Jetstreams and flight times

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Jetstreams and flight times
« on: August 14, 2019, 09:36:49 AM »
I was wondering how Flat Earth would explain the following:

In my life, I've flown to New York (from Amsterdam) twice. And also, I flew back obviously. Flying to New York took about 8 hours. Flying back to Amsterdam was about 2 hours less. I've been fully awake during all those flights, as I am a terrible sleeper when it comes to air travel.

The flat earth is inconsistent with those quite extreme changes in flight times.

A round earth however, does explain it. There are winds, at cruising altitudes of airplanes, called jet streams. On the route from New York to Amsterdam, those jet streams move from west to east. And thus, the plane flies faster. You can check the forecast of jetstreams by looking here and that shows them going east: https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2019/08/14/0600Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-6.72,57.59,712

By the way, jetstreams also move east on the southern hemisphere. This is due to the earth's rotation.
I tried so hard, and got so far. But in the end, I fell off the edge. I had to fall, to lose it all, but in the end, I still fell of the edge.

Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2019, 10:41:02 AM »
The answer is obvious. You're a lying NASA schill ;)

Or the earth is round.

I wonder if a rotating flat earth would have some kind of jetstream? It would certainly have cyclones that rotate the same direction no matter which side of the equator they are on.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2019, 08:51:26 PM »
The answer is obvious. You're a lying NASA schill ;)

Or the earth is round.

I wonder if a rotating flat earth would have some kind of jetstream? It would certainly have cyclones that rotate the same direction no matter which side of the equator they are on.

If the earth was flat and rotating, everyone would be thrown off of it as a result of the spin.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2019, 01:23:44 AM »
The answer is obvious. You're a lying NASA schill ;)

Or the earth is round.

I wonder if a rotating flat earth would have some kind of jetstream? It would certainly have cyclones that rotate the same direction no matter which side of the equator they are on.

If the earth was flat and rotating, everyone would be thrown off of it as a result of the spin.

Well... don't rotate it so fast then!  ;)
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

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wise

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2019, 11:14:26 PM »
I was wondering how Flat Earth would explain the following:

In my life, I've flown to New York (from Amsterdam) twice. And also, I flew back obviously. Flying to New York took about 8 hours. Flying back to Amsterdam was about 2 hours less. I've been fully awake during all those flights, as I am a terrible sleeper when it comes to air travel.

The flat earth is inconsistent with those quite extreme changes in flight times.

A round earth however, does explain it. There are winds, at cruising altitudes of airplanes, called jet streams. On the route from New York to Amsterdam, those jet streams move from west to east. And thus, the plane flies faster. You can check the forecast of jetstreams by looking here and that shows them going east: https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2019/08/14/0600Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-6.72,57.59,712

By the way, jetstreams also move east on the southern hemisphere. This is due to the earth's rotation.

these winds do not affect the distance of any cannonball. we never feel these winds. it was only invented by globalists to explain the difference between east-west and west-east travel times. If I tell my opinion about the real reason for this, globalists will adapt it to their own models. just like the yo-yo spin lie they invented about the sudden stopping of rockets allegedly launched into space. maybe you'd better not know the real reason.
boydster the angry globalist being a mod is my red line. During he continues to be mod, others will be ignored till infinity.






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Stash

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2019, 11:44:28 PM »
I was wondering how Flat Earth would explain the following:

In my life, I've flown to New York (from Amsterdam) twice. And also, I flew back obviously. Flying to New York took about 8 hours. Flying back to Amsterdam was about 2 hours less. I've been fully awake during all those flights, as I am a terrible sleeper when it comes to air travel.

The flat earth is inconsistent with those quite extreme changes in flight times.

A round earth however, does explain it. There are winds, at cruising altitudes of airplanes, called jet streams. On the route from New York to Amsterdam, those jet streams move from west to east. And thus, the plane flies faster. You can check the forecast of jetstreams by looking here and that shows them going east: https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2019/08/14/0600Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-6.72,57.59,712

By the way, jetstreams also move east on the southern hemisphere. This is due to the earth's rotation.

these winds do not affect the distance of any cannonball. we never feel these winds. it was only invented by globalists to explain the difference between east-west and west-east travel times. If I tell my opinion about the real reason for this, globalists will adapt it to their own models. just like the yo-yo spin lie they invented about the sudden stopping of rockets allegedly launched into space. maybe you'd better not know the real reason.

Jetstreams don't affect cannonballs and we don't feel them because they are above us by about 8-10 km's. They are measurable and existed long before east-west and west-east travel times at that altitude existed.

