When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1200 on: August 28, 2019, 08:02:01 AM »

The only reason not to see Crux from South America and Australia simultaneously would be the daylight.

They are 180 degrees of longitude apart and when at one is night at the other is day.

You forget about winter down south. On a Globe and about the same time, one should see see it before twilight and the other, after twilight. But they have to wait 12 hours because Earth is a Plane.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 09:05:36 AM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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kopfverderber

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1201 on: August 28, 2019, 08:24:34 AM »

The only reason not to see Crux from South America and Australia simultaneously would be the daylight.

They are 180 degrees of longitude apart and when at one is night at the other is day.

You forget about winter in the north. On a Globe and about the same time, one should see see it before twilight and the other, after twilight. But they have to wait 12 hours because Earth is a Plane.

What star charts are you using? As far as I know for some days in the month of june three observers placed in australia, south africa and south america facing south will all see the southern cross at the same time provided clear sky and night in the three places.

This had been already discussed in this forum and no FE seems to be able to explain it.
You must gather your party before venturing forth

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1202 on: August 28, 2019, 08:46:43 AM »

The only reason not to see Crux from South America and Australia simultaneously would be the daylight.

They are 180 degrees of longitude apart and when at one is night at the other is day.

You forget about winter in the north. On a Globe and about the same time, one should see see it before twilight and the other, after twilight. But they have to wait 12 hours because Earth is a Plane.

What star charts are you using? As far as I know for some days in the month of june three observers placed in australia, south africa and south america facing south will all see the southern cross at the same time provided clear sky and night in the three places.

This had been already discussed in this forum and no FE seems to be able to explain it.

As far as you know??  Ok, how far is that?

And your argument is also with Macarios. So give him a reply because he disagrees with you.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 08:48:26 AM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1203 on: August 28, 2019, 09:02:18 AM »
And you, plata, could reply to:

1.
What direction is gravity?

2.
Why can hills exist on a flat earth?

3.
What is the perimeter distance of antartica?

4.
Why cant we as a speciies accumulate knowledge? - yet you ask for one person, without the input of others, to undiscover what we already know - now this is another stupid request.

5.
Why are you insistent on measuring curvature of earth over land, when it is uneven with mountains and valleys and when water is easier - your first stupidass request.

6.
Why cant you or anyone take photos on multiple days to rule out weather effects of mirages to show ships and lighthouses dip bottom first?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1204 on: August 28, 2019, 09:30:42 AM »
And you, plata, could reply to:

1.
What direction is gravity?

2.
Why can hills exist on a flat earth?

3.
What is the perimeter distance of antartica?

4.
Why cant we as a speciies accumulate knowledge? - yet you ask for one person, without the input of others, to undiscover what we already know - now this is another stupid request.

5.
Why are you insistent on measuring curvature of earth over land, when it is uneven with mountains and valleys and when water is easier - your first stupidass request.

6.
Why cant you or anyone take photos on multiple days to rule out weather effects of mirages to show ships and lighthouses dip bottom first?

1. There is no force pulling to center of Earth.
2. Rolling hills exist because there is no force pulling to center of Earth to shape hills into a sphere.
3. I have not researched this in detail.
4. Depends if you acquire it from something that's intellectually formed. There is nothing intellectual about a Big Bang theory. Just monkeys.
5. Length, width of any landmass like Florida, Texas is all that's needed to determine and verify if there is an alleged curvature bulge over center in conjunction with a 3959 mile radius.
6. Time-laps photos are better and prove the Globe Community wrong. We canít help they rationalize, ignore and even deny it because it doesn't fit in with the core belief  and because they suffer from cognitive dissonance.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1205 on: August 28, 2019, 09:34:59 AM »

The only reason not to see Crux from South America and Australia simultaneously would be the daylight.

They are 180 degrees of longitude apart and when at one is night at the other is day.

You forget about winter down south. On a Globe and about the same time, one should see see it before twilight and the other, after twilight. But they have to wait 12 hours because Earth is a Plane.

No, they donít.

The southern pole star Sigma Octantis, is always near enough due south (a little more than a degree off) for anyone watching the night sky in the Southern Hemisphere regardless of the time.  Whether they can see it due to sunlight or not. 

If your flat earth diagram, was correct, people would see Sigma Octantis come from the East, sweep past South and disappear in the West. 

THEY DO NOT.

They see the whole star field rotating around the southern celestial pole, just as people do for the northern celestial pole, except in the opposite direction.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1206 on: August 28, 2019, 09:47:43 AM »

The only reason not to see Crux from South America and Australia simultaneously would be the daylight.

They are 180 degrees of longitude apart and when at one is night at the other is day.

You forget about winter down south. On a Globe and about the same time, one should see see it before twilight and the other, after twilight. But they have to wait 12 hours because Earth is a Plane.

