why?
Because Walt Disney made it so?  Let them reimage the character.  Its their character to reimage.

Wow.  Soooo... Couple of things.

1. Men are dicks often.  Seriously, there is a reason why women couldn't vote until 1914.  Why every single war has been started by a man.  Testosterone causes aggression.  This is a fact of biology. 


2. When you have forced female PC, its not forced, its unfamiliar.  Remember that scene in Captain Marvel with the biker?  That shit happens.  Hell, men hit on Lesbians, even after being told they are lesbians, with "You just haven't met a real man.".  That being said, there is bad execution.  Like "I'm a woman so I won't let you oppress me because I'm just as good as you." As an actual line is bad and unnatural.  But ya know what?  My wife cheered Captain Marvel and its "Forced PC" so.... Maybe ya aren't the target audience? 

3. The ghostbusters remake sucked because they were all trying to be funny and just ended up being too jokey.  Like all of them trying to be Peter instead of their respective role.

4. Thor being taken over by Jane Foster happened in 2014, issue Thor #1.  Well, a "what if..." Was made with her finding the hammer first in 1978 but its a what if so not canon.  In the storyline she kicks ass and sacrifices her life to save Asgard.
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/7/22/20706119/female-thor-love-thunder-portman-marvel-comics-movies-thor-4

I have no issue with a hammer welding chick. Why call her 'Thor' though?

Quote

Ariel is a white redhead

Why?
Because Walt Disney made it so?  Let them reimage the character.  Its their character to reimage.

No it's not. The story is based on Hans Christen Andersons story who is Scandinavian.

Also if getting technical, a mermaid (if similar with human biology at all) should have white skin to better absorb sunshine to produce vitamin D :p

1. Men are dicks often.  Seriously, there is a reason why women couldn't vote until 1914.  Why every single war has been started by a man.  Testosterone causes aggression.  This is a fact of biology. 

Lol, always man hating Dave. It's a human condition, not just men.

Men do horrible things, so do women. Hell there are entire series on television documenting evil women. It's humans in general. I guarantee it would be 50/50 men women looking at evil people.

Also, if you think every war was started by men, you are very very uneducated in history. Women just tend to pull the strings in the shadows more than men.

1. Men are dicks often.

Just often?   

2. Remember that scene in Captain Marvel with the biker?

Remember that dream I had last week?

3. The ghostbusters remake sucked because they were all trying to be funny and just ended up being too jokey.  Like all of them trying to be Peter instead of their respective role.

The movie was just a product designed to make money.

4. Thor being taken over by Jane Foster happened in 2014, issue Thor #1.

I have absolutely no idea what a Thore or a Jane Foster may or may not be.
Do they influence your reality?

This token representation is powered by PC culture, it's just a byproduct.

Again, forcing it is my issue

By 'powered by,' you mean 'called out by.'

You think that's what the left wants? Hollywood takes any opportunity to make a buck, no one's under any illusions about that. Am I happier they'd prefer the 'inspire this demographic' train as opposed to the 'throw them under the bus, Birth of a Nation reboot mofos!' one? Sure, no question, and if it's done right it manages to go into new areas rather than making the same dumb formula again. But the flaw isn't with 'PC culture,' it's Hollywood looking for a cash grab. Don't blame the people they're exploiting for being exploited.

I have no issue with a hammer welding chick. Why call her 'Thor' though?

Because superheroes. Why is that other dude called Shazam when he can't even say his own superhero name without losing his powers? (Well, because Marvel trademarked the rights to the name Captain Marvel, but you know what I mean).
Or if you want to be technical, 'whosoever wields this hammer shall get the power of Thor.'
Like, you're not losing anything here. Chris Hemsworth Thor is still around, as are the other two Chris movies, the original Little Mermaid still exists, the original Ghostbusters still exist, if you want a Dark Phoenix movie with apparently less 'PC culture' you've got Last Stand and you're welcome to it. The number of white guy movies is staggering and they're not going away. Why does it bother you that other movies exist?

