When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

The WGS-84 model is understood and accepted universally. If you disagree please post a link to details.

I don't care. 

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

Quote from: inquisitive on August 12, 2019, 09:11:10 AM

The WGS-84 model is understood and accepted universally. If you disagree please post a link to details.

I don't care. 

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

When the relevant conditions exist.  Do you understand what conditions are relevant?

Quote from: inquisitive on August 12, 2019, 09:11:10 AM

The WGS-84 model is understood and accepted universally. If you disagree please post a link to details.

I don't care. 

What happened to you being a seeker of truth?

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

It applies on every third Wednesday at 6-8:00 PM GMT, same schedule as Applebee's endless salad bar night. Is that a good enough answer for you? What are you even asking? And what does it have to do with where your sun goes?

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 04:07:34 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on August 12, 2019, 09:11:10 AM

The WGS-84 model is understood and accepted universally. If you disagree please post a link to details.

I don't care. 

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

When the relevant conditions exist.  Do you understand what conditions are relevant?

The conditions exist everyday over a body of evaporating water. And that's when people claim to see a boat going over a curve. Am I correct?

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

Who said that they do?
Now explain Venus being quite visible as it rises almost exactly where your magic fogbank is supposedly covering your sun.
Here it is again:

Venus Rising by Ian Griffin
Published on Feb 19, 2016
A compilation of two timelapses taken on the morning of 20th Feb 2016 showing Venus and Mercury rising over Hoopers Inlet on the Otago Peninsula. All images by Ian Griffin. Music is "The Bluest Star" by the 126ers, downloaded from the YouTube audio library.

You ask, "Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" And the answer is obviously "NEVER" unless you come up with some answers quick-smart.

I don't care. 

Why didn't you say this at the beginning of the thread?

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 01:44:05 PM

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

Who said that they do?
Now explain Venus being quite visible as it rises almost exactly where your magic fogbank is supposedly covering your sun.
Here it is again:

Quote from: Ian Griffin

Venus Rising by Ian Griffin
Published on Feb 19, 2016
A compilation of two timelapses taken on the morning of 20th Feb 2016 showing Venus and Mercury rising over Hoopers Inlet on the Otago Peninsula. All images by Ian Griffin. Music is "The Bluest Star" by the 126ers, downloaded from the YouTube audio library.

You ask, "Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" And the answer is obviously "NEVER" unless you come up with some answers quick-smart.

Venus is not at same altitude as the Sun. There is no fog bank it was just a thought illustration. You should know the difference. Your concern is the atmosphere bank that blocks the Suns light beyond the horizon. Venus is no issue. It's just a wondering star that passes into our circle of view. 

But they are defecting all around the world. Why do you think I am here?  I was defeated.

BTW that's a priceless answer. "Who said that they do?" That's an answer I would expect from someone who's ID.

Venus is not at same altitude as the Sun.

'Altitude'? Do you mean distance? Cool. So what are the distances between the Earth and the Sun and the Earth and Venus? It seems safe to assume that if you know they aren't the same distance, then you know what the distances are.

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 06:15:19 PM

Venus is not at same altitude as the Sun.

'Altitude'? Do you mean distance? Cool. So what are the distances between the Earth and the Sun and the Earth and Venus? It seems safe to assume that if you know they aren't the same distance, then you know what the distances are.

Is this a hard question?

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

Quote from: rabinoz on August 12, 2019, 05:58:32 PM

You ask, "Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" And the answer is obviously "NEVER" unless you come up with some answers quick-smart.

Venus is not at same altitude as the Sun. There is no fog bank it was just a thought illustration. You should know the difference.

You said "fog bank". But if it's not a "fog bank" exactly what is hiding the sun right where we see Venus rising just a little earlier?

Your concern is the atmosphere bank that blocks the Suns light beyond the horizon.

I've no concern about any "atmosphere bank that blocks the Suns light beyond the horizon". That's your problem.
I hope you realise that in many places there are other people living "beyond the horizon".
Why don't they see your magic "atmosphere bank that blocks the Suns light beyond the horizon"?

Venus is no issue. It's just a wondering wandering star that passes into our circle of view. 

Really? What do you know about the the planets Venus and Mercury that are sometimes closer to the sun than we are are  and sometimes further away.
Have a look Mercury transit incoming 11th Nov 2019, Started by kopfverderber . Mercury will pass between the earth and the sun.

Whether you like it or not the rising of the moon, planets and stars is simply more evidence against your flat earth with its "The sun, moon, and stars are all rotating around a central point over the North Pole."

