When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #240 on: August 02, 2019, 02:42:42 PM »
Yes, mirages are well known, except when it comes to boats going over a curve. Only then the mirages can't apply, right?
Mirages (atmospheric refractive phenomena) can and do apply to boats going over a curve under certain, well defined conditions.  The trick is to understand what those conditions are and how they apply.


You mean like this when even the docked boat at shore can't be seen?

The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #241 on: August 02, 2019, 02:54:11 PM »
Itís proper to know that the person who is trying to teach me has verified the foundation of their belief otherwise what good is their information?
They don't need to verify it with their own measurements.
They just need to know the evidence for it.

If you expected them to have verified it all themselves, then science teachers would have to spend their entire lives going out verifying each piece of science before being able to teach and then no one would ever be a science teacher.

Do you demand the same ridiculous standards for all other aspects of science, or just the ones you reject without cause?

Two bodies of water being joined together through any form at surface or below will equalize and have the same horizontal surface and not curve at any point.
Stop lying.
It has already been explained repeatedly that that is not the case. Level does not always mean flat.

If you wish to assert such nonsense the burden of proof is on you to show that water in large bodies is flat, not curved.

Now, do you have any evidence to support your claims, or are you only capable of shifting the burden of proof and ignoring the evidence provided?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #242 on: August 02, 2019, 02:58:52 PM »
Yes, mirages are well known, except when it comes to boats going over a curve. Only then the mirages can't apply, right?
Mirages (atmospheric refractive phenomena) can and do apply to boats going over a curve under certain, well defined conditions.  The trick is to understand what those conditions are and how they apply.


Plata,
You could chose to measure in a range of conditions to factor out weather effects.
No ones limiting you to one hot day prone to atmospheric uncertainty.
Take a sample.
You know...how other science does it.
As you scoffed earlier.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 03:48:54 PM by Themightykabool »

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kopfverderber

  • 440
  • Globularist
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #243 on: August 02, 2019, 03:01:26 PM »
Now, do you have any evidence to support your claims, or are you only capable of shifting the burden of proof and ignoring the evidence provided?

I for one would love to see how the dome or the ice wall have been verified by the FE community, but apparently they are too busy investigating the panama canal and looking for flaws in pictures from NASA.
You must gather your party before venturing forth

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rabinoz

  • 22909
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #244 on: August 02, 2019, 03:09:37 PM »

Yeah and the legs of this man and woman have also disappeared behind the curve. I saw it myself! It's true. Please believe me!


Mirages are well know.

Yes, mirages are well known, except when it comes to boats going over a curve. Only then the mirages can't apply, right?
Of course mirages can apply then but in most cases, as in your photo, the mirage can be seen for what it is.

And most of the time ships, etc disappearing is not caused by atmospheric conditions as in:

Something is hiding behind the curve. by BM Furball


And a couple of the Bathurst Lighthouse on Rottnest Island (sorry, no boats):

Bathurst Lighthouse - The fastest flat Earth destroyer in the West.
by Wolfie6020
               
Wolfie6020 and Bathurst Lighthouse destroy Flat Earth again
by Critical Think

And the ultimate disappearing "trick":

Manhattan Beach, California "Ocean Waves Crashing with Sunset" "Relaxation Meditation"


Are you going to claim that every night we get a mirage that hides the sun till next morning when it pops up on the other side?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #245 on: August 02, 2019, 03:17:56 PM »

I for one would love to see how the dome or the ice wall have been verified by the FE community, but apparently they are too busy investigating the panama canal and looking for flaws in pictures from NASA.

Quite.  As per topic title, I wonít be accepting defeat on grounds of flat earthers unable to understand things like gravity or refraction.

Show me the dome, or the edge, or the infinite uncharted lands beyond the wall, or whatever flat earthers subscribe to.  It shouldnít be that hard if it were real.

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Stash

  • 3488
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #246 on: August 02, 2019, 03:25:49 PM »
You mean like this when even the docked boat at shore can't be seen?



First of all, the Suez Canal was surveyed 150 years ago with verified orthometric leveling to ensure an even sea level transition between the Red and the Med. If you would like to re-verify it, research and/or go out and survey it yourself.

Secondly, I'm tired of seeing ye olde skunk bay image as proof of anything. It's 5 miles across the bay. What would you expect as a curve in 5 miles? It's a couple of feet. And no one has ever said, "Oh look over there, 5 miles, across skunk bay, the shoreline is over the horizon..." No one. That doesn't even make sense. So what if miraging appears in a time lapse. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. So what? Ridiculous.

