When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #570 on: August 09, 2019, 03:39:57 PM »
Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.

What are Flat Earth Mechanics?  I've never seen a topic defining them.  Can you please provide?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #571 on: August 09, 2019, 04:21:05 PM »
What should be hidden is 693'.
So why lie and claim over 1800 archaic units should be hidden before?

Also, running the numbers (taking your 260" to be 260') only gives 680 archaic units hidden.
But as I pointed out earlier, that is without taking refraction into consideration.

Meanwhile, if Earth was flat, what should be hidden is 0.

The Sears tower is 1450'. What is seen of the City in the video is a lot more than half the City.
Based upon what?

Accept defeat!
Why accept defeat when you have provided evidence that directly refutes a FE?
The best you can get is saying Earth is slightly larger than people say.

If you want us to accept defeat you will need to show a problem with the RE model, which you are yet to do.

Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?
If you want the ancient FE model, were the very distant sun circles Earth, going BELOW Earth, then it doesn't.
However if you want a modern FE model where the sun just circles above Earth, then the distance changes dramatically.
For example, when the sun is directly overhead it is claimed to be 5000 km above.
But then when setting it is setting over a place 10 000 km away (using RE distances, further with FE distances).
That has more than doubled the distance to the sun and thus the sun should shrink to less than half its size.

As you wont give precise details, lets just use the commonly used NP centred AEP FE model?

You want someone at 45 degrees north on the equinox, well as you pointed out the sun is about 5000 km above someone at the equator.
Meanwhile, someone at 45 degrees north is 5000 km away from that point on the equator, making the sun roughly 7071 km away, or about sqrt(2) times the distance from someone at the equator, so the sun should be significantly smaller for the person at 45 degrees north.
But that is changing between locations not time.
Lets go to sunset.
Now the sun is above a point on the equator, with a difference of 90 degrees latitude.
From the FE map, this means the sub-solar point is now sqrt(5000^2+10000^2) km away or ~11200 km away.
This puts the sun 12247 km away, or 1.73 times the distance it was at midday.
That means it should be roughly 1.73 times bigger at midday than it is at sunset.

The roughly constant angular size of the sun only makes sense with a very distant sun, much more distant than the size of Earth, such that regardless of where you are on Earth, the distance to it is roughly the same, and does not change throughout the day (this last part seems less connected, but the issue is if it was close to Earth and changed position, then it could only remain roughly the same distance away from one location, not all of Earth). But this destroys the FE model, as if that was the case the sun would appear in the same direction to everyone.
This is one of the ancient FE models where there was just a single time zone and the sun set by going below Earth

In response to the fairy tales you accept and teach.
Yes, in response to your fairy tales we accept reality and teach.

Yes, observation is good, but FEers reject it.
A simple daily observation is the rising and setting of the sun and countless stars. This refutes the FE model.
So you need to reject direct observations.

While less direct another example of observations is photos, including those from space, where simple observation shows Earth is round.
A more direct version of this is using the moon as the "camera" to take a picture of Earth's shadow during a solar eclipse, which also shows Earth is round.
Then there is also direct observation of water obscuring the view to an object which is above the water from a location which is above the water.

These direct observations show Earth is round.

The other important thing to note is that observation is limited.
For example, by observing the apparent angular position, you are only measuring relative position, not which is moving.
If you were sitting on a merry go round, and you claimed that you were stationary with Earth rotation around the axis of the merry go round, people would think you are crazy.
But that is the same kind of observation as Earth and the stars.
Is Earth stationary with the celestial objects moving around? Are the celestial objects stationary with Earth rotating? Or some combination of the celestial objects moving while Earth is also rotating?
We can rule out the second option due to the differential motion.
The sun and moon move relative to each other and relative to the stars. So they can't all be stationary, but we can focus on some of them at least.
Is Earth stationary with the moon moving around in a chaotic path (with no explanation at all), or is Earth rotating, with the moon following a much simpler path?

So observation only gets you so far. Instead you need to think about those observations and what makes more sense.

