When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

Top maps and elevations maps do not included alleged surface curvature. If they did, the center of the canal would be placed at 301' on the map in some way like your "underground plane connecting oceans" diagram, instead of just 85' above each ocean.

U.S. Geodesic Benchmark Key West, Florida

map
 
Not often seen or noticed U. S. Government marker on the grounds of the Monroe County Courthouse, Key West, FL. US Geodesic Survey Benchmark indicating official height of Key West above sea level. Key West is 14.324 feet above sea level

The Globe Community might consider accepting defeat when, for a start, you have proven the earth to be flat with a coherent model that has:

• An accurate map with the correct distances and directions adequate for long and short distance precise navigation.
  Note that ship and aircraft navigator have long used Globe derived maps to determine distance and directions.
  Many aircraft flights, including Kingsford Smith's crossing of the Pacific would have ended in disaster without accurate charts.
  
  
• A flat earth shape/topology that allows "circumnavigation" in any of the many directions that have already been performed.
  In particular there are numerous polar-circumnavigations via both poles and a number equatorial circumnavigation, including one within 2 degrees of the equator.
  
  
• An explanation for both the sun and moon appearing to rise top first from behind the horizon and appearing to set bottom first behind the horizon.
  
  
• An explanation for the sun and moon remaining almost exactly the same angular size from rising to setting and from wherever they are observed.
  
  
• Some way to predict the directions and times of sunrises and sunsets.
  
  
• A shape that allows the elevation of the Pole star, Polaris, above horizontal to be almost equal to the latitude from which the observation is made.
  
  
• An explanation for the constellations remaining the same shape and size from rising to setting and from wherever they are observed.
  
  
• How the stars in the Northern Hemisphere can appear to rotate anti-clockwise around what known as the North Celestial Pole (close to Polaris) while
  the stars in the Southern Hemisphere can appear to rotate clockwise around what known as the South Celestial Pole (close to the faint star Sigma Octantis).
  In other words the stars appear to rotate around two distinct axes of rotation.
  

• The "Wiki" claims that:
  Quote

  Basic Perspective
  A fact of basic perspective is that the line of the horizon is always at eye level with the observer. This will help us understand how viewing distance works, in addition to the sinking ship effect.
  
  Have you ever noticed that as you climb a mountain the line of the horizon seems to rise with you?

  But it is easy to show that the horizon does not rise to "eye-level" as elevation increases but falls below it be a quite predictable angle.

When you have actually proved the center of the Panama Canal is 301' above the both Coastlines....(which actually verifies curvature)

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 12:42:47 PM

Quote from: sokarul on July 30, 2019, 12:40:03 PM

Why is it so hard for you to grasp simple concepts?

 Why is it so hard for all of you to actually verify the alleged surface curvature of the Panama Canal?

You do understand now how a globe works with respect to mean sea level and height/altitude, right? And that on a globe Gatun Lake would NOT be under 131’ of sea water at 18 miles from the Coast, right?

I understand even more that the Globe Community cannot verify what they claim. And I understand they even ignore what could prove them right which is the act of verifying the alleged surface curvature of the Panama Canal.

I understand even more that the Globe Community cannot verify what they claim. And I understand they even ignore what could prove them right which is the act of verifying the alleged surface curvature of the Panama Canal.

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 03:25:23 PM

I understand even more that the Globe Community cannot verify what they claim. And I understand they even ignore what could prove them right which is the act of verifying the alleged surface curvature of the Panama Canal.

Why should anyone bother with one particular claim you make when you have proven that you have no understanding of how elevations are measured on the Globe?

And on top of that, you totally ignore all the other points raised.
Because the Globe is so huge observing "curvature" on the surface is not a trivial matter but a number of indirect effects have been pointed out but you totally ignore those.

The answer to your topic question "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" is obviously, NEVER!

There is no "RE Community" as such - simply reality.

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:26:03 PM

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

And that is irrelevant!

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:26:03 PM

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

You still clearly don't get what you are arguing against. Fixed it for you:

Quote from: Stash on July 30, 2019, 05:52:48 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:26:03 PM

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

You still clearly don't get what you are arguing against. Fixed it for you:

Now verify that in real time. I bet you can't. It's really easy to do!