Yo-Yo de-spin isn't a lie invented about the sudden 'stopping' of a rocket. It was invented to stop the spin of a rocket. Even the FE guy, GeoShifter, who originally posted the "Rocket hitting the dome" video came back with a follow-up video correcting himself saying that it didn't hit the dome. Watch the last 10 seconds of the video if you don't want to sit through it. He says, "So it didn't hit the dome, I hope that explains it for everyone."


Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2019, 11:59:39 PM »
I was wondering how Flat Earth would explain the following:

In my life, I've flown to New York (from Amsterdam) twice. And also, I flew back obviously. Flying to New York took about 8 hours. Flying back to Amsterdam was about 2 hours less. I've been fully awake during all those flights, as I am a terrible sleeper when it comes to air travel.

The flat earth is inconsistent with those quite extreme changes in flight times.

A round earth however, does explain it. There are winds, at cruising altitudes of airplanes, called jet streams. On the route from New York to Amsterdam, those jet streams move from west to east. And thus, the plane flies faster. You can check the forecast of jetstreams by looking here and that shows them going east: https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2019/08/14/0600Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-6.72,57.59,712

By the way, jetstreams also move east on the southern hemisphere. This is due to the earth's rotation.

these winds do not affect the distance of any cannonball. we never feel these winds. it was only invented by globalists to explain the difference between east-west and west-east travel times. If I tell my opinion about the real reason for this, globalists will adapt it to their own models. just like the yo-yo spin lie they invented about the sudden stopping of rockets allegedly launched into space. maybe you'd better not know the real reason.

We're not talking about the despin of rockets here. There's another topic for that one already.

And stash is right. These winds don't occur at ground level. The occur at high altitudes and planes do definitely feel them.
I tried so hard, and got so far. But in the end, I fell off the edge. I had to fall, to lose it all, but in the end, I still fell of the edge.

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wise

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2019, 12:41:18 PM »
And stash is right. These winds don't occur at ground level. The occur at high altitudes and planes do definitely feel them.
Nope. He is not right. Since you are supporting him hence you are wrong too. Number of wrong can not change a wrong to a right. for the wind to affect the speed of an airplane so much, we need to observe it practically. For example, does the maximum speed increase by 20% when driving a vehicle with the wind behind you? Does it magically decrease speed by 20% when used against wind? No. something like that never happens. it only causes the vehicle to shake. The effect on speed maybe 1% or 1 per thousand. You don't feel it really. however, this must be put forward by the calculations. for example, "-V = multiplying air flow velocity x mass of air / mass of airplane x k". Is there such a definition? never. this is a nonsence. supporting each other does not magically make this nonsense a reality.
boydster the angry globalist being a mod is my red line. During he continues to be mod, others will be ignored till infinity.






Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 02:22:37 PM »
for the wind to affect the speed of an airplane so much, we need to observe it practically.
You mean by like, determining the wind and then seeing if it affects a plane?

For example, does the maximum speed increase by 20% when driving a vehicle
A car operates in a fundamentally different way to a plane.
Cars drive along the road. They control their speed by the speed of rotation of the tires.
People also moderate their speed when driving.
Planes fly in the air. They control their speed by moving air from in front of to behind it. They have a maximum efficiency based upon their airspeed.

If you want a practical example, try it with a toy plane or copter, one which doesn't use GPS or FLOW to maintain position.
For example, a cheap toy quadcopter.
If you get one, you will notice that in strong wind, even if you try to go against the wind at full speed, it will still end up going backwards, with the wind. Then if you try and have it go with the wind, it will go much faster. And if you just have it hover, then it will move with the wind, slowly drifting.

If you use one with GPS to maintain its position, then something else happens. The simplest example is telling it to hover. Instead of hovering and getting pushed with the wind, it tilts into the wind to try to move forwards, with the wind then pushing it backwards, resulting in it remaining in place. The stronger the wind, the greater the tilt.

So it is easily observed practically.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 02:59:41 PM by JackBlack »

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frenat

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2019, 02:40:09 PM »
And stash is right. These winds don't occur at ground level. The occur at high altitudes and planes do definitely feel them.
Nope. He is not right. Since you are supporting him hence you are wrong too. Number of wrong can not change a wrong to a right. for the wind to affect the speed of an airplane so much, we need to observe it practically. For example, does the maximum speed increase by 20% when driving a vehicle with the wind behind you? Does it magically decrease speed by 20% when used against wind? No. something like that never happens. it only causes the vehicle to shake. The effect on speed maybe 1% or 1 per thousand. You don't feel it really. however, this must be put forward by the calculations. for example, "-V = multiplying air flow velocity x mass of air / mass of airplane x k". Is there such a definition? never. this is a nonsence. supporting each other does not magically make this nonsense a reality.

