Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive

  • 69 Replies
  • 2912 Views
*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« on: July 20, 2019, 10:47:20 AM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?


The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Macarios

  • 1878
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 03:19:37 PM »
1.
With the Flat assumption you get the whole range of possible altitude of the Sun, from zero to hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
With the Globe assumption you get consistent radius of the Earth for many different distances of the pole from the Equator.
(https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67631.msg1809431#msg1809431)

2.
Around 1000 A.D. Al-Biruni (Abū Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad Al-Bīrūnī, 973-1050 A.D.)
measured the Earth's radius using different method, based on Apparent Horizon Dip from known altitude.

3.
Many organizations, expeditions, government-assigned groups, and the whole Geodesy
measured the Earth up and down, left and right, and the result is always globe.
But you can't draw curved surface on a flat paper without distortion, that's why
for different purposes we have different projections and approximations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 03:47:08 PM by Macarios »
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 05:11:40 PM »
1.
With the Flat assumption you get the whole range of possible altitude of the Sun, from zero to hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
With the Globe assumption you get consistent radius of the Earth for many different distances of the pole from the Equator.
(https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=67631.msg1809431#msg1809431)

2.
Around 1000 A.D. Al-Biruni (Abū Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad Al-Bīrūnī, 973-1050 A.D.)
measured the Earth's radius using different method, based on Apparent Horizon Dip from known altitude.

3.
Many organizations, expeditions, government-assigned groups, and the whole Geodesy
measured the Earth up and down, left and right, and the result is always globe.
But you can't draw curved surface on a flat paper without distortion, that's why
for different purposes we have different projections and approximations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Considering Eratosthenes shadow experiment includes angles, it’s likely a Flat Earth Mathematician has also found  other experiments inconclusive. Verification is very important in science.
Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without his experiment being verified?  Did Eratosthenes verify it himself before millions believed or did they just follow blindly?

So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

Please don't ignore the important issue of verification and these question.  Have you verified the surface curvature of just one landmass or canal? If not, why? By doing so I would yield to the simple facts.

Where can I find documentation stating "The surface curvature of Florida has been verified to have X amount of curvature" or just any canal?

Round Earthers can measure a band of helium but can't measure and verify curvature. Amazing to see!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 05:34:40 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

EvolvedMantisShrimp

  • 901
  • Physical Comedian
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 05:33:50 PM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?




When you take into account that the Sun cannot possibly be close enough for the former model the latter model must be correct.
Nullius in Verba

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 05:37:22 PM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?




When you take into account that the Sun cannot possibly be close enough for the former model the latter model must be correct.

Why? Please explain. And Have you verified the surface curvature of just one landmass or canal? If not, why?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

  • 3689
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2019, 06:01:46 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

*

EvolvedMantisShrimp

  • 901
  • Physical Comedian
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2019, 06:03:09 PM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?




When you take into account that the Sun cannot possibly be close enough for the former model the latter model must be correct.

Why? Please explain. And Have you verified the surface curvature of just one landmass or canal? If not, why?

Because the Sun doesn't shrink or grow as the day progresses. See, in order for the results of Eratosthenes' shadow experiment to occur on a flat Earth, the sun must be relatively close. Most Flat Earthers claim it is 4000 miles or closer. But if that were true, then the distance between an observer and the Sun would change radically through the course of a day as the Sun rises, passes close to overhead and then eventually sets. The Sun would grow as it approaches and shrink as it departs. That is just one reason why the Sun must be much further away. Far enough away where the light from the Sun is nearly parallel across the surface of the planet.
Nullius in Verba

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2019, 06:15:05 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.

Please allow me to be clearer. It's not about the "Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes'" it's about verifying Earth is round as he states with a 3959 mile radius. Why, because his experiment can also be used to determine a flat Earth.   