I really think that before asking a question like "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" you need to learn a little about the Globe that you are trying to debunk.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 30, 2019, 05:47:48 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:26:03 PM

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

And that is irrelevant!

Why don't you prove you're not defeated. Verify the surface curvature of any landmass or Canal. You can do it! 

Top maps and elevations maps do not included alleged surface curvature. If they did, the center of the canal would be placed at 301' on the map in some way like your "underground plane connecting oceans" diagram, instead of just 85' above each ocean.

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:50:51 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 30, 2019, 05:47:48 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:26:03 PM

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

And that is irrelevant!

Why don't you prove you're not defeated. Verify the surface curvature of any landmass or Canal. You can do it! 

It is very easy to verify the surface curvature of the sea from a ship at sea. Just  ask a QMC. You can do it.😁

Here is a suggestion for you to prove that the earth is flat. You can do it. 😁
(1) Buy or rent a good camera with a good lens.
(2) Buy or rent a good telescope or telescopic lens for the camera of very high power.
(3) Buy an infrared filter and some infrared film for the camera.
(4) Go to the coast. Any place on Earth will do. A clear sunny day would be best.
(5) Take some pictures of one place taken from one place.
(6) For example a picture of the coast of Africa taken from the coast of South America will do.
(7) My own suggestion would be to go to Point Loma in San Diego and take some pictures of Diamond Head in Honolulu.
( 8 ) Post those pictures on this website. They certainly would prove there is no curvature of the earth and the earth is flat.
All of that equipment should be available at your local camera store and might not cost too much if you just rented it for just an hour or so.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 30, 2019, 02:33:00 PM

I really think that before asking a question like "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" you need to learn a little about the Globe that you are trying to debunk.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 30, 2019, 07:57:15 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 30, 2019, 02:33:00 PM

I really think that before asking a question like "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" you need to learn a little about the Globe that you are trying to debunk.

You are absolutely right! No one sees even the absolute obvious things. For example. The Bible is written - in plain text. God created the sun and the three moons. Three, not one!

And now there is only one. People used to see three moons in the sky. The question is - how many people believe now that there were three moons? You can even create a society who believe that there was always only one moon. Since we see her alone. But the truth is that there were three of them ... So with flat land. You do not see everything, but argue and fight with sticks. I feel sorry for you.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 30, 2019, 02:33:00 PM

I really think that before asking a question like "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" you need to learn a little about the Globe that you are trying to debunk.

You say "the truth is that there were three of them" but only if we accept that everything in the Indian or Slavo-Aryan Vedas as literally factual.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 31, 2019, 12:05:25 AM

You say "the truth is that there were three of them" but only if we accept that everything in the Indian or Slavo-Aryan Vedas as literally factual.

Thank you, I learnt something new today:  Ancient Russian Ynglistic Church of the Orthodox Old Believers.
 
A extremist cult which has been banned in Russia based on accusations of racism and other nice things.

Top Astronomers
Omar Khayyam 1048 – 1131
A poet, philosopher and scientist, Khayyam calculated the length of a year to the most accurate value ever, and showed how the intersections of conic sections can be utilized to yield geometric solutions of cubic equations.

Quote from: rabinoz on July 30, 2019, 03:38:07 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 03:25:23 PM

I understand even more that the Globe Community cannot verify what they claim. And I understand they even ignore what could prove them right which is the act of verifying the alleged surface curvature of the Panama Canal.

Why should anyone bother with one particular claim you make when you have proven that you have no understanding of how elevations are measured on the Globe?

And on top of that, you totally ignore all the other points raised.
Because the Globe is so huge observing "curvature" on the surface is not a trivial matter but a number of indirect effects have been pointed out but you totally ignore those.

The answer to your topic question "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" is obviously, NEVER!

There is no "RE Community" as such - simply reality.

No, your Globe is not very big. There is a 216' drop in curvature just 16 miles away and in any direction. And you wonder why the southern half of the state of Louisiana floods. Hell, just 3 miles away there is a 6' drop in curvature. Water always has a place to go on a sphere. You can't flood a ball, right?