The observations work with both HC and GC, as all GC requires is manipulating a HC solar system to keep Earth fixed.
HC won because unlike GC, it made sense. It had explanatory power and didn't require the magic to keep Earth fixed.

But don't worry, there is also other observations to support a rotating Earth, that of Focault's pendulum large scale weather systems, laser ring gyroscopes and the like.

But hey, you were quite close with one point.
Humans don't sense motion. There is no sense for motion.
What we can sense is our body transmitting a force across us.

The absence of a sense we do not have is not evidence that we are stationary.

And yes, we know how easy it is for people to make up a model of Earth which does not match reality at all and have those ignorant of reality and how reality and such a model would work getting conned into it. Look at you, accepting a FE even though it doesn't match reality at all.

So as a summary:
FE does not match observation at all. Even simple observations directly contradict FE models, with mountains of magic needing to be thrown in.

Meanwhile RE does match observation, from the horizon obscuring distant objects (or their lower portion), to the apparent motion of the celestial objects.

So why should RE accept defeat, when all the evidence points to RE?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #572 on: August 09, 2019, 04:42:46 PM »
As stated before,


By the way I'm waiting for an answer for:

Either prove that "Newton and others falsified the moon's rotation" or admit that you are making up fairy tales again.

I didn't forget.

In response to the fairy tales you accept and teach.


The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #573 on: August 09, 2019, 04:44:56 PM »
As stated before,


By the way I'm waiting for an answer for:

Either prove that "Newton and others falsified the moon's rotation" or admit that you are making up fairy tales again.

I didn't forget.

In response to the fairy tales you accept and teach.



Are you saying that an object in motion doesn't stay in motion?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #574 on: August 09, 2019, 05:12:05 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.
So if you do "have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics" explain why the sun's and moon's angular size change must change on the flat earth.

Hint, it has something to do with perspective.

Did you fabricate this myth? That's about like saying," If Earth is Flat it must have an edge. Spread the myth and make them show you the edge if Earth is Flat"

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67791.msg1813098#msg1813098
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 05:27:51 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #575 on: August 09, 2019, 05:13:23 PM »
I didn't forget.

In response to the fairy tales you accept and teach.
Neither did we.
You had already posted that and already torn to shreds.

Again, when you sit on a merry go round do you claim the merry go round is stationary with Earth spinning around you?

Or do you accept that all observing relative motion does is tell you there is relative motion?
These observations of relative motion cannot tell which is moving.

Humans lack a sense for detecting motion, likely because it is physically impossible as there is no absolute linear motion.
Instead what we feel is our body transferring force, such as when a seat pushes you forwards in a car.
So the absence of a feeling we don't have is proof of nothing.

Meanwhile, instruments can easily measure the rotation of Earth.

Observation shows that Earth is round and rotating.

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Stash

  • 4050
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #576 on: August 09, 2019, 05:51:50 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.
So if you do "have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics" explain why the sun's and moon's angular size change must change on the flat earth.

Hint, it has something to do with perspective.

Did you fabricate this myth? That's about like saying," If Earth is Flat it must have an edge. Spread the myth and make them show you the edge if Earth is Flat"

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67791.msg1813098#msg1813098

It's hard to know what myth is to you versus reality as you never state your beliefs. For starters why not answer the questions we've all been asking you:

So, explain your sun:
How far away is it? You said it's altitude is approximately 3200 miles, if I'm not mistaken.
Where is it right now? As in how far away from you is it horizontally speaking, preferably at your sunset.
Where does it go at night?

Super simple questions anyone could answer without having to go into some mysterious FE mechanics no one has ever heard of.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Plat Terra

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  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #577 on: August 09, 2019, 05:54:36 PM »
I didn't forget.

In response to the fairy tales you accept and teach.

Humans lack a sense for detecting motion, likely because it is physically impossible as there is no absolute linear motion.
Instead what we feel is our body transferring force, such as when a seat pushes you forwards in a car.
So the absence of a feeling we don't have is proof of nothing.