But they are defecting all around the world.

Really? Who's defecting?

Defecting from the Globe or getting kicked out of flat earth groups like Bob Knodell was for supposedly proving the earth rotates etc.

And while Eric Dubay hasn't "defected" he has totally "lost his cool" and completely "spat the dummy" with his rants against many of the "top flat earthers".

It's been quite hilarious to watch!

Why do you think I am here?  I was defeated.

How would I know why you are here?
Since you've been you've done little more than post "smart aleck memes" that do no more than show your own ignorance of how the Globe works.

Lately you've tried to explain a few things about "your flat earth".
But none of those seem plausible to anyone that has observed how things really are.

BTW that's a priceless answer. "Who said that they do?" That's an answer I would expect from someone who's ID.

So answer the question "Who said that 'surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved' ?"

Quote from: markjo on August 12, 2019, 04:38:27 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 04:07:34 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on August 12, 2019, 09:11:10 AM

The WGS-84 model is understood and accepted universally. If you disagree please post a link to details.

I don't care. 

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

When the relevant conditions exist.  Do you understand what conditions are relevant?

The conditions exist everyday over a body of evaporating water. And that's when people claim to see a boat going over a curve. Am I correct?

That depends on the type of mirage.

Quote from: markjo on August 12, 2019, 07:20:25 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 04:59:55 PM

Quote from: markjo on August 12, 2019, 04:38:27 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 04:07:34 PM

Quote from: inquisitive on August 12, 2019, 09:11:10 AM

The WGS-84 model is understood and accepted universally. If you disagree please post a link to details.

I don't care. 

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

When the relevant conditions exist.  Do you understand what conditions are relevant?

The conditions exist everyday over a body of evaporating water. And that's when people claim to see a boat going over a curve. Am I correct?

That depends on the type of mirage.

A mirage that blocks the view of Boats, shorelines, landmass, and skylines. I am not sure what the name should be other than a simple surface mirage that reflects a mirror like image of the surface and blocks the view of things.

I made a meme about the issue and placed it here. https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=60834.msg2194730#msg2194730

What name would you give it?

I don't know because mirages don't block things.  Maybe you should read up on mirages and other atmospheric refractive phenomena before you try using them in an argument.

I don't care. 

When do surface mirages apply to boats thought to be going over an alleged curved?

When the relevant conditions exist.  Do you understand what conditions are relevant?
[/quote]

The conditions exist everyday over a body of evaporating water. And that's when people claim to see a boat going over a curve. Am I correct?

That depends on the type of mirage.

A mirage that blocks the view of Boats, shorelines, landmass, and skylines. I am not sure what the name should be other than a simple surface mirage that reflects a mirror like image of the surface and blocks the view of things.

I made a meme about the issue and placed it here.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=60834.msg2194735#msg2194735

What name would you give it?

You understand that "mirages" vary greatly based on water and air temperature, right?

Have you ever actually been at sea, outside view of land?

My guess is no.

Quote from: markjo on August 12, 2019, 04:38:27 PM

When the relevant conditions exist.  Do you understand what conditions are relevant?

The conditions exist everyday over a body of evaporating water. And that's when people claim to see a boat going over a curve. Am I correct?

Not quite!
It has little to do with "evaporating water". Humid air has a slightly lower refractive index than dry air but the difference is very slight.
For example:

• RH = 20% (as in desert): for green light at 20 °C Atmospheric Pressure of 101.3 kPa: Refractive index = 1.0002738
  
• RH = 40% (common): for green light at 20 °C Atmospheric Pressure of 101.3 kPa: Refractive index = 1.0002736
  
• RH = 80% (very high): for green light at 20 °C Atmospheric Pressure of 101.3 kPa: Refractive index = 1.0002733
  

Humidity has very little effect.

The important thing that causes refraction, looming and mirages are the temperature and pressure gradients near the water (or ice) surface.
Water (or ice) colder or warmer than the surface air can cause more or less refraction than normal.
If you do want to learn about refraction etc, here are some reference about atmospheric refraction:
One of the biggest problems claiming "proof" of anything using "curvature" (or lack thereof) is that refraction is very real!
There are numerous references to the various aspects of it from the "Rohan Institute" as in:
          Rohan Institute, Basic Principles for understanding atmospheric refraction phenomena
          Rohan Institute, Ducts
          Rohan Institute, An Introduction to Mirages

But the usual, or "standard", refraction does not "hide things" but it makes them visible over longer distances.
Hence if a ship appears hidden with standard refraction if would be more hidden if there were no refraction.

