When will RE Community Accept Defeat?

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rabinoz

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #510 on: August 08, 2019, 07:09:50 PM »
It doesn't matter, it's a weather phenomenon.
No, it does matter but it does not happen everywhere because it needs a fairly isolated mountain with a suitable layer of clouds and it is commonly seen at around the same period each year.

But there are upward slanting shadows on and caused by many mountains:

Sunsets of Mt Everest. The shadows from lower mountains creep up to obscure higher mountains. The sun is not reflecting up off of the sea, or anything, for example. It canít, there are mountains in the way.  No matter how far away the sun gets it canít cast a shadow upward to the top of the highest mountain in the world unless it is moving Ďdownwardí. In other words, setting behind a horizon.

A 3000 mile high FE sun can't cast a shadow upward on the mountains no matter how far away it gets; it never breaks the horizontal plane of the lower peak to do so:



Everest Sunset Timelapse by Andrew March



Time Lapse Sunset over Everest by Rick Parkin

And explain this on a flat earth!
And this is worth a look. It's video on Vimeo:

This is the view of the 2/20/08 Lunar Eclipse as seen from Mauna Kea on the Big Island of Hawaii.
We missed most of the eclipse because of how far west Hawaii is.
What we did get to see rose at sunset, within the shadow of Mauna Kea, which was a truly beautiful sight.
I hope I share a bit of that with you in this time lapse.

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rabinoz

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #511 on: August 08, 2019, 07:17:05 PM »
The sun sets EVERY DAY, EVERYWHERE! (between the Arctic/Antarctic circles). The sun rises every day, from essentially the opposite direction. Both events happen at highly predictable times that vary by ~24 hours depending on your position on the earth.

Does your "weather phenomenon" or "bendy light" explain this?

No more questions from you, they have all been answered. It's time for YOU to answer some!
I really don't have time to teach you about the Suns mechanics over our Flat Earth. You might want to ask a few others if they have the time. Good luck.
In other words, as with every question asked, you do not know.

But remember in this thread you are asking the question "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?".

If you expect this so-called "RE Community" to "Accept Defeat" the onus is on YOU to convince us!

Yet, every time you are asked a question you deflect with some excuse as weak as "I really don't have time to teach you".

So as Here to laugh at you says No more questions from you, they have all been answered. It's time for YOU to answer some!

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Shifter

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #512 on: August 08, 2019, 07:28:40 PM »
The sun sets EVERY DAY, EVERYWHERE! (between the Arctic/Antarctic circles). The sun rises every day, from essentially the opposite direction. Both events happen at highly predictable times that vary by ~24 hours depending on your position on the earth.

Does your "weather phenomenon" or "bendy light" explain this?

No more questions from you, they have all been answered. It's time for YOU to answer some!
I really don't have time to teach you about the Suns mechanics over our Flat Earth. You might want to ask a few others if they have the time. Good luck.
In other words, as with every question asked, you do not know.

But remember in this thread you are asking the question "When will RE Community Accept Defeat?".

If you expect this so-called "RE Community" to "Accept Defeat" the onus is on YOU to convince us!

Yet, every time you are asked a question you deflect with some excuse as weak as "I really don't have time to teach you".

So as Here to laugh at you says No more questions from you, they have all been answered. It's time for YOU to answer some!

You have yet to give any definitive answers that go beyond reasonable doubt rab. I bet you were the sort of kid that drew the Sun as yellow. Have you ever seen a ski field that looked like it was pissed on? Because that's what a yellow star would make snow look like.

You pretend to be answer man but your answers are usually always harmful in that they sway people from the truth. Actual knowledge. You regurgitate a lot of BS and the sad thing is, you probably believe it yourself. You're indoctrinated. You attack anyone with even a desire for the truth as if you are a mindless religious zealot. Give it a rest.


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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #513 on: August 08, 2019, 07:30:35 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.

The highest dune at Warren Dune State Park is 260". What should be hidden is 693'. The Sears tower is 1450'. What is seen of the City in the video is a lot more than half the City. It's time for the Globe Community to recalculate Earth's curvature.   Eratosthenes was wrong.




« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 07:48:09 AM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #514 on: August 08, 2019, 07:43:37 PM »
It doesn't matter, it's a weather phenomenon.
No, it does matter but it does not happen everywhere because it needs a fairly isolated mountain with a suitable layer of clouds and it is commonly seen at around the same period each year.