Thirdly, where did you dig up, "Curved surfaces do not create mirages"? Did you just make that up?

Lastly, learn the models. Including your own. You have zero idea what you are even arguing against. You've shown, time and time again, from your "Shadow Experiments" memes to your Canal/Curve memes that you have no clue how any of the models work. And you resort to making up things, like new phrases for 'sea level' and such. Do at least a smidge of research and bone up on logic.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #247 on: August 02, 2019, 04:52:10 PM »


There is no reason to re-present videos to counter your argument, again and again like many others have. You will just keep repeating the same things over and over. Your arguments donít matter anymore considering you are incapable of actually verifying (the foundation of your theory) surface curvature. NASA, SpaceX and Newton canít even help you now.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #248 on: August 02, 2019, 05:09:22 PM »
You mean like this when even the docked boat at shore can't be seen?




Secondly, I'm tired of seeing ye olde skunk bay image as proof of anything. It's 5 miles across the bay. What would you expect as a curve in 5 miles? It's a couple of feet. And no one has ever said, "Oh look over there, 5 miles, across skunk bay, the shoreline is over the horizon..." No one. That doesn't even make sense. So what if miraging appears in a time lapse. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. So what? Ridiculous.

Thirdly, where did you dig up, "Curved surfaces do not create mirages"? Did you just make that up?



You do realize there is 16' drop in curvature at 5 miles? And do you see how much of the shoreline view is blocked?

I learned it through observation while driving over hilly roads.  In between each hill a mirage can be observed at the surface only if the surface is flat to the next curve and rising hill. There is no mirage over the curved areas of the road. And because superior mirages are horizontal.



« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 05:15:17 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Stash

  • 3488
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #249 on: August 02, 2019, 05:10:15 PM »


There is no reason to re-present videos to counter your argument, again and again like many others have. You will just keep repeating the same things over and over. Your arguments donít matter anymore considering you are incapable of actually verifying (the foundation of your theory) surface curvature. NASA, SpaceX and Newton canít even help you now.

How far is it from Miami to Manhattan on a flat earth? Describe the method you used to determine the distance and how you verified it.

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Crutchwater

  • 2100
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #250 on: August 02, 2019, 05:11:30 PM »
Itís proper to know that the person who is trying to teach me has verified the foundation of their belief otherwise what good is their information?
They don't need to verify it with their own measurements.
They just need to know the evidence for it.

If you expected them to have verified it all themselves, then science teachers would have to spend their entire lives going out verifying each piece of science before being able to teach and then no one would ever be a science teacher.

Do you demand the same ridiculous standards for all other aspects of science, or just the ones you reject without cause?

Two bodies of water being joined together through any form at surface or below will equalize and have the same horizontal surface and not curve at any point.
Stop lying.
It has already been explained repeatedly that that is not the case. Level does not always mean flat.

If you wish to assert such nonsense the burden of proof is on you to show that water in large bodies is flat, not curved.

Now, do you have any evidence to support your claims, or are you only capable of shifting the burden of proof and ignoring the evidence provided?

I will express it in another way.
Those who come here seeking truth need to know that no one in the Globe Community has ever verified the claim Earth has the surface curvature in relation to a 3959 mile radius. And yet everyone follows it blindly, without any verification. This is why I said ďyou.Ē

Truth seekers need to know people accept the Globe Earth theory in the same manner and way as fairytales, gossip and hearsay is accepted and passed down throughout history and through agenda driven media and Elites. 

The Globe Earth theory is also accepted in the same manner as all traditions passed down through history right or wrong, such as political affiliation, membership into a club and other . It is accepted because of traditions without question.

Soon, if not all ready, you, your children  and grandchildren will believe in more than two-genders also, not because itís true and has been verified, but because itís the way of mainstream. You probable already believe in global warming hoax too, right?

Yes, anyone can look a large body of water such as a ocean and see a curve? No, they see a horizontal (flat straight) line where sky meets ocean. There is nothing in our natural surroundings reveal Earth is a sphere spinning 1000 MPH and hurling through space. No motion, no turbulence and nothing curved at a distance.

So you better verify that surface curvature and make sure it conforms to a sphere as claimed, because your numbers are dwindling.




You keep claiming that nobody has verified the curvature of the globe, yet you have been repeatedly shown that your statement is completely false.

Tell me, what evidence would you accept that shows you are wrong?

None?