I made a meme about the issue and placed it here.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=60834.msg2194735#msg2194735

What name would you give it?

Photoshop.

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 07:48:51 PM

I made a meme about the issue and placed it here.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=60834.msg2194735#msg2194735

What name would you give it?

Photoshop.

They call it a Superior Mirage



Here is a detailed analysis of a boat going  over an alleged curve.  But it never really does. It just fades away.

Boats Over The Curve 100% DEBUNKED



Boats going over a curve is just another myth like curvature, Flat Earth has an edge, Santa Claus, Easter bunny, and so on. 

Here is a detailed analysis of a boat going  over an alleged curve.  But it never really does. It just fades away.

Boats Over The Curve 100% DEBUNKED

Sure  by Jeran Campanella of Jeranism proves the globe fame..; "That's interesting " fame! You've got to be joking!

FLAT EARTH - documentary Beyond the Curve fragment: Jeranism proves the globe..; "That's interesting" by The Plane Truth
All that video proves is that if small boats are far enough distant you can't see them!

It is totally irrelevant to this sort of thing!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
These two photos are from a video of two large cargo ships off the coast near Wollongong, NSW and taken from about 10 m above sea-level.
The nearer ship is 16.7 km from the camera, the farther ship's containers are is still very visible but most of the shIp is hidden behind "something".

And here we have a huge bulk ore carrier quite visible:

And a container vessel with the hull hidden behind something:

The maker of the video those screenshots came from wrote:

Quote from: MCtheEmcee1

MCtheEmcee1 Published on Mar 21, 2018
Cargo ship with the entire hull below the horizon. Only the containers are visible.
The background ship called CONTI LYON, and at SEVEN pm,  that ship was at [-34.44074, 151.18053].
The foreground ship - EPIC - was moored at [-34.3693, 151.0004].
The camera was at location is -34.347 150.921  at 10m ASL.
Collins Rock, in the suburb of Woonona NSW.

So the nearer ship, the EPIC, was 16.7 km from the camera and the farther ship, the container ship was 26.0 km from the camera.

Try again!

PS And steer clear of anything by Anthony Riley or any of the Quantum Eraser crew.
      Anthony Riley is so "smart" that he can't "calculate" the angles of a triangle of sides 1, 1, 1 - even with a triangle "app ".
      Nathan Oakley can't convert a distance in metres to a distance in kilometres - he multiplies by 1000 because metres are smaller .
       

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 09:07:08 PM

Here is a detailed analysis of a boat going  over an alleged curve.  But it never really does. It just fades away.

Boats Over The Curve 100% DEBUNKED

Sure  by Jeran Campanella of Jeranism proves the globe fame..; "That's interesting " fame! You've got to be joking!

FLAT EARTH - documentary Beyond the Curve fragment: Jeranism proves the globe..; "That's interesting" by The Plane Truth
All that video proves is that if small boats are far enough distant you can't see them!

It is totally irrelevant to this sort of thing!

Quote from: rabinoz on July 23, 2019, 05:50:06 AM

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
These two photos are from a video of two large cargo ships off the coast near Wollongong, NSW and taken from about 10 m above sea-level.
The nearer ship is 16.7 km from the camera, the farther ship's containers are is still very visible but most of the shIp is hidden behind "something".

And here we have a huge bulk ore carrier quite visible:

And a container vessel with the hull hidden behind something:

The maker of the video those screenshots came from wrote:

Quote from: MCtheEmcee1

MCtheEmcee1 Published on Mar 21, 2018
Cargo ship with the entire hull below the horizon. Only the containers are visible.
The background ship called CONTI LYON, and at SEVEN pm,  that ship was at [-34.44074, 151.18053].
The foreground ship - EPIC - was moored at [-34.3693, 151.0004].
The camera was at location is -34.347 150.921  at 10m ASL.
Collins Rock, in the suburb of Woonona NSW.

So the nearer ship, the EPIC, was 16.7 km from the camera and the farther ship, the container ship was 26.0 km from the camera.

Try again!

PS And steer clear of anything by Anthony Riley or any of the Quantum Eraser crew.
      Anthony Riley is so "smart" that he can't "calculate" the angles of a triangle of sides 1, 1, 1 - even with a triangle "app ".
      Nathan Oakley can't convert a distance in metres to a distance in kilometres - he multiplies by 1000 because metres are smaller .
     