But there are upward slanting shadows on and caused by many mountains:

Sunsets of Mt Everest. The shadows from lower mountains creep up to obscure higher mountains. The sun is not reflecting up off of the sea, or anything, for example. It canít, there are mountains in the way.  No matter how far away the sun gets it canít cast a shadow upward to the top of the highest mountain in the world unless it is moving Ďdownwardí. In other words, setting behind a horizon.

A 3000 mile high FE sun can't cast a shadow upward on the mountains no matter how far away it gets; it never breaks the horizontal plane of the lower peak to do so:






Nice Sun and MT Everest illustration.

Now add 3 to 4 thousand miles of atmosphere on a plane in between Sunset and the viewer on the MT. That would be more realistic.

Have you ever used Fog Lights? And Why?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Stash

  • 3832
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #515 on: August 08, 2019, 07:45:02 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.

So you have admitted defeat on where your Sun is? How it sets and rises everyday and determines time, which I assume you follow like the rest of us. And have moved back to your other meme, the Chicago skyline. You claim atmospheric effects on bendy light, shadows cast upward, yet refuse the atmospheric explanations, (which are well documented, your bendy light is not) when it comes to the Chicago skyline. Curious.

And the real question about the Chicago skyline is not "why do we see it", but "why don't we see all of it"?

And you still have the meme wrong, 1802' is not correct. You admitted that, now change it.

So, where is your Sun?

And while you're at it, did you contact the Florida surveyors board to get the geodetic information you were looking for I posted before? You know, the info about measuring curvature and such. Let me know what they have to say when you talk to them.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Stash

  • 3832
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #516 on: August 08, 2019, 07:47:34 PM »
It doesn't matter, it's a weather phenomenon.
No, it does matter but it does not happen everywhere because it needs a fairly isolated mountain with a suitable layer of clouds and it is commonly seen at around the same period each year.

But there are upward slanting shadows on and caused by many mountains:

Sunsets of Mt Everest. The shadows from lower mountains creep up to obscure higher mountains. The sun is not reflecting up off of the sea, or anything, for example. It canít, there are mountains in the way.  No matter how far away the sun gets it canít cast a shadow upward to the top of the highest mountain in the world unless it is moving Ďdownwardí. In other words, setting behind a horizon.

A 3000 mile high FE sun can't cast a shadow upward on the mountains no matter how far away it gets; it never breaks the horizontal plane of the lower peak to do so:






Nice Sun and MT Everest illustration.

Now add 3 to 4 thousand miles of atmosphere on a plane in between Sunset and the viewer on the MT. That would be more realistic.

Have you ever used Fog Lights? And Why?

Where did you come up with 3-4 thousand miles? Vertically? Horizontally? Where are you getting these figures from? Where is your Sun? Do you know where it is?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #517 on: August 08, 2019, 07:55:27 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.
Do you know how much should be hidden from view?  Yes, there is a horizon, and no, there's no left to right curve visible, as is expected with a high magnification shot on a globe.

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Plat Terra

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #518 on: August 08, 2019, 07:57:44 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.

So you have admitted defeat on where your Sun is? How it sets and rises everyday and determines time, which I assume you follow like the rest of us. And have moved back to your other meme, the Chicago skyline. You claim atmospheric effects on bendy light, shadows cast upward, yet refuse the atmospheric explanations, (which are well documented, your bendy light is not) when it comes to the Chicago skyline. Curious.

And the real question about the Chicago skyline is not "why do we see it", but "why don't we see all of it"?

And you still have the meme wrong, 1802' is not correct. You admitted that, now change it.

So, where is your Sun?

And while you're at it, did you contact the Florida surveyors board to get the geodetic information you were looking for I posted before? You know, the info about measuring curvature and such. Let me know what they have to say when you talk to them.

The 1802' is Correct. I corrected "1802 of curvature blocking the view." 

No, the real question about the Chicago skyline is "why do we see it at all"

You have to now change you Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city.

The fact that most of the City is seen, proves your 3959 mile radius is a hoax and proves Eratosthenes was wrong.