None of these casting decisions are "politically correct". Political correctness is a form of censorship in order to avoid insulting, or hurting the feelings of, "marginalized" people. Sometimes pc gets mixed up with regular old politeness and manners, and sometimes it is real.

I am not bothered by the movie studios playing around with casting. They may be pandering to the woke, but they are not woke themselves. They just want to make money.

The real test of wokeness equals brokeness is Teen Vogue. Has coming out as the wokest magazine hurt their subscriptions and clicks? (they are online only now) Is Conde Nast making money from Teen Vogue teaching teen girls (excuse me, uterus havers) how to take it up the ass?

Why does it bother you that other movies exist?

It doesn't actually. Care factor zero, just pointing out facts. I simply don't see them. I'm simply flabbergasted why people invest and produce movies we never needed or asked for anyway. The new Ghost Busters, Oceans 8 and the upcoming Charlies Angel's among them

Gillette rubbed people off the wrong way and with good reason.

Mass Effect Andromeda was a bother because I waited nearly 5 years for that. And it going woke broke not only the game but the entire mass effect franchise!

You are right, I hate everyone excluding white straight Christian men. Women should stay in the kitchen and be used for breeding only. I actually hated black panther for obvious reasons and wonder woman was terrible and completely inaccurate. She spoke out of turn and didn't cook once.

Is everyone happy now? So ridiculous

So I looked up the Gillette add, and while it seemed to me to be over egging the macho man as I remember, kids fighting would have gotten a foot up the arse and told to pack it in, never looked on with pride, and it was a spectacular shot in the foot as a promotion apparently, it did have some relevant points about domination and maintenance of privilege, and I didn’t hear them “literally call most men evil”, and here is where we differ.
Conservatives by nature abhor change and generally rail against it, much of my extended family is of this ilk, “PC gone mad” when they introduce seat belts, and so on. The Lefties like me are more open to change (in my experience), thinking we can be better, rather than looking for safety in tradition.

The add I saw, could, if it had not been taken over by the urge to list every possible male fault, by putting a question mark on the tag-line, “The best a man can get”, been a really good advert, it failed because it was.


We can as humans be better than we are, if not then it’s all fucked, if my comments seemed scathing, it was a reaction to the underlying contempt that underscored the point you were making, which I partly agreed with, born from hearing this brand of conservatism through much of my life and knowing where the currents led. If I had that wrong, then my apologies.   

I think it is hilarious that Gillette charges girls more than men for the same product.

The pink tax. Many of us avoid the girly colored shavers and just go with the manly green or orange ones. They're identical in everything but color.

If there's a reason to be pissed off it's this.
Not their stupid ad.

The pink tax. Many of us avoid the girly colored shavers and just go with the manly green or orange ones. They're identical in everything but color.

It's quite amusing a company that tried to promote itself as progressive is still so much a corporate greedy bastard in this respect.

A tampon company 'Libra' going NEXT LEVEL WOKE!

https://www.10daily.com.au/amp/news/australia/a190821kfzxu/libra-ad-to-show-period-blood-on-television-in-an-australian-first-20190822

Showing 'real period blood' on TV to show everyone its normal. PS Web link is gross. Don't click if you don't want to see

Lets see real semen in condoms next and real shit on toilet paper. It's normal.

Another instance of wokeness not equaling brokeness - the tech "giants". Google, Facebook, Twitter etc, all promote woke ideology. They censor people who do not. Google Play will suspend apps if they're to be used on sites that contain content they don't approve of. You may be thinking it's just the Nazis they disapprove of, but no, feminists too.  Automattic (just bought tumblr) shut down feminist wordpress blogs that dared to talk about Jonathan (#waxmyballs) Yaniv. Twitter bans people, on the left or right, who dare to have an opinion outside woke approved rhetoric.

None of these companies or industries are actually woke, as in aware of social justice issues and fighting to make things better. It's all cynical capitalism, which okay, we are a capitalist society, but it irritates me that people buy into it.