No, they donít.

The southern pole star Sigma Octantis, is always near enough due south (a little more than a degree off) for anyone watching the night sky in the Southern Hemisphere regardless of the time.  Whether they can see it due to sunlight or not. 

If your flat earth diagram, was correct, people would see Sigma Octantis come from the East, sweep past South and disappear in the West. 

THEY DO NOT.

They see the whole star field rotating around the southern celestial pole, just as people do for the northern celestial pole, except in the opposite direction.

The Flat Earth diagram is correct. I can't help that it doesn't fit your Globe.

The issue is about the Southern Cross. Pay atention.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1207 on: August 28, 2019, 09:48:52 AM »
And you, plata, could reply to:

1.
What direction is gravity?

2.
Why can hills exist on a flat earth?

3.
What is the perimeter distance of antartica?

4.
Why cant we as a speciies accumulate knowledge? - yet you ask for one person, without the input of others, to undiscover what we already know - now this is another stupid request.

5.
Why are you insistent on measuring curvature of earth over land, when it is uneven with mountains and valleys and when water is easier - your first stupidass request.

6.
Why cant you or anyone take photos on multiple days to rule out weather effects of mirages to show ships and lighthouses dip bottom first?

1. There is no force pulling to center of Earth.
2. Rolling hills exist because there is no force pulling to center of Earth to shape hills into a sphere.
3. I have not researched this in detail.
4. Depends if you acquire it from something that's intellectually formed. There is nothing intellectual about a Big Bang theory. Just monkeys.
5. Length, width of any landmass like Florida, Texas is all that's needed to determine and verify if there is an alleged curvature bulge over center in conjunction with a 3959 mile radius.
6. Time-laps photos are better and prove the Globe Community wrong. We canít help they rationalize, ignore and even deny it because it doesn't fit in with the core belief  and because they suffer from cognitive dissonance.

Thanks for responding.
Maybe i should have prefaced it with - according to "RE".  We understand very well what youre trying to say, but youre either deliberately or unknownly misrepresenting RE.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1208 on: August 28, 2019, 09:57:37 AM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image.


« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 10:06:32 AM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1209 on: August 28, 2019, 10:03:49 AM »

The Flat Earth diagram is correct. I can't help that it doesn't fit your Globe.

Except your diagram doesnít match what people actually see.  What they see does match the globe/heliocentric model.

This is supposed to be flat earthersí whole deal- for people to use their senses.  So why make up stuff that no one sees?

Quote
The issue is about the Southern Cross. Pay atention.

The southern cross, along with all other stars visible in the Southern Hemisphere, rotates around the southern celestial pole.  It does not move the way your diagram says it should.

Deal with it.


Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1210 on: August 28, 2019, 10:04:24 AM »
If the earth is round ball - gravity acts down (not towards the south pole).

Regardless of earths shape, hills are made of dirt and they clearly exist.
Why would they not exist if the earth was a ball?
Gravity on a RE has been equated to a predictable fall on a FE.
so the magnitude of down is the same.
It is easily measurable and verifiable.
So why should hills not exist?

Others have sailed it.
Are they untrustworthy?
Your ice wall would be the perim of the entrie know world, vs a relatively small "island".

Yes you keep mentioning florida.
Why though is the question, when water is MORE GENERALLY FLAT than the mainland?

Time lapse or video is required AS WELL as taking a sample with different weather conditions.
If you claim mirages and lensing and such, then weather is a varying factor amd needs to be isolated - like how good science is done.

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Crutchwater

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1211 on: August 28, 2019, 10:05:34 AM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image of the surface of this Earth.



Why not?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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markjo

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1212 on: August 28, 2019, 10:11:54 AM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image.


Why not?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1213 on: August 28, 2019, 10:12:48 AM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image.



Are you saying Mirrors dont exist now?



If your issue is that the photo shows it is too similar, well probably because the photgrapher was righ "near" the water.
Note when teachers face is close up to the mirror, he gets the "right" reflection.
Is rhat what youre on about?
Keep failing.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1214 on: August 28, 2019, 10:16:34 AM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image of the surface of this Earth.



Why not?

The surface of a curved mirror will produce a curved image.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1215 on: August 28, 2019, 10:24:24 AM »

The Flat Earth diagram is correct. I can't help that it doesn't fit your Globe.

Except your diagram doesnít match what people actually see.  What they see does match the globe/heliocentric model.

This is supposed to be flat earthersí whole deal- for people to use their senses.  So why make up stuff that no one sees?

Quote
The issue is about the Southern Cross. Pay atention.

The southern cross, along with all other stars visible in the Southern Hemisphere, rotates around the southern celestial pole.  It does not move the way your diagram says it should.