Any Round Earther can measure the length and width of a landmass. That's nothing by today's standards, but they are incapable of measuring the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal.  Why? Prove me wrong. What is the actually verified surface curvature measured over Florida? Link please!
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

  • 3689
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2019, 06:19:04 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.

Please allow me to be clearer. It's not about the "Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes'" it's about verifying Earth is round as he states with a 3959 mile radius. Why, because his experiment can also be used to determine a flat Earth.   

Any Round Earther can measure the length and width of a landmass. That's nothing by today's standards, but they are incapable of measuring the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal.  Why? Prove me wrong. What is the actually verified surface curvature measured over Florida? Link please!

What is the actually verified surface flatness measured over Florida? Link please!
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2019, 06:25:43 PM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?




When you take into account that the Sun cannot possibly be close enough for the former model the latter model must be correct.

Why? Please explain. And Have you verified the surface curvature of just one landmass or canal? If not, why?

Because the Sun doesn't shrink or grow as the day progresses. See, in order for the results of Eratosthenes' shadow experiment to occur on a flat Earth, the sun must be relatively close. Most Flat Earthers claim it is 4000 miles or closer. But if that were true, then the distance between an observer and the Sun would change radically through the course of a day as the Sun rises, passes close to overhead and then eventually sets. The Sun would grow as it approaches and shrink as it departs. That is just one reason why the Sun must be much further away. Far enough away where the light from the Sun is nearly parallel across the surface of the planet.

Your adding another issue here. The experiment can only happen when the sun is over head at solar noon. That instant. Movement has nothing to do with this issue of the sun at that moment in time. The sun can be at any height and size and have the same results. You can get the same angles on a football field with 1 stadium light.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2019, 06:28:48 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.

Please allow me to be clearer. It's not about the "Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes'" it's about verifying Earth is round as he states with a 3959 mile radius. Why, because his experiment can also be used to determine a flat Earth.   

Any Round Earther can measure the length and width of a landmass. That's nothing by today's standards, but they are incapable of measuring the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal.  Why? Prove me wrong. What is the actually verified surface curvature measured over Florida? Link please!

What is the actually verified surface flatness measured over Florida? Link please!

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without his experiment being verified?  Did Eratosthenes verify it himself before millions believed or did they just follow blindly?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

EvolvedMantisShrimp

  • 901
  • Physical Comedian
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2019, 06:30:51 PM »
Your adding another issue here. The experiment can only happen when the sun is over head at solar noon. That instant.
Why is that? It's still just basic trigonometry no matter what time of day it is.

Movement has nothing to do with this issue of the sun at that moment in time. The sun can be at any height and size and have the same results. You can get the same angles on a football field with 1 stadium light.
The point isn't the motion. The point is that the Sun is very far away. Further than it could possibly be and get Eratosthenes' results on a flat Earth.
Nullius in Verba

*

rabinoz

  • 24206
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2019, 06:32:17 PM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?


OK, you repeat Eratosthenes calculations for the distance and angle he found.

Quote from: The Flat Earth Society Wiki
Eratosthenes on Distance of the Sun
Eratosthenes' stick experiment can not only tell us about the size of the earth, but can also be used to compute the distance to the sun as well.

In his experiment, Eratosthenes assumes that the earth is a globe and that the sun is very far away in his computations for the size of the earth and the distance to the sun. However, if we use his data with the assumption that the earth is flat we can come up with a wildly different calculation for the distance of the sun, showing it to be close to the earth. The sun changes its distance depending on the model of the earth we assume for the experiment.
Eratosthenes noted that the sun was overhead in Cyene (modern Aswan) but cast a shadow at an angle of one-fiftieth part of a circle (or 7.2°) at Alexandria, 800 km North, the modern value.
Using these values the sun's height above the earth comes out to 800/tan(7.2°) or 6333 km (3936 miles).

But flat earthers us all claim that the sun is 5000 km (a "bit over" 3000 miles). That's quite a difference, so which is it?

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2019, 06:53:10 PM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?