Please continue. I would love to learn more on your thoughts pertaining to "Humans lack a sense for detecting motion"

Please continue.....
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #578 on: August 09, 2019, 06:08:13 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.
So if you do "have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics" explain why the sun's and moon's angular size change must change on the flat earth.

Hint, it has something to do with perspective.

Did you fabricate this myth? That's about like saying," If Earth is Flat it must have an edge. Spread the myth and make them show you the edge if Earth is Flat"

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67791.msg1813098#msg1813098

It's hard to know what myth is to you versus reality as you never state your beliefs. For starters why not answer the questions we've all been asking you:

So, explain your sun:
How far away is it? You said it's altitude is approximately 3200 miles, if I'm not mistaken.
Where is it right now? As in how far away from you is it horizontally speaking, preferably at your sunset.
Where does it go at night?

Super simple questions anyone could answer without having to go into some mysterious FE mechanics no one has ever heard of.
It's more important for the Globe Community to prove the foundation of their theory and not avoid and ignore it. They have a responsibility to make good on the claims of Earth is a sphere by actually verifying the alleged surface curvature of Earth's landmass.  You have to get your proprieties right!  That's what matters.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #579 on: August 09, 2019, 06:12:17 PM »
Please continue. I would love to learn more on your thoughts pertaining to "Humans lack a sense for detecting motion"
Then go read what I said before, and try and actually respond to it.
What humans are capable of feeling is a force being transmitted by their body.
When you drive along in a car going at a constant speed down a smooth road, you don't feel it, even though you are moving.
When you sit on a merry go round rotating around slowly, you don't feel it, even though you are moving.

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Stash

  • 4050
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #580 on: August 09, 2019, 06:35:53 PM »
Tie a basketball on a string, and swing it around you. does it's angular size change? No.

Roll a basketball down the street. Does it's angular size change? Yes.

Sorry, that one is not going to stick. You don't have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics.
So if you do "have a clue about Flat Earth Mechanics" explain why the sun's and moon's angular size change must change on the flat earth.

Hint, it has something to do with perspective.

Did you fabricate this myth? That's about like saying," If Earth is Flat it must have an edge. Spread the myth and make them show you the edge if Earth is Flat"

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67791.msg1813098#msg1813098

It's hard to know what myth is to you versus reality as you never state your beliefs. For starters why not answer the questions we've all been asking you:

So, explain your sun:
How far away is it? You said it's altitude is approximately 3200 miles, if I'm not mistaken.
Where is it right now? As in how far away from you is it horizontally speaking, preferably at your sunset.
Where does it go at night?

Super simple questions anyone could answer without having to go into some mysterious FE mechanics no one has ever heard of.
It's more important for the Globe Community to prove the foundation of their theory and not avoid and ignore it. They have a responsibility to make good on the claims of Earth is a sphere by actually verifying the alleged surface curvature of Earth's landmass.  You have to get your proprieties right!  That's what matters.

I understood little to nothing of what your little mini-rant was.

As for "make good on the claims of Earth is a sphere by actually verifying the alleged surface curvature of Earth's landmass." You asked about the curvature of Florida before. I showed you the Florida Board of Surveyors who perform geodetic surveys of, well, Florida. Using, among other tools, orthometric leveling and GPS all referencing the geoid. Aka, the sphere. I asked you to call them to learn more. Maybe let them know they are wasting their time. Have you?

Now, why dodge the simplest of questions, repeatedly? Why?

Explain your sun:
How far away is it? You said it's altitude is approximately 3200 miles, if I'm not mistaken.
Where is it right now? As in how far away from you is it horizontally speaking, preferably at your sunset.
Where does it go at night?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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rabinoz

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #581 on: August 09, 2019, 07:14:34 PM »
It's more important for the Globe Community to prove the foundation of their theory and not avoid and ignore it. They have a responsibility to make good on the claims of Earth is a sphere by actually verifying the alleged surface curvature of Earth's landmass.  You have to get your proprieties right!  That's what matters.
You asked the question, "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" so you do not get to set the conditions under which we might "Accept Defeat"!