You speak of an "agenda" regarding concealment of the true shape of the Earth. Would you care to describe this "agenda"? Please, don't spare the juicy details!
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #251 on: August 02, 2019, 05:26:47 PM »
Itís proper to know that the person who is trying to teach me has verified the foundation of their belief otherwise what good is their information?
They don't need to verify it with their own measurements.
They just need to know the evidence for it.

If you expected them to have verified it all themselves, then science teachers would have to spend their entire lives going out verifying each piece of science before being able to teach and then no one would ever be a science teacher.

Do you demand the same ridiculous standards for all other aspects of science, or just the ones you reject without cause?

Two bodies of water being joined together through any form at surface or below will equalize and have the same horizontal surface and not curve at any point.
Stop lying.
It has already been explained repeatedly that that is not the case. Level does not always mean flat.

If you wish to assert such nonsense the burden of proof is on you to show that water in large bodies is flat, not curved.

Now, do you have any evidence to support your claims, or are you only capable of shifting the burden of proof and ignoring the evidence provided?

I will express it in another way.
Those who come here seeking truth need to know that no one in the Globe Community has ever verified the claim Earth has the surface curvature in relation to a 3959 mile radius. And yet everyone follows it blindly, without any verification. This is why I said ďyou.Ē

Truth seekers need to know people accept the Globe Earth theory in the same manner and way as fairytales, gossip and hearsay is accepted and passed down throughout history and through agenda driven media and Elites. 

The Globe Earth theory is also accepted in the same manner as all traditions passed down through history right or wrong, such as political affiliation, membership into a club and other . It is accepted because of traditions without question.

Soon, if not all ready, you, your children  and grandchildren will believe in more than two-genders also, not because itís true and has been verified, but because itís the way of mainstream. You probable already believe in global warming hoax too, right?

Yes, anyone can look a large body of water such as a ocean and see a curve? No, they see a horizontal (flat straight) line where sky meets ocean. There is nothing in our natural surroundings reveal Earth is a sphere spinning 1000 MPH and hurling through space. No motion, no turbulence and nothing curved at a distance.

So you better verify that surface curvature and make sure it conforms to a sphere as claimed, because your numbers are dwindling.




You keep claiming that nobody has verified the curvature of the globe, yet you have been repeatedly shown that your statement is completely false.

Tell me, what evidence would you accept that shows you are wrong?

None?

You speak of an "agenda" regarding concealment of the true shape of the Earth. Would you care to describe this "agenda"? Please, don't spare the juicy details!

Read my signature again. It says landmass and canal. If you can do that then what choice do I have?

Agenda? You won't like it. Have a look.....

The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #252 on: August 02, 2019, 05:33:11 PM »
I will express it in another way.
Those who come here seeking truth need to know that no one in the Globe Community has ever verified the claim Earth has the surface curvature in relation to a 3959 mile radius.
Expressing the same lie in another way wont help you.
The curvature of Earth has been verified, countless times.

Yes, anyone can look a large body of water such as a ocean and see a curve? No, they see a horizontal (flat straight) line where sky meets ocean.
No, they see a circle, which goes all around.
If they use an accurate measuring device, they see that this circle is below them, with an angle of dip as expected for a RE.

There is nothing in our natural surroundings reveal Earth is a sphere spinning 1000 MPH and hurling through space.
Except the horizon, and the behaviour of the horizon and objects near it, and the apparent motion of stars.
And then there are plenty of instruments for accurately measuring it.
You not liking that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What there is nothing of is any indication that Earth is a flat, motionless plane.

You do realize there is 16' drop in curvature at 5 miles?
And how high was the camera?

What you actually need to do is use the height of the camera to determine the distance to the horizon, and then use the remaining distance to determine how much should be hidden.

And do you see how much of the shoreline view is blocked?
In which image?
Is the first image the one without distortion, with the shoreline visible, and then the second one has atmospheric effects obscuring the horizon?
Or is the second image the one without significant distortion, with the first one allowing more to be visible due to refraction?

I learned it through observation while driving over hilly roads.
So you assumed it based upon incomplete observations.
You can't use examples of mirages occurring in one location to conclude they can't form in another.
Nor can you use the simple absence of them in one location to confirm that they can't form there.

That would be like saying because I don't see a mirage over a flat table, they can't form on flat surfaces.
Or because I have only seen them in a particular location on Earth, that that one location is the only place they can form.
There is nothing rational or scientific about that.

What you actually need to do is focus on how mirages form.