OK, you repeat Eratosthenes calculations for the distance and angle he found.

Quote from: The Flat Earth Society Wiki
Eratosthenes on Distance of the Sun
Eratosthenes' stick experiment can not only tell us about the size of the earth, but can also be used to compute the distance to the sun as well.

In his experiment, Eratosthenes assumes that the earth is a globe and that the sun is very far away in his computations for the size of the earth and the distance to the sun. However, if we use his data with the assumption that the earth is flat we can come up with a wildly different calculation for the distance of the sun, showing it to be close to the earth. The sun changes its distance depending on the model of the earth we assume for the experiment.
Eratosthenes noted that the sun was overhead in Cyene (modern Aswan) but cast a shadow at an angle of one-fiftieth part of a circle (or 7.2°) at Alexandria, 800 km North, the modern value.
Using these values the sun's height above the earth comes out to 800/tan(7.2°) or 6333 km (3936 miles).

But flat earthers us all claim that the sun is 5000 km (a "bit over" 3000 miles). That's quite a difference, so which is it?


That's interesting but has nothing to do with this important issue of "Verification" of Earth's surface curvature or lack there of. I do have thoughts on it, but for another day.

Are you capable of verifying the alleged curvature of the south half of Louisiana? You now, the part of the state that's prone to mass flooding?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 07:21:30 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

  • 3689
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2019, 06:55:13 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.

Please allow me to be clearer. It's not about the "Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes'" it's about verifying Earth is round as he states with a 3959 mile radius. Why, because his experiment can also be used to determine a flat Earth.   

Any Round Earther can measure the length and width of a landmass. That's nothing by today's standards, but they are incapable of measuring the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal.  Why? Prove me wrong. What is the actually verified surface curvature measured over Florida? Link please!

What is the actually verified surface flatness measured over Florida? Link please!

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without his experiment being verified?  Did Eratosthenes verify it himself before millions believed or did they just follow blindly?

What's your point here? The Eratosthenes experiment has been done millions of times.

You're told to not put metal in a microwave. Do millions of people verify this warning by purposefully throwing metal in a microwave or do they follow blindly and abstain from doing so?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

*

Stash

  • 3689
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2019, 06:57:22 PM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?


OK, you repeat Eratosthenes calculations for the distance and angle he found.

Quote from: The Flat Earth Society Wiki
Eratosthenes on Distance of the Sun
Eratosthenes' stick experiment can not only tell us about the size of the earth, but can also be used to compute the distance to the sun as well.

In his experiment, Eratosthenes assumes that the earth is a globe and that the sun is very far away in his computations for the size of the earth and the distance to the sun. However, if we use his data with the assumption that the earth is flat we can come up with a wildly different calculation for the distance of the sun, showing it to be close to the earth. The sun changes its distance depending on the model of the earth we assume for the experiment.
Eratosthenes noted that the sun was overhead in Cyene (modern Aswan) but cast a shadow at an angle of one-fiftieth part of a circle (or 7.2°) at Alexandria, 800 km North, the modern value.
Using these values the sun's height above the earth comes out to 800/tan(7.2°) or 6333 km (3936 miles).

But flat earthers us all claim that the sun is 5000 km (a "bit over" 3000 miles). That's quite a difference, so which is it?


That's interesting but has nothing to do with this important issue of "Verification" of Earth's surface curvature or lack there of. I do have thoughts on it, but for another day.

Are you capable of verifying the alleged curvature of south Louisiana? You now, the part of the state that's prone to mass flooding?

I don't live there so no, I can't drag a total station out into the bayou and start surveying.

Are you capable of verifying the alleged flatness of south Louisiana?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2019, 07:16:30 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.

Please allow me to be clearer. It's not about the "Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes'" it's about verifying Earth is round as he states with a 3959 mile radius. Why, because his experiment can also be used to determine a flat Earth.   