Get the message, Steve!

There is far more evidence for the Globe that simply seeing or even measuring "curvature" but that curvature has been measured numerous times.
One of the earliest, from about 1000 AD, is described in: Al-Biruni's Classic Experiment: How to Calculate the Radius of the Earth.
A "short version" can be found in: Al-Biruniís Method to Determine the Radius of the Earth, summarised in:



Al-Biruni is regarded as the "father of Geodesy" and geodetic surveyors have been effectively measuring the curvature of the earth ever since.
It is what they do in preparing "plane drawings" (ie drawings showing elevations above the local "Mean Sea Level") before large projects such as the Suez or Panama canals.

Though you will find that recently Geodetic Surveyors base the locations on GNSS measurements - it's much easier and more accurate than climbing massive towers to see long distances over the curve of the earth.

Frightening things like these:
          
Part was, of course to get above the terrain but the height was also necessary see the required distances over the curve.

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Plat Terra

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  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #582 on: August 09, 2019, 09:02:48 PM »
It's more important for the Globe Community to prove the foundation of their theory and not avoid and ignore it. They have a responsibility to make good on the claims of Earth is a sphere by actually verifying the alleged surface curvature of Earth's landmass.  You have to get your proprieties right!  That's what matters.
You asked the question, "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?" so you do not get to set the conditions under which we might "Accept Defeat"!

Get the message, Steve!

There is far more evidence for the Globe that simply seeing or even measuring "curvature" but that curvature has been measured numerous times.
One of the earliest, from about 1000 AD, is described in: Al-Biruni's Classic Experiment: How to Calculate the Radius of the Earth.
A "short version" can be found in: Al-Biruniís Method to Determine the Radius of the Earth, summarised in:



Al-Biruni is regarded as the "father of Geodesy" and geodetic surveyors have been effectively measuring the curvature of the earth ever since.
It is what they do in preparing "plane drawings" (ie drawings showing elevations above the local "Mean Sea Level") before large projects such as the Suez or Panama canals.

Though you will find that recently Geodetic Surveyors base the locations on GNSS measurements - it's much easier and more accurate than climbing massive towers to see long distances over the curve of the earth.

Frightening things like these:
          
Part was, of course to get above the terrain but the height was also necessary see the required distances over the curve.

I see you have that thinking cap on again ole buddy. But what I want to know is why you fabricated that myth I wrote about. When will you address that?

And I see you have more fabricated Geo what ever nonsense to continue the Great Hoax for the gullible.

BTW, the history of GPS, "Ground Position Systems" can be found in the historical videos below. But it now has a new name "Satellites" to deceive the masses.

There are no satellites (as taught) in orbit, GPS = LORAN (PART 1)



There are no satellites (as taught) in orbit, GPS = LORAN (PART 2)



There are no satellites in orbit, (As Taught) GPS = LORAN (PART 3)



It's now been all updated with digital technology and works just fine without your fake satellites, along with underground cables.But keep believing the myth!



You may not accept defeat, but many are. And that's what matters!


« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 09:17:12 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #583 on: August 09, 2019, 10:03:31 PM »
But what I want to know is why you fabricated that myth I wrote about. When will you address that?
You are the one fabricating myths here, not us.
You also seem to avoid addressing lots of things. Why is that?

BTW, the history of GPS, "Ground Position Systems"
Who cares about a ficticious GPS?
Why not focus on the real GPS, i.e. the global positioning system.

But it now has a new name "Satellites" to deceive the masses.
No, a different technology has a different name.
The LORAN system had quite limited range and coverage.

GPS doesn't have that limitation, because it uses a network of satellites which can effectively cover the globe (excluding around the poles, where the coverage is much worse).

More importantly, all the information on it is out in the open. It simply wouldn't work as fake satellites like you need it to.