That 216' of drop can be easily verified, but none of you can do it. If you could the Flat Earth debate would be over, but no, the fantasy has to continue without proof of a foundation.

Quote from: Stash on July 29, 2019, 11:37:42 PM

Here's a very exaggerated depiction of how the cross section of the canal would look. I'm not sure how this is different from what Marcarios has shown, but it tries to show the elevation of the topography of the canal in relation to the two oceans. It's how the globe model works:

Stash-
My many thanks to you for your drawing.
IMO this shows the best explanation of the true topography of the canal in relation to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
Possibly the only criticism is the land mass elevations are exaggerated in relation to the rest of the scale of the drawing.
Macarios has put a lot of work in trying to explain where the errors are in PlatTerra's drawings too.

I think this whole Panama Canal subject seems rather simple to anyone who has ever studied it in some of their history classes.
As I best remember we got into the details such as how the locks raised the ships from 0 sea level to 85 feet above sea level, etc., somewhere around the 7th Grade in Elementary School History Class. And even more so in College.
But it seems some of the  FE's have missed the boat on things that seem so simple to RE's.
It's my own "IMHO" but I think the real question of this topic should not be "When will the RE Community Accept Defeat ?" but should be "When will the FE Community Accept Defeat" ?

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 30, 2019, 10:30:27 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 29, 2019, 11:37:42 PM

Here's a very exaggerated depiction of how the cross section of the canal would look. I'm not sure how this is different from what Marcarios has shown, but it tries to show the elevation of the topography of the canal in relation to the two oceans. It's how the globe model works:

Stash-
My many thanks to you for your drawing.
IMO this shows the best explanation of the true topography of the canal in relation to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
Possibly the only criticism is the land mass elevations are exaggerated in relation to the rest of the scale of the drawing.
Macarios has put a lot of work in trying to explain where the errors are in PlatTerra's drawings too.

I think this whole Panama Canal subject seems rather simple to anyone who has ever studied it in some of their history classes.
As I best remember we got into the details such as how the locks raised the ships from 0 sea level to 85 feet above sea level, etc., somewhere around the 7th Grade in Elementary School History Class. And even more so in College.
But it seems some of the  FE's have missed the boat on things that seem so simple to RE's.
It's my own "IMHO" but I think the real question of this topic should not be "When will the RE Community Accept Defeat ?" but should be "When will the FE Community Accept Defeat" ?

This is the original one that wasn't faked with curve.

How do you lik0e the true topography now? Or do you still like the one that was faked?

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 30, 2019, 08:20:02 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:50:51 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on July 30, 2019, 05:47:48 PM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 30, 2019, 05:26:03 PM

Top maps and Elevations maps place the center of the Panama Canal at 85' above both oceans and not at 301"

And that is irrelevant!

Why don't you prove you're not defeated. Verify the surface curvature of any landmass or Canal. You can do it! 

It is very easy to verify the surface curvature of the sea from a ship at sea. Just  ask a QMC. You can do it.😁

Here is a suggestion for you to prove that the earth is flat. You can do it. 😁
(1) Buy or rent a good camera with a good lens.
(2) Buy or rent a good telescope or telescopic lens for the camera of very high power.
(3) Buy an infrared filter and some infrared film for the camera.
(4) Go to the coast. Any place on Earth will do. A clear sunny day would be best.
(5) Take some pictures of one place taken from one place.
(6) For example a picture of the coast of Africa taken from the coast of South America will do.
(7) My own suggestion would be to go to Point Loma in San Diego and take some pictures of Diamond Head in Honolulu.
( 8 ) Post those pictures on this website. They certainly would prove there is no curvature of the earth and the earth is flat.
All of that equipment should be available at your local camera store and might not cost too much if you just rented it for just an hour or so.

Don't make it too hard for the poor guy. I doubt that an infrared  camera could photograph that far.
But there are plenty of flat-earth videos (with good evidence for the Globe) showing a few hundred kilometres from aircraft.

Just ask for a photo of Alice Town, Bimini, the westernmost island of the Bahamas from Miami. It's only 83 km and should be easy to see if the earth is flat.