Any Round Earther can measure the length and width of a landmass. That's nothing by today's standards, but they are incapable of measuring the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal.  Why? Prove me wrong. What is the actually verified surface curvature measured over Florida? Link please!

What is the actually verified surface flatness measured over Florida? Link please!

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without his experiment being verified?  Did Eratosthenes verify it himself before millions believed or did they just follow blindly?

What's your point here? The Eratosthenes experiment has been done millions of times.

You're told to not put metal in a microwave. Do millions of people verify this warning by purposefully throwing metal in a microwave or do they follow blindly and abstain from doing so?

Please allow me to be clearer.

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without anyone verifying the conclusion of his said inconclusive experiment? 
 
Or did someone say "Hip hip hooray for Eratosthenes, he was right; I measured the landmass of said place or canal and it does in fact conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius"?

Did Eratosthenes verify his conclusion himself or did someone else, before millions believed or did they just follow blindly without anyone verifying a 3959 mile radius?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 07:18:43 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

  • 3689
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2019, 07:20:47 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.

Please allow me to be clearer. It's not about the "Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes'" it's about verifying Earth is round as he states with a 3959 mile radius. Why, because his experiment can also be used to determine a flat Earth.   

Any Round Earther can measure the length and width of a landmass. That's nothing by today's standards, but they are incapable of measuring the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal.  Why? Prove me wrong. What is the actually verified surface curvature measured over Florida? Link please!

What is the actually verified surface flatness measured over Florida? Link please!

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without his experiment being verified?  Did Eratosthenes verify it himself before millions believed or did they just follow blindly?

What's your point here? The Eratosthenes experiment has been done millions of times.

You're told to not put metal in a microwave. Do millions of people verify this warning by purposefully throwing metal in a microwave or do they follow blindly and abstain from doing so?

Please allow me to be clearer.

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without anyone verifying the conclusion of his said inconclusive experiment? 
 
Or did someone say "Hip hip hooray for Eratosthenes, he was right; I measured the landmass of said place or canal and it does in fact conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius"? Moray

Did Eratosthenes verify his conclusion himself or did someone else, before millions believed or did they just follow blindly without any proof of a 3959 mile radius?

How should know, I wasn't there 2000 years ago. So your question is strange and irrelevant. The experiment has been done millions of times. And fastforward throughout the ages and we've come up with better and better ways to make such a measurement.
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2019, 07:23:09 PM »
So, again after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment  (and other experiments performed by others ) by actually verifying that Earths’surface of individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?

I don't know about measuring land masses and canals other than that's a lot of what Geodesy is about, you should read up on it.

As for Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes', there's sort of an 'Eratosthenes Day' where teachers and students from around the world, for years, have performing and logging and sharing their results of the experiment:

https://eratosthenes.ea.gr/

Check it out. 2019 registration is closed, but maybe you could get your teacher to sign up your class for 2020.

Please allow me to be clearer. It's not about the "Globe Earth community people performing experiments like Eratosthenes'" it's about verifying Earth is round as he states with a 3959 mile radius. Why, because his experiment can also be used to determine a flat Earth.   

Any Round Earther can measure the length and width of a landmass. That's nothing by today's standards, but they are incapable of measuring the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal.  Why? Prove me wrong. What is the actually verified surface curvature measured over Florida? Link please!

What is the actually verified surface flatness measured over Florida? Link please!

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without his experiment being verified?  Did Eratosthenes verify it himself before millions believed or did they just follow blindly?

What's your point here? The Eratosthenes experiment has been done millions of times.

You're told to not put metal in a microwave. Do millions of people verify this warning by purposefully throwing metal in a microwave or do they follow blindly and abstain from doing so?

Please allow me to be clearer.

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without anyone verifying the conclusion of his said inconclusive experiment? 
 
Or did someone say "Hip hip hooray for Eratosthenes, he was right; I measured the landmass of said place or canal and it does in fact conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius"? Moray

Did Eratosthenes verify his conclusion himself or did someone else, before millions believed or did they just follow blindly without any proof of a 3959 mile radius?