You may not accept defeat, but many are. And that's what matters!
No, not many are.
And no, that doesn't matter in the slightest.
What matters is the truth and what model is supported by evidence.

All the evidence points to a RE, none points to a FE.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #584 on: August 09, 2019, 10:04:51 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?

The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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kopfverderber

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #585 on: August 09, 2019, 10:08:56 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?

What is the topic of this thread now? Are you using it as a blog where you post all your FE memes?
You must gather your party before venturing forth

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #586 on: August 09, 2019, 10:09:48 PM »
But what I want to know is why you fabricated that myth I wrote about. When will you address that?
You are the one fabricating myths here, not us.
You also seem to avoid addressing lots of things. Why is that?

BTW, the history of GPS, "Ground Position Systems"
Who cares about a ficticious GPS?
Why not focus on the real GPS, i.e. the global positioning system.

But it now has a new name "Satellites" to deceive the masses.
No, a different technology has a different name.
The LORAN system had quite limited range and coverage.

GPS doesn't have that limitation, because it uses a network of satellites which can effectively cover the globe (excluding around the poles, where the coverage is much worse).

More importantly, all the information on it is out in the open. It simply wouldn't work as fake satellites like you need it to.

You may not accept defeat, but many are. And that's what matters!
No, not many are.
And no, that doesn't matter in the slightest.
What matters is the truth and what model is supported by evidence.

All the evidence points to a RE, none points to a FE.

You should check out my post here. You might like it?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82724.msg2194181#msg2194181
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Macarios

  • 1925
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #587 on: August 09, 2019, 10:10:28 PM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

Because the distance from the observer is changing greatly during the day.

Let's say you are in Mineapolis, 45 degrees north, 3110 miles away from the Equator.

For equinoctial solar noon when the Sun is above the Equator you can see it due south 45 degrees above the horizon.
You have simple isoceles right triangle Sun-Equator-Mineapolis that shows the sun 3110 miles above the Equator and 4398 miles away from you.
The Sun's angular diameter is 0.5 degrees, and to have that the required Sun radius has to be R = tan(0.25) * 4398 = 19 miles.
So, Sun's diameter has to be 38 miles.
At the same moment another observer at the Equator would have the Sun directly over head.
The angular diameter of the Sun from there should be 2 * ArcTan(19 / 3110) = 0.7 degrees.
But it is not, it is still 0.5 degrees.

Six hours later the Sun is 90 degrees west from where it was at solar noon.
Ground distance from Mineapolis grew from 3110 to 5387 miles, making direct line distance to be
SQRT(31102 + 53872) = 6220 miles.
The Sun with radius of 19 miles should have angular diameter of 2 * ArcTan(19 / 6220) = 0.35 degrees.
That's the chabge from 0.5 to 0.35 in 6 hours.
In reality you don't have that change.

From that other observer at the Equator, ground distance was increased from zero to 6220 miles,
which makes the direct line distance increased from 3110 to 6954 miles.
At the new distance the Sun with radius of 19 miles should have the angular diameter of
2 * ArcTan(19 / 6954) = 0.31 degrees.
That's the change from 0.7 to 0.31 in six hours.
Again, in reality you don't have that change.

In reality the Sun's angular diameter, seen from anywhere on Earth, is still those 0.5 degrees.


I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #588 on: August 09, 2019, 10:11:55 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?

What is the topic of this thread now? Are you using it as a blog where you post all your FE memes?

I post related subjects pertaining to the things discussed in the thread.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #589 on: August 09, 2019, 10:12:06 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?
I would say the distance is quite unclear, but it looks like far more than a few hundred feet.
But that is much more like the "horizon" that would be expected for a FE.
Notice how there is no clear horizon and instead it just fades to a blur?
That is what would be expected for a a FE. No clear divide, just the atmosphere scattering and absorbing more and more light until the ground and sky fade to a blur, becoming indistinguishable from one another.
It's distance would not change with height and you wouldn't see objects beyond it.

But instead, outside of these rare weather conditions the horizon is typically quite sharp, with its distance dependent upon your altitude, and you still being able to see objects beyond it.