See, you have more problems now. You should have not posted. I like my Avatar.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #519 on: August 08, 2019, 08:00:31 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.
Do you know how much should be hidden from view?  Yes, there is a horizon, and no, there's no left to right curve visible, as is expected with a high magnification shot on a globe.

Then Earth must be cylinder shaped. You can't have it both ways.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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Stash

  • 3832
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #520 on: August 08, 2019, 08:07:12 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.

So you have admitted defeat on where your Sun is? How it sets and rises everyday and determines time, which I assume you follow like the rest of us. And have moved back to your other meme, the Chicago skyline. You claim atmospheric effects on bendy light, shadows cast upward, yet refuse the atmospheric explanations, (which are well documented, your bendy light is not) when it comes to the Chicago skyline. Curious.

And the real question about the Chicago skyline is not "why do we see it", but "why don't we see all of it"?

And you still have the meme wrong, 1802' is not correct. You admitted that, now change it.

So, where is your Sun?

And while you're at it, did you contact the Florida surveyors board to get the geodetic information you were looking for I posted before? You know, the info about measuring curvature and such. Let me know what they have to say when you talk to them.

The 1802' is Correct. I corrected "1802 of curvature blocking the view." 

No, the real question about the Chicago skyline is "why do we see it at all"

You have to now change you Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city.

The fact that most of the City is seen, proves your 3959 mile radius is a hoax and proves Eratosthenes was wrong.

See, you have more problems now. You should have not posted. I like my Avatar.

I can see a portion of the skyline due to atmospheric effects. The actual hidden amount is 1592' excluding refraction. Which you also claim in your observations. And the point is, on a flat earth, why am I not seeing all of it? That's the point, on a flat earth, I should see ALL OF IT!

So, where is your sun right now?

Did you call the Florida Bureau of Surveyors and ask them about their Geodetic curvature measurements? You asked about that specifically. I gave you the specific information. Please contact them and get back to us with your findings.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 08:12:07 PM by Stash »
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

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Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #521 on: August 08, 2019, 08:09:13 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.

So you have admitted defeat on where your Sun is? How it sets and rises everyday and determines time, which I assume you follow like the rest of us. And have moved back to your other meme, the Chicago skyline. You claim atmospheric effects on bendy light, shadows cast upward, yet refuse the atmospheric explanations, (which are well documented, your bendy light is not) when it comes to the Chicago skyline. Curious.

And the real question about the Chicago skyline is not "why do we see it", but "why don't we see all of it"?

And you still have the meme wrong, 1802' is not correct. You admitted that, now change it.

So, where is your Sun?

And while you're at it, did you contact the Florida surveyors board to get the geodetic information you were looking for I posted before? You know, the info about measuring curvature and such. Let me know what they have to say when you talk to them.

The 1802' is Correct. I corrected "1802 of curvature blocking the view." 

No, the real question about the Chicago skyline is "why do we see it at all"

You have to now change you Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city.

The fact that most of the City is seen, proves your 3959 mile radius is a hoax and proves Eratosthenes was wrong.

See, you have more problems now. You should have not posted. I like my Avatar.

I can see a portion of the skyline due to atmospheric effects. The actual hidden amount is 1592' excluding refraction. Which you also claim in your observations. And the point is, on a flat earth, why am I not seeing all of it? That's the point, on a flat earth, I should see ALL OF IT!

So, where is your sun right now?
Eratosthenes was wrong.  No bunny trails for you.

Have a nice evening!
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they canít actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #522 on: August 08, 2019, 08:18:06 PM »
Discussing FE against non-believers, Rule n.1: Never show any evidence of FE, it could be proven wrong. Focus on attacking RE.

Clouds lit from underneath is a good point. But explained easily.


Yes please explain.



What's the location, and what do you think is a logical explanation if Earth isn't curved?
If the earth isn't curved, then the only logical explanation is that the laws of physics that we use every day in countless applications are completely wrong.  That means that you would need to define a whole new set of physical laws from scratch.  Good luck with that.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Stash

  • 3832
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #523 on: August 08, 2019, 08:18:26 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.

So you have admitted defeat on where your Sun is? How it sets and rises everyday and determines time, which I assume you follow like the rest of us. And have moved back to your other meme, the Chicago skyline. You claim atmospheric effects on bendy light, shadows cast upward, yet refuse the atmospheric explanations, (which are well documented, your bendy light is not) when it comes to the Chicago skyline. Curious.