Deal with it.

You have not proved what they see.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Crutchwater

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1216 on: August 28, 2019, 11:04:48 AM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image of the surface of this Earth.



Why not?

The surface of a curved mirror will produce a curved image.

Sure, but being that close to a VERY large curved mirror, with that field of view will show a miniscule amount of distortion.

Next?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Stash

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1217 on: August 28, 2019, 11:06:46 AM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image of the surface of this Earth.



Why not?

The surface of a curved mirror will produce a curved image.

How much curve would you expect to see in this image if the earth were a globe? Did you calculate it?

Next.

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1218 on: August 28, 2019, 11:24:03 AM »

The Flat Earth diagram is correct. I can't help that it doesn't fit your Globe.

Except your diagram doesnít match what people actually see.  What they see does match the globe/heliocentric model.

This is supposed to be flat earthersí whole deal- for people to use their senses.  So why make up stuff that no one sees?

Quote
The issue is about the Southern Cross. Pay atention.

The southern cross, along with all other stars visible in the Southern Hemisphere, rotates around the southern celestial pole.  It does not move the way your diagram says it should.

Deal with it.

You have not proved what they see.

I shouldnít need to.  You are the one proposing things work differently from all the star maps that millions of professional and amateur astronomers use to find stars.

But hereís a bit on how to find the south celestial pole from the southern cross.

https://earthsky.org/favorite-star-patterns/how-to-use-southern-cross-to-find-south-celestial-pole

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rabinoz

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1219 on: August 28, 2019, 01:08:05 PM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image.

Why not? Until you prove that the reflection is EXACTLY the same as the original you've no case!
A 5 miles by 5 miles piece of the surface a of a perfectly smooth sphere the size of the earth deviates from being perfectly flat by only Ī25 inches or Ī1 part in over 12,000!

That image is only 1206 pixels wide. So at the most any deviation from the surface being perfectly flat is a few tenths of a pixel!
If you come back with details of how high the camera was, field of view and the distance to those mountains maybe it could be worked more accurately.

Do some sums before making claims like this!

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1220 on: August 28, 2019, 01:53:09 PM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image of the surface of this Earth.



Why not?

The surface of a curved mirror will produce a curved image.

And completely missed my post with the video showing you wrong.

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1221 on: August 28, 2019, 01:54:42 PM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image.



Are you saying Mirrors dont exist now?



If your issue is that the photo shows it is too similar, well probably because the photgrapher was righ "near" the water.
Note when teachers face is close up to the mirror, he gets the "right" reflection.
Is rhat what youre on about?
Keep failing.

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JackBlack

  • 22532
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1222 on: August 28, 2019, 02:19:59 PM »
On a Globe and about the same time, one should see see it before twilight and the other, after twilight. But they have to wait 12 hours because Earth is a Plane.
No, on a globe, due to the daylight, you don't see it during the day.

They can observe the apparent rotation about the south celestial pole to see that it isn't just rotating into position above a disk.
Why does the south celestial pole remain due south?

2. Rolling hills exist because there is no force pulling to center of Earth to shape hills into a sphere.
There is no magical force pulling anything into any particular shape.
For a RE, gravity pulls down towards the centre. That will not magically make things into a perfect sphere. Instead it will result in very large objects breaking due to the pressure at the base pushing outwards, or less solid objects rolling down a hill due to the normal force.

The same applies to a flat Earth, as pointed out and ignored by you repeatedly.
If gravity pulling towards the centre of Earth made hills impossible for a RE, whatever magic you use to replace gravity to explain why things fall would make hills impossible for a FE.

There is nothing intellectual about a Big Bang theory.
You not liking something doesn't mean there is nothing intellectual about it.
Regardless, this is meant to be about the shape of Earth. There is nothing intellectual about a flat earth. All the evidence indicates Earth is round.

6. Time-laps photos are better and prove the Globe Community wrong. We canít help they rationalize, ignore and even deny it because it doesn't fit in with the core belief  and because they suffer from cognitive dissonance.
And there you go projecting again.
You are yet to provide anything which even comes close to proving the globe community wrong.

The Flat Earth diagram is correct. I can't help that it doesn't fit your Globe.
No, it is completely wrong and does not match reality at all.
It fails to explain why there is a south celestial pole.
It has a tiny region of light being cast by the sun, rather than having the sun illuminate roughly half of Earth at once.
It has the shape of Australia and Antarctica completely wrong.
It has the distance between the southern continents wrong.
And so on.

Meanwhile, the globe matches quite well.
We can't help that your flat ideas don't match reality.

The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image.
And yet  another baseless claim.
Why can't it?
Stop just asserting garbage and start backing it up.