So once again, FE doesn't match reality, but RE does.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #590 on: August 09, 2019, 10:16:15 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?

But that is much more like the "horizon" that would be expected for a FE.

That is what would be expected for a a FE. No clear divide, just the atmosphere scattering and absorbing more and more light until the ground and sky fade to a blur, becoming indistinguishable from one another.

So once again, FE doesn't match reality, but RE does.

It's a picture taken from the real world, a Flat earth.

Thanks!
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Macarios

  • 1925
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #591 on: August 09, 2019, 10:16:27 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?



Ok, you are at the height of 10 meters and the distance to your horizon is limited by air to be 11.29 kilometers away.
In that case how can you see only tops (and not bottoms) of those mountains 125 kilometers behind that horizon.
Why air doesn't limit that view?
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #592 on: August 09, 2019, 10:31:20 PM »
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

Because the distance from the observer is changing greatly during the day.

Let's say you are in Mineapolis, 45 degrees north, 3110 miles away from the Equator.

For equinoctial solar noon when the Sun is above the Equator you can see it due south 45 degrees above the horizon.
You have simple isoceles right triangle Sun-Equator-Mineapolis that shows the sun 3110 miles above the Equator and 4398 miles away from you.
The Sun's angular diameter is 0.5 degrees, and to have that the required Sun radius has to be R = tan(0.25) * 4398 = 19 miles.
So, Sun's diameter has to be 38 miles.
At the same moment another observer at the Equator would have the Sun directly over head.
The angular diameter of the Sun from there should be 2 * ArcTan(19 / 3110) = 0.7 degrees.
But it is not, it is still 0.5 degrees.

Six hours later the Sun is 90 degrees west from where it was at solar noon.
Ground distance from Mineapolis grew from 3110 to 5387 miles, making direct line distance to be
SQRT(31102 + 53872) = 6220 miles.
The Sun with radius of 19 miles should have angular diameter of 2 * ArcTan(19 / 6220) = 0.35 degrees.
That's the chabge from 0.5 to 0.35 in 6 hours.
In reality you don't have that change.

From that other observer at the Equator, ground distance was increased from zero to 6220 miles,
which makes the direct line distance increased from 3110 to 6954 miles.
At the new distance the Sun with radius of 19 miles should have the angular diameter of
2 * ArcTan(19 / 6954) = 0.31 degrees.
That's the change from 0.7 to 0.31 in six hours.
Again, in reality you don't have that change.

In reality the Sun's angular diameter, seen from anywhere on Earth, is still those 0.5 degrees.




I see you have not included the flat Earth model in your specs. So it's just a myth.

And you can calculate all that but you are incapable of verifying (calculate) the actually (alleged) curvature (through calculation) of any landmass or canal?  Do the right thing and prove the foundation of your theory.

Whats the actually verified surface (calculated) curvature over Florida's surface, length and width? You can't tell me, right? Give up!
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #593 on: August 09, 2019, 10:34:30 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?



Ok, you are at the height of 10 meters and the distance to your horizon is limited by air to be 11.29 kilometers away.
In that case how can you see only tops (and not bottoms) of those mountains 125 kilometers behind that horizon.
Why air doesn't limit that view?

Density is lower.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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kopfverderber

  • 440
  • Globularist
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #594 on: August 09, 2019, 10:54:11 PM »
I see you have not included the flat Earth model in your specs. So it's just a myth.

And you can calculate all that but you are incapable of verifying (calculate) the actually (alleged) curvature (through calculation) of any landmass or canal?  Do the right thing and prove the foundation of your theory.

Whats the actually verified surface (calculated) curvature over Florida's surface, length and width? You can't tell me, right? Give up!

This is RE on December 22nd 2019 at  22:00 UTC


Can you provide a similar image with sun position and daylight limits on FE map for 22.12.2019? What will be the height of the sun at 22.12.2019?

