When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #540 on: August 09, 2019, 08:29:15 AM »
So you have admitted defeat on where your Sun is? How it sets and rises everyday and determines time, which I assume you follow like the rest of us. And have moved back to your other meme, the Chicago skyline. You claim atmospheric effects on bendy light, shadows cast upward, yet refuse the atmospheric explanations, (which are well documented, your bendy light is not) when it comes to the Chicago skyline. Curious.

And the real question about the Chicago skyline is not "why do we see it", but "why don't we see all of it"?

And you still have the meme wrong, 1802' is not correct. You admitted that, now change it.

So, where is your Sun?

And while you're at it, did you contact the Florida surveyors board to get the geodetic information you were looking for I posted before? You know, the info about measuring curvature and such. Let me know what they have to say when you talk to them.

The 1802' is Correct. I corrected "1802 of curvature blocking the view." 

No, the real question about the Chicago skyline is "why do we see it at all"

You have to now change you Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city.

The fact that most of the City is seen, proves your 3959 mile radius is a hoax and proves Eratosthenes was wrong.

See, you have more problems now.
Nope! We do not have to "change the Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city" and you haven't proven "Eratosthenes was wrong".

You are still ignoring a few vital points. One important one being the height Joshua Nowicki was above the lake. This might help.
Quote
Flat earth debunk Wikia: Seeing Chicago across Lake Michigan[/color]]Flat earth debunk Wikia: Seeing Chicago across Lake Michigan
Oftentimes, when flat earthers are trying to show that the earth is, in fact flat, they present a specific picture of the Chicago Skyline taken across lake Michigan:



This picture, as shown in the description, was taken 200mm atop a dune in Grand Mere Lakes park, near Stevensville, Mi. The specific dune is not mentioned, but the likely place is shown here:



This location is 735 feet above sea level. Lake Michigan itself is actually 577 feet above lake level[1]. This means the elevation of the actual picture (including the height of the camera above the dune) was 159 feet.

Given the curvature calculation, and the fact that this spot is approximately 55 miles from Chicago, it is expected that only about 1043 feet of this skyline should be obscured by the horizon. This does not take into account atmospheric refraction, which may make more visible. In the picture below, the 4 buildings which, at their pinnacle height, are taller than this have been marked. Though other buildings appear to be visible, none are above the band which shows significant warping due to atmospheric refraction:



[1] Wright, John W., ed. (2006). The New York Times Almanac. Editors and reporters of The New York Times(2007 ed.). New York, New York: Penguin Books. ISBN 0-14-303820-6.
The important points are that:
  • From that camera height of 159 feet from that spot approximately 55 miles from Chicago, it is expected that only about 1043 feet of this skyline should be obscured by the horizon.

    But we usually expect some atmospheric refract and the Metabunk Earth's Curve Horizon, Bulge, Drop, and Hidden Calculator allows for that.
    This "normal" refraction would show that only 839 feet and all it needs to cause a little extra refraction is for the air being cooler near the lake's surface that higher up.

  • The unobscured skyline should be something like this, though it's probably not quite from the same direction.


  • The so-called "mirage" photo would never have made it to the evening news if seeing that much of Chicago was usually seen.
And you might find this entertaining:

Flat Earth Lunacy: The Chicago Skyline Seen From Michigan by The Quagmire


For those interested here is Joshua Nowicki's own video:

Time-lapse: Looking toward Chicago from Michigan by Joshua Nowicki

But if you expect that the "RE Community will Accept Defeat" you are doing a poor job of convincing them - try harder.

You are confused again. The pictures I posted are not the same as yours.  My pics are from a video taken at Warren Dune State Park. I have updated the post with this infor. You are twisting locations and events with a different picture than I posted.

The highest dune at Warren Dune State Park is 260". What should be hidden is 693'. The Sears tower is 1450'. What is seen of the City in the video is a lot more than half the City. It's time for the Globe Community to recalculate Earth's curvature.   Eratosthenes was wrong.

And remember we see the lights come on from bottom up after sunset.





Accept defeat!
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #541 on: August 09, 2019, 08:33:28 AM »
Explain how scientists can "confidently" explain that the sun lags behind to appear above the horizon when it is below it, when, as sokarul tells us, the sun moves faster at sunset.

That isnt what sokarul said. There's a dishonesty to your post which hinders, rather than helps the discussion.