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rabinoz

  • 22909
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #253 on: August 02, 2019, 05:55:05 PM »


There is no reason to re-present videos to counter your argument, again and again like many others have. You will just keep repeating the same things over and over. Your arguments donít matter anymore considering you are incapable of actually verifying (the foundation of your theory) surface curvature. NASA, SpaceX and Newton canít even help you now.
You have never shown that the curvature is not there!
And I'm sorry, Mr Plat Terra, but I don't have to follow your rules!

Your topic is "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" and you don't get to answer that question, we do! Get that?
The "Globe Earth Community" will accept defeat when the "Globe Earth Community" says so and not before!
I am not the "Globe Earth Community" just one insignificant person.

But why do you dismiss all evidence except the one little bit that you choose?
There is a tremendous amount of evidence both from observations on Earth and from astronomy that you refuse to even acknowledge.
Until you learn to face that simple fact you've got no case.

I show a video that clearly demonstrates enough curve to hide a great deal of land and buildings but you dismiss it out of hand, this one:

Something is hiding behind the curve. by BM Furball


I show a video that clearly demonstrates that the horizon clearly falls well below eye-level (contrary to flat-earth) but you dismiss it out of hand:

Wolfie6020 and Bathurst Lighthouse destroy Flat Earth again by Critical Think


You say "NASA and SpaceX canít even help you now" but I posted no photos from either. I posted these!
         
No NASA there and the left one is from long before SpaceX existed!

And you say, "Newton canít even help you now" but there you're wrong!
Newton knew a great deal more than you about the Laws of Motion and Gravitation.
Either his "Laws of Motion" or his "Law of Universal Gravitation" debunk any flat earth models of today and together they demolish the whole idea of the earth's being flat - so you must debunk all of Newton!

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frenat

  • 3450
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #254 on: August 02, 2019, 05:55:24 PM »
What was that bad experimetn perfromed by rowboat?
Looks like it could be re-tried here on the northern half of the canal as it seems quite straight - If ship bottom dips below the horizon, the earth is curving.

But then if you think about it, does it even have to be a canal?
We could use any stretch of water of significant length.
Wheres googonomny.
He used to be a sailor and could explain.

Yeah and perform the experiment on a hot steamy day as to make sure you can't see the Boat.


Why do you keep ignoring the replies you get about this pic? In the morning there is more refraction as the air is cooler. It even SHOWS the air is cooler on your pic. You just ignore what is inconvenient for your beliefs. Thanks for the humor!

Although at least it appears you abandoned all your silly proposed experiments that you assumed the results of without testing.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 05:58:29 PM by frenat »

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Crutchwater

  • 2100
  • Stop Indoctrinating me!
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #255 on: August 02, 2019, 05:58:29 PM »
Itís proper to know that the person who is trying to teach me has verified the foundation of their belief otherwise what good is their information?
They don't need to verify it with their own measurements.
They just need to know the evidence for it.

If you expected them to have verified it all themselves, then science teachers would have to spend their entire lives going out verifying each piece of science before being able to teach and then no one would ever be a science teacher.

Do you demand the same ridiculous standards for all other aspects of science, or just the ones you reject without cause?

Two bodies of water being joined together through any form at surface or below will equalize and have the same horizontal surface and not curve at any point.
Stop lying.
It has already been explained repeatedly that that is not the case. Level does not always mean flat.

If you wish to assert such nonsense the burden of proof is on you to show that water in large bodies is flat, not curved.

Now, do you have any evidence to support your claims, or are you only capable of shifting the burden of proof and ignoring the evidence provided?

I will express it in another way.
Those who come here seeking truth need to know that no one in the Globe Community has ever verified the claim Earth has the surface curvature in relation to a 3959 mile radius. And yet everyone follows it blindly, without any verification. This is why I said ďyou.Ē

Truth seekers need to know people accept the Globe Earth theory in the same manner and way as fairytales, gossip and hearsay is accepted and passed down throughout history and through agenda driven media and Elites. 

The Globe Earth theory is also accepted in the same manner as all traditions passed down through history right or wrong, such as political affiliation, membership into a club and other . It is accepted because of traditions without question.

Soon, if not all ready, you, your children  and grandchildren will believe in more than two-genders also, not because itís true and has been verified, but because itís the way of mainstream. You probable already believe in global warming hoax too, right?

Yes, anyone can look a large body of water such as a ocean and see a curve? No, they see a horizontal (flat straight) line where sky meets ocean. There is nothing in our natural surroundings reveal Earth is a sphere spinning 1000 MPH and hurling through space. No motion, no turbulence and nothing curved at a distance.