A vehicle on the ground has to deal with friction on the ground but the engine does have to work harder when driving into the wind.

Airplanes are directly affected by the wind whether you agree or not. ANY pilot will tell you they've experienced it.

Thanks for the humor!

Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2019, 02:44:23 PM »
Planes fly in the air. They control their speed by pushing air behind them.
I can't believe you said that.

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Stash

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2019, 02:50:38 PM »
And stash is right. These winds don't occur at ground level. The occur at high altitudes and planes do definitely feel them.
Nope. He is not right. Since you are supporting him hence you are wrong too. Number of wrong can not change a wrong to a right. for the wind to affect the speed of an airplane so much, we need to observe it practically. For example, does the maximum speed increase by 20% when driving a vehicle with the wind behind you? Does it magically decrease speed by 20% when used against wind? No. something like that never happens. it only causes the vehicle to shake. The effect on speed maybe 1% or 1 per thousand. You don't feel it really. however, this must be put forward by the calculations. for example, "-V = multiplying air flow velocity x mass of air / mass of airplane x k". Is there such a definition? never. this is a nonsence. supporting each other does not magically make this nonsense a reality.

Yep, I am right. Jetsreams range from around 80 mph up to and sometimes exceeding 250 mph. If I had a 150 mph tailwind behind my car and put it in neutral, let's say coasting at 50 mph, you bet my speed would increase...a lot. And that's a car, not a plane which is designed for lifting and soaring because of wind.

Wind is powerful:


Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 06:32:55 AM »
And stash is right. These winds don't occur at ground level. The occur at high altitudes and planes do definitely feel them.
for the wind to affect the speed of an airplane so much, we need to observe it practically. For example, does the maximum speed increase by 20% when driving a vehicle with the wind behind you? Does it magically decrease speed by 20% when used against wind? No. something like that never happens. it only causes the vehicle to shake. The effect on speed maybe 1% or 1 per thousand.

Go and throw a paper aeroplane into the wind.
The Universal Accelerator is a constant farce.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

From the FAQ - "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence."

Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2019, 01:45:54 AM »
I used to fly many times in the last years with our corporate Beechcraft B200GT King Air, often in a cocpit (as a passenger) on about 1000km distance.
It's a turboprop engine (so not as powerful as turbojet), but still cruising at heights like FL350 (if i remember correctly, i should haave some videos somwhere).
So, just because of wind, the travel could take from 1,5h to 2,5h-3h. On-board computer estimates the travel time in the real time according to current winds, and you can even see how much flying against a wind would extend the fly, it's very cool. So it has a huge impact on travel time. The pilots are also trained and they use to try to use jet streams for their advantage, like trying to take a routabout way just to catch a wind and fly faster. But that just complicates things and makes distance calculations based on flights even more unpredictable and unrealistic. Turbojet airplanes speed can be affected by jet streams up to 30% (world records). These are facts, not my opinions.

Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2019, 06:15:54 AM »
I used to fly many times in the last years with our corporate Beechcraft B200GT King Air, often in a cocpit (as a passenger) on about 1000km distance.
It's a turboprop engine (so not as powerful as turbojet), but still cruising at heights like FL350 (if i remember correctly, i should haave some videos somwhere).
So, just because of wind, the travel could take from 1,5h to 2,5h-3h. On-board computer estimates the travel time in the real time according to current winds, and you can even see how much flying against a wind would extend the fly, it's very cool. So it has a huge impact on travel time. The pilots are also trained and they use to try to use jet streams for their advantage, like trying to take a routabout way just to catch a wind and fly faster. But that just complicates things and makes distance calculations based on flights even more unpredictable and unrealistic. Turbojet airplanes speed can be affected by jet streams up to 30% (world records). These are facts, not my opinions.

You won't get a sensible reply ... 'Wise' is anything but his name ...

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wise

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2019, 06:50:48 AM »
Planes fly in the air. They control their speed by pushing air behind them.
I can't believe you said that.
"They control their speed by moving air from in front of to behind it" means they swim in the air, not fly. Airship is more true.
boydster the angry globalist being a mod is my red line. During he continues to be mod, others will be ignored till infinity.