The sun setting faster at the horizon is a known effect.

If you want to see a bunch of people farting out contradictory answer for this with zero evidence just do an internet search : https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/b1ajz5/the_sun_appears_to_move_faster_during_sunrise_or/

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markjo

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #542 on: August 09, 2019, 09:38:45 AM »
Explain how scientists can "confidently" explain that the sun lags behind to appear above the horizon when it is below it, when, as sokarul tells us, the sun moves faster at sunset.

That isnt what sokarul said. There's a dishonesty to your post which hinders, rather than helps the discussion.

The sun setting faster at the horizon is a known effect.
Have you measured the speed of the setting sun and compared it to the speed of the sun as it moves across the sky?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #543 on: August 09, 2019, 09:43:04 AM »
Explain how scientists can "confidently" explain that the sun lags behind to appear above the horizon when it is below it, when, as sokarul tells us, the sun moves faster at sunset.

That isnt what sokarul said. There's a dishonesty to your post which hinders, rather than helps the discussion.

The sun setting faster at the horizon is a known effect.
Have you measured the speed of the setting sun and compared it to the speed of the sun as it moves across the sky?

Didn't you say it was sokarul's problem and not yours and deleted it?

Have you measured the alleged surface curvature of any landmass or canal and compared it to a 3959 mile radius? Was the foundation of you theory built without verifying surface curvature?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 10:44:22 AM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #544 on: August 09, 2019, 10:57:52 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 10:59:25 AM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Crutchwater

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #545 on: August 09, 2019, 11:06:30 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Stash

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #546 on: August 09, 2019, 11:09:29 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

And where will your FE sun be in 12 hours?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #547 on: August 09, 2019, 11:09:53 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Stash

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #548 on: August 09, 2019, 11:16:10 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #549 on: August 09, 2019, 11:32:22 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above those at the equator and a bit farther away from the viewer at 45 degrees N.

I can wait.....
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 11:37:58 AM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

  • 5286
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #550 on: August 09, 2019, 11:37:37 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above the equator and a bit farther for the viewer.

I can wait.....

Where will your sun be today in 12 hours?

I can wait...
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #551 on: August 09, 2019, 11:40:38 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above the equator and a bit farther for the viewer.

I can wait.....

Where will your sun be today in 12 hours?

I can wait...
Out of view and I can't check it's angular size at that time. So stay on topic or leave me alone. Got that?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #552 on: August 09, 2019, 11:45:28 AM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above the equator and a bit farther for the viewer.

I can wait.....

Where will your sun be today in 12 hours?

I can wait...
Out of view and I can't check it's angular size at that time. So stay on topic or leave me alone. Got that?

What's the topic again? Canals, Suns, gravity, space...

To make it simple for you, where will your sun be just before sunset? As in what part of the earth is the FE sun over, noon-ish there time, when it's getting near sunset for you?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Crutchwater

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #553 on: August 09, 2019, 11:53:22 AM »
Is it a "spotlight" type sun, plat?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #554 on: August 09, 2019, 01:53:29 PM »
Am I to believe some of you teach the Sun's angular size changes greatly on a Plane Earth without an explanation? Just throw it out there and hope it sticks? Is that what Newton did when he faked the Moons direction?  I believe so.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

  • 5286
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #555 on: August 09, 2019, 02:00:30 PM »
Am I to believe some of you teach the Sun's angular size changes greatly on a Plane Earth without an explanation? Just throw it out there and hope it sticks? Is that what Newton did when he faked the Moons direction?  I believe so.

We don't teach anything about a flat earth.

So, where is the FE sun just before your sunset and is it of the 'spotlight' model?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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sokarul

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #556 on: August 09, 2019, 02:06:49 PM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above those at the equator and a bit farther away from the viewer at 45 degrees N.

I can wait.....

The change in distance from noon to sunset is greater on fe than on  a round earth.

3200/4200=0.76
Where as 93 mil/ 93 mil + 20000 is still 0.999.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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sokarul

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #557 on: August 09, 2019, 02:10:35 PM »
Explain how scientists can "confidently" explain that the sun lags behind to appear above the horizon when it is below it, when, as sokarul tells us, the sun moves faster at sunset.

That isnt what sokarul said. There's a dishonesty to your post which hinders, rather than helps the discussion.

The sun setting faster at the horizon is a known effect.