And the real question about the Chicago skyline is not "why do we see it", but "why don't we see all of it"?

And you still have the meme wrong, 1802' is not correct. You admitted that, now change it.

So, where is your Sun?

And while you're at it, did you contact the Florida surveyors board to get the geodetic information you were looking for I posted before? You know, the info about measuring curvature and such. Let me know what they have to say when you talk to them.

The 1802' is Correct. I corrected "1802 of curvature blocking the view." 

No, the real question about the Chicago skyline is "why do we see it at all"

You have to now change you Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city.

The fact that most of the City is seen, proves your 3959 mile radius is a hoax and proves Eratosthenes was wrong.

See, you have more problems now. You should have not posted. I like my Avatar.

I can see a portion of the skyline due to atmospheric effects. The actual hidden amount is 1592' excluding refraction. Which you also claim in your observations. And the point is, on a flat earth, why am I not seeing all of it? That's the point, on a flat earth, I should see ALL OF IT!

So, where is your sun right now?
Eratosthenes was wrong.  No bunny trails for you.

Have a nice evening!

Well done. Yet again, you can't answer the most rudimentary questions and retire. We'll take that as your defeat. When you find your sun, let us know. In the mean time, if you actually represented the FE Community (which you don't) you have overarchingly accepted defeat. And we thank you.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 08:21:06 PM by Stash »
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #524 on: August 08, 2019, 08:56:23 PM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.
Do you know how much should be hidden from view?  Yes, there is a horizon, and no, there's no left to right curve visible, as is expected with a high magnification shot on a globe.

Then Earth must be cylinder shaped. You can't have it both ways.
Are you saying that when zooming in on a curved line, the curve of the line does not appear to lessen?

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Macarios

  • 1896
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #525 on: August 08, 2019, 09:41:47 PM »
If this was caused by curvature it would happen all the time and everywhere.
It can happen wherever and whenever the clouds are at an elevation just above the top of the mountain, there is a long expanse of lower land to the east or west, and clear skies farther away.  There are pictures of the same thing happening at Mt. Shasta, Glacier peak, Mt. Baker, Mt. Hood, Mt. Jefferson, Mt. Mcloughlin, and probably others elsewhere.

Not all the time everywhere.

Ofcourse not.
You need clouds, mountain and clear horizon.

It will never happen in Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt.
There are no high mountains there, and clouds are rare exceptions.

Anyway, you have to have Sun lower than the mountain peak to make it cast shadow higher.
In Flat Earth there is no weather that could possibly do it.
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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rabinoz

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Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #526 on: August 08, 2019, 10:34:57 PM »
So you have admitted defeat on where your Sun is? How it sets and rises everyday and determines time, which I assume you follow like the rest of us. And have moved back to your other meme, the Chicago skyline. You claim atmospheric effects on bendy light, shadows cast upward, yet refuse the atmospheric explanations, (which are well documented, your bendy light is not) when it comes to the Chicago skyline. Curious.

And the real question about the Chicago skyline is not "why do we see it", but "why don't we see all of it"?

And you still have the meme wrong, 1802' is not correct. You admitted that, now change it.

So, where is your Sun?

And while you're at it, did you contact the Florida surveyors board to get the geodetic information you were looking for I posted before? You know, the info about measuring curvature and such. Let me know what they have to say when you talk to them.

The 1802' is Correct. I corrected "1802 of curvature blocking the view." 

No, the real question about the Chicago skyline is "why do we see it at all"

You have to now change you Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city.

The fact that most of the City is seen, proves your 3959 mile radius is a hoax and proves Eratosthenes was wrong.

See, you have more problems now.
Nope! We do not have to "change the Globe Model size of Earth because you see the city" and you haven't proven "Eratosthenes was wrong".

You are still ignoring a few vital points. One important one being the height Joshua Nowicki was above the lake. This might help.
Quote
Flat earth debunk Wikia: Seeing Chicago across Lake Michigan[/color]]Flat earth debunk Wikia: Seeing Chicago across Lake Michigan
Oftentimes, when flat earthers are trying to show that the earth is, in fact flat, they present a specific picture of the Chicago Skyline taken across lake Michigan:



This picture, as shown in the description, was taken 200mm atop a dune in Grand Mere Lakes park, near Stevensville, Mi. The specific dune is not mentioned, but the likely place is shown here:



This location is 735 feet above sea level. Lake Michigan itself is actually 577 feet above lake level[1]. This means the elevation of the actual picture (including the height of the camera above the dune) was 159 feet.