If you can't answer simple questions like where is the sun, what is the shape of the sun or where is the sun setting and rising at a given time, I'll have to conclude that the FE model you keep talking about doesn't exist. You just have a general idea that the earth is flat and the sun hovers over it and that's it.

You must gather your party before venturing forth

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Macarios

  • 1925
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #595 on: August 09, 2019, 10:55:46 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?



Ok, you are at the height of 10 meters and the distance to your horizon is limited by air to be 11.29 kilometers away.
In that case how can you see only tops (and not bottoms) of those mountains 125 kilometers behind that horizon.
Why air doesn't limit that view?

Density is lower.

Density is lower towards 125 kilometers than towards 11 kilometers?
Towards those 125 kilometers you have eleven times more air than towards those 11 kilometers.
Is the air twelve times denser down there? :)
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #596 on: August 09, 2019, 11:00:14 PM »
OMG, the horizon is just a few hundred feet away (bottom picture) and it's not at eye level. What is a Flat Earther to do?



Ok, you are at the height of 10 meters and the distance to your horizon is limited by air to be 11.29 kilometers away.
In that case how can you see only tops (and not bottoms) of those mountains 125 kilometers behind that horizon.
Why air doesn't limit that view?

Density is lower.

Density is lower towards 125 kilometers than towards 11 kilometers?
Towards those 125 kilometers you have eleven times more air than towards those 11 kilometers.
Is the air twelve times denser down there? :)

Something is blocking the true horizon. Paint is any way you like. Even viewing the horizon at high altitudes density will block the true horizon making it appear lower.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 11:08:07 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #597 on: August 09, 2019, 11:04:42 PM »
I see you have not included the flat Earth model in your specs. So it's just a myth.

And you can calculate all that but you are incapable of verifying (calculate) the actually (alleged) curvature (through calculation) of any landmass or canal?  Do the right thing and prove the foundation of your theory.

Whats the actually verified surface (calculated) curvature over Florida's surface, length and width? You can't tell me, right? Give up!

This is RE on December 22nd 2019 at  22:00 UTC


Can you provide a similar image with sun position and daylight limits on FE map for 22.12.2019? What will be the height of the sun at 22.12.2019?

If you can't answer simple questions like where is the sun, what is the shape of the sun or where is the sun setting and rising at a given time, I'll have to conclude that the FE model you keep talking about doesn't exist. You just have a general idea that the earth is flat and the sun hovers over it and that's it.

What does that have to do with what you quoted me on? Are you ignoring what I wrote and going down a bunny trail?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #598 on: August 09, 2019, 11:11:28 PM »
It's a picture taken from the real world, a Flat earth.
No, the real world is round, all the evidence indicates.

Again if Earth was flat, EVERY horizon would look like that, with the ground and sky fading to a blur, with the exception being a horizon made from mountains that are above you.
You would not get a nice sharp horizon.

I see you have not included the flat Earth model in your specs.
I did, showing quite clearly that the FE model demands a massive change in the apparent size of the sun, and you just ignored it.
I wonder why?

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kopfverderber

  • 440
  • Globularist
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #599 on: August 09, 2019, 11:12:52 PM »
What does that have to do with what you quoted me on? Are you ignoring what I wrote and going down a bunny trail?

This is what you asked isn't it?
Why does the Sun's angular size have to change  greatly on a Plane Earth?

In order to answer that question I need to know where do you think the sun is at given time and what does you FE map look like. We need to know what your FE model is. Otherwise you keep saying this:
I see you have not included the flat Earth model in your specs. So it's just a myth.

This is RE on December 22nd 2019 at  22:00 UTC:



Can you provide a similar image with sun position and daylight limits on FE map for 22.12.2019? What will be the height of the sun on  22.12.2019?

If you can't answer simple questions like where is the sun, what is the shape of the sun or where is the sun setting and rising at a given time, I'll have to conclude that the FE model you keep talking about doesn't exist. You just have a general idea that the earth is flat and the sun hovers over it and that's it.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 11:28:26 PM by kopfverderber »
You must gather your party before venturing forth