If you want to see a bunch of people farting out contradictory answer for this with zero evidence just do an internet search : https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/b1ajz5/the_sun_appears_to_move_faster_during_sunrise_or/

Which is strange when you look at the FET and simple geometry. FET predicts the sun will appear to move slower.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #558 on: August 09, 2019, 02:43:14 PM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above those at the equator and a bit farther away from the viewer at 45 degrees N.

I can wait.....

The change in distance from noon to sunset is greater on fe than on  a round earth.

3200/4200=0.76
Where as 93 mil/ 93 mil + 20000 is still 0.999.
And how do you come up with the difference in FE?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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sokarul

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #559 on: August 09, 2019, 02:51:14 PM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above those at the equator and a bit farther away from the viewer at 45 degrees N.

I can wait.....

The change in distance from noon to sunset is greater on fe than on  a round earth.

3200/4200=0.76
Where as 93 mil/ 93 mil + 20000 is still 0.999.
And how do you come up with the difference in FE?
Guessed at the sunís distance at sunset.

You can use simple trig and get your own answer.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Crutchwater

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #560 on: August 09, 2019, 02:52:24 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #561 on: August 09, 2019, 02:53:48 PM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

How far away is the sun from your flat Earth?

Let's say,

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

For anyone to answer that they would have to know which FE model you subscribe to. So, how far away is your sun and where will it be in 12 hours?

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth on the day of the Equinox for those at 45 degrees N?

At noon the Sun is around 3200 miles maybe a little more above those at the equator and a bit farther away from the viewer at 45 degrees N.

I can wait.....

The change in distance from noon to sunset is greater on fe than on  a round earth.

3200/4200=0.76
Where as 93 mil/ 93 mil + 20000 is still 0.999.
And how do you come up with the difference in FE?
Guessed at the sunís distance at sunset.

You can use simple trig and get your own answer.

Guessed? lol,

Thanks for sharing that.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

sokarul

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #562 on: August 09, 2019, 02:54:50 PM »
How far away is the sun at sunset?
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #563 on: August 09, 2019, 02:56:39 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Plat Terra

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  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #564 on: August 09, 2019, 03:00:35 PM »
How far away is the sun at sunset?

It all depends on the latitude, the time of year and it changes daily.

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

sokarul

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #565 on: August 09, 2019, 03:03:47 PM »
How far away is the sun at sunset?

It all depends on the latitude, the time of year and it changes daily.

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?

As explained the the change in the distance to the sun from noon to sunset is significant.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

Crutchwater

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #566 on: August 09, 2019, 03:03:52 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.

because they simply do not exist.

and my analogy is nearly perfect for every near-sun model I have seen. If your sun is that close, (what did you say, 3,200 miles?), and it clearly needs to travel much further laterally to provide the day cycle we clearly observe, it would absolutely reduce in angular size as it "goes away".


So, explain your sun. Don't give me that "I don't have time" bullshit", dumb it down for us indoctrinated sheep.
How far away is it?
Where is it right now?
Where does it go at night?
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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markjo

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #567 on: August 09, 2019, 03:11:37 PM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change greatly on a Plane Earth?
Because the sun's distance from an observer changes greatly on a plane earth.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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rabinoz

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #568 on: August 09, 2019, 03:22:32 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.
So if you do "have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics" explain why the sun's and moon's angular size change must change on the flat earth.

Hint, it has something to do with perspective.

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #569 on: August 09, 2019, 03:35:56 PM »
Why are you posting what the Round Earth Theory claims is an illusion to show that there is no illusion occuring?
Why are you appealing to well known refraction, which easily explains it for a RE, while avoiding providing a FE explanation?

Note: refraction is not an illusion.

Also note: refraction is well understood.
With a RE we have a very small amount of refraction, less than 1 degree.
For a FE you need massive amounts of refraction which varies dramatically based upon location and time.

At 10 000 km away, the 5000 km high sun should appear at an angle of roughly 26.5 degrees.
That means you need 26.5 degrees of refraction, and more importantly, in the opposite direction.

What causes this opposite direction of refraction?
We know that as altitude increases, density decreases. If it didn't the dense air would fall.
We also know that for air, refractive index is related to density such that more dense air has a higher refractive index.
This means as altitude increases, refractive index decreases.
So a ray of light going downwards from the sun will go into a denser and denser medium meaning it will go closer to the normal and thus curve down, not up like you need.