Another instance of wokeness not equaling brokeness - the tech "giants". Google, Facebook, Twitter etc, all promote woke ideology. They censor people who do not. Google Play will suspend apps if they're to be used on sites that contain content they don't approve of. You may be thinking it's just the Nazis they disapprove of, but no, feminists too.  Automattic (just bought tumblr) shut down feminist wordpress blogs that dared to talk about Jonathan (#waxmyballs) Yaniv. Twitter bans people, on the left or right, who dare to have an opinion outside woke approved rhetoric.

None of these companies or industries are actually woke, as in aware of social justice issues and fighting to make things better. It's all cynical capitalism, which okay, we are a capitalist society, but it irritates me that people buy into it.

When you say banning feminist I assume you mean the ones that don't agree with the third wave bullshit such as yourself.

Also the stuff you are talking about with teen Vogue, I hope that is an exaggeration, that my gut says it isn't.

So I looked up the Gillette add, and while it seemed to me to be over egging the macho man as I remember, kids fighting would have gotten a foot up the arse and told to pack it in, never looked on with pride, and it was a spectacular shot in the foot as a promotion apparently, it did have some relevant points about domination and maintenance of privilege, and I didn’t hear them “literally call most men evil”, and here is where we differ.
Conservatives by nature abhor change and generally rail against it, much of my extended family is of this ilk, “PC gone mad” when they introduce seat belts, and so on. The Lefties like me are more open to change (in my experience), thinking we can be better, rather than looking for safety in tradition.

The add I saw, could, if it had not been taken over by the urge to list every possible male fault, by putting a question mark on the tag-line, “The best a man can get”, been a really good advert, it failed because it was.


We can as humans be better than we are, if not then it’s all fucked, if my comments seemed scathing, it was a reaction to the underlying contempt that underscored the point you were making, which I partly agreed with, born from hearing this brand of conservatism through much of my life and knowing where the currents led. If I had that wrong, then my apologies.   

I absolutely agree with attempting to approve ones self and society. I certainly try myself, and I am open in changing if it's for the better. I view it more how I run my business.

I have zero ego whatsoever, if it's better I will do it as long as it's moral. Even if my clean up crew tells me an idea, I would never dismiss it out of ego just because they are the clean up clue. I listen and consider everything in business and my personal life.

If I think it's unhealthy or not moral I will fight it with every ounce of my soul.

I am also aware of traits that truly are "toxic masculinity" and do my best to avoid them.

However, that Gillette campaign was complete bullshit and spit on men as a whole. To hell with them, will never use their product again

But the flaw isn't with 'PC culture,' it's Hollywood looking for a cash grab. Don't blame the people they're exploiting for being exploited.

I can't disagree with you here. It's all about the money for sure. I would put a silver dollar on the fact 90 percent of people higher up in Hollywood could give two shits about equality, minorities or women. They are probably quit abysmal human beings.

I guess what I more meant is Hollywood is still reflecting the will of the left, at least the further left, which is the only ones with a voice currently. So we still have to see it, even though Hollywood isn't doing it because they believe in it.

I guess what I more meant is Hollywood is still reflecting the will of the left, at least the further left, which is the only ones with a voice currently. So we still have to see it, even though Hollywood isn't doing it because they believe in it.

Centre-left, easily. Wait until they give Wonder Woman a girlfriend and bring Nia Nal to the big screen before you start complaining about the far left, and even then there'll be a ways to go. Though at least you can join in with SCG then. Depicting groups other than white men with a few hamfisted quips is the bare minumum, it really isn't a big deal to anyone except thin-skinned folks on the right.

The worst of the worst here is pretty much just the equivalent of Oscar bait, creating something for the express purpose of manipulating the audience, and those hardly get the level of vitriol that got directed at Ghostbusters, Captain Marvel... It's beyond ridiculous. Making it about the representation even more so. The problem is and will always be executive meddling, rushed writing and poor directing meaning the end result was surface-level manipulation rather than an engaging story. I mean, the examples listed in Shifter's OP were hardly that bad (at least the ones I've seen), but as far as what the 'further left' wants goes, they want Black Panther, they want Wonder Woman, they're the ones that get praised and talked about endlessly. They don't want things like Disney's throw-away gay character in Beauty and the Beast added purely to get headlines. But even then, the worst case scenarios tend to just have a few hamfisted scenes and are hardly worse than your run-of-the-mill average movie.
Don't blame the eeeevvill sjws for everything.