So you better verify that surface curvature and make sure it conforms to a sphere as claimed, because your numbers are dwindling.




You keep claiming that nobody has verified the curvature of the globe, yet you have been repeatedly shown that your statement is completely false.

Tell me, what evidence would you accept that shows you are wrong?

None?

You speak of an "agenda" regarding concealment of the true shape of the Earth. Would you care to describe this "agenda"? Please, don't spare the juicy details!

Read my signature again. It says landmass and canal. If you can do that then what choice do I have?

Agenda? You won't like it. Have a look.....




Thar doesn't answer the question as to what evidence you would accept.

Your sig says "The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone."

Who do you consider to be the "globe community"? Do you include the all of Earths inhabitants who do not post on a flat Earth website? Or is it just a name given to the RE people who post on this forum?


Can you summarize that video? Specifically, what is to gain through such deception? Should be a simple question.

Why would you expect me to believe that video is anything more than a complete "photoshop hoax"?
Do you think it would be fair if I take the same stance that every flat Earth person takes regarding video evidence of our globe?

 I could only watch a few minutes before her tinfoil hat showed up, but I can tell you this... The shape of the Earth was measured, documented, and verified a LONG TIME before Disney or "mainstream media" were even a thing.
I will always be Here To Laugh At You.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #256 on: August 02, 2019, 06:11:04 PM »
I will express it in another way.
Those who come here seeking truth need to know that no one in the Globe Community has ever verified the claim Earth has the surface curvature in relation to a 3959 mile radius.
Expressing the same lie in another way wont help you.
The curvature of Earth has been verified, countless times.

Yes, anyone can look a large body of water such as a ocean and see a curve? No, they see a horizontal (flat straight) line where sky meets ocean.
No, they see a circle, which goes all around.
If they use an accurate measuring device, they see that this circle is below them, with an angle of dip as expected for a RE.

There is nothing in our natural surroundings reveal Earth is a sphere spinning 1000 MPH and hurling through space.
Except the horizon, and the behaviour of the horizon and objects near it, and the apparent motion of stars.
And then there are plenty of instruments for accurately measuring it.
You not liking that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What there is nothing of is any indication that Earth is a flat, motionless plane.

You do realize there is 16' drop in curvature at 5 miles?
And how high was the camera?

What you actually need to do is use the height of the camera to determine the distance to the horizon, and then use the remaining distance to determine how much should be hidden.

And do you see how much of the shoreline view is blocked?
In which image?
Is the first image the one without distortion, with the shoreline visible, and then the second one has atmospheric effects obscuring the horizon?
Or is the second image the one without significant distortion, with the first one allowing more to be visible due to refraction?

I learned it through observation while driving over hilly roads.
So you assumed it based upon incomplete observations.
You can't use examples of mirages occurring in one location to conclude they can't form in another.
Nor can you use the simple absence of them in one location to confirm that they can't form there.



Even on a infinite Plane we can only see in a circle. Optics can only see in the radius of a circle. The farthest we can see is straight ahead, anything left to right is pulled back.  And does not mean we live on a sphere.  If we lived on a sphere the horizon would curve from center left to right, but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000íplus and the Red bull Jump. What does he see out the opened hatch?



The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #257 on: August 02, 2019, 06:17:05 PM »
What was that bad experimetn perfromed by rowboat?
Looks like it could be re-tried here on the northern half of the canal as it seems quite straight - If ship bottom dips below the horizon, the earth is curving.

But then if you think about it, does it even have to be a canal?
We could use any stretch of water of significant length.
Wheres googonomny.
He used to be a sailor and could explain.

Yeah and perform the experiment on a hot steamy day as to make sure you can't see the Boat.


Why do you keep ignoring the replies you get about this pic? In the morning there is more refraction as the air is cooler. It even SHOWS the air is cooler on your pic. You just ignore what is inconvenient for your beliefs. Thanks for the humor!

Although at least it appears you abandoned all your silly proposed experiments that you assumed the results of without testing.

Well, I am glad you find some humor. BTW, do you find humor in my avatar?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Stash

  • 3488
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #258 on: August 02, 2019, 06:21:06 PM »
Even on a infinite Plane we can only see in a circle. Optics can only see in the radius of a circle. The farthest we can see is straight ahead, anything left to right is pulled back.  And does not mean we live on a sphere.  If we lived on a sphere the horizon would curve from center left to right, but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000íplus and the Red bull Jump. What does he see out the opened hatch?

All fine and good. But your sig says, "The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?"