Given the curvature calculation, and the fact that this spot is approximately 55 miles from Chicago, it is expected that only about 1043 feet of this skyline should be obscured by the horizon. This does not take into account atmospheric refraction, which may make more visible. In the picture below, the 4 buildings which, at their pinnacle height, are taller than this have been marked. Though other buildings appear to be visible, none are above the band which shows significant warping due to atmospheric refraction:



[1] Wright, John W., ed. (2006). The New York Times Almanac. Editors and reporters of The New York Times(2007 ed.). New York, New York: Penguin Books. ISBN 0-14-303820-6.
The important points are that:
  • From that camera height of 159 feet from that spot approximately 55 miles from Chicago, it is expected that only about 1043 feet of this skyline should be obscured by the horizon.

    But we usually expect some atmospheric refract and the Metabunk Earth's Curve Horizon, Bulge, Drop, and Hidden Calculator allows for that.
    This "normal" refraction would show that only 839 feet and all it needs to cause a little extra refraction is for the air being cooler near the lake's surface that higher up.

  • The unobscured skyline should be something like this, though it's probably not quite from the same direction.


  • The so-called "mirage" photo would never have made it to the evening news if seeing that much of Chicago was usually seen.
And you might find this entertaining:

Flat Earth Lunacy: The Chicago Skyline Seen From Michigan by The Quagmire


For those interested here is Joshua Nowicki's own video:

Time-lapse: Looking toward Chicago from Michigan by Joshua Nowicki

But if you expect that the "RE Community will Accept Defeat" you are doing a poor job of convincing them - try harder.

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kopfverderber

  • 440
  • Globularist
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #527 on: August 08, 2019, 10:41:24 PM »
It doesn't matter, it's a weather phenomenon.

What a pathetic answer.  You cannot explain it, you have no rational answer, so you close your eyes and dismiss it as a "weather effect". Is that what a "seeker of truth does" ? How pathetic.
You must gather your party before venturing forth

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #528 on: August 09, 2019, 01:11:08 AM »
what do you think is a logical explanation if Earth isn't curved?
That's your problem. The logical explanation (which considers all the other evidence) is that Earth is curved.
The other option is that the sun goes below the clouds, which goes against the modern FE models.

If this was caused by curvature it would happen all the time and everywhere. But this is not the case here. To deem this as actually prove of curvature is intellectual dishonesty.
Light going upwards at sunset does happen everywhere where the sun isn't setting behind mountains.
The weather based part of this is that it needs clouds above, and wont happen in clear skies because then you won't have an object there to be nicely illuminated.
The location based part of this is the mountain which is needed to cast the shadow upwards.

But if you like, you can go to a beach, find a nice vertical wall with a view to the sunrise or sunset, and then place a stick perpendicular to the wall, preferably nice an high.
Then observe the shadow at sunrise and sunset.
You will notice that as the sun rises, the shadow starts out going upwards and then drops down.
At sunset the opposite happens.

In either case, the shadow is upwards when the sun is very low in the sky.

This makes perfect sense for a RE, but is incompatible with the FE model of the sun always above Earth.
Bending of light.
What is causing the light to bend?
Why does it consistently happen at sunrise and sunset?

If it was a weather phenomenon, then the setting of the sun and this upwards light would be far more chaotic, with the sun rising and setting at wildly different times throughout the day, with no simple pattern, and would frequently be visible at night, all over Earth, and sometimes not visible during the day.
Instead, other than some minor variation, it follows quite a predictable pattern, rising and setting as expected for a RE.

there is no proof the Suns light doesn't bend through atmosphere from that far away at sun set.
That isn't a simple explanation, that is appealing to wilful ignorance.
We understand the properties of light, it will bend, downwards.

Are you still going to use MT Rainier as actually proof Earth curves?
Unless you can provide an explanation that is consistent with a FE and physics, yes.

This post is in reply to most arguments above.
You already admitted you were wrong.
Why post the same lie again?

That is not possible on a FE.
If Earth was flat, the lower section of the building should still be clearly visible.
This is only possible on a RE.
The best you can try and argue is that Earth is larger than people claim.