We have had enough of your myths. Don't bother showing us more.

BTW, your camera man does not Zoom in and out to give us a perspective point of view, like here.

Wow, that's a nice flat non curved horizon. Thanks for sharing. I will have to add this to my collection.

This reminds me, since you never answered last time I asked...
Are you saying that when zooming in on a curved line, the curve of the line does not appear to lessen?

Another question you didn't answer:
Along a straight line of sight, things below that line of sight appear to rise to it as distance is increased, and things above it appear to lower to it as distance is increased.  Do you agree with that statement?

We have had enough of your myths. Don't bother showing us more.

BTW, your camera man does not Zoom in and out to give us a perspective point of view, like here.

Where's the water behind the buoy?

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 10:20:46 PM

We have had enough of your myths. Don't bother showing us more.

BTW, your camera man does not Zoom in and out to give us a perspective point of view, like here.

Where's the water behind the buoy?

Mirage is present at that distance. You wouldn't be able to see it . It was over the curve at your normal optics. You can't win. Stop the myths!

Plat tera, have another look at the jeranism video. He claims a lower portion of the boat in the later part of the video is reflection on the water. Go down to your local lake and have a look at how reflections work on water. If the boat were reflected in that water, and it is not, the reflection would clearly show the entire of the white sail to it's tip, not just the beginning. And before you exclaim it was a rough sea, if there were any reflection then the entire reflection would show bits of white on the water.

There is no reflection on that water. The boat is just over the curve, and the seagull is diving low over the water, not into it, obscured by the curve.

Plat tera, have another look at the jeranism video. He claims a lower portion of the boat in the later part of the video is reflection on the water. Go down to your local lake and have a look at how reflections work on water. If the boat were reflected in that water, and it is not, the reflection would clearly show the entire of the white sail to it's tip, not just the beginning. And before you exclaim it was a rough sea, if there were any reflection then the entire reflection would show bits of white on the water.

There is no reflection on that water. The boat is just over the curve, and the seagull is diving low over the water, not into it, obscured by the curve.

The boat never went below the horizon but began to dissipate and it was blocked by a mirage like below. It's a myth like curvature and Santa Claus and NASA lies. Science proves you wrong. Boats and landmass are blocked by a mirage. Accept defeat and over time you will be glad you did because these is a new world to explore and figure out.

Have  a good day!

Quote from: Stash on August 12, 2019, 11:00:52 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 10:20:46 PM

We have had enough of your myths. Don't bother showing us more.

BTW, your camera man does not Zoom in and out to give us a perspective point of view, like here.

Where's the water behind the buoy?

Mirage is present at that distance. You wouldn't be able to see it . It was over the curve at your normal optics. You can't win. Stop the myths!

How do you know a mirage is present at that distance?

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 11:08:44 PM

Quote from: Stash on August 12, 2019, 11:00:52 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 10:20:46 PM

We have had enough of your myths. Don't bother showing us more.

BTW, your camera man does not Zoom in and out to give us a perspective point of view, like here.

Where's the water behind the buoy?

Mirage is present at that distance. You wouldn't be able to see it . It was over the curve at your normal optics. You can't win. Stop the myths!

How do you know a mirage is present at that distance?

You have a right to believe anything you want. And I am not here change your mind and I don't care to and nor do I have time to explain science to you.

Quote from: Stash on August 12, 2019, 11:29:03 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 11:08:44 PM

Quote from: Stash on August 12, 2019, 11:00:52 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 10:20:46 PM

We have had enough of your myths. Don't bother showing us more.

BTW, your camera man does not Zoom in and out to give us a perspective point of view, like here.

Where's the water behind the buoy?

Mirage is present at that distance. You wouldn't be able to see it . It was over the curve at your normal optics. You can't win. Stop the myths!

How do you know a mirage is present at that distance?

You have a right to believe anything you want. And I am not here change your mind and I don't care to and nor do I have time to explain science to you.

Again, such a straight forward question. I was trying to be as benign as possible so you wouldn't run away and hide from even the slightest provocation of a challenge. And you still can't handle it.

Your entire 'thesis' is that every time a boat goes behind the horizon it's because of a superior mirage? That's every time, for every observation ever, everywhere on earth?

When asked, "How do you know a mirage is present at that distance?" you go into cower mode. Why can't you handle even the simplest question? What are you so afraid of? There's no time required to explain your science to me because there is no science to explain.

Simply, how do you know a mirage is present at that distance?