He could even climb the 250 m Panorama Tower in Miami if he needs to though that should be unnecessary if the earth is flat.

He should take a good level and see if the horizon really does rise to "eye-level" from that 250 m above MSL and not about 0.5° below.

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 31, 2019, 07:39:19 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 30, 2019, 10:30:27 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 29, 2019, 11:37:42 PM

Here's a very exaggerated depiction of how the cross section of the canal would look. I'm not sure how this is different from what Marcarios has shown, but it tries to show the elevation of the topography of the canal in relation to the two oceans. It's how the globe model works:

Stash-
My many thanks to you for your drawing.
IMO this shows the best explanation of the true topography of the canal in relation to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
Possibly the only criticism is the land mass elevations are exaggerated in relation to the rest of the scale of the drawing.
Macarios has put a lot of work in trying to explain where the errors are in PlatTerra's drawings too.

I think this whole Panama Canal subject seems rather simple to anyone who has ever studied it in some of their history classes.
As I best remember we got into the details such as how the locks raised the ships from 0 sea level to 85 feet above sea level, etc., somewhere around the 7th Grade in Elementary School History Class. And even more so in College.
But it seems some of the  FE's have missed the boat on things that seem so simple to RE's.
It's my own "IMHO" but I think the real question of this topic should not be "When will the RE Community Accept Defeat ?" but should be "When will the FE Community Accept Defeat" ?

This is the original one that wasn't faked with curve.

How do you lik0e the true topography now? Or do you still like the one that was faked?

No. The original drawing wasn't faked . It shows the curvature of the earth.
As mentioned previously , you really need to extend that drawing to show the entire circumference of the earth to get the big picture of just how small the distance of the Panama Canal is compared to the circumference of the globe.
The other drawing is flat and does not show the curvature.
There is a curvature.
The earth is a globe , not a flat disc.
The earth is so big the curvature of the earth involved in the Panama Canal looks almost like a straight line.

Not to mention any names but I think  some persons need to take me up on my suggestion and talk to a QMC about a flat Earth. LOL

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 31, 2019, 08:13:34 AM

Quote from: Plat Terra on July 31, 2019, 07:39:19 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on July 30, 2019, 10:30:27 AM

Quote from: Stash on July 29, 2019, 11:37:42 PM

Here's a very exaggerated depiction of how the cross section of the canal would look. I'm not sure how this is different from what Marcarios has shown, but it tries to show the elevation of the topography of the canal in relation to the two oceans. It's how the globe model works:

Stash-
My many thanks to you for your drawing.
IMO this shows the best explanation of the true topography of the canal in relation to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
Possibly the only criticism is the land mass elevations are exaggerated in relation to the rest of the scale of the drawing.
Macarios has put a lot of work in trying to explain where the errors are in PlatTerra's drawings too.

I think this whole Panama Canal subject seems rather simple to anyone who has ever studied it in some of their history classes.
As I best remember we got into the details such as how the locks raised the ships from 0 sea level to 85 feet above sea level, etc., somewhere around the 7th Grade in Elementary School History Class. And even more so in College.
But it seems some of the  FE's have missed the boat on things that seem so simple to RE's.
It's my own "IMHO" but I think the real question of this topic should not be "When will the RE Community Accept Defeat ?" but should be "When will the FE Community Accept Defeat" ?

This is the original one that wasn't faked with curve.

How do you lik0e the true topography now? Or do you still like the one that was faked?

No. The original drawing wasn't faked . It shows the curvature of the earth.
As mentioned previously , you really need to extend that drawing to show the entire circumference of the earth to get the big picture of just how small the distance of the Panama Canal is compared to the circumference of the globe.
The other drawing is flat and does not show the curvature.
There is a curvature.
The earth is a globe , not a flat disc.
The earth is so big the curvature of the earth involved in the Panama Canal looks almost like a straight line.

Not to mention any names but I think  some persons need to take me up on my suggestion and talk to a QMC about a flat Earth. LOL

But none of you have actually verified surface curvature of a landmass or canal. When you have I then will compare as you ask.