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wise

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Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2019, 06:55:29 AM »
I used to fly many times in the last years with our corporate Beechcraft B200GT King Air, often in a cocpit (as a passenger) on about 1000km distance.
It's a turboprop engine (so not as powerful as turbojet), but still cruising at heights like FL350 (if i remember correctly, i should haave some videos somwhere).
So, just because of wind, the travel could take from 1,5h to 2,5h-3h. On-board computer estimates the travel time in the real time according to current winds, and you can even see how much flying against a wind would extend the fly, it's very cool. So it has a huge impact on travel time. The pilots are also trained and they use to try to use jet streams for their advantage, like trying to take a routabout way just to catch a wind and fly faster. But that just complicates things and makes distance calculations based on flights even more unpredictable and unrealistic. Turbojet airplanes speed can be affected by jet streams up to 30% (world records). These are facts, not my opinions.

Is there a theoretical calculation of this, according to what you say? for example, what is the force at which a wind blowing at 200km applies to a mass? Have you ever calculated it?

[because there are too many citations, but I respond to some. you understand that. That's all for this group of members]
boydster the angry globalist being a mod is my red line. During he continues to be mod, others will be ignored till infinity.






Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2019, 07:54:12 AM »
I used to fly many times in the last years with our corporate Beechcraft B200GT King Air, often in a cocpit (as a passenger) on about 1000km distance.
It's a turboprop engine (so not as powerful as turbojet), but still cruising at heights like FL350 (if i remember correctly, i should haave some videos somwhere).
So, just because of wind, the travel could take from 1,5h to 2,5h-3h. On-board computer estimates the travel time in the real time according to current winds, and you can even see how much flying against a wind would extend the fly, it's very cool. So it has a huge impact on travel time. The pilots are also trained and they use to try to use jet streams for their advantage, like trying to take a routabout way just to catch a wind and fly faster. But that just complicates things and makes distance calculations based on flights even more unpredictable and unrealistic. Turbojet airplanes speed can be affected by jet streams up to 30% (world records). These are facts, not my opinions.

Is there a theoretical calculation of this, according to what you say? for example, what is the force at which a wind blowing at 200km applies to a mass? Have you ever calculated it?

[because there are too many citations, but I respond to some. you understand that. That's all for this group of members]

I am not the pilot, so ill just quote from https://www.quora.com/How-much-faster-slower-can-an-airplane-fly-due-to-the-jet-streams-around-the-World
Quote
Velocity of an Airplane is all relative…..speed relative to the air, relative to the ground. Jet streams are rapidly moving masses (streams) of air. an aircraft flying downstream in the core of the jet streamcan experience a ground speed bonus nearly equal to the speed of the jet stream if normal cruise power is maintained. Or, a pilot can throttle back, saving fuel and maintain normal speed across the ground, riding the bonus tailwind. Jet streams can normally contain air velocities well over 100 knots. Turn directly into the Jet stream and the effects are just as dramatic but negatively. At the same weight, atmosphere and power settings, speed will remain constant. Only the wind will change the velocity relative to the ground.

Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2019, 02:15:35 PM »
"They control their speed by moving air from in front of to behind it" means they swim in the air, not fly. Airship is more true.
I notice you completely ignore the point.

The point was the vastly different mechanism involved for cars driving along a road and planes flying through the air.
This different mechanism makes your comparison invalid.
If you want to claim that wind will not affect the speed of a plane you cannot use a car to do so.
Again, toy quad-copters show quite well that wind can and does effect the speed of flying objects, and can even be so great that when trying to fly forwards at full speed, they actually end up going backwards.

Re: Jetstreams and flight times
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2019, 12:08:36 PM »
And stash is right. These winds don't occur at ground level. The occur at high altitudes and planes do definitely feel them.
Nope. He is not right. Since you are supporting him hence you are wrong too. Number of wrong can not change a wrong to a right. for the wind to affect the speed of an airplane so much, we need to observe it practically. For example, does the maximum speed increase by 20% when driving a vehicle with the wind behind you? Does it magically decrease speed by 20% when used against wind? No. something like that never happens. it only causes the vehicle to shake. The effect on speed maybe 1% or 1 per thousand. You don't feel it really. however, this must be put forward by the calculations. for example, "-V = multiplying air flow velocity x mass of air / mass of airplane x k". Is there such a definition? never. this is a nonsence. supporting each other does not magically make this nonsense a reality.

“wise”, I hope you realize that you have no idea what you are talking about. Unfortunately, many flat earthers hold their beliefs based in the  lack of knowledge of how the world and things  work. Do you know why airplanes fly? Do you know what jetstreams are and why they exist? Did you know that airplanes speed is based relative to the airmass through airplanes fly?

A proper analogy would be when you swim in a river against the current. If you make de same physical effort you will flow faster if you swim in the same direction the river is flowing that if you swim the other way around.

And, as and additional fact, wind does affect cars. If you drive a car upwind in a highway you will burn more fuel that if you drive downwind since wind creates drag and the car needs more power to overcome this drag.