And we have shown that the curve has and is measured and a factor. However, you can't actually measure and verify the distance from Miami to Manhattan on a flat earth? Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #259 on: August 02, 2019, 06:48:26 PM »
Even on a infinite Plane we can only see in a circle. Optics can only see in the radius of a circle. The farthest we can see is straight ahead, anything left to right is pulled back.  And does not mean we live on a sphere.  If we lived on a sphere the horizon would curve from center left to right, but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000íplus and the Red bull Jump. What does he see out the opened hatch?
For an infinite plane, the horizon should be a blur at eye level.
The fact that it isn't at eye level means we are on a sphere.

On a perfect sphere the horizon would be circle centred on a point below you.
It would have the same angle of dip all around.
It would not curve from the centre, as the centre is below you, not on the horizon.
The perimeter of a circle has no centre.

A balloon at a height of 100 000 archaic units is only 0.5% of the radius above the sphere.
The horizon would be at a distance of roughly 387 archaic units or roughly 2 million archaic units.
That means you are only roughly 4.9% of the radius of the circle above the circle (note, this circle is the horizon).
That would be like getting a hula hoop with a diameter of 1 m, and looking at it from 2 cm above it.
If you are only viewing a tiny angle of this circle, it will appear pretty much as a straight line.

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NotSoSkeptical

  • 5124
  • I abuse wise
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #260 on: August 02, 2019, 06:53:46 PM »
I will express it in another way.
Those who come here seeking truth need to know that no one in the Globe Community has ever verified the claim Earth has the surface curvature in relation to a 3959 mile radius.
Expressing the same lie in another way wont help you.
The curvature of Earth has been verified, countless times.

Yes, anyone can look a large body of water such as a ocean and see a curve? No, they see a horizontal (flat straight) line where sky meets ocean.
No, they see a circle, which goes all around.
If they use an accurate measuring device, they see that this circle is below them, with an angle of dip as expected for a RE.

There is nothing in our natural surroundings reveal Earth is a sphere spinning 1000 MPH and hurling through space.
Except the horizon, and the behaviour of the horizon and objects near it, and the apparent motion of stars.
And then there are plenty of instruments for accurately measuring it.
You not liking that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What there is nothing of is any indication that Earth is a flat, motionless plane.

You do realize there is 16' drop in curvature at 5 miles?
And how high was the camera?

What you actually need to do is use the height of the camera to determine the distance to the horizon, and then use the remaining distance to determine how much should be hidden.

And do you see how much of the shoreline view is blocked?
In which image?
Is the first image the one without distortion, with the shoreline visible, and then the second one has atmospheric effects obscuring the horizon?
Or is the second image the one without significant distortion, with the first one allowing more to be visible due to refraction?

I learned it through observation while driving over hilly roads.
So you assumed it based upon incomplete observations.
You can't use examples of mirages occurring in one location to conclude they can't form in another.
Nor can you use the simple absence of them in one location to confirm that they can't form there.



Even on a infinite Plane we can only see in a circle. Optics can only see in the radius of a circle. The farthest we can see is straight ahead, anything left to right is pulled back.  And does not mean we live on a sphere.  If we lived on a sphere the horizon would curve from center left to right, but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000íplus and the Red bull Jump. What does he see out the opened hatch?





You do realize that the earth is huge.

If you were the size of a grain of sand, the earth's circumference would still be over 13 miles.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

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frenat

  • 3450
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #261 on: August 02, 2019, 07:07:20 PM »
What was that bad experimetn perfromed by rowboat?
Looks like it could be re-tried here on the northern half of the canal as it seems quite straight - If ship bottom dips below the horizon, the earth is curving.

But then if you think about it, does it even have to be a canal?
We could use any stretch of water of significant length.
Wheres googonomny.
He used to be a sailor and could explain.

Yeah and perform the experiment on a hot steamy day as to make sure you can't see the Boat.


Why do you keep ignoring the replies you get about this pic? In the morning there is more refraction as the air is cooler. It even SHOWS the air is cooler on your pic. You just ignore what is inconvenient for your beliefs. Thanks for the humor!

Although at least it appears you abandoned all your silly proposed experiments that you assumed the results of without testing.