But you ignore 2 key points.
One is refraction.
The value that is hidden which is calculated from Earth's actual radius will be larger than that actually hidden due to curvature.
The other is what you have already admitted, that 1800 archaic units is the drop due to curvature not the amount hidden.
It would only apply if the camera was at sea level, which goes directly against the caption of the video which states that it was taken from atop a dune.

EDIT: the numbers below are wrong as I forget to factor in the elevation of the lake surface (roughly 577 feet). This will significantly increase the amount hidden, but large portions of the city should still be visible.

The dunes go to roughly 800 archaic units.
That means the horizon is sqrt(800*12/8)=35 archaic units away.
That means it is only 17 archaic units from the horizon to Chicago.
That means that only 17*17*8/12=192 archaic units should be hidden of the buildings.

Even being more generous and having the observer at only 500 archaic units, you only get 417 archaic units  hidden.

The top of the buildings is 1451 archaic units.
So that means there is nothing wrong with this photo with a RE.


But like I said, it shouldn't happen on a FE.

And notice there is a horizon
Yes, exactly as you would expect for a RE.
The curve you are trying to see would be mostly hidden by the horizon.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 04:05:14 PM by JackBlack »

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rabinoz

  • 24910
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #529 on: August 09, 2019, 01:37:05 AM »
A weather phenomenon is not evidence Earth has curvature. If this was caused by curvature it would happen all the time and everywhere.
Who claimed that it was "evidence Earth has curvature"?
But it is solid evidence that the sun in not circling overhead as flat earthers seem to claim.
On the real earth the sun appears to be hidden by "something" and to rise up at sunrise like this:
But on the flat earth the sun is supposedly always about 3000 miles above the earth.

There is no way that I can see for the flat earth sun to be low enough to produce the upward slanting shadows from Mt Rainier, from Moana Lua in Hawaii or onto Mt Everest. 

Quote from: Plat Terra
But this is not the case here. To deem this as actually prove of curvature is intellectual dishonesty.
But you seem to be the only one suggesting that it might be due to  curvature.
What's the location, and what do you think is a logical explanation other than Earths is curved?
Thats the shadow of mount Rainier, you have a few more pictures here:

https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/10/the-shadow-of-mount-rainier.html?m=1

As for the question, I was hoping you could answer that.

Quote from: Plat Terra

So, enough of the excuses and deflection.
Explain how that upward slanting shadow could be be produced on your flat earth with the sun circling some 3000 miles above.

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frenat

  • 3497
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #530 on: August 09, 2019, 05:08:16 AM »
This post is in reply to most arguments above.  Arguments that have been addressed here at the FE forum many times but ignored.  Please donít ignore the lights of the city at 52.72 miles away. They should be hidden by bulge of water.  And notice there is a horizon and not a curvizon.



Only if viewing from zero feet. Clearly that is not the case. Why are you ignoring the height of the observer?

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17521
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #531 on: August 09, 2019, 05:19:05 AM »
A weather phenomenon is not evidence Earth has curvature. If this was caused by curvature it would happen all the time and everywhere.
Who claimed that it was "evidence Earth has curvature"?
But it is solid evidence that the sun in not circling overhead as flat earthers seem to claim.
On the real earth the sun appears to be hidden by "something" and to rise up at sunrise like this:
But on the flat earth the sun is supposedly always about 3000 miles above the earth.

Why are you posting what the Round Earth Theory claims is an illusion to show that there is no illusion occuring?

RET says that the Sun is below the horizon in those images. When the sun is at the horizon it is already below it in RE. Those images and what we see is false. Once again you are unable or unwilling to tell us how we can tell the difference between a small illusion and a large one. A rediculous, self contradicting argument.

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rabinoz

  • 24910
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #532 on: August 09, 2019, 05:46:49 AM »
A weather phenomenon is not evidence Earth has curvature. If this was caused by curvature it would happen all the time and everywhere.
Who claimed that it was "evidence Earth has curvature"?
But it is solid evidence that the sun in not circling overhead as flat earthers seem to claim.
On the real earth the sun appears to be hidden by "something" and to rise up at sunrise like this:
But on the flat earth the sun is supposedly always about 3000 miles above the earth.