Do you also think this mirror can't exist:


Round surfaces can produce mirror images just fine.
The only issue would be distortion due to the mirror not being flat. But over such a tiny area of Earth, the difference in angle is so small that distortion will not be noticeable.
As a comparison, it would be like looking at this portion:

which should still produce far more distortion than that expected for Earth in your photo.

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kopfverderber

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1223 on: August 28, 2019, 02:47:15 PM »

The only reason not to see Crux from South America and Australia simultaneously would be the daylight.

They are 180 degrees of longitude apart and when at one is night at the other is day.

You forget about winter in the north. On a Globe and about the same time, one should see see it before twilight and the other, after twilight. But they have to wait 12 hours because Earth is a Plane.

What star charts are you using? As far as I know for some days in the month of june three observers placed in australia, south africa and south america facing south will all see the southern cross at the same time provided clear sky and night in the three places.

This had been already discussed in this forum and no FE seems to be able to explain it.

As far as you know??  Ok, how far is that?

And your argument is also with Macarios. So give him a reply because he disagrees with you.

You are the master of deflection, I don't see any contradiction with what Macarios said.

Some some days in June it's night time at the same time in east Australia and Chile. On those days you can see the southern cross from both places at the same time. That wouldn't be possible in your toy FE.

Crux is a circumpolar constellation south of 34įS,  it never sets below the horizon in those southern latitudes. Here's a video of the crux rotating around the celestial south pole seen from New Zealand, if you dont believe it go south and check for yourself:



And from the south pole:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 03:24:41 PM by kopfverderber »
You must gather your party before venturing forth

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1224 on: August 28, 2019, 03:53:58 PM »
Why would anyone (500 to 1,500 years ago) believe in and teach Earth is a Sphere after viewing this horizon (below) everywhere they went for most of their life? What was the life changing evedience?


« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 04:14:25 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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markjo

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1225 on: August 28, 2019, 03:58:49 PM »
The surface of a sphere cannot produce this mirror image of the surface of this Earth.



Why not?

The surface of a curved mirror will produce a curved image.
That image is about as curved as I would expect a round earth sized mirror to produce.  What were you expecting?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1226 on: August 28, 2019, 03:59:31 PM »
Maybe someone else would like to take a shot at the question.

Why would anyone (500 to 1,500 years ago) believe in and teach Earth is a Sphere after viewing this horizon (below) everywhere they went for most of their life and without someone elseís opinion about Earthís shape?

And is there a reason why no one here will give a simple direct and logical reply that pertains to the question?

Itís a very simply question. Answer it. What do you have to lose?



Because its a stupid question.
Youre asking someone to unknow what they know.
And if they were to say to self discover what they unknow to now know, you would predictively wave it off and say that it was already known.

See how awkward that last statement is?
Ask another stupid question like determining curvature across florida.

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Crutchwater

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1227 on: August 28, 2019, 04:06:13 PM »
Maybe someone else would like to take a shot at the question.

Why would anyone (500 to 1,500 years ago) believe in and teach Earth is a Sphere after viewing this horizon (below) everywhere they went for most of their life and without someone elseís opinion about Earthís shape?

And is there a reason why no one here will give a simple direct and logical reply that pertains to the question?

Itís a very simply question. Answer it. What do you have to lose?



I'll answer your question...

It's simple, because the horizon is not the only thing there is to look at.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1228 on: August 28, 2019, 04:12:56 PM »
Maybe someone else would like to take a shot at the question.

Why would anyone (500 to 1,500 years ago) believe in and teach Earth is a Sphere after viewing this horizon (below) everywhere they went for most of their life.

And is there a reason why no one here will give a simple direct and logical reply that pertains to the question?

Itís a very simply question. Answer it. What do you have to lose?



Because its a stupid question.
Youre asking someone to unknow what they know.
And if they were to say to self discover what they unknow to now know, you would predictively wave it off and say that it was already known.

See how awkward that last statement is?
Ask another stupid question like determining curvature across florida.

Alright I removed someone's opinion.

Why would anyone (500 to 1,500 years ago) believe in and teach Earth is a Sphere after viewing this horizon (below) everywhere they went for most of their life? What was the life changing evedience?

The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #1229 on: August 28, 2019, 04:16:48 PM »
Maybe someone else would like to take a shot at the question.

Why would anyone (500 to 1,500 years ago) believe in and teach Earth is a Sphere after viewing this horizon (below) everywhere they went for most of their life and without someone elseís opinion about Earthís shape?

And is there a reason why no one here will give a simple direct and logical reply that pertains to the question?

Itís a very simply question. Answer it. What do you have to lose?



I'll answer your question...

It's simple, because the horizon is not the only thing there is to look at.

But the horizon is horizontal. What was the hard evedience that made someone believe it's curved?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?