Well, I am glad you find some humor. BTW, do you find humor in my avatar?
the humor is in how desperate you are and how much you just ignore anything inconvenient for your predetermined conclusions. The humor is in how much you don't understand about the subject you argue against. That you make claims like the horizon should curve from "center left to right" proves that. The humor is how much you get wrong in nearly every post. The humor is in how you proposed multiple supposed experiments to prove the Earth flat and ASSUMED the results when you hadn't bothered to do a single one. I'm betting you still haven't bothered to read the link I provided before regarding the Earth pics and the difference in the apparent size of landmasses. You're a joke.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 07:09:07 PM by frenat »

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #262 on: August 02, 2019, 07:08:38 PM »
When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

Both the coastlines of Atlantic and Pacific are at 0' Sea level and both are 3,962 miles from Earths alleged center.
The distance between Oceans with the Panama Canal in-between is about 36 Miles.
The center of Panama Canal is about 18 miles from the coast on Gatun Lake and is 85’ above each Ocean shoreline.
The drop in curvature at 18 miles is 216’.  That places Earth’s curvature at 216’ (3962 miles from center of Earth) feet above each coastline at center.
That also places Gatun Lake 131’ below Earths alleged 3962 mile radius marker.
That means if Earth were a Globe, the Panama Canal could not exist because Gatun Lake would be under 131’ of sea water at 18 miles from the Coast. The Canal exists because water does not curve.

It’s that simple, we won. We really never lost. Earth Remains a flat Plane with mountains, hills and valleys and sea level bodies of water.

But the real question is, when is the Globe community going to accept defeat?

NASA can't help them, fake pictures and fake moon landings cannot rescue them. 

No argument they have is going to magically make the oceans curve and flood the Panama Canal, no matter what they say or do.  It’s not going to happen.  After reading this if one continues to defend a Globe Earth theory, they are just professional deniers who really don’t care for truth.



Hey, I just registered here and followed this discussion.. there is one simple point you are missing:

The 216' that you describe are just the height that is hidden behind the curvature FROM SIGHT.. just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's under water like Atlantis..

It's a shame, your knowledge of this is so little..
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 07:15:14 PM by trustscience »

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rabinoz

  • 22909
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #263 on: August 02, 2019, 07:53:32 PM »
If we lived on a sphere the horizon would curve from center left to right, but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000íplus and the Red bull Jump.
But on a sphere of 12740 km diameter just how much should the horizon curve from center left to right? That is the  important question.

And even Red Bull's 39 km is only 0.3% of the diameter of the earth so you tell us just how much.
You say "but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000í plus and the Red bull Jump".

Can you honestly claim to see enough of the horizon in you Felix Baumgartner's photo to claim that the horizon is flat?

Of course you can't!

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #264 on: August 02, 2019, 07:59:39 PM »
I will express it in another way.
Those who come here seeking truth need to know that no one in the Globe Community has ever verified the claim Earth has the surface curvature in relation to a 3959 mile radius.
Expressing the same lie in another way wont help you.
The curvature of Earth has been verified, countless times.

Yes, anyone can look a large body of water such as a ocean and see a curve? No, they see a horizontal (flat straight) line where sky meets ocean.
No, they see a circle, which goes all around.
If they use an accurate measuring device, they see that this circle is below them, with an angle of dip as expected for a RE.

There is nothing in our natural surroundings reveal Earth is a sphere spinning 1000 MPH and hurling through space.
Except the horizon, and the behaviour of the horizon and objects near it, and the apparent motion of stars.
And then there are plenty of instruments for accurately measuring it.
You not liking that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

What there is nothing of is any indication that Earth is a flat, motionless plane.

You do realize there is 16' drop in curvature at 5 miles?
And how high was the camera?

What you actually need to do is use the height of the camera to determine the distance to the horizon, and then use the remaining distance to determine how much should be hidden.

And do you see how much of the shoreline view is blocked?
In which image?
Is the first image the one without distortion, with the shoreline visible, and then the second one has atmospheric effects obscuring the horizon?
Or is the second image the one without significant distortion, with the first one allowing more to be visible due to refraction?

I learned it through observation while driving over hilly roads.
So you assumed it based upon incomplete observations.
You can't use examples of mirages occurring in one location to conclude they can't form in another.
Nor can you use the simple absence of them in one location to confirm that they can't form there.



Even on a infinite Plane we can only see in a circle. Optics can only see in the radius of a circle. The farthest we can see is straight ahead, anything left to right is pulled back.  And does not mean we live on a sphere.  If we lived on a sphere the horizon would curve from center left to right, but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000íplus and the Red bull Jump. What does he see out the opened hatch?





You do realize that the earth is huge.

If you were the size of a grain of sand, the earth's circumference would still be over 13 miles.