Why are you posting what the Round Earth Theory claims is an illusion to show that there is no illusion occuring?

RET says that the Sun is below the horizon in those images. When the sun is at the horizon it is already below it in RE. Those images and what we see is false. Once again you are unable or unwilling to tell us how we can tell the difference between a small illusion and a large one. A rediculous, self contradicting argument.
No, the images are not an illusion other than the video seem to show the sun moving and not the earth rotating.

And since they are not an illusion I have no need to "tell the difference between a small illusion and a large one."
Hence your claim is no more than "a rediculous, self-contradicting argument."

And the images are not false because the light if refracted by about half a degree by a known and understood effect.
A camera or telescope relies on far more refraction than that to produce the images we see.

Would you also claim that those images are false because they are the result of refraction?

What about these, where I saw the sun setting myself? Was I seeing false images?

LHG-0693 - Sunset Karumba 20070808 06.25.02, 300 mm
       
LHG-0697 - Sunset Karumba 20070808 06.25.29, 300 mm

I naturally think that the sun is really being hidden behind something, the horizon on the Globe.

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sokarul

  • 16787
  • Discount Chemist
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #533 on: August 09, 2019, 06:02:06 AM »
A weather phenomenon is not evidence Earth has curvature. If this was caused by curvature it would happen all the time and everywhere.
Who claimed that it was "evidence Earth has curvature"?
But it is solid evidence that the sun in not circling overhead as flat earthers seem to claim.
On the real earth the sun appears to be hidden by "something" and to rise up at sunrise like this:
But on the flat earth the sun is supposedly always about 3000 miles above the earth.

Why are you posting what the Round Earth Theory claims is an illusion to show that there is no illusion occuring?

RET says that the Sun is below the horizon in those images. When the sun is at the horizon it is already below it in RE. Those images and what we see is false. Once again you are unable or unwilling to tell us how we can tell the difference between a small illusion and a large one. A rediculous, self contradicting argument.
Sunlight is also 8 minutes old. We just donít care.
Sokarul

ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

Run Sandokhan run

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17521
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #534 on: August 09, 2019, 06:04:19 AM »
Claiming that it's not an illusion because it is a "known and understood effect" is a totally invalid response, clearly lacking of evidence that this effect is occuring, that we can detect this effect, or that we can differentiate between this effect and others.

Once again, a proposal using unmitigated illusions to claim that an illusion is not occuring.

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sokarul

  • 16787
  • Discount Chemist
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #535 on: August 09, 2019, 06:09:27 AM »
Do you ever wonder why the sun appears to move faster at sunset instead of slower as FET would predict?
Sokarul

ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

Run Sandokhan run

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17521
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #536 on: August 09, 2019, 06:34:34 AM »
Do you ever wonder why the sun appears to move faster at sunset instead of slower as FET would predict?

Why should the sun be faster at sunset when the RE predicts that it will lag behind in order to cause the illusions discussed above?

It appears that you have provided evidence against your ball.

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markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 39109
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #537 on: August 09, 2019, 06:49:06 AM »
Claiming that it's not an illusion because it is a "known and understood effect" is a totally invalid response, clearly lacking of evidence that this effect is occuring, that we can detect this effect, or that we can differentiate between this effect and others.

Once again, a proposal using unmitigated illusions to claim that an illusion is not occuring.
Tom, refraction is not an illusion.  It's a physical effect that has been studied for hundreds of years and is well understood.  That's how scientists can confidently claim that the sun near the horizon is about one half degree lower than it appears.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17521
Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #538 on: August 09, 2019, 06:57:05 AM »
Explain how scientists can "confidently" explain that the sun lags behind to appear above the horizon when it is below it, when, as sokarul tells us, the sun moves faster at sunset.

Show us these explanations and how the contradictions are reconciled rather than asserting that "everything is explained".

Perhaps most importantly, explain to us how the ability for someone to fart out an explanation constitutes evidence of occurrence.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 08:15:53 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: When will RE Community Accept Defeat?
« Reply #539 on: August 09, 2019, 08:15:34 AM »
Explain how scientists can "confidently" explain that the sun lags behind to appear above the horizon when it is below it, when, as sokarul tells us, the sun moves faster at sunset.

That isnt what sokarul said. There's a dishonesty to your post which hinders, rather than helps the discussion.