How should know, I wasn't there 2000 years ago. So your question is strange and irrelevant. The experiment has been done millions of times. And fastforward throughout the ages and we've come up with better and better ways to make such a measurement.

Has anyone today?
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2019, 07:35:52 PM »
Ugh
Like stash has said several times its a needless experiment.
The estimated radius was improved upon many times through tighter and tighter measurement and experimentation.
We have gps.
We have google maps.
We have municipal surveyors building roads.
We have loads of other things going on.

What are you on about?

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2019, 07:39:34 PM »
Can a anyone here calculate how high the south plateau of Florida would be above the water on a Globe Earth (3959 mile radius) if the entire surface of Florida was mostly horizontal? I am not a Mathematician but I sure would like to know. Just use the same elevations of Florida from current elevation maps..
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 07:57:31 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2019, 07:44:37 PM »
Ugh
Like stash has said several times its a needless experiment.
The estimated radius was improved upon many times through tighter and tighter measurement and experimentation.
We have gps.
We have google maps.
We have municipal surveyors building roads.
We have loads of other things going on.

What are you on about?

None of what you posted verifies curvature. So in other words, actually verifying the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal is not important to prove to a Flat Earther, Earth has curvature? And yet you believe it's curved without you seeing the verification.  Wow!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 07:50:17 PM by Plat Terra »
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

Stash

  • 3689
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2019, 07:59:44 PM »
Ugh
Like stash has said several times its a needless experiment.
The estimated radius was improved upon many times through tighter and tighter measurement and experimentation.
We have gps.
We have google maps.
We have municipal surveyors building roads.
We have loads of other things going on.

What are you on about?

None of what you posted verifies curvature. So in other words, actually verifying the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal is not important to prove to a Flat Earther, Earth has curvature? And yet you believe it's curved without you seeing the verification.  Wow!

You’re not very good at this. Have you ever been on a plane? Perhaps a flight greater than a couple thousand miles?
No. That sudden lurch forwards is the atmospheric slosh effect.

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2019, 08:05:31 PM »
Ugh
Like stash has said several times its a needless experiment.
The estimated radius was improved upon many times through tighter and tighter measurement and experimentation.
We have gps.
We have google maps.
We have municipal surveyors building roads.
We have loads of other things going on.

What are you on about?

None of what you posted verifies curvature. So in other words, actually verifying the alleged curvature of any landmass or canal is not important to prove to a Flat Earther, Earth has curvature? And yet you believe it's curved without you seeing the verification.  Wow!

You’re not very good at this. Have you ever been on a plane? Perhaps a flight greater than a couple thousand miles?


I'v flown over the Great Curved States. And there was a lit of dipping going on not to fly off into space. That was prove of curvature there.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

rabinoz

  • 24206
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2019, 08:09:37 PM »
Please allow me to be clearer.

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without anyone verifying the conclusion of his said inconclusive experiment? 
No, because many other did the same or similar measurements. Here is a copy of an earlier post about measurements done in the during the first millenium AD in Arabia, Persia and India.

Here is some extracts from modern Islamic sites about some early Muslims astronomers/scientists :
Quote from: Islam Wiki
Geography and cartography in medieval Islam
Mathematical geography and geodesy
Around 830, Caliph al-Ma'mun commissioned a group of astronomers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to al-Raqqah, in modern Syria. They found the cities to be separated by one degree of latitude and the distance between them to be 66 2/3 miles and thus calculated the Earth's circumference to be 24,000 miles (39,000 km).[35] Another estimate given was 56 2/3 Arabic miles per degree, which corresponds to 111.8 km per degree and a circumference of 40,248 km, very close to the currently modern values of 111.3 km per degree and 40,068 km circumference, respectively

The title of this little extract from the Muslim Times shows how modern Muslims regard Al-Biruni:
Quote from: ZIA H SHAH
Al Biruni: One of the Greatest Pioneers of Science
The early Muslims duplicated the technique of Eratosthenes, to measure the circumference of the earth, 200 years before Al Biruni. But, that technique had a basic flaw. Al Biruni came up with a better idea, to measure the circumference of the earth, based on trigonometry.