It doesn't actually. Care factor zero, just pointing out facts. I simply don't see them.

Sure...

I'm simply flabbergasted why people invest and produce movies we never needed or asked for anyway. The new Ghost Busters, Oceans 8 and the upcoming Charlies Angel's among them

It's more stupid that they make movies people asked for, making movies people ask for is how you end up with billions of dumb sequels and reboots.

Gillette rubbed people off the wrong way and with good reason.

Because the people calling others snowflakes are actually extremely fragile?

Mass Effect Andromeda was a bother because I waited nearly 5 years for that. And it going woke broke not only the game but the entire mass effect franchise!

What did they do, add a female character?

Don't blame the eeeevvill sjws for everything.

Hey, I blamed the greedy executives too! They just pander to the far left nonsense. Just don't put a black woman in a part that calls for a white male. Or an Asian man in a part for a white woman, etc etc...just leave the quotas. Don't pander the script for the left either... I am fine. Though really I am fine either way, I could give two shits about the entertainment industry. Also really in the grand scheme of things, all the problems the industry has, this is very small.


I will say though, the left almost made me miss a fantastic movie (black panther) as I avoided it from all the usual far left groups going on about it (and trying to take credit for it). I only watched it after infinity war because I liked wakanda and the actors/actresses, glad I did obviously.

Though I saw nothing really far left in it, I don't know what the fuss was about. Neither did I with wonder woman. Probably just the far left trying to stir shit as usual.

I haven't seen captain Marvel, but I didn't have any issue with her in endgame. However, I know the lead actress in real life is a big time man hater.

No one asked for all those Adam Sandler movies, but we got them anyway.

And Slime, I do not have a problem with trans characters on the TV or in movies, or with Wonder Woman having a girlfriend, so I don't know what you are referring to. I have a problem with censorship. I have a problem with women being banned for the truth.

Edit, I literally used tags for Slemon, but typed lime. wtf

No one asked for all those Adam Sandler movies, but we got them anyway.

I can't even argue with this. All of his crap movies at least lead to the few classics, so maybe the pain was worth the reward.

What I'm saying here, is that certain people (the Shitlers of the world) freak out about bad movies if they're seen as feminist, or woke, or whatever, but there are all kinds of shit movies. A movie being made right now will be shit. A movie being made right now could be the shittiest movie ever made. They'll keep on making them as long as people are paying to see them. One of those movies being made could end up being great. You never know.

What I'm saying here, is that certain people (the Shitlers of the world) freak out about bad movies if they're seen as feminist, or woke, or whatever, but there are all kinds of shit movies. A movie being made right now will be shit. A movie being made right now could be the shittiest movie ever made. They'll keep on making them as long as people are paying to see them. One of those movies being made could end up being great. You never know.

I don't disagree, as Jane said and I agreed, it's all just money.

I think it's the fact the left uses certain movies as a weapon which makes them more than a bad movie (or sometimes a good movie) Just as my example with black panther

Lots of people praised Black Panther, but I don't know how they made it into a weapon.

Though I saw nothing really far left in it, I don't know what the fuss was about. Neither did I with wonder woman.

Because it's representation. That is literally all the 'far left' is clamouring for. That's all the fuss is about, it's a big deal for those that don't normally get that, being able to see someone like you as a main character rather than ostensibly not existing as far as wider culture goes. That apparently qualifies as 'far left' to you and it's baffling. No one wants 'Suppress the white man! Castrations on reality TV!' They just want to exist.
Also your definition of 'man hater' is dumb.

I have a problem with censorship. I have a problem with women being banned for the truth.

Issue tends to be what you consider 'truth'