Plat tera, regarding your "In a plane world" meme, I respectfully disagree with your assessment the elevated landmass is blocked by a mirage.

Mirages occur over heated ground like in a dessert, where the air is cool, but the heated ground heats up a layer of air just above the ground. Light moving through the cool air into the heated air is refracted. Image 2 is late in the afternoon. While it is possible light may be being refracted over hot ground in the distant city, I doubt it. There are other factors worth considering first.

There is different lighting between the two images due to 10 hours difference in time of day. I suspect the direction of East is to the right of frame. This might explain why the bright yellow cliffs seen to the right in image 2 at 5.44pm is in shadow in image 1, at 7.48am, while the distant beach is clearly illuminated. At 5.44pm in image 2, the distant beach is in shadow and the cliffs brightly illuminated.

Secondly, it looks like low tide was in the morning, and high tide late afternoon. Thus in image 2, your shoreline line, should be much higher up, reducing the distant land mass seen.

In image 1, that light blue line of water crossing in front of both land masses, may depict the shoreline on both beaches, but contains a lot of distant water reflecting light blue sky.

It's unlikely the ship would be easily seen at the distant shoreline due to shadowing.

Quote from: rabinoz on August 12, 2019, 10:10:06 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on August 12, 2019, 09:07:08 PM

Here is a detailed analysis of a boat going  over an alleged curve.  But it never really does. It just fades away.

Boats Over The Curve 100% DEBUNKED

Sure  by Jeran Campanella of Jeranism proves the globe fame..; "That's interesting " fame! You've got to be joking!

FLAT EARTH - documentary Beyond the Curve fragment: Jeranism proves the globe..; "That's interesting" by The Plane Truth
All that video proves is that if small boats are far enough distant you can't see them!

It is totally irrelevant to this sort of thing!

Quote from: rabinoz on July 23, 2019, 05:50:06 AM

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
These two photos are from a video of two large cargo ships off the coast near Wollongong, NSW and taken from about 10 m above sea-level.
The nearer ship is 16.7 km from the camera, the farther ship's containers are is still very visible but most of the shIp is hidden behind "something".

And here we have a huge bulk ore carrier quite visible:

And a container vessel with the hull hidden behind something:

The maker of the video those screenshots came from wrote:

Quote from: MCtheEmcee1

MCtheEmcee1 Published on Mar 21, 2018
Cargo ship with the entire hull below the horizon. Only the containers are visible.
The background ship called CONTI LYON, and at SEVEN pm,  that ship was at [-34.44074, 151.18053].
The foreground ship - EPIC - was moored at [-34.3693, 151.0004].
The camera was at location is -34.347 150.921  at 10m ASL.
Collins Rock, in the suburb of Woonona NSW.

So the nearer ship, the EPIC, was 16.7 km from the camera and the farther ship, the container ship was 26.0 km from the camera.

Try again!

PS And steer clear of anything by Anthony Riley or any of the Quantum Eraser crew.
      Anthony Riley is so "smart" that he can't "calculate" the angles of a triangle of sides 1, 1, 1 - even with a triangle "app ".
      Nathan Oakley can't convert a distance in metres to a distance in kilometres - he multiplies by 1000 because metres are smaller .
     

We have had enough of your myths. Don't bother showing us more.

BTW, your camera man does not Zoom in and out to give us a perspective point of view, like here.

So what? Please explain what hides most of the more distant ship - if you can !

Flat earth proof - Nikon P900 - boat and buoy in far distant horizon (no drop) by Zooming in on stuff

If the  ocean in you video is flat would you care to explain in this screenshot:

• Why there is no water showing behind the buoy. If the ocean is flat there should be more water showing.
• Where the water is that the little power boat is floating in. It is behind the buoy, floating in water thst cannot be seen.

Please explain?

But if you want "zooming" here is zooming out and back in on something bigger than your little boat.
It's a lighthouse and videoed from 6 ft and 100 ft ahove sea-level:

Flat Earth - Zooming on Lighthouses and a ship - 6ft vs 100ft Elevation.

So what is hiding all the land around the base of the lighthouse and much of the lighthouse itself when viewed from 6 feet?


Flat Earth - Zooming on Lighthouses and a ship - 6ft vs 100ft Elevation

Any ideas?

Here is a detailed analysis of a boat going  over an alleged curve.  But it never really does. It just fades away.

Yes, wonderful argument "Earth is flat, so boats can't go over the curve".

There are plenty of far better examples, plenty of which have already been provided.

And again you run away from the sun.
Why does the sun appear to set?