The Empire of Reason, by  Islamic Golden Age


An illustration from Biruni’s Persian book. It shows different phases of the moon.
Here is more on Al-Biruni's Measuring the earth's radius 1000 years ago.

Quote from: Plat Terra
Or did someone say "Hip hip hooray for Eratosthenes, he was right; I measured the landmass of said place or canal and it does in fact conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius"?
No, because Eratosthenes never knew a very accurate distance between Alexandria and Cyene.
Being the chief librarian in the Great Library of Alexandria (now called the Bibliotheca Alexandrina) he had a bit of influence so hired a pacer to pace out the distance in podes and expressed to final distance in stadia, where one stadion was 600 podes.

The trouble is that there was no "Department of Weights and Measure" so these units are a bit hard to currently define accurately.
He could measure angles quite well simply by comparing the shadow length with the obelisk (stick of whatever) height and expressed that as one-fiftieth part of a circle.

The 800 km is simply the modern distance. Another point is that Alexandria, at 31.20° N, 29.92° E, is not exactly north of Cyene (Aswan), at 24.09° N, 32.90° E.
This is not of great importance as long as the observations were done at solar noon (the shortest shadow) in each case.

Quote from: Plat Terra
Did Eratosthenes verify his conclusion himself or did someone else, before millions believed or did they just follow blindly without anyone verifying a 3959 mile radius?
Answered above but you really should learn a bit about existing measurements before posting things like this.

*

Plat Terra

  • 1121
  • I am a Neutral Flat Earther
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2019, 08:29:47 PM »
Please allow me to be clearer.

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without anyone verifying the conclusion of his said inconclusive experiment? 
No, because many other did the same or similar measurements. Here is a copy of an earlier post about measurements done in the during the first millenium AD in Arabia, Persia and India.

Here is some extracts from modern Islamic sites about some early Muslims astronomers/scientists :
Quote from: Islam Wiki
Geography and cartography in medieval Islam
Mathematical geography and geodesy
Around 830, Caliph al-Ma'mun commissioned a group of astronomers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to al-Raqqah, in modern Syria. They found the cities to be separated by one degree of latitude and the distance between them to be 66 2/3 miles and thus calculated the Earth's circumference to be 24,000 miles (39,000 km).[35] Another estimate given was 56 2/3 Arabic miles per degree, which corresponds to 111.8 km per degree and a circumference of 40,248 km, very close to the currently modern values of 111.3 km per degree and 40,068 km circumference, respectively

The title of this little extract from the Muslim Times shows how modern Muslims regard Al-Biruni:
Quote from: ZIA H SHAH
Al Biruni: One of the Greatest Pioneers of Science
The early Muslims duplicated the technique of Eratosthenes, to measure the circumference of the earth, 200 years before Al Biruni. But, that technique had a basic flaw. Al Biruni came up with a better idea, to measure the circumference of the earth, based on trigonometry.

The Empire of Reason, by  Islamic Golden Age


An illustration from Biruni’s Persian book. It shows different phases of the moon.
Here is more on Al-Biruni's Measuring the earth's radius 1000 years ago.

Quote from: Plat Terra
Or did someone say "Hip hip hooray for Eratosthenes, he was right; I measured the landmass of said place or canal and it does in fact conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius"?
No, because Eratosthenes never knew a very accurate distance between Alexandria and Cyene.
Being the chief librarian in the Great Library of Alexandria (now called the Bibliotheca Alexandrina) he had a bit of influence so hired a pacer to pace out the distance in podes and expressed to final distance in stadia, where one stadion was 600 podes.