No, your Earth is little. You do realize the Globe Community believes a row boat allegedly goes over a curve just 3 miles out, right? And yet you claim it's huge. That make no sense. There is a 6' drop in curvature just 6 miles away and 216' just 18 miles out on your little 3959 mile radius Earth.

It looks flat and huge because it is. Observation is always good science.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #265 on: August 02, 2019, 08:15:10 PM »
If we lived on a sphere the horizon would curve from center left to right, but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000íplus and the Red bull Jump.
But on a sphere of 12740 km diameter just how much should the horizon curve from center left to right? That is the  important question.

And even Red Bull's 39 km is only 0.3% of the diameter of the earth so you tell us just how much.
You say "but it doesnít even at balloon heights of 100,000í plus and the Red bull Jump".

Can you honestly claim to see enough of the horizon in you Felix Baumgartner's photo to claim that the horizon is flat?

Of course you can't!
 
Compared with the other photo I posted with it, yes. And did you notice the horizon Felix sees is at eye level?

« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 08:20:30 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Stash

  • 3488
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #266 on: August 02, 2019, 08:19:48 PM »

However, you can't actually measure and verify the distance from Miami to Manhattan on a flat earth? Why not?

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rabinoz

  • 22909
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #267 on: August 02, 2019, 08:43:24 PM »

We do realize that the earth is huge.

If you were the size of a grain of sand, the earth's circumference would still be over 13 miles.
No, your Earth is little. You do realize the Globe Community believes a row boat allegedly goes over a curve just 3 miles out, right?
At 3 miles the row boat would be on the horizon. Would you care to show that it wouldn't be?
By 5 miles it would be pretty much hidden but also very very small.

Quote from: Plat Terra
And yet you claim it's huge. That make no sense. There is a 6' drop in curvature just 6 miles away and 216' just 18 miles out on your little 3959 mile radius Earth.
Yes it is huge and it makes perfect sense but you seem to have no sense of proportion! A 6' drop in 6 miles is only 0.019%!

Quote from: Plat Terra
It looks flat and huge because it is. Observation is always good science.
The horizon looks flat and huge because that is exactly as it should look on the Globe - how long before you can accept that simple fact?

Exactly like this:

The above photo was taken from about 2 m above water level and just left of centre there is a navigation beacon that is 2.6 km away.

If the earth were flat why is there no water visible past that beacon? Here is that beacon from a lower height and with a long telephoto lens:

Scarborough from 50 cm above water, Beacon 2.6 km away on Horizon
I took that photo and I know for certain that the navigation beacon in  photos is only 2.6 km from the beach.

And there's no sign of any mirage there!

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #268 on: August 02, 2019, 08:55:39 PM »
There is a 6' drop in curvature just 6 miles away and 216' just 18 miles
Stop dishonestly switching units.
How about we do it with the same units?
There is a 6 archaic unit drop in curvature over a distance of 31680 archaic units. As a percentage that is 0.02 %.
That is tiny.
Over a much large distance of 95040 archaic units there is only a drop of 216 archaic units. That is 0.2 %
Again, THAT IS TINY.

It looks flat and huge because it is. Observation is always good science.
No, the horizon is flat, as you would expect for a RE, but the Earth itself is not and does not look flat.

Observation is a key part of good science. Ignoring observations which show you are wrong is not. Dismissing them as fake is not.

Compared with the other photo I posted with it, yes. And did you notice the horizon Felix sees is at eye level?
Based upon what?
I see a line in a photo, with no indication of what angle the camera was pointed out.
Claiming it is at eye level is an outright lie.
Plenty of experiments have shown the horizon is not at eye level.
Here is a nice simple picture showing that, with an explanation of the apparatus:


If you would like to present some evidence that the horizon is always at eye level instead of the repeatedly observed below eye level, go ahead.
Just note that a picture without any reference doesn't help at all.
Is Polaris at eye level because it is in the centre?

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Sunset

  • 719
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #269 on: August 02, 2019, 10:09:18 PM »

[/quote]

No, your Earth is little. You do realize the Globe Community believes a row boat allegedly goes over a curve just 3 miles out, right? And yet you claim it's huge. That make no sense. There is a 6' drop in curvature just 6 miles away and 216' just 18 miles out on your little 3959 mile radius Earth.

It looks flat and huge because it is. Observation is always good science.
[/quote]

Mate, a row boat does go over the curve just 3 miles away. That's a fact. You are little, the row boat is little, and the distance to noticing the curve is little. You always notice the effect of the curve because earth is curved, and Earth is huge compared to us.

You're right that observation is always good science. You should practice what you preach.