The trouble is that there was no "Department of Weights and Measure" so these units are a bit hard to currently define accurately.
He could measure angles quite well simply by comparing the shadow length with the obelisk (stick of whatever) height and expressed that as one-fiftieth part of a circle.

The 800 km is simply the modern distance. Another point is that Alexandria, at 31.20° N, 29.92° E, is not exactly north of Cyene (Aswan), at 24.09° N, 32.90° E.
This is not of great importance as long as the observations were done at solar noon (the shortest shadow) in each case.

Quote from: Plat Terra
Did Eratosthenes verify his conclusion himself or did someone else, before millions believed or did they just follow blindly without anyone verifying a 3959 mile radius?
Answered above but you really should learn a bit about existing measurements before posting things like this.

Who has verified that the surface of any landmass or canal has the curvature as dictated by a 3959 mile radius?

Just one.

Simple question. What is the name and landmass.

Just one.
The Globe community is incapable of verifying Earth has the curvature calculated through experiment or claimed by anyone. They can measure a band of helium but they can’t actually measure and verify the dictated curvature of any landmass or canal. Why not?

*

rabinoz

  • 24206
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2019, 09:18:20 PM »
Please allow me to be clearer.

Am I to believe millions of people who followed and believed Eratosthenes did so without anyone verifying the conclusion of his said inconclusive experiment? 
No, because many other did the same or similar measurements. Here is a copy of an earlier post about measurements done in the during the first millenium AD in Arabia, Persia and India.

Here is some extracts from modern Islamic sites about some early Muslims astronomers/scientists :
Quote from: Islam Wiki
Geography and cartography in medieval Islam
Mathematical geography and geodesy
Around 830, Caliph al-Ma'mun commissioned a group of astronomers to measure the distance from Tadmur (Palmyra) to al-Raqqah, in modern Syria. They found the cities to be separated by one degree of latitude and the distance between them to be 66 2/3 miles and thus calculated the Earth's circumference to be 24,000 miles (39,000 km).[35] Another estimate given was 56 2/3 Arabic miles per degree, which corresponds to 111.8 km per degree and a circumference of 40,248 km, very close to the currently modern values of 111.3 km per degree and 40,068 km circumference, respectively

The title of this little extract from the Muslim Times shows how modern Muslims regard Al-Biruni:
Quote from: ZIA H SHAH
Al Biruni: One of the Greatest Pioneers of Science
The early Muslims duplicated the technique of Eratosthenes, to measure the circumference of the earth, 200 years before Al Biruni. But, that technique had a basic flaw. Al Biruni came up with a better idea, to measure the circumference of the earth, based on trigonometry.

The Empire of Reason, by  Islamic Golden Age


An illustration from Biruni’s Persian book. It shows different phases of the moon.
Here is more on Al-Biruni's Measuring the earth's radius 1000 years ago.

Quote from: Plat Terra
Or did someone say "Hip hip hooray for Eratosthenes, he was right; I measured the landmass of said place or canal and it does in fact conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius"?
No, because Eratosthenes never knew a very accurate distance between Alexandria and Cyene.
Being the chief librarian in the Great Library of Alexandria (now called the Bibliotheca Alexandrina) he had a bit of influence so hired a pacer to pace out the distance in podes and expressed to final distance in stadia, where one stadion was 600 podes.

The trouble is that there was no "Department of Weights and Measure" so these units are a bit hard to currently define accurately.
He could measure angles quite well simply by comparing the shadow length with the obelisk (stick of whatever) height and expressed that as one-fiftieth part of a circle.

The 800 km is simply the modern distance. Another point is that Alexandria, at 31.20° N, 29.92° E, is not exactly north of Cyene (Aswan), at 24.09° N, 32.90° E.
This is not of great importance as long as the observations were done at solar noon (the shortest shadow) in each case.

Quote from: Plat Terra
Did Eratosthenes verify his conclusion himself or did someone else, before millions believed or did they just follow blindly without anyone verifying a 3959 mile radius?
Answered above but you really should learn a bit about existing measurements before posting things like this.

Who has verified that the surface of any landmass or canal has the curvature as dictated by a 3959 mile radius?

Just one.

Simple question. What is the name and landmass.

Just one.
The topic is "Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive" and I answered thst.
How about sorting out Eratosthenes before going fishing?

*

rabinoz

  • 24206
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2019, 10:24:08 PM »

Who has verified that the surface of any landmass or canal has the curvature as dictated by a 3959 mile radius?

Just one.

Simple question. What is the name and landmass.

Just one.
Can you suggest a method?

Repeating Eratosthenes type measurements but with far more accurate angle measurement effectively does what you ask.
And it might be better done with a star near the zenith and it does not need to be over the equator as long as one more measurement is taken.

Of course all these have been done numerous times but flat earthers just assume everybody's been lying to them so take no notice.
Though none of these have been aimed at proving the earth flat simply because all those looking into these things saw that no other shape fitted their observations.

The rest of this is sort of rambling - ignore if you like.

Most of the earth's surface has been accurately mapped for a few centuries.
The positions of the continents were initially determined using what amounts to celestial fixes though with far more stars used the for navigation at sea.
Now these have been refined to a precision down to centimetres and these measurements still just refine the older positions.

The dimensions of countries have been measured using the old fashioned surveyors methods of triangulation from measured baselines. Then from around the 1950s Electronic Distance Measuring devices (eg Tellurometer) were used.

Now these do assume a Globe, uniformly rotating earth and distant stars at known locations but the results could not be consistent with any known flat earth cosmology.

Finally few seem to doubt that the distance from the North Pole to the Equator is almost exactly 10,000,000 metres - that was how the metre was defined.
But in addition the circumference of the equator is just a little over 4 × 10,000,0000 m or 40,000 km.
This is not too hard to measure if one assumes that at the equinox the sun covers 15° of longitude each hour or 1° each 4 minutes.
So surveyors measure the distance to cover this for the sun's angle to change 1° and work from there - not exactly the thing an amateur could do accurately.

But those measurements cannot fit the usual flat earth map.

In the end, all these things from astronomy, surveying and even physics tie in together.

*

Macarios

  • 1878
Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2019, 12:16:50 AM »
The phrase "question everything" does not mean "question only globe".

How many Flat Earthers follow Rowbotham's "Earth Not a Globe" without a pinch of questioning? :)
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

Re: Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment Is Inconclusive
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2019, 01:05:03 AM »
The results of Eratosthenes Shadow Experiment are inconclusive because the experiment can also be interpreted under a Flat Earth model as well.

So after all these years,  who in the Globe Earth community has verified Eratosthenes’ experiment by actually verifying that Earths’ individual landmass’s and canals conform, calculate, measure to a sphere with a 3959 mile radius?  What's his name and history?



Much has been written about Eratosthenes and his early attempt to shed some light on the shape of our planet, though picking it apart while bending the laws of physics do appear to be a rather pointless task.

I have often mentioned that flat earth believers rather than conducting their own focused research or experiments to prove their position, go out their way to pick apart and in most cases distort aspects of main stream science in an attempt to prove a point. This is just another attempt.

When confronted with simple cast iron proof such as the conspiracy free fact that the moon when viewed from Australia is upside down when compared to how it looks when viewed from the Uk send flat earthers into a spin to try and explain in.......while at the same time ignoring the ever expanding elephant in the room of the global space industry. Let’s also not forget the numerous astronomical telescopes all over the globe that confirm and reinforce the picture of the solar system that flat earthers blindly shut their eyes to, possibly fearing the truth.

The problem for flat earthers that there are no experiments that could be carried out to prove the earth was flat and certainly no experiments to show it was an infinite plane. If there were there would be no having to scrape around pulling apart an experiment from over 2000 years ago.